The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mac8887]

7 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

I really don't want us taking Daniels, purely because of the ridiculous levels of hype (and sheer defensiveness) of his fans on here. I get that College football is big over there but from someone with no axe to grind it's just childish. If anyone posts anything remotely critical of him there's instantly three or four people leaping to his defence. It's just so over the top.  

The problem is the ones that are critiquing him are posting things that just aren't true. There are plenty of things that they could actually say and people wouldn't be jumping to his defense.

 

1. His biggest flaw from last year was coming of his reads to quick to go to another and then the first read ends up breaking open for what would've been a big gain. This is not as bad as holding the ball to long starring down a receiver that's covered and taking lots of sacks, but it still was a major issue and caused him to use his legs or check down more than he needed to. But at least he was safe with the ball.

 

2. He was highly touted but really didn't live up to that until he got to LSU, even though he's shown major growth and had an amazing year this year, while younger, at ASU, he really put some poor play on tape, that's worrisome, it's possible he could fall back to the same habits that caused the poor play when he has to deal with how much faster the game is in the NFL.

 

3. The only valid one I've seen people actually use, that he doesn't do enough to protect himself, but you can't knock somebody for putting his body on the line for his team, we all cheered heineke when he was doing it. Who's to say his coaches were trying to protect him though, they had no incentive to do so and were probably wanting him to try to score every play, the only chance they had of making the playoff was for him to do so. But this is a fair critique of him.

 

I imagine whoever drafts him will do everything they can to get him to protect himself better by sliding and running out of bounds instead of cutting back inside trying to get more yards.

 

4. He didn't take many snaps from behind center at LSU and while he did at ASU he wasn't putting up the same kind of numbers. You have to worry if he will be able to take snaps from behind center easily without seeing a dip in his performance and that is yet to be determined.

 

5. We really don't know how good he is at deciphering defenses pre snap. We don't know how easily he will be able to learn an nfl playbook and the verbiage to be able to get out of a bad play if he actually is able to read a defense pre snap. While he did play for Herm in a more pro style offense at asu, he didn't put up the same kind of numbers and wasn't proficient with it.

 

6. His arm is not as big as the others, and that may limit some of the throws into tight windows.

 

Those are some fair critiques of daniels, but the ones we get on here are

 

1. that he is a major injury waiting to happen, even though he has never had one.

 

2. That he throws to wide open guys. Would you rather him make a bad decision and throw into double coverage?

 

3. He doesn't throw 20 yard crossing patterns into the middle of the field. He has and does it well, just not very often, but no qb does. They take to long to develop and when you make that throw you are putting your reciever in position to get hit with a boom stick from a safety covering center field. Not many offenses even run that route that often anymore to try to protect their receivers. You see more and more tight end seam routes into those areas of the field to help keep receivers from getting blown up with a big hit.

 

4. He doesn't throw with anticipation into tight windows. I have seen plenty of tape with him doing so, I believe it was colt Mccoy who did a film review on him and showed him layering the ball into a tight window right behind the line backer and in front of the dbs. You watch anyones film review on him and they all say the same thing, that he is really good at it. He layers it well and can do it with touch

 

5. That he is a one read and run. Again, not true. He is a pocket passer that actually does go through his reads. Yes he will take off and run, but that is usually only if everyone is covered, or while he is going through his reads, he sees a lot of green in front of him and knows he can get a big gain without risking a throw.

 

 

[mistertim]

13 minutes ago, illone said:

 

 

We have a loooong way to go man. At this time last year NOBODY was talking about Anthony Richardson as a top ten pick, but you saw what happened. 

 

Slightly different situation with JJ since he won the naty and will have Harbaugh singing his praises, but it's not crazy to think he will be one of the risers over the coming weeks.

 

To me, McCarthy being a riser means he could potentially crack the top 10.

 

As far as Richardson, he was picked that high purely based on having an absolutely through the roof upside. McCarthy doesn't really fit that bill. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

So is this the “Jayden sucks!!!” “No he doesn’t!!!” thread? 😆
 

It’s all good, friends. We’re gonna draft Maye anyway. Cool convo though. 

[dunfer]

4 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

So is this the “Jayden sucks!!!” “No he doesn’t!!!” thread? 😆
 

It’s all good, friends. We’re gonna draft Maye anyway. Cool convo though. 

its going to come down to the interviews with these guys

 

But you do have to look at Daniels at the right angle and lighting, otherwise hes too thin and light doesnt reflect his muscles to your retinas

[BayouBrave86]

1 hour ago, UK Skins said:

I really don't want us taking Daniels, purely because of the ridiculous levels of hype (and sheer defensiveness) of his fans on here. I get that College football is big over there but from someone with no axe to grind it's just childish. If anyone posts anything remotely critical of him there's instantly three or four people leaping to his defence. It's just so over the top.  

 you don’t want to draft a QB because a few fans are going back and forth?

