The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

I didn't watch them all but I liked Haener for 2 seasons running so that would be my guy.  The others, back up types I hyped among those I watched were Tune, DTR, Jaren Hall.  In that order.

 

Haener though my fav of that bunch.

[Skinsinparadise]

‘Quick game’ passing concepts let the Commanders get a move on

 

 

For the Commanders, the importance of quick game will be partly schematic — Bieniemy’s West Coast attack requires precise timing and spacing — and partly practical. It minimizes the weakest aspect of the offense (the line) and accentuates the strongest (the receivers). It counts on the playmakers to generate yards after the catch, and when it’s successful it discourages the opposing defense and unlocks other parts of the offense, including dropback passes.

 

Perhaps most importantly, quick game is a tool to help ease in a young quarterback.

“Quick game is awesome,” Howell said. “ … It makes my job easy, getting the ball out of my hands fast, and we have some really good weapons on the outside. … [It’s] one of my favorite parts of the offense.”

 

Last year, Washington used quick game occasionally, but neither Carson Wentz nor Taylor Heinicke excelled at it. Howell, though, has a strong arm and extensive experience with the concept at the University of North Carolina, especially in the form of run-pass options. He has looked comfortable throwing quick passes, as on the first drive at Cleveland. On one play, he saw soft coverage, snapped his feet into place and delivered a five-yard strike to Curtis Samuel. It took all of 1.4 seconds, per analytics website TruMedia. Samuel secured the ball, slipped a tackler and dived to make it a 10-yard gain.

 

 

For Howell, the play was an easy way to move the chains. For Samuel, it was a challenge.

Effectively, quick game transfers pressure from the quarterback to his receivers. No matter how defenders line up, the receiver must figure out how to get to the same spot at the same moment every time. In quick game, with everything moving fast, the quarterback often throws to a spot, not a teammate.

“If we’re taking too long in and out of our breaks, that’s throwing off Sam,” wideout Terry McLaurin said. “It’s hurting the quarterback. It’s hurting the O-line. So [Bieniemy has] really made an emphasis of everybody doing their job.”

 

...In that example is an essential truth. Quick game can be a critical part of the offense, but it’s always just a part. It can help make Howell comfortable, but it also must set up other parts of the offense, such as screen passes and true dropbacks — because quick game for the sake of quick game can be predictable or inefficient.

But at this point, this much is clear: As the Commanders attack different defensive schemes, one of their most important tools will be quick game.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/08/21/commanders-quick-game-sam-howell/

[MartinC]

‘Quick game’ is not a new thing. Arguably it started with Bill Walsh and whole WCO concept.  For years though the NFL has been a short passing league. 33% of passes league wide travel no more than 3 yards past the line of scrimmage.

 

A big part of that are screens. 

 

https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/breakdowns/how-the-short-passing-game-has-changed-the-nfl/

[wit33]

19 minutes ago, MartinC said:

‘Quick game’ is not a new thing. Arguably it started with Bill Walsh and whole WCO concept.  For years though the NFL has been a short passing league. 33% of passes league wide travel no more than 3 yards past the line of scrimmage.

 

A big part of that are screens. 

 

https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/breakdowns/how-the-short-passing-game-has-changed-the-nfl/

I’d add to the article unless I missed it, what Reid has helped transition to the NFL is quick game that invlolves heavy amount of RPOs. Howell is extremely comfortable and confident within the RPO structure. This should help out the Oline a great deal. 
 

As fans and media (and myself) it seems we are just beginning to learn there’s a skill component to running RPOs and a great deal of nuance to it that I’m still learning. The idea one QB is good at RPO actions and not another and where one is on the spectrum versus the other seems completely foreign to most fans and media. 
 

Learned this a bit with Heineke, from amateur view,  he wasn’t as comfortable operating out of RPOs as he was on straight drop backs. I remember being confused by his lack of runnign two years ago that I searched his college tape and they rarely ran RPO concepts. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

‘Quick game’ is not a new thing. Arguably it started with Bill Walsh and whole WCO concept.  For years though the NFL has been a short passing league. 33% of passes league wide travel no more than 3 yards past the line of scrimmage.

