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WFT signs QB Ryan Fitzpatrick to a one-year deal worth $10 million!... Oh, Oh, Oh Fitzmagic... ya knooowwwww!

zCommander

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Florgon79 said:

Quit getting stop gap QBs and draft a franchise QB. I know it sounds impossible but it’s only impossible if you don’t try to draft one. 

Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell, Griffin, Haskins. 
 

They’ve tried 4 times to draft a franchise QB since 2003. They also drafted Cousins and a whole bunch of other developmental guys.  
 

That’s a very high percentage of first round picks on QBs in that timeframe. That’s 1 out of every 4 drafts you’re swinging for a QB.  Toss in the addition al 2 Firsts and Second for the Griffin trade (in addition to the one they used to pick Griffin), and that’s A LOT (6 first and 1 second) of draft picks thrown at the QB position in ~19 years.  
 

The problem isn’t they haven’t tried, it’s that they’ve swung and missed.  

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Thinking Skins

Thinking Skins

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell, Griffin, Haskins. 
 

They’ve tried 4 times to draft a franchise QB since 2003. They also drafted Cousins and a whole bunch of other developmental guys.  

Jumping in late in this but the problem is that thrive always gone after guys who are barely seen as legit. Only exception in RG3. They had a chance to get Rodgers in the Campbell draft but chose Carlos Rogers instead. At the time, I said meh. But then they trade up for Campbell and it's like the obvious choice was too just take Rodgers number 7 because he was supposed to go number 1 or 2. 

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell, Griffin, Haskins. 
 

They’ve tried 4 times to draft a franchise QB since 2003. They also drafted Cousins and a whole bunch of other developmental guys.  
 

That’s a very high percentage of first round picks on QBs in that timeframe. That’s 1 out of every 4 drafts you’re swinging for a QB.  Toss in the addition al 2 Firsts and Second for the Griffin trade (in addition to the one they used to pick Griffin), and that’s A LOT (6 first and 1 second) of draft picks thrown at the QB position in ~19 years.  
 

The problem isn’t they haven’t tried, it’s that they’ve swung and missed.  

 

So should they quit trying then?

 

As far as Fitz, I'm honestly not very surprised because I remember reading about how doctors said he needed surgery but he declined and wanted to try and let it heal on its own. Unfortunately that doesn't work all that often.

Edited by mistertim
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Thinking Skins

Thinking Skins

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Heck, even the fringe guys we got were not guys who were talked about they were never has bens. Gibron Hamden, Jordan Palmer. Sure there's a chance of success with these guys but if rather see us getting 3 or 4 year starters at small schools with arms with our low doing picks. At least give them a chance. I guess you could argue we did that with Brennan and Daniels. But it's such a rare thing.

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

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Just now, Thinking Skins said:

Jumping in late in this but the problem is that thrive always gone after guys who are barely seen as legit. Only exception in RG3. They had a chance to get Rodgers in the Campbell draft but chose Carlos Rogers instead. At the time, I said meh. But then they trade up for Campbell and it's like the obvious choice was too just take Rodgers number 7 because he was supposed to go number 1 or 2. 

Yeah, but let's not let the hindsight of 2021 color the 2004 NFL draft.  23 teams passed on Aaron Rodgers.  And the 49ers blew it big time by picking Smith ahead of Rodgers with the #1 pick.  And then he fell all the way to 24.  In a lot of ways, Rodger's draft situation is a lot like Dan Marino's.  EVERY TEAM with the notable exception of the Redskins passed on Marino.  Elway went #1, Todd Blackledge went 7 to the Chiefs, Jim Kelly went 14 to the Bills, Tom Eason went 15 to the Pats, Ken O'Briend went 24 to the Jets and then Marino went 27 to the Dolphins.  (Washington picked Darrell Green at 28. 2 HOFers at the end of that draft, and bookends as well.  History is cool.

 

Yeah, we should have grabbed Rodgers at #9.  But we weren't even close to the only franchise that screwed that up.  Also, GB picked him and he sat for 4 years behind Favre.  

 

I agree with the rest of the list being fringe first rounders (especially Haskins), but the NFL is littered with QBs picked later in the first round who do have success.

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

So should they quit trying then?

 

As far as Fitz, I'm honestly not very surprised because I remember reading about how doctors said he needed surgery but he declined and wanted to try and let it heal on its own. Unfortunately that doesn't work all that often.

Oh, I wasn't suggesting that at all.  I was just reacting to the fact that it's not like they haven't tried.  They have tried.  They've just sucked at trying.  

 

But I think you have to keep taking swings at the tree until you knock it down.  The original post basically said "stop signing stop-gap guys and try and draft a franchise QB."  

 

And my point is that they have tried to do that.  They've just done it badly.  But never said they should stop..

 

(though I think they should strongly consider a proven top-5 vet if one is available. Because drafting/developing hasn't exactly worked here.  I think we'd do better with the Tampa method than the Bills method, but you can debate it either way.)

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Thinking Skins

Thinking Skins

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

agree with the rest of the list being fringe first rounders (especially Haskins), but the NFL is littered with QBs picked later in the first round who do have success.

No need to tell me about finding late round gems. But I just think it goes against the original argument that we do it often. We tried for Sanchez but didn't. And one argument that repeats itself on here is whether a team like the Jets of old is what a young QB needs to succeed, defense and a running game and limited depending on the QB. That allows a young QB to develop and not make mistakes. But also you're not seeing him shine. Plus it's a lot harder to have 23 other positions right than just having a really good QB. 

