The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Est.1974]

21 minutes ago, FrFan said:

Kingsbury was asked what he looks for in a quarterback and joked, “The Chiefs quarterback.”

Kingsbury coached Patrick Mahomes at Texas Tech.

“No. I do think the game as you can see. . . . You watch those guys at the end like when the money is on the table, you’ve got to be able to make some plays with your feet, move around enough to escape a bad play,” Kingsbury said

 

I'm wondering if he's writing off Drake Maye from his list at pick 2 ?

I came to that conclusion off that comment. But it’s still very subjective.

 

Damn, the way Mahomes has taken over this league is wild. I watched some clips earlier of the moment he was drafted, what a move by the Chiefs, he was something like 13-16 as a starter I think.

 

One of the analysts commented - this guy plays outside the structure of the offense, as well as saying, can he learn to win from within the pocket.

 

Interesting comparison to Williams I’d say.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, FrFan said:

I read that he has problems  with his pocket presence and footwork and brings sacks on himself.

"A big problem for a lot of young quarterbacks is how they deal with pressure. Maye had a 19.6% pressure-to-sack rate last season, which is on the higher side of where you would like your quarterback to be. For example, the best quarterbacks in the NFL hover right around a 10-15% rate of turning pressure into sacks. It’s an area Maye will need to improve on to be successful. There are still too many moments of him scrambling into pressure that then turn into sacks."

 

all three take sacks.  But in their defense QBs with mobility tend to get sacked a lot, Russell Wilson as an example, when you got wheels you scramble a bit more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Why would Drake Maye be off based on that description?

 

All three can move.  Now if he said he wants the fastest, that woulld be Daniels.

 

 

 

 

 

He's 6'4" and 230 and you just don't see him taking big hits. 

I'm honestly not sure who I prefer between the two. I want to like the huge, classical pocket passer who already can work the middle of the field. It's hard to argue with how good Daniels was last year, but I thought the same thing about Fields. I will say, I don't think Fields had the same downfield accuracy. Everyone loves Daniels as a runner, but I think my second favorite thing about Daniels is the release. It's such a quick, smooth, compact release, and it is so consistent. Just beautiful. 

 

We are going to keep learning more about these guys as the process goes on. I hope they both throw at the combine. I want to see how they measure. Their interviews and the eval of their football IQ and work ethic is going to be critical. 

 

I think I feel safer with Maye, but I'd be happy with whichever one we settle on. I do think there is still a chance that we offer a big package to move up. Also, everyone keeps referencing Mahommes as the Williams comp. That's like saying someone is going to be Brady or Manning. They better be an Andrew Luck if you're going to say that. I do frequently look at Williams and think his floor is Baker Mayfield with better wheels and arm talent. I can see some parallels in style. And I don't think that would be the worst outcome. 

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I came to that conclusion off that comment. But it’s still very subjective.

 

Damn, the way Mahomes has taken over this league is wild. I watched some clips earlier of the moment he was drafted, what a move by the Chiefs, he was something like 13-16 as a starter I think.

 

One of the analysts commented - this guy plays outside the structure of the offense, as well as saying, can he learn to win from within the pocket.

 

Interesting comparison to Williams I’d say.

 

Color me shocked that Daniels people heard "That must be Jayden Daniels!" in Kingsbury's comments. 

 

He pointed out two QBs who mostly use their mobility to buy time and create downfield passing opportunities when things break down, and went on to specifically state that it doesn't mean you need to be Lamar or Kyler.

 

Quote

"Uh, the Chiefs quarterback," he joked to reporters, alluding to three-time Super Bowl champion Patrick Mahomes. "No, um, I do think the game -- as you can see, you watch those guys, Brock (Purdy) and (Mahomes) -- when money's on the table, you gotta be able to make some plays with your feet, move around enough to escape a bad play. It doesn't mean you gotta run like Lamar (Jackson) or Kyler Murray, but you better be able to move a little bit and buy yourself some time, because the D-line, the rushes, the defense these days are so good."

 

[Skinn]

Mahomes 40 time at the combine was 4.8, Maye has clocked a 4.65. I don't think Maye's speed will be a detriment. 

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

 

He's 6'4" and 230 and you just don't see him taking big hits. 

