Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Koolblue13]

I wonder how many plays it'll be, before Heini starts banging the final nails in his coffin. 3? That would be an improvement. 

[skinsmarydu]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I wonder how many plays it'll be, before Heini starts banging the final nails in his coffin. 3? That would be an improvement. 

I heard on NFLN that because we're still somewhat playoff viable, Taylor will play until we're not. 

Expect an early exit, I would assume...especially if he throws a pick 6. 

[88Comrade2000]

There’s no legend. He’s a backup and nothing more. 

[celticsalmon]

Taylor Heinicke is/was a great story. He had his chance but in in the end he lacked the size and arm to be a viable starter.  BUT for a while it looked seemed like a fairytale.  But clock striked midnight with a questional Offensive Coordinator.

 

Why take an undersized QB and force him to manage and game and stay in the pocket?

But not playing to his strengths by designing play actions, rollouts and bootlegs, Scott Turner tarnished the luster.  Did you notice how TH's demeanor changed from happy go lucky - the sullen and serious.

 

Malpractise by the coaching staff.  He has a place in the NFL- just not as a starter or for that matter - a pocket passer behind a porous line. IMO

 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I think people are crazy to blame Heinicke’s struggles on Scott Turner.  Learn to throw a ball to the flat! Yikes. 

He is just not good enough. Full Stop.

 

Love the story, love the moxie but don’t love the results this year. He’s a fine back up though so he’s a piece to the puzzle imo. 

 

 

[clskinsfan]

9 minutes ago, celticsalmon said:

rollouts and bootlegs

Problem is his arm is so weak that when he throws on the move he is an INT waiting to happen. The only way he can get any zip on the ball is if he is planted and can turn his hips. At least we know what he is now. Would I be pissed if he had to come in 2 or 3 games a year to replace an injured starter? Nope. That is the perfect roll for him. He has guts and toughness that you cannot teach. But he is a below average NFL QB with probably the weakest arm in the league.  

[celticsalmon]

22 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

think people are crazy to blame Heinicke’s struggles on Scott Turner.  Learn to throw a ball to the flat! Yikes. 

But Scott had him in Carolina.  He KNEW his arm strength - Turner had first hand expearience with what TH could do or not do - yet he brought him back and put him in this his offense and kept him in the pocket behind a pourous line.  If Scott were an elected official I would call it malfeasance. So I call Turner's use of Heini as  malpractice.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

5 minutes ago, celticsalmon said:

But Scott had him in Carolina.  He KNEW his arm strength - Turner had first hand expearience with what TH could do or not do - yet he brought him back and put him in this his offense and kept him in the pocket behind a pourous line.  If Scott were an elected official I would call it malfeasance. So I call Turner's use of Heini as  malpractice.

Ok np. But I’ll just say that Taylor owes Scott for the rest of his life for the opportunity to put these games on film and basically solidify himself as a bonafide back up in this league. Not the other way around.  It’s the best we had to go with, so Scott did the best he could imo. 

[NickyJ]

What's lost in all this "being out of the playoffs" stuff is the greater tragedy. After this season, I don't think EA is going to wanna talk.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Rollouts, bootlegs, rollouts and bootlegs oh my.

 

Do any of the people shouting this have any data or analysis that suggests Taylor kills in this capacity?

Or that opposing defenses are giving looks where this is optimal and we’re just not calling it?

Because I’m not nor have I ever seen this as the answer.  From all I can see, Taylor needs perfect feet to get any mustard or touch on his throws.  Putting him in positions to throw on the run doesn’t make much sense to me.  But then again nor does the notion that the coaching staff is preventing him from getting out of the pocket and making plays with legs.  Or that the coaching staff is killing his vibe, or <insert whatever other lame excuse here>.  I’m not buying any of that.  I feel like Taylor Heineke owes a percentage of his check to Scott Turner for forging him a job in the NFL.

 

BTW, I totally get that the team wasn’t great today, or prior weeks, and don’t think Heineke is the sole reason we’ve been losing.  But some folks really get carried away projecting this dude with zilch to back up the claims.

Edited January 2, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[NoCalMike]

I was at the 49ers game today and Trey Lance started.  I have no idea the write up on Trey Lance's arm going into the draft, but it didn't seem overly strong either.  The 49ers ran mostly conservative plays relaying on the run game and defense.  It looked like a very similar game plan WFT runs with Heinicke.  Not sure if this is more to Trey Lance just not being ready to carry the load of a full NFL offense yet, or if they were trying to protect some of his weaknesses.  I wonder if Shanahan has any regrets they drafted him instead of Mac Jones?  Neither is proven yet though.  