 

But I'm feeling like we see that we need a QB. The question is will Snyder pick him cause if so, I feel like we'll get somebody with arm strength and not much else. Hopefully they'll be somebody who is a hard worker because we are that's not something Snyder cares about.

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

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55 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I think about what I just posted and how true it is. George, Campbell, Haskins, RG3 all had rocket arms. Accuracy? Reading defenses? Mobility? But they had arms. How was Sanchez's arm?

You forgot Ramsey, who also had a big arm.

 

Ramsey is the one which I really always wonder about.  He was victim of being coached by Sourrier, who didn’t want him (he wanted his ex-gators) and suffered from post traumatic spurrier induced get your QB killed syndrome.  And then Gibbs came in and wanted a veteran.  I have no idea what would have happened if Ramsey had been drafted by a competent coaching staff who was committed to him and developed him.  Maybe it turns out the same, but maybe not.  Of all the QBs we’ve drafted, he really was in the worst, or tied for the worst with Haskins, situation.  
 

Haskins also was drafted by Snyder fir a coach who didn’t want him.  But He was given an opportunity by Ron to basically have a do-over rookie year and his immaturity got the better of him. 
 

Sanchez had an NFL arm.  It wasn’t a rocket, but he has the ability to make all the throws.  He also had really good mobility.  
 

The problem with Sanchez was his ability to process information.  Which is tough to tell coming out of college.

 

It’s true that Dan loves a QB with a big arm.

 

I do think Ron will be able to pick his QB next season if he likes one.  I don’t think Dan is going to overrule him. At least I hope.  But who the hell really knows. 

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mistertim

mistertim

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42 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You forgot Ramsey, who also had a big arm.

 

Ramsey is the one which I really always wonder about.  He was victim of being coached by Sourrier, who didn’t want him (he wanted his ex-gators) and suffered from post traumatic spurrier induced get your QB killed syndrome.  And then Gibbs came in and wanted a veteran.  I have no idea what would have happened if Ramsey had been drafted by a competent coaching staff who was committed to him and developed him.  Maybe it turns out the same, but maybe not.  Of all the QBs we’ve drafted, he really was in the worst, or tied for the worst with Haskins, situation.  
 

Haskins also was drafted by Snyder fir a coach who didn’t want him.  But He was given an opportunity by Ron to basically have a do-over rookie year and his immaturity got the better of him. 
 

Sanchez had an NFL arm.  It wasn’t a rocket, but he has the ability to make all the throws.  He also had really good mobility.  
 

The problem with Sanchez was his ability to process information.  Which is tough to tell coming out of college.

 

It’s true that Dan loves a QB with a big arm.

 

I do think Ron will be able to pick his QB next season if he likes one.  I don’t think Dan is going to overrule him. At least I hope.  But who the hell really knows. 

 

I think most coaches also love a QB with a big arm as well. The problem with Dan is that he's so incompetent when it comes to football that he values that over everything else and has no clue what other things are incredibly important in a QB.

 

Good coaches love a big arm, but only if it's part of a larger package that includes high football IQ, accuracy, attention to detail, great work ethic, good leadership qualities, etc.

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CobraCommander

CobraCommander

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell, Griffin, Haskins. 
 

They’ve tried 4 times to draft a franchise QB since 2003. They also drafted Cousins and a whole bunch of other developmental guys.  
 

That’s a very high percentage of first round picks on QBs in that timeframe. That’s 1 out of every 4 drafts you’re swinging for a QB.  Toss in the addition al 2 Firsts and Second for the Griffin trade (in addition to the one they used to pick Griffin), and that’s A LOT (6 first and 1 second) of draft picks thrown at the QB position in ~19 years.  
 

The problem isn’t they haven’t tried, it’s that they’ve swung and missed.  

We didn’t try last draft. We picked up a journeyman  37 year old and drafted a terrible linebacker. 

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Ghost of

Ghost of

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Posted
On 10/24/2021 at 11:08 AM, Voice_of_Reason said:

You forgot Ramsey, who also had a big arm.

 

Ramsey is the one which I really always wonder about.  He was victim of being coached by Sourrier, who didn’t want him (he wanted his ex-gators) and suffered from post traumatic spurrier induced get your QB killed syndrome.  And then Gibbs came in and wanted a veteran.  I have no idea what would have happened if Ramsey had been drafted by a competent coaching staff who was committed to him and developed him.  

"this kid is incredible" gushed an announcer after he was zinging it around the field and leading a comeback.  Ramsey seemed to have a partial magic touch and should have been the starter in the playoffs in 2005 when Brunell was obviously hurt (in the game where Ramsey came in and led the team to a win, and then he won against SF the next game) or at least by the Seattle game.  Brunell was throwing around beach balls by then and Gibbs blew what small chance we had of advancing on a bum-knee QB who simply wasn't the same after he got hurt vs the Giants.

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El Mexican

El Mexican

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/24/2021 at 9:14 AM, Voice_of_Reason said:

The problem isn’t they haven’t tried, it’s that they’ve swung and missed.  

 

Strangely enough, Shannahan's strategy has been the only trully efective one during the last 20 years.

 

You need to draft TWO potential starters at QB because you need a fail-safe.

 

History showed Shanny was right in his approach when--even during RG3's magic season--Cousin's came in and won some games for us.

 

We have NOT followed this approach since.

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