Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[mistertim]

11 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

How many times has he stepped on an NFL field.....and don't count the illegal mashing he got at the Panthers game. You can't hold him accountable for getting his ass stomped illegally.

 

"Don't count this one" is silly. I assume you're talking about his elbow injury when he was on the Panthers and was playing against ATL?

 

Just because there was a flag on the play doesn't mean that was the cause of his injury. If you watch the play it was flagged as a low hit but that had nothing to do with why he was injured (you'd have a point if it ended up being an ankle or knee injury).

 

He got tackled/tripped up by the DT and then when he fell he landed like pretty much anyone who is tackled/tripped up...on his side/elbow. But that landing on his elbow injured it. There was nothing crazy about how he fell. 

 

 

[tmandoug1]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

"Don't count this one" is silly. I assume you're talking about his elbow injury when he was on the Panthers and was playing against ATL?

 

Just because there was a flag on the play doesn't mean that was the cause of his injury. If you watch the play it was flagged as a low hit but that had nothing to do with why he was injured (you'd have a point if it ended up being an ankle or knee injury).

 

He got tackled/tripped up by the DT and then when he fell he landed like pretty much anyone who is tackled/tripped up...on his side/elbow. But that landing on his elbow injured it. There was nothing crazy about how he fell. 

 

 

Point taken....so lets do this. If Heinicke is better let him start the season and when he gets hurt we can insert Fitzpatrick. That will make me happy and we can stop countering each other, and yes I know thats the purpose of the forum.🤣🤣🤣

[ODU AGGIE]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

"Don't count this one" is silly. I assume you're talking about his elbow injury when he was on the Panthers and was playing against ATL?

 

Just because there was a flag on the play doesn't mean that was the cause of his injury. If you watch the play it was flagged as a low hit but that had nothing to do with why he was injured (you'd have a point if it ended up being an ankle or knee injury).

 

He got tackled/tripped up by the DT and then when he fell he landed like pretty much anyone who is tackled/tripped up...on his side/elbow. But that landing on his elbow injured it. There was nothing crazy about how he fell. 

 

 

TM, the injury was a direct result of the illegal low hit. If he does not get that hit, he does not go down and injure his elbow. It truly is that simple. I suspect we could go on about this all day and twice on Sunday, and we will not really solve anything. I do believe we will get to see TH on the field quite a bit this season. Time will tell if the injury concerns are validated or not. Cheers!

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

TM, the injury was a direct result of the illegal low hit. If he does not get that hit, he does not go down and injure his elbow. It truly is that simple. I suspect we could go on about this all day and twice on Sunday, and we will not really solve anything. I do believe we will get to see TH on the field quite a bit this season. Time will tell if the injury concerns are validated or not. Cheers!

It won't be on Sundays, because if TH is on the field, he'll get hurt and come off. Again and again, like every time he's been on the field.

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

TM, the injury was a direct result of the illegal low hit. If he does not get that hit, he does not go down and injure his elbow. It truly is that simple. I suspect we could go on about this all day and twice on Sunday, and we will not really solve anything. I do believe we will get to see TH on the field quite a bit this season. Time will tell if the injury concerns are validated or not. Cheers!

 

That injury was absolutely not the direct result of an illegal hit. As I noted in my response, if he had injured his ankle or knee you'd have a point. But that's not what happened.

 

He got tripped up by a hit that was deemed low (though only vs QBs...any other player it would have been a legal tackle) and was flagged. But the way he fell was the way any player falls when they're tripped up...whether the way they were tripped up was a penalty or not. Did you watch the video? He landed like most players who are tackled land.

 

There was nothing remarkable about how he fell other than he somehow got a season ending injury doing so.

 

You could then say the same about any injury if you wanted to try and convince people the guy in question wasn't injury prone. "If he hadn't been tackled, he wouldn't have been injured"...well...yeah that's probably true.

[redskinss]

15 hours ago, mistertim said:

By pretty much any measurable criteria Fitz has elevated his game over the past 2-3 years. Again, I'm hardly the only one saying this...the coaches and FO have noted it as well.

The coaches and front office are going to paint the Rosiest picture possible for the fans.

It's not as if they're going to say "we're really hoping Fitztragic doesn't show up"

 

The "by any measurable criteria" comment is a stretch, look at his career numbers, he's had years early in his career that were as good and some better than the last two to 3.

 

He's definitely better than what we've had the last couple of years but that's because the bar couldn't possibly be lower but to suggest there's been a significant turnaround in his career seems like rose colored fan glasses.

If he really has had a significant turn around how was he available for ten million when average starting quarterbacks are making 20 to 25 per year?

