All things defense

[wit33]

32 minutes ago, Conn said:

This is poor coaching and lack of buy-in. In year 4. 

Absolutley criminal for the defense to be in the position it is at this point in time. Don’t want to be prisoner of the moment, the defense took over the Cardinal game and righted the ship against Denver, but overall what an abomination. 
 

Im thrilled with the production of the offense and it’s potential moving forward and have no clue what to expect from the defense.

 

Side tangent:

I don’t watch film, so hate going this direction with analysis of relating to players off-the-ball, but maybe it’s time for a shakeup in the secondary and get Hudson some snaps. Want a ball dominant dude to get the ball and attack, the one thing I loved about Landon Collins, so awesome in the run game. Issues on levels, but inexcusable that teams are running against Washington, must dominate in the run game. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by wit33

[Rex Tomb]

4 minutes ago, wit33 said:

with analysis of relating to pampers off the ball

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

47 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Cody Barton - B/C

I’m inclined to go D for Barton and believe it’s a significant contributing factor to how poor our defense is.  Not the only reason, but significant.  Team ran by linebackers, doesn’t know or care what a good linebacker looks like.  Probably the oddest thing about this regime.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m inclined to go D for Barton and believe it’s a significant contributing factor to how poor our defense is.  Not the only reason, but significant.  Team ran by linebackers, doesn’t know or care what a good linebacker looks like.  Probably the oddest thing about this regime.

I wouldn't argue.  I think he probably starts/plays for more than just this team. If he wasn't signed by us, somebody else would have signed him and played him, which is why I put him in the "play for any team/start for some teams." I also think they're doing the annual tradition of "get a guy who's good at this thing and make him do another thing" thing with him. He didn't completely suck in Seattle.  But he does here.  Why is that? I put that on Ron and Jack. 

 

Though it's possible after this year, he gets downgraded to E.

[Redwards]

2 hours ago, skinzplay said:

 

 

Our GM - we all know who that really is - chose him and forced him on this D. That, too, ain't lost on the ownership group.

I hope you're right.  

 

I really hope this ownership group does massive amounts of research on what has transpired here in all aspects, and especially from a personnel aspect under Ron.   Just looking at the 49ers, Eagles, Chiefs, Dolphins of the football world; we are lightyears away from being that kind of team, especially with the current regime.  I'll freaking vomit if any of them are retained in any capacity.  

[Stihl89]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

How many times over the years do I need to keep repeating myself on what the biggest problem with the defense is? It’s the linebackers. 
 

If your backers stink, you’re in trouble. They tie the front to the secondary in every way. If they aren’t good your defense won’t be good. 
 

Linebackers don’t have to be your best players, though it helps if they’re close… they need to be at the very least good on average, though. 
 

Ivan Pace and Jamin Davis would make this defense an entirely different animal. Davis flashes, Pace is solid, both can run and both are aggressive now. Both are decent to good as pass rushers. 

 

Davis lacks some of the instinct and that’s where he will always be a little behind. But combine him with a guy like Pace and it’s an entirely different picture. The D isn’t anywhere near as predictable. Because they are capable blitzers (and we have to be willing to blitz) you free up the DL a little. We have a very major personnel issue at linebacker. We have for years. 
 

Every good pass rusher has a linebacker corps who is at the very least above the mean. 

People act like they are dated. They are just changed in the position wildly. It’s about blitzing and coverage now. This team is terrible on defense because it’s so easy to attack the edges in the run game and coverage over the middle is weak. It’s not difficult. No idea what Ron and Co we’re thinking 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Stihl89

[Stone Cold]

I wanna see quan and Hudson rotate chasing the qb…a la Hassan reddick.  Scheme that jdr.  Let’s do what we gotta to play aggressively downhill…constantly applying pressure.  Move the front four around.  Send the dogs to hunt and see what happens.  We do that and simplify our coverages well inevitably produce more mayhem on d which includes tos and short fields

[Thinking Skins]

 

 

[MartinC]

5 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I wouldn't argue.  I think he probably starts/plays for more than just this team. If he wasn't signed by us, somebody else would have signed him and played him, which is why I put him in the "play for any team/start for some teams." I also think they're doing the annual tradition of "get a guy who's good at this thing and make him do another thing" thing with him. He didn't completely suck in Seattle.  But he does here.  Why is that? I put that on Ron and Jack. 

