The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

Does Sam play some in this last E_Game? Seems the more live reps the better...

[mistertim]

JT likes what he saw.

 

 

[kingdaddy]

56 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Does Sam play some in this last E_Game? Seems the more live reps the better...

I don't think so based on what I've read and especially after seeing Terry get dinged up. We open at home with Arizona, possibly the worst team in the league. Sam should be ready to roll week one without playing this week but who really knows without RR saying one way or another?

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

JT likes what he saw.

 

 

I watched this earlier on YouTube. Very positive overall. 
 

But one thing he pointed out was something I pointed out in the game thread - Sam has struggled a bit with hot reads. I’d expect teams to test him with blitzes often and early until he/we prove we can beat them.

 

[mistertim]

38 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I watched this earlier on YouTube. Very positive overall. 
 

But one thing he pointed out was something I pointed out in the game thread - Sam has struggled a bit with hot reads. I’d expect teams to test him with blitzes often and early until he/we prove we can beat them.

 

 

Yeah I think that was a really good point as well. Hopefully it's something that will come with more study and experience.

 

Another thing I found a little concerning, though this isn't necessarily a direct indictment on Howell, is how many of those plays were contingent on the OL holding up very well in pass pro. JT pointed that out several times and he's right. I have a feeling it's going to be pretty rare for Howell to have as much time as he did in this game, so he's going to have to work on getting the ball out faster.

[FootballZombie]

55 minutes ago, MartinC said:

But one thing he pointed out was something I pointed out in the game thread - Sam has struggled a bit with hot reads. I’d expect teams to test him with blitzes often and early until he/we prove we can beat them.

 

It wasn't even a struggle so to say from my perspective.

 

Once he realized the level of blocking he was getting, he just stop seeming to care about getting the ball out quick. Sam didn't really need to throw hot reads when he regularly was given enough time to balance the checkbook. He was more than happy to wait back there, see what happens and then pick apart the remainder, and it did not seem to matter how many rushers were sent, Howell's methodology didn't change. Just pure on the fly blind faith in his oline

 

That is not a big issue at all in a situation where you have the great wall of China in front of you like he had, but it will be in the regular season if he tries to do this as the Oline will not be so accommodating.

 

In the first PS game, Howell had to make quick decisions. He had to throw quick hitters, throw balls away or run, just to survive.

In the second... not so much. He could do whatever he wanted without consequence. I've said more than once that even tho the end results of both are good, I actually liked his first game more as a result.

[HigSkin]

The local media were reporting last week when they got back to Ashburn they were running a lot of "get the ball out quick" plays so it must be something they are working on with Sam.  

 

From last week.

 

 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Here’s a wild thought. Sam will hold the ball longer on the plays when the protection is good (waiting for his guys to get open down the field) and he will throw the ball quicker when the protection breaks down or is not as good or when the play is designed for him to do so. 

 

[FootballZombie]

7 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

and he will throw the ball quicker when the protection breaks down or is not as good or when the play is designed for him to do so. 

 

 

 

So he will throw the ball quickly every play.

I agree that is what will need to happen

 

[zCommander]

Sam Howell COMPLETE Preseason Highlights 2023-24

 

[skinsfan66]

9 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Here’s a wild thought. Sam will hold the ball longer on the plays when the protection is good (waiting for his guys to get open down the field) and he will throw the ball quicker when the protection breaks down or is not as good or when the play is designed for him to do so. 

 

Was thinking the same thing, He held it longer when he had time and the OL did provide some time and the blitz was picked up. They seem to be working on picking up the blitz. The blitz has been a big problem for coaches before EB even when we had better lines. Hard to ignore all the blame and injuries to the QB's over the years. 

[NoCalMike]

I think that until the O-line can be consistently good in pass protection, a big factor in Sam's success for this season is going to depend on off script plays, and to be honest what he's shown in the preseason gives me some hope about his ability to make plays when plays break down.   I agree about the hot read/blitz issues, but I think that is an aspect of a QB's game that comes over time because throwing that hot read definitely involves trust between players and that is something that has to be developed.  You can see the throws he makes to Dyami, it feels like they already have that trust due to being teammates in college and having put in work together for a good amount of time already.

