The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[redskinss]

 

Right now at extreme Vikings.com

 

[Koolblue13]

54 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Can you provide examples of elite dual-threat individuals with notably brief careers?

 

Additionally, how do you define a "very short" career in your perspective? 
 

Truly interested to hear your thoughts, especially when your other team has an elite dual threat guy playing on a second contract. 

Short RG3. Name a dual threat QB who didn't miss significant time over their career. 

 

Let's look at Cam Newton. Only really had a 7 year career and he was one of the biggest guys on the field.

 

Hurts, who you mentioned annoyingly, has been hurt for a year and a half.

 

Lamar just had his first full season and we saw what happened when he couldn't run.

 

It's entirely possible that Daniels is the first dual threat QB to have a healthy career. He could also be like a Randal Cunningham and become an incredible pocket passer when he can't run any more.

 

But that is ceiling talk, which I think is sky high for all 3, but floor means as bad as it gets and a frail built QB who leaves the pocket and doesnt slide has a lower floor. 

[ST_DaGoat21]

27 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Yeah, people keep telling me that daniels doesn't throw over the middle with anticipation, but nearly every video I've seen of people putting a draft grade on him by critiquing his play show him throwing the ball over the middle with anticipation, while layering it in between the linebackers and the dbs very often. 

 

The knock I see of him on video with people actualling showing plays be run is that sometimes he comes off his reads to quickly and looks to another receiver just before his 1st read breaks open. That seems like a good problem to have because at least he's going through his reads quickly.

You can watch for yourself.  I counted 2 balls over the middle the entire game.  One was dropped and one sailed over the wr.  

 

To me Daniels is an anorexic version of Trey Lance.  Lance had a ton of TDS in college and only 1 int because he just threw go routes and never had to throw into tight windows.  Lance also was a one read and take off qb.  I don’t care how pretty your deep ball is, it’s not something that is sustainable in the NFL.  Neither is scrambling every other play.

[redskin301]

This is the season for talking heads to throw S*** at the wall. just for clicks 

[CapsSkins]

4 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

1. Caleb - but is he a nut case in the making ?

2. Daniels - but can he comfortably add 20lbs ?

3. Maye - but should he be higher ? I just don’t see enough of something….

4. McCarthy - really like him but when you are sat at #2 it’s hard to justify going JJ.

5. Nix - really like him too, but again it would be settling for much less by a distance.

 

 

It's, of course, fine and reasonable to like Daniels as your QB2. However, he is not going to comfortably add 20 lbs of muscle. That's just not happening. If you like him at 2, it has to be that you like him at his current weight +5-7 lbs. 23 year old elite athletes aren't going to add another 20 lbs of muscle.

[Est.1974]

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

lot of angst on this thread.

 

A.  Some with Caleb are bust

 

B.  People posting t feels gleefully when anyone slams these QBs especially Maye

 

C.  Zero Sum game decision between Maye and Daniels -- where if someone doesn't get the QB they want its a sad day.

Nah, it’s all good discussion. I just think we are all very excited for the offseason 

8 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

It's, of course, fine and reasonable to like Daniels as your QB2. However, he is not going to comfortably add 20 lbs of muscle. That's just not happening. If you like him at 2, it has to be that you like him at his current weight +5-7 lbs. 23 year old elite athletes aren't going to add another 20 lbs of muscle.

Oh well he’s off my board then 

[NOLA2DC]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Short RG3. Name a dual threat QB who didn't miss significant time over their career. 

 

Let's look at Cam Newton. Only really had a 7 year career and he was one of the biggest guys on the field.

 

Hurts, who you mentioned annoyingly, has been hurt for a year and a half.

 

Lamar just had his first full season and we saw what happened when he couldn't run.

 

It's entirely possible that Daniels is the first dual threat QB to have a healthy career. He could also be like a Randal Cunningham and become an incredible pocket passer when he can't run any more.

 

But that is ceiling talk, which I think is sky high for all 3, but floor means as bad as it gets and a frail built QB who leaves the pocket and doesnt slide has a lower floor. 

Why doesn't anyone mention Steve Young? Lamar is already a first-ballot HOF guy, and Josh Allen appears to be on his way. Cam will be a HOF candidate based on stats alone, so we can't act like his  10 career is a disappointment. Injuries are part of the league, and even Big Ben's career was probably shortened because he thought he could take pounding from the pocket, and Peyton took an injury year off.

The WR for Philly is going on his 4 or 5th year and has not had serious injury problems and he's a stick physically. I think we can't expect everyone to have a 15 + year career when everyone gets hurt at some point.  

[DWinzit]

Just now, Est.1974 said:

Nah, it’s all good discussion. I just think we are all very excited for the offseason 

No, it is definitely angst!  

 

Hahaha

[Inigo Montoya]

Put me in the camp that would be excited for Daniels or Maye, most exciting position to be in, drafting the most exciting/ difficult to evaluate position on the field. Its nowhere near the same, but my son is a high school QB and to watch the prep, training, film, etc they go through at his level is insane and I have so much respect for the guys that make it to the NFL now. 

