The Official ES 2021 Free Agency Thread / Tracker Fitzpatrick, Curtis Samuel, William Jackson, LB Mayo, C Larsen WR Humphries, CB D. Roberts, KR D. Carter , LT Charles Leno, S Bobby McCain signed

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Although I argued a bit about the timing of releasing Moses (and I could see it both ways), I’m right there with you that it looks like the team is looking long term and really focusing on roster building, youth, and managing the cap and draft in such a way that we can re-sign our own and afford to let guys walk.  

One cool thing for me is that we actually took advantage of the draft depth.  It was a good group of oline in the first 2-3 rounds, and we got a good one.  Wr depth was great and we landed 2 (arguably very good value for both).  And on the flip side, DE and Rb wasn’t a great group and we didn’t force picks there.

 

 

Agree.  I'd add the LTs tend to play well into their 30s.  If Leno plays well maybe he's the solution over the longer haul with Cosmi holding the RT spot?  Then you juxtapose that with Moses talking about retirement last season and playing a spot that's easier to land a replacement for.  Plus Moses had almost no guaranteed money left on his contract for the next two years so you release him with just about no financial pain, and all gain just about. 

 

From what's been said I don't get the impression that there is bad blood or there is some subplot behind the scenes.  Having said that its impossible to know one way or another.  However, Rivera tends to be fairly honest in his interviews.  Yeah he will do some coach speak like any other coach but usually stuff drips out.   The behind the scenes story about Trent's discussions with Ron ultimately leaked.   The Haskins stuff leaked big time -- heck Rivera didn't hide what he thought of Haskins and why he was let go.  If there is some odd subplot that we don't know about Moses, I figure it will come out soon. 

 

Based thus far on what I've heard I doubt its anything different than what it appears.   Heck the Bears just did the same thing.  They drafted Jenkins.  They released Leno?  Why?  It seems like money-cap reasons.  This stuff happens all around the league all the time after the draft.   Seems like its the same rodeo with Moses.  But if there is some subplot to this, it will come out in all likelihood. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[skinny21]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  I'd add the LTs tend to play well into their 30s.  If Leno plays well maybe he's the solution over the longer haul with Cosmi holding the RT spot?  Then you juxtapose that with Moses talking about retirement last season and playing a spot that's easier to land a replacement for.  Plus Moses had almost no guaranteed money left on his contract for the next two years so you release him with just about no financial pain, and all gain just about. 

 

From what's been said I don't get the impression that there is bad blood or there is some subplot behind the scenes.  Having said that its impossible to know one way or another.  However, Rivera tends to be fairly honest in his interviews.  Yeah he will do some coach speak like any other coach but usually stuff drips out.   The behind the scenes story about Trent's discussions with Ron ultimately leaked.   The Haskins stuff leaked big time -- heck Rivera didn't hide what he thought of Haskins and why he was let go.  If there is some odd subplot that we don't know about Moses, I figure it will come out soon. 

 

Based thus far on what I've heard I doubt its anything different than what it appears.   Heck the Bears just did the same thing.  They drafted Jenkins.  They released Leno?  Why?  It seems like money-cap reasons.  This stuff happens all around the league all the time after the draft.   Seems like its the same rodeo with Moses.  But if there is some subplot to this, it will come out in all likelihood. 

Yeah, I don’t get the impression there’s much of a subplot, if any.  Future cap (to roll over, or to use for Allen or even Scherff), retirement talk, Moses’ penalties or nagging injuries - any and all could have played a part, but that’s separate from a bad blood type of deal.  Of course, I suppose it depends on how one defines ‘sub plot’.

 

Also wouldn’t have carried Moses’ contract into the season as a backup.  To me, (as I’ve said) it was a timing thing.  Do you bring Moses into camp, let him compete with Leno at LT (long shot, but if he won, his contract looks good and Leno’s isn’t too bad for a quality backup) or serve as insurance in case Cosmi or Leno sustain a camp injury.  You also have a better chance at trading him if a team loses a starting tackle.  

Or, do you cut him to give him ample time to find a new team, while also giving your remaining tackles more reps.  

 

My overall point was just that I didn’t see as a cut and dry, black and white situation.  Seemed to me there was somewhat significant gray area/nuance (some of which I didn’t address).  I’m cool with it though - excited about Cosmi, hoping Leno is a decent upgrade, and I’m cool w/ Lucas as our swing tackle (not writing off Charles, but I’m not sure he’s there yet.  As a G/T though, I like his potential).

Edited May 26, 2021 by skinny21

[Koolblue13]

I dont care about Moses at all. Old regime, getting older, poor value and have a replacement and depth. 