 

A big part of that are screens. 

 

https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/breakdowns/how-the-short-passing-game-has-changed-the-nfl/

It started with Walsh when he was the OC in Cincy, before he even got to the 49ers.  It was the way he worked around a bad OL. 

 

Then, of course, he got to SF, with Montana, and the thing kindof took off. 

 

I wish we could look at the percentage of Jerry Rice's completions which traveled less than 7 yards from the LOS.  I'm pretty sure it would be a bunch.  

[MartinC]

14 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

It started with Walsh when he was the OC in Cincy, before he even got to the 49ers.  It was the way he worked around a bad OL. 

 

Then, of course, he got to SF, with Montana, and the thing kindof took off. 

 

I wish we could look at the percentage of Jerry Rice's completions which traveled less than 7 yards from the LOS.  I'm pretty sure it would be a bunch.  

I recall seeing stats from I think it was 2012 - 70% of throws league wide travelled 10 yards or less from the LOS. That percentage has only gone up.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

25 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I recall seeing stats from I think it was 2012 - 70% of throws league wide travelled 10 yards or less from the LOS. That percentage has only gone up.

 

 

Yeah.  It would be fascinating to look at the WCO stats going back generations.  I wonder what percentage of the 80's 49ers were less than 10 yards, and then those of Walsh's 2 OCs: Shanahan and Holmgren.  Interestingly, both Holmgren and Shanahan ended up coaching QBs who were almost the antithesis of what Joe Montana was: Big, cannon-armed gun-slingers, in Brett Favre and John Elway. 

 

Mike Shanahan broke from the true WCO principal is he put a heavy emphasis on the run, whereas true Walsh WCO was to substitute the short pass for a run.  Holmgren's GB teams did a lot more down-field passing, because Favre liked to throw down-field and had a bazooka.  Ironically, he wasn't a super-fast processing QB, but he had such a good arm, he could get away with it, mostly.  Though, he did throw more INTs than anybody in history, I believe.  

 

I think you saw much more of the Holmgren offense in Seattle than in GB.  And Reid's offense was closer to Walsh's in a lot of ways.  

 

Sorry, I love these historic trips down football history. I find the way offenses morphed based on which tree it was from absolutely fascinating.      

[MartinC]

37 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah.  It would be fascinating to look at the WCO stats going back generations.  I wonder what percentage of the 80's 49ers were less than 10 yards, and then those of Walsh's 2 OCs: Shanahan and Holmgren.  Interestingly, both Holmgren and Shanahan ended up coaching QBs who were almost the antithesis of what Joe Montana was: Big, cannon-armed gun-slingers, in Brett Favre and John Elway. 

 

Mike Shanahan broke from the true WCO principal is he put a heavy emphasis on the run, whereas true Walsh WCO was to substitute the short pass for a run.  Holmgren's GB teams did a lot more down-field passing, because Favre liked to throw down-field and had a bazooka.  Ironically, he wasn't a super-fast processing QB, but he had such a good arm, he could get away with it, mostly.  Though, he did throw more INTs than anybody in history, I believe.  

 

I think you saw much more of the Holmgren offense in Seattle than in GB.  And Reid's offense was closer to Walsh's in a lot of ways.  

 

Sorry, I love these historic trips down football history. I find the way offenses morphed based on which tree it was from absolutely fascinating.      

 

Here that article on the 2012 data.

 

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/pass-atlas-a-map-of-where-nfl-quarterbacks-throw-the-ball/

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

 

[NickyJ]

Ron Rivera is rushing to the mic now to tell us that Howell looked okay in the game, but Jake Fromm is a gamer, a baller, a playmaker, shotcaller, all he does is win.

[Redd]

Howell is our guy. I hope Washington lets him play the whole season regardless of how he does. Then see at the end of the season if we stay the course.