 

My opinion, we know what we have with Fitz, an awesome team leader who can make plays and may win us some games but is also 38 going on 39 mid-season and has been cast-off by half the teams in the league. 

Heinicke is still young especially by quarterback standards but has plenty of years in the league so he's not "green" so to speak but what he can do over the long term is a huge question mark and I'm more excited by the total unknown after what I saw in the Tampa game than what we know we will be getting with Fitzpatrick. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, redskinss said:

 

If he really has had a significant turn around how was he available for ten million when average starting quarterbacks are making 20 to 25 per year?

 

 

 

Tom Brady who is the best Qb in history supposedly had only two teams chase him in FA.  Age seems to matter in FA.  

 

Fitzpatrick in his later years IMO is an average QB (just about every metric backs that up) and he's going on 39.  Average QBs don't tend to break the bank these days especially those pushing 40.    If he were 26, some team would likely bet bigger money on potential. 

 

Personally, I don't think Fitz's has made a "significant" turnaround.  I don't think he stank previously.  He was just more of a roller coaster.  A rich man's Rex Grossman.  Now he still makes mistakes but not to the same extent.  I'd put him slightly below average before to now being an average QB with high intangibles.  You don't play in the league for as long as Fitz if you are bad at what you do.

 

2 hours ago, redskinss said:

The coaches and front office are going to paint the Rosiest picture possible for the fans.

It's not as if they're going to say "we're really hoping Fitztragic doesn't show up"

 

 

Coaches tend to spin sunshine to fans about almost every player.  So I agree somewhat with the point.   As for Fitz since he wasn't foisted on them or was a player they inherited -- I buy they believe their own rap about him.   They (and others like Breer backed this up) supposedly targeted Fitz when they lost out on Stafford.  If you listen to Rivera/Zampese, etc they totally buy that Fitz is playing his best ball now.   I recall  @RWJ and I commenting on the QB thread back before FA that when Rivera kept describing theoritically what kind of QB they wanted he seemed to be describing Fitz to a tee.  And no shocker at the start of FA that's who they chased and landed.

 

I get some here are apprehensive about Fitz.  But clearly, Rivera and crew aren't in the glass is half empty crowd about Fitz.   They wanted him.  You can hear Rivera's voice pick up in a positive way whenever he's asked about Fitz.  If he is down on him, he then is a great actor because he isn't coming off that way.  

Edited June 25, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Burgundy Yoda]

There's no point in having a JoggingGod outlook on either Fitz or Heinicke. It's okay to be a fan and have hope that Heinicke pans out and be in his corner because of that. It's also okay to be in Fitz's corner because you like the leadership he brings and his gunslinger style. 

 

As a neutral I just want the best QB playing, period. We would have been much better than 7-9 if we didn't have Haskins at the helm last year and rolled with Kyle Allen or something. Just play the best QB, if Fitz is moving the offense better against our defense in TC he's the guy, if Heinicke is moving the offense better, he's the guy. I want the decision to be results driven, without much projection. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Koolblue13]

43 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

There's no point in having a JoggingGod outlook on either Fitz or Heinicke. It's okay to be a fan and have hope that Heinicke pans out and be in his corner because of that. It's also okay to be in Fitz's corner because you like the leadership he brings and his gunslinger style. 

 

As a neutral I just want the best QB playing, period. We would have been much better than 7-9 if we didn't have Haskins at the helm last year and rolled with Kyle Allen or something. Just play the best QB, if Fitz is moving the offense better against our defense in TC he's the guy, if Heinicke is moving the offense better, he's the guy. I want the decision to be results driven, without much projection. 

That's exactly how I feel. Its Fitz job to lose and its possible he could here and there. (Pulling a Volsmit). More good QB play the better. I doubt either is the QB of the next 15 years for us, but they'll definitely create a pretty awesome QB room for whoever's our draft pick next year.

[Chris 44]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

That's exactly how I feel. Its Fitz job to lose and its possible he could here and there. (Pulling a Volsmit). More good QB play the better. I doubt either is the QB of the next 15 years for us, but they'll definitely create a pretty awesome QB room for whoever's our draft pick next year.

Here of course lies the conundrum,  going to be too good this year to get a high draft pick without giving up huge amounts of capital. Im hoping one of them really steps up so we can perhaps have time to develop a QB that can be found late 1st or later. Who knows how it will ultimately work out but its a bit of a concern long term.

Plus relatively speaking long term for Fitz is what 3 or 4 years and maybe 10 for Heinike?