I'm honestly not sure who I prefer between the two. I want to like the huge, classical pocket passer who already can work the middle of the field. It's hard to argue with how good Daniels was last year, but I thought the same thing about Fields. I will say, I don't think Fields had the same downfield accuracy. Everyone loves Daniels as a runner, but I think my second favorite thing about Daniels is the release. It's such a quick, smooth, compact release, and it is so consistent. Just beautiful. 

 

We are going to keep learning more about these guys as the process goes on. I hope they both throw at the combine. I want to see how they measure. Their interviews and the eval of their football IQ and work ethic is going to be critical. 

 

I think I feel safer with Maye, but I'd be happy with whichever one we settle on. I do think there is still a chance that we offer a big package to move up. Also, everyone keeps referencing Mahommes as the Williams comp. That's like saying someone is going to be Brady or Manning. They better be an Andrew Luck if you're going to say that. I do frequently look at Williams and think his floor is Baker Mayfield with better wheels and arm talent. I can see some parallels in style. And I don't think that would be the worst outcome. 

 

With Daniels, if he could throw off platform as a habit, I'd be sold.  Ditto throwing more tight window throws and throwing more with anticipation.

 

I said the same thing when I evaluated Haskins, I don't care about small samples, i am looking for tendencies.  Most of us played sports and we lean on what we are good at and what habits becomes natural over time.  I am not assured when I can see hey when they do it, they aren't bad it albiet they don't do it much.  When i played soccer I could put some bend on the ball from time to time but it wasn'y my wheelhouse so its not something I considered that I was good at doing.  You tend to be good at doing what you do repeatedly not just on occasion.

 

He has a good release.  Arm is good not great.  But I like that he puts nice air on the deep ball.  I don't like deep balls that are flat.   I love him as a runner.  Not like him, love him on that front.  Except for I need him to learn to slide and avoid contact more.

 

My fear for Daniels is the seas tend to be parted for him in games.  WRs who are studs and are open so you don't have to throw much with antcipation or tight window throws.  His protection was good for the most part so he had time -- yet he still get sacked plenty.  In the NFL, how quickly will he adjust when things get messy?

 

As for Drake Maye, I love him in the pocket.  When his feet have time to settle and he can step into his throws, he's lethal.  He threatens more areas in the field than Daniels.  Part of the reason why I do think he has a shot to be who Kingsbury wants is a big part of the Air Raid is threatening defenses everywhere where they have to defend space. 

 

Off platform, he's IMO either great or sucks, not much in between.  He makes some Mahomes like wow plays.  And then on some plays his accuracy goes to hell because he doesn't realign his body to the target.  

 

He makes some of the most wicked throws in this class.  And then he also is the one who struggles some with first level throws as to his accuracy.  On the 2nd level, he's awesome.  Good deep ball, too. 

 

I like the fact that he's just 21.  A lot of raw talent with Maye. 

 

I think both QBs are exciting for different reasons.  I'd go with Maye but Daniels to me isn't a mile behind. 

Edited February 16 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

J. Brissett do you resign? If you draft Daniels they may want to keep him around as the backup.

58 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah its a bit much.    I saw a post from @UK Skins the other day saying the same.  I am trying hard not to let the over the top nonstop gushing PR campaign sour me on the dude.  Because removing all of that, i genuinely would be stoked if its Maye or Daniels albiet prefer Maye. 

 

If a dude is this level flawless and anyone who mentions any flaw really simply hasn't watched him or doesn't understand football apparently or just hates the dude for no reason -- then for those that love him to that extent, I'd be absolutely crushed if this FO doesn't take him.   I'd think this FO then are a bunch of no-nothing about football buffoons if they don't take this dude.  Peters should be out then from the jump.

 

Personally, I've watched more Maye and Daniels then any players in my lifetime I've watched draft prospects.  I've watched most of the games I've had available to watch give or take about 4 times each.   I am no QB expert to say the least.  But I can hang in here with average layperson in a discussion.  I read Arians book about QBs among other things.  I try to learn about that spot over the years.  It's not easy but I give it a shot. 

 

I've nailed some things about QBs here over the years.  I am nothing special on this front but again I am not a lost puppy in a average discussion with the typical fan on the topic.  Ditto plenty of other people here who I know watched these guys.  Doesn't make us right but we do put in the time.  Heck at this point of the draft season, I am typically much deeper talking about prospects but I've been stuck in quick sand in the QB discussion.  I need to pull out for my own sanity. 