[Bifflog]

My impression as I watched the half unfold was the early short stuff was humming so well that it opened up deeper attempts as time wore on.  Also feels like he puts that ball in danger very rarely which I wasn't really expecting, thinking the INTs could be frequent early on.

 

It's preseason, it's Baltimore's 2's, but some of this should translate so going to continue to be quietly excited to see him when it counts.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I thought Howell looked good. He needs to speed up the clock though.  By his own admission he took 2 sacks which were on him.  He can’t do that.  

 

Though what I was shocked by is how bad Brisset looked.  Egads he looked bad.  My bigger takeaway from the game wasn’t how good Howell looked, it’s how bad Brisset looked.  
 

Fromm looked like Fromm.  Pretty bad but made a few plays.  

Edited August 22, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[Renegade7]

It's been a while I've felt this at peace at QB...at this point if folks like even Aikmen are seeing it, it doesn't feel like jinxing or wishful thinking...

[Morneblade]

I mentioned this before, but the D looked much worse than advertised. Howell, however is legit. He looked really good.

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I thought Howell looked good. He needs to speed up the clock though.  By his own adjust he took 2 sacks which were on him.  He can’t do that.  

 

 

 

Yep, that play where he turned his back on all his receivers trying to get away was an automatic sack the second he did that. 

 

He immediately got the first down next play...at 22.

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

I mentioned this before, but the D looked much worse than advertised. Howell, however is legit. He looked really good.

I don’t think 3/4 of the starters on D played.  

[Morneblade]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don’t think 3/4 of the starters on D played.  

 And they were up against the 2's and 3's, and they could not slow anything down. Did you see any starters on Baltimore out there? Same with Cleveland last week. This is a bad trend.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 And they were up against the 2's and 3's, and they could not slow anything down. Did you see any starters on Baltimore out there? Same with Cleveland last week. This is a bad trend.

I read very little into it.  But they better come out ready to shut down Arizona.  

[SkinsFTW]

Their first round WR was out there so at least one starter for Baltimore played.

[samy316]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I read very little into it.  But they better come out ready to shut down Arizona.  

I’m giving the D a pass for tonight, they literally had every starter out except for Forbes and Jamin Davis.  I’m not gonna panic that our 2nd team D couldn’t beat their 2nd team O.  I’m more concerned about last week’s performance by the D.  The Browns moved the ball down the field with ease on the 1st team D, save for that 4th & Goal stop by Sweat.  
 

Arizona is awful, so I expect our D to look good against them and then the Broncos Week 2.  This defense seems to thrive and excel on beating up on mediocre to below average offenses.  Our first real test comes Week 3 against the Bills.  That’s a Top 5 offense, with a Top 3 QB coming to town.  I’m going to be interested to see how this D looks against one of the best offenses in the league.  I remember how Josh Allen eviscerated us last time he played us.

Edited August 22, 2023 by samy316

[zCommander]

 

 

[SkinsGuy]

5 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Though what I was shocked by is how bad Brisset looked.  Egads he looked bad.  My bigger takeaway from the game wasn’t how good Howell looked, it’s how bad Brisset looked.  

 

That's usually been the problem with Brisset on whatever team he is on.

 

Hot and cold.

 

He can have games where he looks like a playoff QB. Then he'll have games where he looks like he doesn't belong in the NFL.

[DWinzit]

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I thought Howell looked good. He needs to speed up the clock though.  By his own admission he took 2 sacks which were on him.  He can’t do that.  

 

Though what I was shocked by is how bad Brisset looked.  Egads he looked bad.  My bigger takeaway from the game wasn’t how good Howell looked, it’s how bad Brisset looked.  
 

Fromm looked like Fromm.  Pretty bad but made a few plays.  

I like Brissett and figure he will be fine...especially if we can improve the Tackle situation.

 

I can't post enough how much I can't stand not having a QB3 that has redeeming qualities moving forward. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by DWinzit

[Skinsinparadise]