Edited June 26, 2021 by Chris 44

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Chris 44 said:

Here of course lies the conundrum,  going to be too good this year to get a high draft pick without giving up huge amounts of capital. Im hoping one of them really steps up so we can perhaps have time to develop a QB that can be found late 1st or later. Who knows how it will ultimately work out but its a bit of a concern long term.

Plus relatively speaking long term for Fitz is what 3 or 4 years and maybe 10 for Heinike?

I haven't felt this good about our QB room since RGlll was the starter in his rookie year. We are gonna have legit gunslingers playing QB this year whomever wins the job. I am so pumped for this season to start....there is no team that scares me with Fitz at the helm and the defense we will run out there. I expect to dominate the NFC East and be in contention for the best record in the NFC at the end. Keep the faith, our time is now.

[tmandoug1]

 Never played a snap for our team and it's his job to lose..........think about that. He's played a snap for 31 other teams and we think it's his job to lose!  Yeah because we have the system, the coaches, the defense, the stadium, the new name? My point is, you point out the flaws of Heinicke and then back the Magic Wonder because of what? What has he done.......let the kid play and if he gets hurt put in the ****ing backupmagicguy. Sorry...just my opinion.

[Burgundy Yoda]

8 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

That's exactly how I feel. Its Fitz job to lose and its possible he could here and there. (Pulling a Volsmit). More good QB play the better. I doubt either is the QB of the next 15 years for us, but they'll definitely create a pretty awesome QB room for whoever's our draft pick next year.

I hope that isn't the mindset our coaching staff has. It's entirely possible that they do have a QB on their hands better than Fitzpatrick. He is a 7th round journeyman that took 13 years to come into his own and play like he belonged in the league. He doesn't have the bulletproof resume required to get the job handed to him without a proper evaluation and him displaying he's the better QB in practice. 

 

I dont think there should be a "wink wink" QB competition between these two like many on the board seem to believe is going to happen.  I think there should be a legitimate chance for Heinicke to grab the job, get some time with the ones. 

 

Preseason is going to be incredibly interesting. I'm on board with whoever looks the best in those exhibition games. 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[ODU AGGIE]

8 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I hope that isn't the mindset our coaching staff has. It's entirely possible that they do have a QB on their hands better than Fitzpatrick. He is a 7th round journeyman that took 13 years to come into his own and play like he belonged in the league. He doesn't have the bulletproof resume required to get the job handed to him without a proper evaluation and him displaying he's the better QB in practice. 

 

I dont think there should be a "wink wink" QB competition between these two like many on the board seem to believe is going to happen.  I think there should be a legitimate chance for Heinicke to grab the job, get some time with the ones. 

 

Preseason is going to be incredibly interesting. I'm on board with whoever looks the best in those exhibition games. 

I absolutely agree with you, BY. But -- I am highly prejudiced, and I just happen to believe that after training camp and three preseason games, it will be Taylor Heinicke that we see take the field as our starting QB against the Chargers. Cheers!

[mistertim]

12 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

 Never played a snap for our team and it's his job to lose..........think about that. He's played a snap for 31 other teams and we think it's his job to lose!  Yeah because we have the system, the coaches, the defense, the stadium, the new name? My point is, you point out the flaws of Heinicke and then back the Magic Wonder because of what? What has he done.......let the kid play and if he gets hurt put in the ****ing backupmagicguy. Sorry...just my opinion.

 

I think it's his job to lose because the coaches and FO of this team went out very specifically and targeted him as their top guy in FA. Usually when a team does that (unless they already have their clear franchise QB and they're actually just looking for a backup) the default position is that it's that guy's job to lose.

 

They wanted Fitz for a reason, and they got him. Clearly they think he's an upgrade. That doesn't mean Heinicke won't get a shot to unseat him, and Rivera has said as much. But it also doesn't mean that it's a full-on 50/50 up in the air battle with no clear leader.

 

Both guys have their pros and cons as QBs, and that can be debated (and has been) all day long. But at the end of the day it's the decision of the coaches. And thus far they and others who are insiders with information have said that the job is Fitz's to lose.

 

Another thing regarding the injury stuff and the "well just put Fitz in if/when Heinicke gets hurt" is IMO a bit simplistic. QB continuity has a huge effect on the entire offense. Each QB is different and develop different chemistry with other players. If you think one QB is more likely to stay healthy than another (and most other things between them generally equal out) then you're probably going to go with that guy. 

[tmandoug1]

54 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think it's his job to lose because the coaches and FO of this team went out very specifically and targeted him as their top guy in FA. Usually when a team does that (unless they already have their clear franchise QB and they're actually just looking for a backup) the default position is that it's that guy's job to lose.