 

Though it's possible after this year, he gets downgraded to E.

Our scheme and what we ask backers to do is very different to what they do in Seattle. Ron talked about this during preseason. We allow our D line to attack in an up field 1 gap scheme but the backers don’t play 1 gap. They read more and have to play more of a 2 gap depending exactly where the D line go. It asks more of the backers and is probably an adjustment. 
 

Now that should be part of the evaluation on the backers we bring in during free agency - but it’s exactly what you said, sign a player who was at least decent doing something and ask him to do something else.

[MartinC]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

So Percy Butler is starting?

 

Bet the over.

Quan Martin might finally get some defensive snaps.

[redskinss]

3 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Quan Martin might finally get some defensive snaps.

Look at the bright side.

He may look like Ronnie Lott, get 4 interceptions and in the post game presser Ron will be like damn, if I had known he was that good I'd have started him sooner!

[method man]

I believe @KDawg had a strong opinion that you want to use Quan in the box or as a nickel but that deep safety was not necessarily his strong suit (@KDawg correct me if I am wrong on this). If this holds, it wouldn't allow Quan to play to his strengths taking over Forrest's spot unless they rotate Kam from buffalo nickel to Forrest's spot)

[WilberMarshall]

Ron's infatuation with slow linebackers did not end with Jon Bostic.

 

[method man]

21 minutes ago, WilberMarshall said:

Ron's infatuation with slow linebackers did not end with Jon Bostic.

 

Bostic was not slow and Barton is not slow. They may play slower due to ****ty instincts but they are not slow

[Voice_of_Reason]

57 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Quan Martin might finally get some defensive snaps.

[Conn]

Joe Barry and Preston Smith, name a more iconic duo 

[CjSuAvE22]

The lack of talent on defense is why we stink, you can't have crappy linebackers if you want a good defense, its justnot possible I don't care how much talent you have on the defensive line. 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, method man said:

I believe @KDawg had a strong opinion that you want to use Quan in the box or as a nickel but that deep safety was not necessarily his strong suit (@KDawg correct me if I am wrong on this). If this holds, it wouldn't allow Quan to play to his strengths taking over Forrest's spot unless they rotate Kam from buffalo nickel to Forrest's spot)

He may be able to play deep… but we didn’t see much of that ability on “film”. He was most effectively used in a nickel/hybrid role as a cover guy/contain player. 
 

I don’t think you draft him as a deep safety because he just didn’t do a ton of it.

 

Thing is he has speed so if forced into duty there he might be okay? I just think you’re kind of limiting his skill set by playing him deep. 
 

What scares me is the amount of reps Butler has gotten back there while everyone was healthy and how little Quan has been on the field. If Quan had those chops why hasn’t he been on the field? 

 

But on the other hand, I’m pretty sure Stromberg would upgrade our OL and he hasn’t played either. So… here’s hoping. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by KDawg

[RandyHolt]

On 10/9/2023 at 4:09 AM, Panninho said:

 

I agree and didn't like the move. But I also have to wonder, how people can watch our defense and then proceed to watch other games/redzone and not notice that the most obvious difference is probably not individual talent. Yes, our LBs are really bad but Holcomb was struggling here as well. Other teams run their defense so much more creative. They disguise their coverage and rushing plans by crowding the LOS, they bring pressure from all different angles, they run creative stunts and simultaneously keep it somewhat simple for the guys behind to give them the possibility to play fast. They try everything in the book to make it as hard as possible for the opposing QBs. Our defensive scheme seems to be: Rush 4-5 linemen straight into their respective O-line player, hope for them to get home and everyone behind sits back. And it's like that every week. If you do that every once in a while as an adjustment to the opponent -> great. If you do it every week while it ain't working -> really bad.

And honestly, this works primarily against bad teams but never against good QBs and good OCs. We have great athletes on defense, yet we run our defensive in the most conservative way possible. I don't get that at all.

Well said, and it doesn't get said enough. I wish our beat reporters would point that out vs ask a question about Barton struggling but then unable to even mention a source such as PFF. Or heck even the eye test - if JDR asks for the source just say my eyes I watch all the games. Or point out total points allowed and how Mike is the middle of it all and the play callers. Or point out how coverage vs TEs have improved by our LBs before pointing out the struggles to bait him into answering.