 

On the way back to the car a lot of 49ers fans were talking about what they saw from Trey Lance and were saying a lot of the things we say about Heinicke.  In summary, he was missing a lot of guys who were open and were worried whether it had to do with his arm or just a rookie not being ready to make all the reads under the duress of an NFL pass rush.  

Edited January 3, 2022 by NoCalMike

[NoCalMike]

Another thing just to add.  We have to remember that our coaches, after seeing Heinicke at the end of 2021 still attempted to trade for Stafford, but when it fell through, they still went out and got an over the hill vet in Ryan Fitzpatrick who ended up winning the competition at QB.  So those were two options the coaches felt better about.  Stafford was the obvious one, but even Fitzpatrick who is a career journeymen himself beat out Heinicke in camp.  Do people really believe this had nothing to do with the fact that Heinicke doesn't have the physical ability to make all the throws?

Edited January 3, 2022 by NoCalMike

[Mr. Sinister]

The cycle continues...

[zCommander]

The Legend walking into the sunset...

 

[goskins10]

15 hours ago, celticsalmon said:

But Scott had him in Carolina.  He KNEW his arm strength - Turner had first hand expearience with what TH could do or not do - yet he brought him back and put him in this his offense and kept him in the pocket behind a pourous line.  If Scott were an elected official I would call it malfeasance. So I call Turner's use of Heini as  malpractice.

 

Interesting take. Here are the problems with it - yea he brought him here after Carolina, after we had 3 other QBs that he picked before Taylor got hurt and we needed an emergency QB. Then, in the off season, even though he had a nice game against Tampa, the team still made a full court press for Stafford (and possibly others we do not know about) and then signed Ryan Fitzpatrick who beat out Taylor in camp to be the starter. 

 

I love how everyone keeps screaming about rolling him out and getting out of the pocket. Yea, he did that on purpose because he knows more about football than you and I. Specifically, he knows those plays reduce the field in half and if you do it more than a few plays here and there it helps the D and that Taylor has to be in the pocket and be able to really set his feet and drive his body to get anything on a pass. Yea, the line was weak today no doubt. But Taylor still had opportunities and made poor decisions. He continues to take sacks he could avoid and put the ball in harm's way instead of getting rid of it. That is on him. 

 

Instead of blaming Scott for Taylor's deficiencies, Scott should be commended for getting what he did out of Taylor and creating an offense that until a few weeks ago had us in prime position to make the POs. Also, good on Taylor for making the most of his opportunity. He is a great guy and a hard worker. I love watching him when he is on. But his deficiencies were bound to be exposed eventually. Scott hid them for as long as he could but the other teams are trying to win also. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by goskins10

[Est.1974]

11 hours ago, celticsalmon said:

But Scott had him in Carolina.  He KNEW his arm strength - Turner had first hand expearience with what TH could do or not do - yet he brought him back and put him in this his offense and kept him in the pocket behind a pourous line.  If Scott were an elected official I would call it malfeasance. So I call Turner's use of Heini as  malpractice.

Much like Rivera saying he wants to see more of Kyle Allen. Again, had him in Carolina, this staff had a good idea what TH and Allen would give you, thus the signing of Fitz after tentatively sniffing around other vets. 
 

I said after the Pukes blowout that I felt the coaches were pushing TH into areas of his weakness to see how he would perform. To me I think he’s subsequently confirmed his limitations.

 

Still hope he’s around in 2022. He’s pretty much the best type of back-up you could afford to carry on the roster.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

7 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

On the way back to the car a lot of 49ers fans were talking about what they saw from Trey Lance and were saying a lot of the things we say about Heinicke.  In summary, he was missing a lot of guys who were open and were worried whether it had to do with his arm or just a rookie not being ready to make all the reads under the duress of an NFL pass rush.  

 

I am surprised because when I think of his weaknesses and strengths, Taylor doesn't come to mind.   I was mixed about Lance before the draft, boom-bust guy.  But if Lance's assets -- rocket arm and almost elite level speed isn't up Taylor's alley.  But Lance's accuracy, running through progressions, etc being a work in progress that I could easily see.  I didn't watch the game but saw my share of his college ones.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Taylor Heinicke belongs in the NFL, but he’s not Washington’s QB of the future

This conclusion isn’t reached because, with under half a minute to play and 20 yards between himself and a victory, Taylor Heinicke reached back and slung the interception that finally and formally ended the Washington Football Team’s playoff chances. Rather, it is reached after the entirety of 16 games, including Sunday’s 20-16 loss to the Philadelphia Eagles: Heinicke is not an NFL starting quarterback and therefore not the solution Washington so desperately needs if it’s ever to find sustained success.