 

As for Daniels, love him as a runner.   As @wit33 remembers like he does, I love myself mobile QBs.  I was on the Kyler Murray train at the time among others.  Love QBs with wheels.   I like his touch on the deep ball.  Decent though not perfect making throws in the flat.  I like what I've read about him as a dude.  All these guys though have some red flags.  I've said to death Drake Maye's red flags even though that's who I want at #2 -- Drake is far from flawless, too.  As to Daniels, my number one concern isn't just him getting hurt because of his slight frame, its that he likes to take off versus throw off platform.  And defenses in the NFL can clamp down on that.  You spy someone especially on the edges and keep him in the pocket and force him to throw.

 

When it comes to mobile QBs, I like them to master throwing off platform.  IMO throwing off platform should be your go to move when flushed in the pocket not taking off.   So when people talk about concerns about his durabilty its especially relevant with Daniels for three reasons.  1.  His frame.  2.  His tendency to take off versus throw off platform.  He also takes his fair share of sacks especially when you collapse the interior.  So when you combine them all, it's a real disclaimer not a BS one, but a real one.  It could work out fine but the concerns are certainly not BS and that people just haven't watched him. 

 

 

 

 

Mahomes had the edges taken away in the S.B. by Bosa and others, while flushing him out out of the pocket, they had a plan and it worked for most of the game.  Andy Reid saved and called the perfect play to win the S.B.   Daniels will see a lot of this most likely. Can Daniels make plays like this in crunch time like Mahomes? He adapted all game took what little they gave him? If they think he is the one they will draft him.

[Est.1974]

22 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Color me shocked that Daniels people heard "That must be Jayden Daniels!" in Kingsbury's comments. 

 

He pointed out two QBs who mostly use their mobility to buy time and create downfield passing opportunities when things break down, and went on to specifically state that it doesn't mean you need to be Lamar or Kyler.

I thought Kingsbury was very guarded and on edge during his press conference. He was questioned on Williams more than once, mentioned Mahomes, then kind of made sure he threw in other QB names to deflect. 

[DWinzit]

Kliff said he wants to be able to run the ball and play action passing.

 

He wants his QB to be the hardest working/studying player on the team.

 

Also wants the QB to be able to move around, escape rushers to buy time and make plays with their feet.

 

All of the top QB's are mobile enough. Some have more experience under center and with play-action. Do we know which ones have the best work ethic?

[NOLA2DC]

10 hours ago, bh32 said:

So you think burrow are the best QB's in NFL  history?

No, but he's the only guy to beat Mahomes when counted. 

[Conn]

58 minutes ago, FrFan said:

I read that he has problems  with his pocket presence and footwork and brings sacks on himself.

"A big problem for a lot of young quarterbacks is how they deal with pressure. Maye had a 19.6% pressure-to-sack rate last season, which is on the higher side of where you would like your quarterback to be. For example, the best quarterbacks in the NFL hover right around a 10-15% rate of turning pressure into sacks. It’s an area Maye will need to improve on to be successful. There are still too many moments of him scrambling into pressure that then turn into sacks."

Daniels for his college career is at almost 25% on this stat btw, if you thought he was better at this. Maye for his career is closer to 18-19%. 
 

edit: SIP beat me to it and brought receipts, damn! 

Edited February 16 by Conn

[NOLA2DC]

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

Daniels for his college career is at almost 25% on this stat btw, if you thought he was better at this. Maye for his career is closer to 18%. 

I think it's common for QBs like Daniels to struggle with early-on pressure because they're too reliant on their legs to get them out of a jam instead of going with the hot read. Ultimately, the coaches and GM will decide the best route, and I'm cool with that.   

Edited February 16 by NOLA2DC

[mistertim]

17 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

All of the top QB's are mobile enough. Some have more experience under center and with play-action. Do we know which ones have the best work ethic?

 

Jayden Daniels. He gets to the facility 4 weeks before practice. Along the way he stops to put out 5 fires, save 12 kittens from trees, and feed 832 homeless people. His teammates love him so much that he had to get several restraining orders. Joe Montana and Tom Brady routinely come to him for leadership advice and have offered to pay him millions to teach them.