 

also one side is using facts while the other side is just going off their personal feels and posting stuff that is just flat out incorrect

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, dunfer said:

taking a qb at 2 means its a completely new staff and youre picking second and we dont have a franchise qb. If Sam wins the offseason start Sam until the new guy catches up.

 

2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I don't think our team needs to be spending time or resources coaching him up. Once we pick someone at 2, all the focus should be on getting them ready. If Howell is still on the team and he learns something, cool, but taking someone else at 2 means they know Howell is not the guy and there is no point in wasting time or resources on someone you know is not the guy. 

 

I also don't like the idea of Howell as a backup no matter who the starter is. We need a veteran

You coach up all of your players, especially a 23 year old QB who passed for just short of 4000 yards with 21 TD's in his 1st season as a starter on a poorly coached team. 

[Dah-Dee]

For those thinking/hoping Commanders trade up for Williams, based on what we've heard/seen so far from Quinn/Peters, I just don't see it happening.

 

Quinn, when asked about the strength of our roster, essentially said we've got a couple of good DTs and a couple of fast WRs, and that's it. That, together with hiring coaches with reps for developing young players, and Peters' history of finding good picks in later rounds, makes me think Washington wants to draft the hell out of 2024, use the cap space for a few impact FAs (Edge(s)? OL? LB? DB?), and (re)build.

 

If anything, I'd expect them to trade down from a 2nd rounder, and maybe after that too, to accumulate more picks.

 

Feels like the roster will look a whole lot different come Game 1 2024.

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

1 hour ago, BayouBrave86 said:

Uh huh sure you have. This will

summarize the season for you. 

https://x.com/LonnPhillips/status/1728786597322064182?s=20

 

 

 

Would probably be helpful to post the numbers for the other top prospects as well in order to provide additional context:

 

Maye: https://premium.pff.com/ncaa/players/2023/REGPO/drake-maye/143969/passing-depth

 

 

Williams: https://premium.pff.com/ncaa/players/2023/REGPO/caleb-williams/144622/passing-depth

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, mac8887 said:

 

 

2. He was highly touted but really didn't live up to that until he got to LSU, even though he's shown major growth and had an amazing year this year, while younger, at ASU, he really put some poor play on tape, that's worrisome, it's possible he could fall back to the same habits that caused the poor play when he has to deal with how much faster the game is in the NFL.

 

 

 

 

 

I live in the Phoenix area and my youngest is going to ASU. To be fair to Daniels ASU is a **** show of a football program - he was wasting his time there. They had Daniels and Johnny Wilson there at receiver at the same time and hardly used Wilson at all. Its hard for any QB to flourish when there is so much around you that's bad.

[MartinC]

34 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

 

 

3. He doesn't throw 20 yard crossing patterns into the middle of the field. He has and does it well, just not very often, but no qb does. They take to long to develop and when you make that throw you are putting your reciever in position to get hit with a boom stick from a safety covering center field. Not many offenses even run that route that often anymore to try to protect their receivers. You see more and more tight end seam routes into those areas of the field to help keep receivers from getting blown up with a big hit.

 

 

 

 

You do run the dig a lot in the NFL - normally 12 -15 yards. But you want to hit the receiver on the inside edge of the numbers if the middle of the filed is closed. Timing is critical. Its when the QB is late on that throw that you see the big hits with the free safety.

 

Deep cross you want to hit after they cross the middle so they are running away from that single high safety.

[NOLA2DC]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

Well the mere fact the Bears are waiting for the ‘historic offer’ keeps the door open for me. This FO is off the charts ambitious. I still see an offer going in for the #1 pick. We have best end of 90mil in cap space. What a perfect moment to go all in.

 

Of course I’m likely way off on that. But we don’t give the impression of an outfit that is sitting there saying “well let’s see who is there are #2 and take him”. I see more of, “who do we want, let’s go ****ing get him”…….

I think the Bears are doing the standard move when you're on the clock: wait. They did this last year and fleeced Carolina. This time, they're actually playing coy for two reasons. One is to get the best deal for Justin. If they move him too quickly, that reduces his value and stops the hypothetical bidding for Williams.  There's no way you trade Justin for anyone outside of the guy people call the next Mahomes. I think the action will be determined by NE and Atlanta (draft a QB or trade for Fields), but I doubt Chicago trades the top pick two years in a row. 

[skinsarethebest]

1 hour ago, UK Skins said:

I really don't want us taking Daniels, purely because of the ridiculous levels of hype (and sheer defensiveness) of his fans on here. I get that College football is big over there but from someone with no axe to grind it's just childish. If anyone posts anything remotely critical of him there's instantly three or four people leaping to his defence. It's just so over the top.  

 

You could say the same for Maye.  To be honest, I think his flaws and shortcomings are even more overlooked by his defenders than they are for Daniels and his defenders.  I’m talking here about the sort of unwavering blind support he’s given by those who want him

 

as for the Daniels hype issue, um yeah, to be expected: he did win the Heisman after all - and did so in incredibly impressive fashion. 
 