[Dark Acre]

6 hours ago, London Kev said:

I seem to remember that we gave it up in the early 80s, I could be wrong though.

Hey, at least I'm within a decade, much smaller error than 1900 miles.  Probably was 1982.  Weird how Canada gains independence and then starts losing hockey teams.

[Ball Security]

1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

If I remember correctly, Moses was a pain in that whenever the offense got rolling, he'd have a penalty of some kind like mostly holding, which put us back major yards. It didn't get any better over his years of play. 

 

And did anyone pick him up yet, like Christian was?

Moses hasn’t been signed yet, but I understand that Denver is looking into him.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Silvernon]

Wow. $208M.

 

That'll be huge for this team.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Yeah, I don’t get the impression there’s much of a subplot, if any.  Future cap (to roll over, or to use for Allen or even Scherff), retirement talk, Moses’ penalties or nagging injuries - any and all could have played a part, but that’s separate from a bad blood type of deal.  Of course, I suppose it depends on how one defines ‘sub plot’.

 

Also wouldn’t have carried Moses’ contract into the season as a backup.  To me, (as I’ve said) it was a timing thing.  Do you bring Moses into camp, let him compete with Leno at LT (long shot, but if he won, his contract looks good and Leno’s isn’t too bad for a quality backup) or serve as insurance in case Cosmi or Leno sustain a camp injury.  You also have a better chance at trading him if a team loses a starting tackle.  

Or, do you cut him to give him ample time to find a new team, while also giving your remaining tackles more reps.  

 

My overall point was just that I didn’t see as a cut and dry, black and white situation.  Seemed to me there was somewhat significant gray area/nuance (some of which I didn’t address).  I’m cool with it though - excited about Cosmi, hoping Leno is a decent upgrade, and I’m cool w/ Lucas as our swing tackle (not writing off Charles, but I’m not sure he’s there yet.  As a G/T though, I like his potential).

 

OK, yeah to me it seems simple.  But who knows?   I'd agree if Moses was seen as a strong option at LT but got doubts that would be the case.  Moses by some accounts didn't play well at LT. 

 

 

 

 

As some who cover the team have said what made the timing play out in all likelihood the way it did was the convergence of Cosmi being drafted, their coaching staff being high on him, and Leno being released.    The Bears did the exact same thing we did ironically.  They drafted Jenkins, released Leno.    We drafted Cosmi and signed Leno and released Christian and Moses.

 

Plenty of teams do this routinely after a draft.  This team generally doesn't.  I'd gather in part because we didn't have the depth to do so in the past.  Even after this move we got arguably one of the better swing veteran tackles in the league.  Plus we got Charles who apparently can play both guard and tackle.  So the depth remains good IMO. 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[JSSkinz]

Ew, I was expecting to see a higher cap ceiling than the $208M.

 

 

[actorguy1]

1 minute ago, JSSkinz said:

Ew, I was expecting to see a higher cap ceiling than the $208M.

 

 

 

[FootballZombie]

@actorguy1

 

 

I get the NFL angle, but how is this a smart move for players? I'd love me some overbloated contract that grossly out-pays my performance.

 

[CommDownMan]

Need to click on 2022 tab, but you can add 5mill to this guess.

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

Would be sitting at ~60 mill without roll over (~77.5 mill with rollover, but we know some of that will be used).

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/washington-football-team/

Collins has opening here if this year doesn't go well (add 6.6 back)

Flowers no guaranteed (add 10 mill)

 

Those only 2 minuses I see making any substantial difference.  Maybe a few ~1 mill guys, but those differences end up minor.

 

Could see additions to Allen, Schreff at some point, but give or take 70 mill is a fair guess.

2 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

@actorguy1

 

 

I get the NFL angle, but how is this a smart move for players? I'd love me some overbloated contract that grossly out-pays my performance.

 

 

I wonder if the negotiated for 2022, 2023, 2024 minimums.  In the event of COVID slow down they know the increase will continue vs big one year and then flat.  Who knows, but you'd have to assume they didn't simply agreed to smaller without future potential.

[terpfan]

23 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Ew, I was expecting to see a higher cap ceiling than the $208M.

 

 

Lower cap is probably good for us since we’re near the top of the list in terms of cap space. It’s all relative. 

[JSSkinz]

7 minutes ago, terpfan said:

Lower cap is probably good for us since we’re near the top of the list in terms of cap space. It’s all relative. 

Maybe, but the bills are coming due, I didn't expect the $252M cap ceiling that league was planning on implementing for the 2021 season pre COVID but I was hoping for $225M.

