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Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

LetThePointsSoar

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Idaho fan

Idaho fan

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4 hours ago, -JB- said:

I think fans who want Fitzpatrick to start are really not understanding how painful it is to watch him play when he’s going through his guaranteed stretch of awful play.  

Ahh yes.  but then the guaranteed stretch of big yards and points can be glorious lol.  Its a roller coaster ride and I think most realistic fans know this and know Fitz isn't the long term answer.  My hope is that Ron has some influence on him and can limit his desire to force things.  ie flatten the up and down pattern he is known for.  I think if TH was the better QB who gave us the best chance to win Ron would be starting him.  And if Fitz comes out and kills the team with mistakes history will indeed repeat and the other QBs will get their chance.  Bottom line is it will likely be a bumpy ride until a legit QB is drafted or brought in via FA.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Posted (edited)
On 8/15/2021 at 4:43 PM, mistertim said:

 

One thing I did notice was that Heinicke does at times seem to feel pressure too early and bail. It doesn't always end badly because he's pretty good when off-schedule. But it also does lead to the occasional throw off his back foot which isn't a good thing. It would also be good to see him stand in the pocket more and go through progressions.

 

I've said this in other threads there is nothing for me at least that beats watching players in camp because you can see them throw again and again and again and back to back with the other QBs.  For me it really gives a good window into their strengths and weaknesses especially in terms of accuracy.   And I got into more detail about this in other threads.  I am afraid to do it on this thread, considering some of the adultation he gets, but i'll be brave. :ols:

 

This is my take on Heinicke from watching practices along with the preseason.

 

The Good

A.  The dude is Russell Wilson level good when it comes to scrambiling and making plays on the move.  That's his calling card IMO.  Fun to watch. 

B.  He definitely has some gamer qualities to his play that I like

C.  He's self critical and not delusional about what he can do and struggles with.  I think that's a critical quality of any player to be successful -- self awareness.

D.  He works hard

 

The Bad:

A.  Accuracy is inconsistent.  it's good but far from great.   Heinicke himself admitted he needs to improve it on some fronts. 

B.  Arm strength is "meh".

C.  In practice I saw him stare at receivers a lot.  I haven't rewatched the preseason games to see if he does so in games.

D.  Even his coaches have admitted (including his old ODU one who worships him it seems) he has to show he can stay healthy.

 

What I like about Heinicke is he admits to his weakenesses and seems determined to work on them.  If I had to pick one thing to challenge that some among the Heincike hive have said, don't recall if it was said on this thread or another is that the dude is super accurate.  I've seen enough to say that's not true.  His accuracy isn't bad but its far from special IMO. 

 

Overall, I like him, don't love him.  I like his personality and style of play.  Seeing what i've seen, he doesn't hit me as the savior at QB but you never know.  I don't rule him out.  Watching him throw back to back with Fitz a lot -- Fitz IMO is better as to manipulating defenses with his eyes and puts more velocity on his throws.   Their accuracy in practice was oddly similar, with Fitz slightly sharper.  They both at times were on fire and then all of a sudden would throw a few that were wild.   Fitz plays with more moxie as far as throwing the ball down the field -- though Heinicke does it too.  Heinicke has more moxie as far as scrambiling and sacrificing his body although Fitz has some moxie on that front, too. 

 

If I were a betting man, I think we end up looking for a QB in 2022 but you never know?  I am not rooting for one and against another.  I am rooting for both.  Obviously there is more upside if Heinicke works out considering he's much younger.  

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mistertim

mistertim

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Posted

Something I found interesting and a little surprising about Heinicke so far this preseason is that he seems to be checking the ball down a fair amount. Last season he seemed to have more of a gunslinger mentality and tried to push the ball down the field more...or at least that's why my eyes and brain tell me. I wonder if that's a result of him just playing a bit more conservative in general so he can limit potential mistakes?

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Chris 44

Chris 44

Posted
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5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Something I found interesting and a little surprising about Heinicke so far this preseason is that he seems to be checking the ball down a fair amount. Last season he seemed to have more of a gunslinger mentality and tried to push the ball down the field more...or at least that's why my eyes and brain tell me. I wonder if that's a result of him just playing a bit more conservative in general so he can limit potential mistakes?

I think the fact that he has a "guaranteed" job this year and isnt out trying to make a play every single snap plays into that. Last year he was playing "to win games in way he knew how" and possibly didn't have the expectation of being a bona-fide NFL QB with a full training camp etc. behind him? No expectations last year gave him that leeway, this year he is being asked to complement the entire team and like you said not make the mistakes that could hurt the team.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mistertim said:

Something I found interesting and a little surprising about Heinicke so far this preseason is that he seems to be checking the ball down a fair amount. Last season he seemed to have more of a gunslinger mentality and tried to push the ball down the field more...or at least that's why my eyes and brain tell me. I wonder if that's a result of him just playing a bit more conservative in general so he can limit potential mistakes?

 

He struck me the same way in practice.  Fitz would throw the ball down the field more.   Seems like Heinicke becomes a different player when he's on the move.  I wonder if him being short is part of it?  Some say the shorter QBs see better when they roll out of the pocket some because its easier for them to see passing lanes.  Heinicke's moxie seems to increase both as a runner and as a passer I noticed when he rolls out of the pocket, especially if its toward the right.  

 

If I am a defensive coordinator I'd game plan against him by trying to keep him contained in the pocket -- have the defense cheat some on the edges especially on Heinicke's right.

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ODU AGGIE

ODU AGGIE

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He struck me the same way in practice.  Fitz would throw the ball down the field more.   Seems like Heinicke becomes a different player when he's on the move.  I wonder if him being short is part of it?  Some say the shorter QBs see better when they roll out of the pocket some because its easier for them to see passing lanes.  Heinicke's moxie seems to increase both as a runner and as a passer I noticed when he rolls out of the pocket, especially if its toward the right.  