What I don’t like about Maye is his regression and his UNC background (and poor showing against some of the weaker teams in the ACC).  And yeah, the fact he came from the same school and program as Howell (and is apparently close friends with him) is not good.

[illone]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

Yeah, people don’t want to trade back because having extra picks is pointless without a stud QB.

 

However, the same people don’t want to trade up and give away equivalent picks to get a stud QB.

 

Go figure……

 

 

IMO it's all about how this staff grades this crop of players. If there is a significant GAP between Caleb and the next tier of QBs, then trading up makes sense if the price is right. However, if that GAP is tiny and the price is wrong, and you have another 2nd tier QB like JJ or Nix graded well, then trading back makes more sense to me.

 

Kind of stating the obvious here, but the draft board right now is just a culmination of other people's opinions so there is no way to know how each specific team grades em. Finding a trading partner is also interesting because Chicago might not want to move back too far depending on their own draft board so even if a team further down the line is able to offer more, it might not be worth it to them because they will miss on the guy they covet.

 

I totally get the crowd that says "keep it simple, just draft a guy at #2", and that to me is the most likely scenario which is why I am dying to be a fly on the wall in their draft meetings. This feels like the most important draft in my lifetime 😂

[illone]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

To me, McCarthy being a riser means he could potentially crack the top 10.

 

As far as Richardson, he was picked that high purely based on having an absolutely through the roof upside. McCarthy doesn't really fit that bill. 

 

JJ has plenty of upside, but it's ok to see things differently. 🫡

[mh86]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

Would probably be helpful to post the numbers for the other top prospects as well in order to provide additional context:

 

Maye: https://premium.pff.com/ncaa/players/2023/REGPO/drake-maye/143969/passing-depth

 

 

Williams: https://premium.pff.com/ncaa/players/2023/REGPO/caleb-williams/144622/passing-depth

I appreciate this. Don’t like when people post blanket stats or graphics to try to prove a point without at least comparing it to other prospects. Do you by chance have McCarthy, nix’s and penix’s? I tried checking the website but it says I need pff+ or whatever.

[illone]

11 minutes ago, mh86 said:

I appreciate this. Don’t like when people post blanket stats or graphics to try to prove a point without at least comparing it to other prospects. Do you by chance have McCarthy, nix’s and penix’s? I tried checking the website but it says I need pff+ or whatever.

 

JJ McCarthy

 

 

Bo Nix:

 

 

Penix:

[The Consigliere]

On 2/14/2024 at 8:31 AM, ThatNFLChick said:

I actually think McCarthy has better footwork throwing on the run than he does in the pocket. That percentage is eye opening though 

When people post stuff like this it makes me want to know sample size. How many times did McCarthy actually throw the ball while scrambling, total, compared to the other dudes? 

[HigSkin]

 

[clskinsfan]

After Kliff's presser I am pretty sure we are going to go Daniels. I dont like it at 2 as I have said 50 times at this point. But I will be cheering my ass off for the guy if it happens. God help them if they are wrong.

[CapsSkins]

Kingsbury's comments were very general. Functional mobility is something all top QB prospects these days have, and the intangibles thing fits Caleb/Drake/Jayden too.

 

System-wise, seems like the staff has yet to cook up what exactly they want to run. And it's not like we have a ton of pieces on the O side that you'd build around...

 

Really seems like they're going to pick the QB they like best and then build a system around that guy. That's encouraging.

Edited February 16 by CapsSkins

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, mac8887 said:

you can't knock somebody for putting his body on the line for his team

No. You really can knock them. A QB on the bench with an injury is worthless. 

2 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Kingsbury's comments were very general.

Not really. He specifically mentioned Mahomes and Murray when he made the comment. 

[dunfer]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

No. You really can knock them. A QB on the bench with an injury is worthless. 

unless its for the go ahead score in the superbowl with 5 seconds left

 

Otherwise ill take 8 yards and a slide vs 10 and a helicopter

[Conn]

4 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Not really. He specifically mentioned Mahomes and Murray when he made the comment. 

Except he said you DON’T need to be Lamar or Murray, implying functional mobility, escapability, and creativity is fine. 
 

He gave nothing away.

 

Also Mahomes is probably the least mobile out of himself, Williams, Maye, and Daniels lol. He just uses it incredibly

smartly and has unbelievable instincts. 

Edited February 16 by Conn

[CapsSkins]

4 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Not really. He specifically mentioned Mahomes and Murray when he made the comment. 

 

He said Mahomes as a joke bc he's Baby GOAT & Murray to specify you *don't* need to be Kyler or Lamar (btw - Mahomes isn't a running QB anyway, he's a functional mobility kind of guy). Mahomes and Kyler are also both guys he's coached before.

 

They may very well draft Daniels, but I don't think Kingsbury's press conference gave anything away re: that decision. 

[kingdaddy]

56 minutes ago, illone said:

 

JJ has plenty of upside, but it's ok to see things differently. 🫡

Did I see where JJ has comps to Drew Brees?