The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Dark Acre]

3 hours ago, skinny21 said:

I can see a world where we talk up Howell (and bemoan his support system), including pushing the idea that we’re turning to an offensive scheme he had a lot of success in and comfort with.  Then we leak that we absolutely love MJII and also like both qbs. 

Why would anyone believe this?  If we decide to run it back with Howell, even with MHJ, I think teams would be looking to play us.  

[mistertim]

13 minutes ago, Dark Acre said:

Why would anyone believe this?  If we decide to run it back with Howell, even with MHJ, I think teams would be looking to play us.  

 

Nobody would. Every year there are people coming up with super complex 4D chess ideas about we we are or should be doing in the draft, and it never shakes out like that. Sure, teams usually aren't going to be super open bout exactly what their plans are, but it isn't some Game of Thrones level palace intrigue play or anything.

 

I feel the same way about these nonsensical mocks where we trade back x number of places, then trade up x number and get our QB while picking up y amount of extra picks. It's just sorta dumb because it will never happen.

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Nobody would. Every year there are people coming up with super complex 4D chess ideas about we we are or should be doing in the draft, and it never shakes out like that. Sure, teams usually aren't going to be super open bout exactly what their plans are, but it isn't some Game of Thrones level palace intrigue play or anything.

 

I feel the same way about these nonsensical mocks where we trade back x number of places, then trade up x number and get our QB while picking up y amount of extra picks. It's just sorta dumb because it will never happen.

The only time we ever moved down only to move back up was the Ricky Williams trade, where we gave a bunch of the capital back to draft Champ Bailey. Granted Bailey ended up being a GOAT-tier CB, but still, not the best way to utilize assets.

 

Keep it simple. Draft whoever you think is the best between Maye or Daniels and start building around them.

1 hour ago, Dark Acre said:

Why would anyone believe this?  If we decide to run it back with Howell, even with MHJ, I think teams would be looking to play us.  

Noone will believe we'll draft anything other than QB, but I could see us trying to talk up Howell so we can maybe trade him for a 4th rounder or something.

[NOLA2DC]

2 hours ago, skinsfan66 said:

They critique all QB's for all different reasons just like they are doing now to the 2024 QB's. Nobody wants a statue, mobile QB's come in all sizes and styles, some are better passers, some can run you over with a stiff arm, some are quicker, some have a better head for the game, some can lead and be average at both or what ever. The dual treats are a staple now it's all on evaluation.   

I'm not sure about that. Obviously, the league has changed, and no one wants a statute back there. However, the dual-threat guys routinely get two suggestions: a one-read guy and not a pure passer. The unique thing comment I see with Daniels is the size comment, everything else is pretty standard.  

Edited February 14 by NOLA2DC
typo

[mistertim]

18 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

I'm not sure about that. Obviously, the league has changed, and no one wants a statute back there. However, the dual-threat guys routinely get two suggestions: a one-read guy and not a pure passer. The unique thing comment I see with Daniels is the size comment, everything else is pretty standard.  

 

The mostly one read thing is true when you watch tape of Daniels. He doesn't often get off of his first read if you pay attention to his head during his cutups. 

[skinsfan66]

15 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

I'm not sure about that. Obviously, the league has changed, and no one wants a statute back there. However, the dual-threat guys routinely get two suggestions: a one-read guy and not a pure passer. The unique thing comment I see with Daniels is the size comment, everything else is pretty standard.  

Daniels has got the passing thing down, he is not Lamar, Hurts, Watson type runners they run like RB's with mean stiff arms if they choose. He is more like Fields but a better Passer. There is a difference in size it's what you like. Just my opinion, which is not much around here anyway.  

[Rolo Tomasie]

4 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

Yeah, I remember, thought about mentioning it, then had PTSD thinking about that classic Jets game from December where he and Gannon split snaps, and we had the worst performance we'd had since probably the seventies. Moved along. Gannon's a weird one. System made him, or blossomed late? You decide...kinda thing. Awful QB from '87-'93, had an adequate run as a spot starter for the Chiefs afterwards, and then suddenly was an All Pro for the raiders in his mid thirties from '99-'02. Totally bizarre. Not bad cv when you look at KC/Oakland years, but blech in Minny and Washington. 