Edited February 16 by mistertim

[Conn]

6 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

No, but he's the only guy to beat Mahomes when counted. 

QB’s don’t play each other. Hurts had maybe the best QB performance in a loss that we’ve ever seen in last year’s Super Bowl. Mahomes is inevitable, but it’s a team game. And the sample size for these young AFC QB’s is pretty small. 

[mac8887]

10 hours ago, bh32 said:

So did Tim Tebow..the heisman ain't ****...the best NFL QBs in the NFL didn't win the Heisman...lol

Didn't joe burrow win the heisman at the same school as daniels?

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, Conn said:

QB’s don’t play each other. Hurts had maybe the best QB performance in a loss that we’ve ever seen in last year’s Super Bowl. Mahomes is inevitable, but it’s a team game. And the sample size for these young AFC QB’s is pretty small. 

 

Thank you. I get so sick of this dumb take. People used it relentlessly with He Who Must Not Be Named as well. "HE BEAT TOM BRADY LOLOLOL!"

 

QBs play defenses, not other QBs. Last time I checked, Burrow doesn't play defense.

 

Just now, mac8887 said:

Didn't joe burrow win the heisman at the same school as daniels?

 

The point is that winning the Heisman doesn't really mean anything with regards to success in the NFL.

[NOLA2DC]

14 minutes ago, Conn said:

QB’s don’t play each other. Hurts had maybe the best QB performance in a loss that we’ve ever seen in last year’s Super Bowl. Mahomes is inevitable, but it’s a team game. And the sample size for these young AFC QB’s is pretty small. 

I agree that they are young, and it is a small sample, but I was responding to the Burrow/Heisman comment. Considering how many other QBs Mahomes has beaten (yes it is a team game), to say he beat Mahomes in the playoffs is notable. 

[srtman04]

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

The point is that winning the Heisman doesn't really mean anything with regards to success in the NFL.

 

This.  I'm not sure why we still use this as a standard when so many QB's have busted and they won the Heisman in college.  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

NFL defenders are going to murder the young man. Doubt he makes it to week 1.

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

I agree that they are young, and it is a small sample, but I was responding to the Burrow/Heisman comment. Considering how many other QBs Mahomes has beaten (yes it is a team game), to say he beat Mahomes in the playoffs is notable. 

 

Joe Burrow has never played Patrick Mahomes. (unless they've golfed together or something)

 

He has played the Chief's defense, though.

 

By this logic I could beat Tom Brady as long as my team is filled will 1st team NFL All-Pros and his is filled with high school JV players.

Edited February 16 by mistertim

[redskinss]

23 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Jayden Daniels. He gets to the facility 4 weeks before practice. Along the way he stops to put out 5 fires, save 12 kittens from trees, and feed 832 homeless people. His teammates love him so much that he had to get several restraining orders. Joe Montana and Tom Brady routinely come to him for leadership advice and have offered to pay him millions to teach them.

 

Oh sure but you can praise Maye and it's ok.

 

[mistertim]

Just now, redskinss said:

 

Oh sure but you can praise Maye and it's ok.

 

 

A puppy dies and an angel loses its wings every time Drake Maye has poor footwork.

[BayouBrave86]

5 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

NFL defenders are going to murder the young man. Doubt he makes it to week 1.

Yeah just like the SEC murdered him

 

I’m cracking up because all the Daniels detractors can do is try and respond with sarcastic and “witty” responses with pictures that are 3+ years old. It’s hard to argue against facts so I guess that is all they’re left with. And if you’re letting a few message board posters turn you against the young man, maybe you need to step back and reevaluate some things. 

[Conn]

1 minute ago, BayouBrave86 said:

Yeah just like the SEC murdered him

 

I’m cracking up because all the Daniels detractors can do is try and respond with sarcastic and “witty” responses with pictures that are 3+ years old. It’s hard to argue against facts so I guess that is all they’re left with. And if you’re letting a few message board posters turn you against the young man, maybe you need to step back and reevaluate some things. 

*glances up at username*
 

This is an unbiased source everybody, it checks out. Take notes. 

[mac8887]

 

This is just 3 games, the first hit looks a lot like a jayden daniels impersonation.