 

Howell is likely going to be scrambling around outside the pocket more than we want this season, but what I like about Howell is not just his mobility, but his ability to throw lasers downfield while running.  He's thrown passes to Cole Turner and Dotson while under duress and on the run that are key elements to breaking the back of defenses in the modern era. 

[wit33]

14 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I think that was a really good point as well. Hopefully it's something that will come with more study and experience.

 

Another thing I found a little concerning, though this isn't necessarily a direct indictment on Howell, is how many of those plays were contingent on the OL holding up very well in pass pro. JT pointed that out several times and he's right. I have a feeling it's going to be pretty rare for Howell to have as much time as he did in this game, so he's going to have to work on getting the ball out faster.

Longer routes are a staple in EBs offense (3 pointers), but he has a plan to help the Oline in the situations with “chip and gos” (this my made up language lol) on one side or both sides of the line, allowing your elite 1 and 2 WRs Mcclaurin and Dotson to threaten teams deep. JT missed that EB employed a 7 man protection (2 chip and gos) on the 3rd and 15 throw. 
 

 

It’s bad offensive football for most part if you leave your Oline on its own to protect in a 3rd and long situation. The probabilities decrease dramatically in 3rd and longs (as we all know), but potential ways to increase probablities is being creative in how you employ protections. 
 

Creativity in using 6 and 7 blockers also provides more alley ways for the QB to create, extend and play backyard football. I imagine the great backyard QBs know based on protection where an alley will present itself to get play to 4 and 5 seconds, leaving the defense scrambling, increasing the probabilities of the offense. 
 

3 pointers and layups.
 

2 hours ago, skinsfan66 said:

Was thinking the same thing, He held it longer when he had time and the OL did provide some time and the blitz was picked up. They seem to be working on picking up the blitz. The blitz has been a big problem for coaches before EB even when we had better lines. Hard to ignore all the blame and injuries to the QB's over the years. 

Big time QBs situationally hold onto the ball longer. The average to above have similar internal clocks no matter the situation. 
 

Howell has “baller” inclinations depending on the situation. Reps will provide experience and context to find the balance, which will never fully be solved. Mahomes for rest of his football life will have plays where he “holds onto the ball too long”. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Randy Mueller (former GM now writing on the Athletic) finally sees something in Sam Howell. He's changed his tune as to whether Howell has a future or not. His rankings of young QB's:

 

Not unreasonable given he states a lot more unknown with Howell due to lack of regular season action. From the wording from Mueller, it sounds like as Howell proves he can do it in the regular season, he'd climb up the rankings. Mueller is playing it safe for now, but if all the guys continue to play as he thinks they will, then he'd jump Howell to #3. That's me sort of reading between the lines.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Randy Mueller (former GM now writing on the Athletic) finally sees something in Sam Howell. He's changed his tune as to whether Howell has a future or not. His rankings of young QB's:

 

Not unreasonable given he states a lot more unknown with Howell due to lack of regular season action. From the wording from Mueller, it sounds like as Howell proves he can do it in the regular season, he'd climb up the rankings. Mueller is playing it safe for now, but if all the guys continue to play as he thinks they will, then he'd jump Howell to #3. That's me sort of reading between the lines.

 

Yeah Mueller is a big Pickett guy.  I heard him on Sheehan's complementing Howell so he's coming around a bit on him.

 

Speaking of coming around.  @wit33 was asking about when will Cooley get to watching Howell.  So he did.

 

He liked what he saw.  The odd thing though about him on the podcast was he explained more of what he thinks Howell's weaknesses are than his strengths.  But on the aggregate he was impressed.

 

As for weaknesess.  He thinks he bounces a bit too much in the pocket.  He thinks he holds on to the ball a bit too long and expects him to take his share of sacks.

 

He liked what he saw from the offense albeit he thought the concepts they were running were very basic -- early install type of stuff. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

From the wording from Mueller, it sounds like as Howell proves he can do it in the regular season, he'd climb up the rankings.