As I remember it, Gannons reputation early in his career was that he always had a good arm AND quick feet, but very poor accuracy. He's an example of how some QBs really do get more accurate with maturity.

[NOLA2DC]

16 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The mostly one read thing is true when you watch tape of Daniels. He doesn't often get off of his first read if you pay attention to his head during his cutups. 

Like I said, rinse an repeat. He's not a one-read guy. I've seen him stand tall several times and go through his possessions. 

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

Like I said, rinse an repeat. He's not a one-read guy. I've seen him stand tall several times and go through his possessions. 

 

Which cutups did you watch? Yes I didn't say he never goes through any progressions. I said he rarely does. If you watch the cutups and watch his head you'll see that much of the time he doesn't get off of his first read and then usually tucks it and runs.

 

This is like the whole thing about him rarely throwing into tight windows and with anticipation. The Daniels people immediately came out and said "SEE! HERE'S A CLIP OF A TIGHT WINDOW THROW!" and pretending that others were saying he's incapable or has never done it. I'm really not sure if it's not reading or understanding the actual point being made or simply being disingenuous.

Edited February 15 by mistertim

[ThatNFLChick]

17 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

Like I said, rinse an repeat. He's not a one-read guy. I've seen him stand tall several times and go through his possessions. 

 

Like even Mark Bullock talked about watching his tape, seeing him go through reads, changing things at the line of scrimmage, recognizing defensive formations etc. on Al Galdi's podcast today and seeing him doing it all through games like the Alabama game and Mizzou game. 

 

 

 

Edited February 15 by ThatNFLChick

[Rolo Tomasie]

I'm #teammaye and even I think the Daniels "one read" stuff is way overblown. He repeatedly progressed through reads when I watch him. He does take off scrambling earlier typically, but he's also a better runner, so why not? He does not look to pass from a scramble as much either...but if you're succeeding at scrambling, why look to pass. 

Bigger issue is the lsu offense was not a lot of typical NFL type throws, to my mind.

[NOLA2DC]

25 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Which cutups did you watch? Yes I didn't say he never goes through any progressions. I said he rarely does. If you watch the cutups and watch his head you'll see that much of the time he doesn't get off of his first read and then usually tucks it and runs.

 

This is like the whole thing about him rarely throwing into tight windows and with anticipation. The Daniels people immediately came out and said "SEE! HERE'S A CLIP OF A TIGHT WINDOW THROW!" and pretending that others were saying he's incapable or has never done it. I'm really not sure if it's not reading or understanding the actual point being made or simply being disingenuous.

I've seen evaluators expressly point out how that was part of his evaluation this year and he demonstrated that more this year than last year at LSU or ASU. At this stage, there are several mashups of all the top 3 guys. If you think Maye or Caleb are better, that's fine, but don't stereotype the kid. 

[mh86]

Just now, NOLA2DC said:

I've seen evaluators expressly point out how that was part of his evaluation this year and he demonstrated that more this year than last year at LSU or ASU. At this stage, there are several mashups of all the top 3 guys. If you think Maye or Caleb are better, that's fine, but don't stereotype the kid. 

So you’re saying you didn’t watch the cutups?

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

I've seen evaluators expressly point out how that was part of his evaluation this year and he demonstrated that more this year than last year at LSU or ASU. At this stage, there are several mashups of all the top 3 guys. If you think Maye or Caleb are better, that's fine, but don't stereotype the kid. 

 

Watching film and seeing something is not stereotyping.

[FootballZombie]

You can just look at his mechanical technique to know he is not a one read and run guy. Its pretty outstanding for a college guy. You can tell the time put in it.

 

He is constantly realigning, readjusting, looking off safeties and has some of the quickest footwork you'll ever see.

His mechanics and ability to snap are near universally loved and pop off the tape. That part of his game would not be allowed the opportunity to flash if he is constantly falling back, looking at one guy and bolting. He is often times moving through reads and progressions, and his body follows along with him.

 

 

Draft analysts are coming around on the idea that he wants to beat you from the pocket first, tho. I have seen a bunch express this sentiment and more keep popping up.

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

You can just look at his mechanical technique to know he is not a one read and run guy. Its pretty outstanding for a college guy. You can tell the time put in it.

 

He is constantly realigning, readjusting, looking off safeties and has some of the quickest footwork you'll ever see.