 

They wanted Fitz for a reason, and they got him. Clearly they think he's an upgrade. That doesn't mean Heinicke won't get a shot to unseat him, and Rivera has said as much. But it also doesn't mean that it's a full-on 50/50 up in the air battle with no clear leader.

 

Both guys have their pros and cons as QBs, and that can be debated (and has been) all day long. But at the end of the day it's the decision of the coaches. And thus far they and others who are insiders with information have said that the job is Fitz's to lose.

 

Another thing regarding the injury stuff and the "well just put Fitz in if/when Heinicke gets hurt" is IMO a bit simplistic. QB continuity has a huge effect on the entire offense. Each QB is different and develop different chemistry with other players. If you think one QB is more likely to stay healthy than another (and most other things between them generally equal out) then you're probably going to go with that guy. 

I thought we made a run at Stafford in the beginning? Fitz IMHO was not their first or second choice. He was BPA after we got blown off by the others. I'm glad we got him, and we got him on the cheap side of things. I just want the best of the bunch to start game one. Oh.....I'm also glad we got him because if we didn't we would have jumped up in the draft and .out a bunch of picks. Let the best man win. Looking forward to training camp and preseason. I also know my stance is setting me up for a huge "told you so" moment if Heiny gets hurt.

[evmiii]

Barring injury, Fitz is the starting QB.  His experience and temperament are what the young guys need.  His aggressiveness to get the ball down field excites everybody.  TH is the ideal back-up this year because his style is so similar.  I believe TH will keep ready and perform well if the opportunity arises.  If he can stay healthy he could hang around for a while.  I like TH, but he isn’t the franchise QB the team is looking for.

[mistertim]

5 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

I thought we made a run at Stafford in the beginning? Fitz IMHO was not their first or second choice. He was BPA after we got blown off by the others. I'm glad we got him, and we got him on the cheap side of things. I just want the best of the bunch to start game one. Oh.....I'm also glad we got him because if we didn't we would have jumped up in the draft and .out a bunch of picks. Let the best man win. Looking forward to training camp and preseason. I also know my stance is setting me up for a huge "told you so" moment if Heiny gets hurt.

 

Yeah they went pretty hard for Stafford apparently, which is why I said Fitz was their "top guy in FA". I haven't read that we got blown off by anyone else. That doesn't mean it didn't happen...I just don't remember hearing anything like that. From what Rivera and Turner have said, Fitz was the guy they really wanted in FA.

[tmandoug1]

8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah they went pretty hard for Stafford apparently, which is why I said Fitz was their "top guy in FA". I haven't read that we got blown off by anyone else. That doesn't mean it didn't happen...I just don't remember hearing anything like that. From what Rivera and Turner have said, Fitz was the guy they really wanted in FA.

Well they sure aren't going to say he wasn't after they got him.  

[Bifflog]

27 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Well they sure aren't going to say he wasn't after they got him.  

 

Well Stafford wasn't a free agent, and unless you think they would have rather had Dalton...?

[tmandoug1]

3 hours ago, Bifflog said:

 

Well Stafford wasn't a free agent, and unless you think they would have rather had Dalton...?

Never said he was......let me look and make sure that wasn't part of my response. 

[mistertim]

13 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

Well they sure aren't going to say he wasn't after they got him.  

 

*shrug*

 

I suppose that's possible. But at that point it's basically a question of whether you believe what the coaches and FO have been saying, as well as other insiders throughout the process...that Fitz was their #1 target after not being able to trade for Stafford...or you think they're just blowing smoke and making it up so they look better. I generally tend towards the former with this crew.

[Bifflog]

10 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

Never said he was......let me look and make sure that wasn't part of my response. 

 

Well my point was, the other free agent QB's were all less desirable, unless there's someone you think we would have liked better on this list:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/quarterback/

 

Clearly we did (and should) like Stafford better because we were willing to trade for him, but if they had "a guy in Free Agency" then I'd say it was Fitzpatrick and they got him.  This, of course, is a low bar looking at the pickings available, but I think the statement that he was their favorite FA QB is tough to argue with in light of this.

[Anselmheifer]

 

I don’t like this YouTube-er, but the workout videos are pretty great. Also, Heinicke’s arm looks LIVE here. 
 

I still think our best case scenario is that Heinicke somehow wins the starting job amd looks great. And we continue to draft and sign free agents around him. 

[mistertim]

That was a pretty cool video, but why in the world was he unracking the bar, walking like 10 steps out, and then doing half squats?