 

If I am a defensive coordinator I'd game plan against him by trying to keep him contained in the pocket -- have the defense cheat some on the edges especially on Heinicke's right.

Shhh

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Any camp eyes know how close Heinicke came to taking the starter job ?

Maybe not close as in, being strongly considered by the Coach, but close as far as earning it performance-wise, if you know what I mean ?

 

I wasn't at camp but I remember reading plenty of reports that both Fitz and Heinicke had up days and down days. So I'm guessing the needle probably didn't really move that much one way or the other.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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10 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Any camp eyes know how close Heinicke came to taking the starter job ?

Maybe not close as in, being strongly considered by the Coach, but close as far as earning it performance-wise, if you know what I mean ?

 

Most of the reporters there basically said

 

A.  Heinicke looked better in mini camp

B.  Fitz looked better and distinctly so in camp after minicamp

C.  Preseason games tough to tell considering Fitz barely played, maybe an edge to Heinicke

 

Beat guys harped that there was never really any serious competition, it was Fitz's job to lose and it never felt like he was in danger to lose it.

 

As for the practices I watched, I'd give the nod to Fitz in terms of accuracy.  I came away from camp being slightly less impressed with both QBs than I was before camp.   My main issue for both is their accuracy was good but far from great.  To use a baseball analogy, they both  could look great for the first 4 innings and you think they are shut out level pitching studs, then all of a sudden out of nowhere, they get wild and give up 3 runs, and then settle down again. 

 

 

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Malapropismic Depository

Malapropismic Depository

Posted
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39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

To use a baseball analogy, they both  could look great for the first 4 innings and you think they are shut out level pitching studs, then all of a sudden out of nowhere, they get wild and give up 3 runs, and then settle down again. 

 

 

Great analogy.

It was so good I laughed to myself, then remembered I probably wouldn't be laughing if this happened in a regular season WFT game 😂

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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16 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Great analogy.

It was so good I laughed to myself, then remembered I probably wouldn't be laughing if this happened in a regular season WFT game 😂

 

lol, yeah its the best analogy that hit me.  The cool thing about camp is you can watch them throw over and over and over again so you get a sense of their accuracy.  I wasn't a Haskins guy before that draft but seeing his lack of accuracy in camp years back really made me sour more on him especially after the work ethic concerns cropped up.   Neither Fitz or Heinicke looked bad the way Haskins did.  The odd thing about both of them is they would get super hot then all of a sudden out of nowhere super cold.  Heinicke in the practices I watched was worse on that front but they both had some really bad patches in the mix of the good.

 

My lasting impression from those practices:

 

A.  Fitz will live up to his image.  I still think more good games than bad games but I could see some lemon moments in the mix.   I still like the signing but am little less high on it after watching him throw a lot.  But little is the operative word.  I expected some inconsistency from him but saw a little more than I expected. But overall I think he will be an improvement over Alex and the other recent QBs. 

 

B.  As for Heinicke, I didn't really have that many preconceptions about him before hand.  After watching him throw a lot, I can see why he bounced around the league some.  Accuracy is good -- not great.  Not much zip on his throws but he's not as bad as Colt McCoy was on that front.  I think he's at his best as a gamer evading pressure and making plays on the move.

 

Both though come off as really good dudes.  Self-aware.  High intangibles. 

 

 

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Malapropismic Depository

Malapropismic Depository

Posted
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On 8/21/2021 at 6:08 PM, petey hodge said:

One advantage about TH’s short stature, that many may have overlooked… he can easily hand it off to 5-7” Patterson.  
 

🤣

 

Zero fumbled handoffs in preseason, babee

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

lol, yeah its the best analogy that hit me.  The cool thing about camp is you can watch them throw over and over and over again so you get a sense of their accuracy.  I wasn't a Haskins guy before that draft but seeing his lack of accuracy in camp years back really made me sour more on him especially after the work ethic concerns cropped up.   Neither Fitz or Heinicke looked bad the way Haskins did.  The odd thing about both of them is they would get super hot then all of a sudden out of nowhere super cold.  Heinicke in the practices I watched was worse on that front but they both had some really bad patches in the mix of the good.

 

My lasting impression from those practices:

 

A.  Fitz will live up to his image.  I still think more good games than bad games but I could see some lemon moments in the mix.   I still like the signing but am little less high on it after watching him throw a lot.  But little is the operative word.  I expected some inconsistency from him but saw a little more than I expected. But overall I think he will be an improvement over Alex and the other recent QBs. 

 

B.  As for Heinicke, I didn't really have that many preconceptions about him before hand.  After watching him throw a lot, I can see why he bounced around the league some.  Accuracy is good -- not great.  Not much zip on his throws but he's not as bad as Colt McCoy was on that front.  I think he's at his best as a gamer evading pressure and making plays on the move.

 

Both though come off as really good dudes.  Self-aware.  High intangibles. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, good insights.

Sounds like Rivera had his mind made up all along, that Fitz would be starter, barring injury.

And sounds like Heinicke is a rich-man's Colt McCoy 😀

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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21 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

Thanks, good insights.

Sounds like Rivera had his mind made up all along, that Fitz would be starter, barring injury.

And sounds like Heinicke is a rich-man's Colt McCoy 😀

 

I think better than Colt, so I'd agree with the rich man's line.  Heinicke to me looks Russell Wilson level good as far as elusiveness in the pocket, scrambling away from pressure and making plays on the move when things breakdown.  He doesn't IMO though have Wilson's arm or accuracy.    

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