His mechanics and ability to snap are near universally loved and pop off the tape. That part of his game would not be allowed the opportunity to flash if he is constantly falling back, looking at one guy and bolting. He is often times moving through reads and progressions, and his body follows along with him.

 

 

Draft analysts are coming around on the idea that he wants to beat you from the pocket first, tho. I have seen a bunch express this sentiment and more keep popping up.

 

We must have watched different cutups. Which ones did you go over?

[DazedSkinsfan]

Maye?? Daniels?? Whoever it may be I'll be happy just simply based on my faith of actual grown-ups making the pick

[actorguy1]

 

 

[Dah-Dee]

I feel like the rap on Daniels going through progressions is based on old facts (i.e., freshman year at ASU) and/or outdated stereotypes on dual threat QBs. 

 

The story of Daniels' work on progressions is pretty well-documented and involves a lot of work/practice over an extended period of time - and including work with some pretty cool tech.

 

Here are a few articles documenting his ... progression. On progressions. Um, yeah.

 

The Athletic (Sept. 2022):  https://theathletic.com/3639165/2022/09/29/lsu-football-jayden-daniels-passing/

SI (Jan. 2023): https://www.si.com/college/lsu/football/tale-of-the-tape-lsu-qb-jayden-daniels-growth-in-2022

The Athletic (Dec. 2023): https://theathletic.com/5121231/2023/12/08/jayden-daniels-lsu-football-ai-technology/

 

For me, personally, none of this eases my post-RG3 terror at the idea of Daniels get crash-dummied out of a career by one Micah Parsons hit. But he's obviously a bright kid and a football junkie obsessed with getting better, so that's good. I think.

[FootballZombie]

39 minutes ago, mistertim said:

We must have watched different cutups. Which ones did you go over?

 

Do the bazillion ones posted in this thread every time his ability is questioned count?

[Voice_of_Reason]

14 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

 

 

Translation: I had no idea how much JJ McCarth’s agent would pay me to report a team had JJ as the second ranked QB. But it was a lot so I did.  

[NOLA2DC]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Watching film and seeing something is not stereotyping.

Obviously we're seeing different film. 

[mh86]

On 2/10/2024 at 1:16 PM, NOLA2DC said:

I agree, and I won't act like I've watched a bunch of college tape. With both guys, Maye and Daniels, all I've seen are the stats and highlights. Has anyone posted the key game vids on the guys? I may be earlier in the thread and I missed it. 

It’s very difficult to say with 100% certainty that a player makes reads or is better than x or y if you’re watching highlights.

Edited February 15 by mh86

[NOLA2DC]

12 minutes ago, mh86 said:

It’s very difficult to say with 100% certainty that a player makes reads or is better than x or y if you’re watching highlights.

I agree but the reality is that none of us do this for a living and the are some people saying both Maye and Daniels are worthy of going number 1 (although the consensus is Williams). I do think there are a lot of stereotypes thrown around with dual-threat guys who look a certain way.  The only valid critique I see is his weight but I guess we're more paranoid because past experiences. 

Edited February 15 by NOLA2DC

[mh86]

8 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

I agree but the reality is that none of us do this for a living and the are some people saying both Maye and Daniels are worthy of going number 1 (although the consensus is Williams). I do think there are a lot of stereotypes thrown around with dual-threat guys who look a certain way.  The only valid critique I see is his weight but I guess we're more paranoid because past experiences. 

We all agree on this. The point was made that he doesn’t often make more than one read. I made it through his all 22 for this year and saw this. He does do it just like he does throw in the middle of the field, but it seems like he wasn’t asked to do it all the time. Just like Mayes accuracy issues, Daniels may have issues that need work here.
 

I’m not trying to come at you like I know what I’m doing, but you were making it out to be a non issue. On top of that when someone asked what cutups you watched you mentioned other people saying it was a non issue. then you replied to him with “obviously we’re seeing different film”, but you haven’t watched the film other than maybe the game days and highlights where he was lighting it up and you were cheering for your team. It’s okay, we all go nuts for our players and teams. I’m a university of Delaware fan, so Joe Flacco is my fav.

 

also, I don’t care who we pick of the QBs. Im going to go crazy for them and buy jerseys anyways. 

Edited February 15 by mh86