 

I have reservations about Daniels holding up and I have reservations about Maye being more consistent. Think I lean towards the prototypical size and attributes of Maye from what I've seen. Hopefully our QB coach is able to maximize the strengths of whomever we draft. Good times, remember its been 12 years since we were in this position and expected to get a potential franchise QB! 

[CapsSkins]

I have my amateur personal preference, but I'm very encouraged by our new FO & staff and am fully confident in their evaluation abilities. I will trust whichever decision they make, so long as they take a QB at 2. If they don't, I'll still be open-minded but highly skeptical.

[Ghost of]

36 minutes ago, ST_DaGoat21 said:

You can watch for yourself.  I counted 2 balls over the middle the entire game.  One was dropped and one sailed over the wr.  

To me Daniels is an anorexic version of Trey Lance.  Lance had a ton of TDS in college and only 1 int because he just threw go routes and never had to throw into tight windows.  Lance also was a one read and take off qb.  I don’t care how pretty your deep ball is, it’s not something that is sustainable in the NFL.  Neither is scrambling every other play.

5:48 had no sense that a guy was coming on his blind side. I get that everyone gets rocked at least once in their career from their blind side but this is the same game where he jumped in the middle of a crowded line and got smacked back down.

 

I'll root for anyone but if you exclude his admittedly dynamic running, I don't get the Daniels appeal compared to Caleb Williams or Drake Maye.  Yes, I like JJ but I don't expect anyone to take him #2. Like Daniels probably pops more as a "weapon" than Maye but as a QB? I don't know.

Edited February 15 by Ghost of

[Koolblue13]

20 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

No, it is definitely angst!  

 

Hahaha

The Daniels fan boys are being intentionally obtuse and it's irritating.

 

I like Daniels a lot and would be ecstatic if that's who we select, but to completely ignore obvious well known and understood facts about DTQBs is just annoying.

24 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

Why doesn't anyone mention Steve Young? Lamar is already a first-ballot HOF guy, and Josh Allen appears to be on his way. Cam will be a HOF candidate based on stats alone, so we can't act like his  10 career is a disappointment. Injuries are part of the league, and even Big Ben's career was probably shortened because he thought he could take pounding from the pocket, and Peyton took an injury year off.

The WR for Philly is going on his 4 or 5th year and has not had serious injury problems and he's a stick physically. I think we can't expect everyone to have a 15 + year career when everyone gets hurt at some point.  

There is just too much to unpack with this post.

[Est.1974]

11 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The Daniels fan boys are being intentionally obtuse and it's irritating.

Thanks 

[ST_DaGoat21]

23 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

5:48 had no sense that a guy was coming on his blind side. I get that everyone gets rocked at least once in their career from their blind side but this is the same game where he jumped in the middle of a crowded line and got smacked back down.

 

I'll root for anyone but if you exclude his admittedly dynamic running, I don't get the Daniels appeal compared to Caleb Williams or Drake Maye.  Yes, I like JJ but I don't expect anyone to take him #2. Like Daniels probably pops more as a "weapon" than Maye but as a QB? I don't know.

I agree with you on JJ.  For me it’s:

1a. Caleb

1b. Drake

2. JJ

 

and I think the other 3 QBs are 2nd rounders.  

I’ve watched a lot of JJ the past few days.  It’s the complete opposite of Jayden in that he is consistently making tight window throws and throwing over the middle.  He also doesn’t throw a lot of deep fade routes.  My one gripe with him is that he seems to only throw fastballs and there isn’t a lot of touch passes.  

[MartinC]

48 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

Why doesn't anyone mention Steve Young? 

 

Because although Steve could run he rarely did - and when he did it was almost always a scramble off a broken play. The most he averaged in a season was under 5 rushes a game and he only (barley) broke 500 yards rushing in a season once. 

 

He became an elite pocket passer who had mobility to extend plays outside the scheme when he was forced to.

[NOLA2DC]

1 hour ago, ST_DaGoat21 said:

You can watch for yourself.  I counted 2 balls over the middle the entire game.  One was dropped and one sailed over the wr.  

 

To me Daniels is an anorexic version of Trey Lance.  Lance had a ton of TDS in college and only 1 int because he just threw go routes and never had to throw into tight windows.  Lance also was a one read and take off qb.  I don’t care how pretty your deep ball is, it’s not something that is sustainable in the NFL.  Neither is scrambling every other play.

Trey Lance played at North Dakota State or something like that and lost a year due to COVID. If I recall correctly, you can't be serious. Daniels put up big numbers in the SEC. I have a preference but I'm not claiming anyone is so much better than other.     On a lighter note:

 

3 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Because although Steve could run he rarely did - and when he did it was almost always a scramble off a broken play. The most he averaged in a season was under 5 rushes a game and he only (barley) broke 500 yards rushing in a season once. 

 

He became an elite pocket passer who had mobility to extend plays outside the scheme when he was forced to.

Dual threat? I could have sworn he labeled himself as such. 

 

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Short RG3. Name a dual threat QB who didn't miss significant time over their career.