 

We should be able to get Allen and Terry done prior to 2023 and then focus on Sweat and Payne the following season.

 

I just want to see this FO get these deals wrapped up sooner than later, that 5th year is a dangerous tool.

 

 

28 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

I wonder if the negotiated for 2022, 2023, 2024 minimums.  In the event of COVID slow down they know the increase will continue vs big one year and then flat.  Who knows, but you'd have to assume they didn't simply agreed to smaller without future potential.

I have the same questions, is this a "lets see what happens with full stadiums and we'll re-adjust after the season" or is this set in stone.

 

 

[Vanguard]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I dont care about Moses at all. Old regime, getting older, poor value and have a replacement and depth. 

How do you really feel?😬

[terpfan]

4 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Maybe, but the bills are coming due, I didn't expect the $252M cap ceiling that league was planning on implementing for the 2021 season pre COVID but I was hoping for $225M.

 

We should be able to get Allen and Terry done prior to 2023 and then focus on Sweat and Payne the following season.

 

I just want to see this FO get these deals wrapped up sooner than later, that 5th year is a dangerous tool.

 

 

The only major jump next year is likely to be Allen. We will be able to do that and still have PLENTY of cap left over for other mid-level FA signings (TE,OT,LB) or even a big splash at QB.

 

It's likely the cap will jump again for 2023 when extensions for guys like Terry and Payne would hit (and Sweat's 5th year option).  I imagine we'll probably be pretty conservative again in terms of new signings next offseason in order to re-sign those guys... With the exception of maybe a big time QB if one becomes available via trade.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[CobraCommander]

19 hours ago, carex said:

 

if a guy has enough potential you do what you have to to develop him

But does he have potential? Or is he just a big body with muscles? Someone saw "potential" in him in regards to basketball and that turned out poorly. It's a Hail Mary. Nothing lost if he doesn't pan out. 

[CommDownMan]

I do think this news about the Cap will generate movement towards long terms deals (if we do in fact make them).

 

Scherff with FT is 9.8% of cap.  9.8% of 208 is 20.5mill per.  Maybe that's how they'll negotiate.  If nothing else, makes sense for Allen and Scherff to wait for this value to drop.

[CommDownMan]

2 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

Ew, I was expecting to see a higher cap ceiling than the $208M.

 

 

 

 

Interesting chain if you read through.  Talking about 17 mill that wasn't payed in player benefits.  They needed to pay back by 2023, but left open possibility of paying back sooner.  That added money will likely be factored in somewhere between now and 2023 (ie lower cap 2022, higher 2023). 

 

Cap projection pre-COVID was about 218mill for 2022 (so 10 less).  Might be "caught back up" by 2023 and gives a year to see what happens post COVID and new TV contracts.

[bowhunter]

1 hour ago, jsharrin55 said:

I do think this news about the Cap will generate movement towards long terms deals (if we do in fact make them).

 

Scherff with FT is 9.8% of cap.  9.8% of 208 is 20.5mill per.  Maybe that's how they'll negotiate.  If nothing else, makes sense for Allen and Scherff to wait for this value to drop.

I was about to post the same thinking. Perhaps it's time for contracts to include % of cap in their verbiage. That neither gets screwed with unpredictable cap numbers.

[CommanderInTheRye]

8 hours ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Hey, at least I'm within a decade, much smaller error than 1900 miles.  Probably was 1982.  Weird how Canada gains independence and then starts losing hockey teams.

 

"Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in." 

 

You couldn't resist sticking the knife in one more time and then twisting it a bit to show your sincerity.  😂

 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by TrancesWithWolves

[CommanderInTheRye]

7 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

Ew, I was expecting to see a higher cap ceiling than the $208M.

 

 

 

Didn't the NFL voluntarily agree not to let the 2021 cap be as low as they could have made it given the drastic decline in revenue due to covid?

 

In other words they essentially smoothed in the cap decrease (as a landlord might do with a rent increase) to mitigate it's effect on both players and teams over time.

 

Perhaps the not quite as high as expected 2022 cap ceiling is similarly something of a concession between both parties (Player's Union and Managemrnt)  done for the greater longterm good of the industry.

 

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not by any means a cap guru or professing to understand the intricacies of cap management. I'm postulating a hypothetical for purposes iof discussion rather than making a statement of fact. 

[Die Hard]

On 5/25/2021 at 5:56 PM, TrancesWithWolves said:

But my heart is all in on this Brazilian athletic freak oozing with desire but bereft of know how.

 

[Die Hard]

Sorry, I just felt like piling on. 🙂