 

Well I would certainly hope so lol...because the alternative is Howell proves he can do it in the regular season, but Mueller doesn't care and keeps him ranked where he is now, or lower.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

So Orlovsky is saying that a QB with one NFL start needs to get better at recognizing the blitz? Man, I gotta sit down. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

So Orlovsky is saying that a QB with one NFL start needs to get better at recognizing the blitz? Man, I gotta sit down. 

I mean, he said that AFTER Sam said he took two sacks which were on him.

 

Clearly Sam has no idea what’s going on or what he has to work on…

[Leonard Washington]

1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

So Orlovsky is saying that a QB with one NFL start needs to get better at recognizing the blitz? Man, I gotta sit down. 

Well he better learn quickly because he’s going to see lots of them until he beat it regularly. 
 

Good news is he seem to be good at reading coverage. If I recall in nearly early sack he looks at the right throw but doesn’t pull the trigger. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for weaknesess.  He thinks he bounces a bit too much in the pocket.  He thinks he holds on to the ball a bit too long and expects him to take his share of sacks.

 

Latter part, absolutely true, it's so clear Howell wants to make plays. First part, I wonder if this is his lack of prototypical QB height or more so his desire to buy a smidge more time? I feel like Drew Brees and Russell Wilson used to do some of that, but I could be wrong.

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He liked what he saw from the offense albeit he thought the concepts they were running were very basic -- early install type of stuff. 

 

Whose the former QB with the youtube channel that does the "QB School" stuff? He mentioned we ran a basic concept with a very slight KC Chiefs twist a buttload of times. Really made it seem like everything was just vanilla preseason bread and butter staples.

[NoCalMike]

I think we also have to realize that young QB's all have weaknesses at the beginning of their careers. They all have things to work on and usually aren't finished products their first season. Sam's physical tools are going to produce a lot of big exciting plays this season, but sometimes it's the quick passes against the blitz that are the difference between a drive ending in a FG attempt and a TD.  Those lumps and learning curves are normal for any QB in Howell's position.  I know we all want Howell to immediately  be competing with the other QB's (especially in the NFC East) but Howell will be at an experience disadvantage, not just NFL experience period, but also being in the first year of a new offense on top of the overall inexperience as an NFL QB.

[Renegade7]

@NoCalMike

 

Thank you for reminding me Howell played with Dyami in college.

 

That's gonna help if Terry is out, Sam is 22, folks are right to blitz him given how young he is and prove he can handle it.

 

The exotic **** is gonna come in September, hopefully on both sides of the ball.  Bieniemy knows this, that's why he's here.

[Going Commando]

16 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Not unreasonable given he states a lot more unknown with Howell due to lack of regular season action.

 

Except that he put Jordan Love #2 on his list, and he's only started one game before too.

 

Mac Jones is on the oddest career trajectory.  Based on achievement as a rookie, he should be at the top of the list.  But he took such a huge step back last season that his future is as murky as any of them.  I have never been a big fan of him and have this suspicion that he hit his ceiling in a Josh McDaniels training wheels system as a rookie, and once he started having to face unfavorable fronts he doesn't have the individual talent to make plays.  But we'll see.  I didn't think he'd be even as good as he was as a rookie, so I could be wrong.

[DWinzit]

50 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Except that he put Jordan Love #2 on his list, and he's only started one game before too.

 

Mac Jones is on the oddest career trajectory.  Based on achievement as a rookie, he should be at the top of the list.  But he took such a huge step back last season that his future is as murky as any of them.  I have never been a big fan of him and have this suspicion that he hit his ceiling in a Josh McDaniels training wheels system as a rookie, and once he started having to face unfavorable fronts he doesn't have the individual talent to make plays.  But we'll see.  I didn't think he'd be even as good as he was as a rookie, so I could be wrong.

Jones may show improvement with Bill O'Brien at OC and some new weapons they have brought in. If he falters Zappe isn't shabby other than his arm strength. 

I agree with Love, he has not really shown anything in the NFL. Fields should be over him for sure.