 

 

Injuries are part of the game. In the same draft class, we witnessed Andrew Luck retiring before RG3. 
 

I'm not suggesting that dual-threat QBs aren't more susceptible to missing playing time, but it's uncommon for their careers to be abruptly shortened by injuries. 
 

On the flip side, we could witness quarterbacks usually considered safer from an injury standpoint diminishing due to running more. There's an expectation for all quarterbacks to be able to create, extend, and scramble for yards when necessary. The baseline for running expectations set by franchises is on the rise.

 

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

 

 

Let's look at Cam Newton. Only really had a 7 year career and he was one of the biggest guys on the field.

 

Newton completed 11 seasons in the NFL.

 

In his 10th season with the Patriots, his  running ability remained at an elite level.
 

Unfortunately, his throwing power was significantly affected when his AC joint on his throwing shoulder got injured while attempting a tackle.

His legs remained elite to the end. 

 

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Hurts, who you mentioned annoyingly, has been hurt for a year and a half.

 

You are too easily annoyed my man. 
 

Most QBs are injured. Tough sport. 

 

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Lamar just had his first full season and we saw what happened when he couldn't run.

 

Are you saying he was injured and that’s why he couldn’t run? I don’t think that’s what you mean, but just checking. 

 

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

It's entirely possible that Daniels is the first dual threat QB to have a healthy career. He could also be like a Randal Cunningham and become an incredible pocket passer when he can't run any more.

 

I concur that such a scenario seems improbable.

 

Personally, I'm content with an 8-year run, given it yields a 60-70% win percentage, chances for deep playoff runs, and perhaps a fortunate journey to the championship game.

 

If there are signs of decline after the second contract, then start exploring other options. The notion of playing a 15-20-year game with a QB is somewhat fantastical; it does happen, but typically only for Hall of Fame quarterbacks (not attaching this to you by any means). If that's the argument, then yes, I strongly lean towards Drake Maye over Daniels. 100% Maye is more likely to start for a franchise in years 13-20 than Danies. 
 

I appreciate having a player's superpower with a high likelihood of impacting games at a high level, especially early in their rookie contract. Daniel’s projects to impact the teams run game at an elite level, elevating his RBs and Oline day 1 upon his arrival. 

 

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

But that is ceiling talk, which I think is sky high for all 3, but floor means as bad as it gets and a frail built QB who leaves the pocket and doesnt slide has a lower floor. 

I get this, but I like probabilities of the Washington QB have a physical advantage over the pool of mediocre QBs that represent 70% of starters and over the great to elite guys Washington will play in the playoffs. Relying on Drake Maye to become a better QB mentally than the dudes in the league seems like a lower probability. 
 

Take Jalen Hurts, for instance. While he may not excel in traditional pocket QB skills, he held his own against Mahomes in the Super Bowl, with many believing he outplayed Mahomes. His impact came significantly from his running ability, something Mahomes can't quite match in the same way.

 

While I generally lean towards quarterback "freaks," I'm perfectly fine if they end up with Maye. The discussion has shifted from, and at least around here, there's no debate about the need for a QB who can create and extend – Maye can certainly do that.

 

Edited February 15 by wit33

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm guessing I probably come across as really disliking Daniels in this thread due to the debates I've had about him. But I don't dislike him at all. I actually really enjoy watching him play. It's just that I have more concerns and questions about him than I do with Maye, which is why I prefer Maye.

 

I was not thinking of you when typing that.  But some seem so hopped up about one over the other that i gather some people are bound to be dissappointed. 

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

Nah, it’s all good discussion. I just think we are all very excited for the offseason 

 

 

That's cool.  I guess where i am coming from I got some preferences among those three.  But some come off like the gaps are miles between these guys and I personally don't feel that way.  But more on point, i am not sweating it, we got a good brain trust figuring this out -- thankfully its not Ron or Bruce, etc making this call.

Edited February 15 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

27 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Thanks 

I was not even thinking of you my man. 

[FootballZombie]

I don't own a knife big enough to cut the amount of irony in here.

 

Continue on tho

[FrFan]

3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

I don't own a knife big enough to cut the amount of irony in here.

 

Continue on tho

[Koolblue13]

Williams is the only one of the top 4 that I'm really worried about.

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Williams is the only one of the top 4 that I'm really worried about.

I still reckon plan A is to throw a some picks at the Bears.

[mac8887]

1 hour ago, CapsSkins said:

 

It's, of course, fine and reasonable to like Daniels as your QB2. However, he is not going to comfortably add 20 lbs of muscle. That's just not happening. If you like him at 2, it has to be that you like him at his current weight +5-7 lbs. 23 year old elite athletes aren't going to add another 20 lbs of muscle.

But does it have to be muscle? He said 20lbs. Mahomes is probably closer to 25% body fat than 10%. The dude got a soft belly and man boobs.

Edited February 15 by mac8887

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, mac8887 said:

But does it have to be muscle? He said 20lbs. Mahomes is probably closer to 25% boddy fat than 10%. The dude got a soft belly and man boobs.

That’s correct. I didn’t specify muscle at all.