On 10/9/2023 at 12:47 PM, Daniel.redskins said:

Just read an article that Washington has given up 16 plays for more than 25 yards, most in the NFL. Absolutely pathetic. I don't see it getting better until we have a true MLB to command the team. 

When a defense is giving up the most plays over 25 yards its not the LBs. Its the scheme.  Our corners are getting scorched. Front 4 not getting enough pressure to let WRs get that deep. Meanwhile everyone notice TEs aren't killing us across the middle this year? Now we could use an upgrade sure but the backers are just doing what is asked. When you see Barton getting burned deep over and over in Tampa 2 sure lets blame the backers.

Edited October 13, 2023 by RandyHolt

[oraphus]

I like listening to Sheehan most of the time .... but man.. he makes some idiotic conclusions from time to time. Like "you cant grade this draft class after 5 games and drafted players are not playing because there are young players ahead of them" that's moronic.

Your 1st rd drafted player should be starting right away and contributing at a high level right away. So far Forbes is a bust, at best he turns in to J Davis and starts contributing at an average level by year 3

Q Martin looked bad in preseason.. but if safety was such a strength.. why draft another safety this high. 

The failure of this draft is more on the FO then on the players.. although players don't look too hot at this point. They drafted a bunch of players that cant help the team win near term.. and even when the current starters are not playing well.. draft class still cant get on the field. What does that say about your draft?! 

[Silvernon]

A lot of it does come down to having a great Mike LBer. I wonder if Jamin can play more Mike and be on the field more. 

 

I'm not expecting much from Butler, but Quan might be pretty good as time goes on. I'm curious to see where he plays and whether FS is a spot for him. I like the idea of having Curl and DFo closer to the LOS. 

 

It's early, but I think the core will continue to play better, but MLB is a serious issue. 

 

Again, it is too easy to play this D when you know there are two weak spots. When the D has one weak spot, you can scheme into it. They will attack Barton, so maybe you can find the right moment to create turnovers. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 10/9/2023 at 11:46 PM, Conn said:

Joe Barry and Preston Smith, name a more iconic duo 

Sharp is often insufferable.

 

But he’s not wrong here. 

[Conn]

I hate to repeat myself, but these guys are so ****ing arrogant in this building with their road-to-nowhere roster, it’s actually insane. If these guys weren’t at least technically qualified to coach at this level I’d call it the Dunning-Kruger effect. But that would be arrogance on my own part, because these guys do know enough to be in their positions (even if they are bottom of the barrel at their own level). 
 

But to have a defense performing this badly, and have this sort of ego on display makes it 10x worse. They really think their decisions are unassailable, that no one is qualified to question the job they’re doing as they tell their locker room to “Do Your Job”. No humility or self-awareness at all. 

It makes me actually dislike these guys instead of just wanting them to be replaced. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

I hate to repeat myself, but these guys are so ****ing arrogant in this building with their road-to-nowhere roster, it’s actually insane. If these guys weren’t at least technically qualified to coach at this level I’d call it the Dunning-Kruger effect. But that would be arrogance on my own part, because these guys do know enough to be in their positions (even if they are bottom of the barrel at their own level). 
 

But to have a defense performing this badly, and have this sort of ego on display makes it 10x worse. They really think their decisions are unassailable, that no one is qualified to question the job they’re doing as they tell their locker room to “Do Your Job”. No humility or self-awareness at all. 

It makes me actually dislike these guys instead of just wanting them to be replaced. 

I’ve been saying this. They think bc they’ve been in the league for awhile that they’re infallible. When in reality they’ve all been mediocre at best for the totality of their careers. Local media always wants to criticize fans for wanting changes. Well, it’s YEAR 4. I feel like the media and coaches get so wrapped up in the minutiae that they miss the big picture. Every single season has played out the same. We are tired of this boring ass movie. 

[Going Commando]

That's not even the right question to be asking Del Rio.  Ask him what the **** he's doing with his safeties.  Ask him why WRs are repeatedly having historic days on him.  Ask him why he designed a triple coverage on Dallas Goedert in the middle of the field on a game ending third down when AJ Brown had 500 yards on him.  Ask him why every QB is having zero problem deciphering all of his coverages pre snap.  Ask him why his hand picked corners are on the bench.