 

 

...Where does that leave Heinicke? Add up the numbers before getting to the visuals. On the year, he was 312 for 476, a 65.5 percent completion rate that will put him in the lower half of the league. He threw for 3,299 yards — a dream total a year ago when he was unemployed, a meh total over the course of 14 starts and a relief appearance. His 6.93 yards per attempt are slightly below middling. His 15 interceptions will be among the most in the league.

“I thought he did some good things,” Rivera said Sunday. “I thought he gave us a chance.”

 

That’s Heinicke’s season: More often than not, he gave Washington a chance. But for Washington to have a chance not just at a single playoff run but to make those runs an annual occurrence, the WFT has to do better at the sport’s most important

position. Apologies if you’ve read that before.

 

...Don’t be mistaken: Heinicke is absolutely worth having in the building — and he will be staying, given Washington wisely signed him to an affordable two-year, $4.75 million deal after his promising playoff start against Tampa Bay that concluded last season. He has shown he would be one of the most capable, most exciting backups in the league. He’s not a math student. He’s a quarterback. There’s a lot of high praise in that.

 

It’s also another way of saying this: He won’t be the starter who carries a winner deep into January.

That’s not true just because of the numbers. It’s true for two other reasons, both on display Sunday: his physical limitations and the fact that his best quality can also lead to his worst results.

 

...On first and 10 from the Philadelphia 22-yard line, the pocket began to collapse around Heinicke, so he tried to sidestep the pressure. At times Sunday and throughout the season, this has been his greatest asset: a sense of where the rush is coming from, feet quick enough to avoid it and reset, a creativity that is alluring and — at its best — effective.

Here, though, avoiding the pressure merely led to more pressure. The task then: throw the ball away. When he went to do that, though, he heaved it downfield in the vague direction of tight end Ricky Seals-Jones. Eagles linebacker Genard Avery was there to catch a floating gift of an interception.

 

“That was awful,” Heinicke said, providing spot-on analysis.

In real time, here’s where the physical limitations come into play: I thought he was trying to throw the ball away and he merely didn’t have the arm strength to get it to the sideline. The play was negated because Philadelphia committed a penalty. But it stood out as the worst Heinicke has to offer. He knows that.

 

...Let’s not make it into an issue going into the season finale against the Giants. Whether Allen plays is moot. We know his arm is stronger than Heinicke’s. We know Heinicke is more creative and resourceful.

What we also know headed into 2022 and beyond: The quarterback who could lead Washington into becoming a consistent, reliable, dangerous winner is not currently employed by the team. Maybe he will be acquired in the draft. Maybe he will be acquired by trade. Those are discussions for the offseason — which is nigh.

At times, the Taylor Heinicke experience kept this season afloat. At times, it was costly. In the end, there’s enough evidence in that intoxicating mix to conclude what Washington has as a starting quarterback, which is something short of what it needs.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/01/02/taylor-heinicke-washington-football-franchise-qb/

[Burgold]

Sometimes, the legend doesn’t measure up to the truth. 

[DJHJR86]

I don't understand why people are either upset or crowing over the fact that Taylor is a backup.  That was literally everyone's baseline opinion after the Tampa Bay playoff game.  Yes, he was largely still unknown, but everyone had the same refrain after that game: "he's at least good enough to be a backup on a roster".  This season has simply proved that.  He's an asset and probably one of the top 5 backups in the league.  

[sprcr]

Correct.  He's a damn good backup.  That isnt a personal insult.  its just what the evidence shows.  He'll be in the league for years as exactly that, but if he starts you're going to win 40% of your games.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

I don't understand why people are either upset or crowing over the fact that Taylor is a backup.  That was literally everyone's baseline opinion after the Tampa Bay playoff game.  Yes, he was largely still unknown, but everyone had the same refrain after that game: "he's at least good enough to be a backup on a roster".  This season has simply proved that.  He's an asset and probably one of the top 5 backups in the league.  

There was at one point, probably a dozen or so - maybe more, posters that were all-in on Heineke and were shouting down anyone who dared question their takes as 'haters' who 'want to see him fail' that are 'only obsessed with arm strength'.  The word 'elite' was used in regards to his intangibles, we even had one dude seriously telling folks that Heineke was responsible for the running game because he's elite at handing the ball off. 

 

Had none of that stuff happened to the extent that it did, I'd imagine this conversation would be dead and everyone would be in unison that he's a cool backup to have in a Scott Turner system.

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 12/30/2021 at 8:14 PM, kingdaddy said:

I have not said that TH is the answer at QB, that remains to be seen for when we have more of a complete roster with less injuries/COVID issues. However, there is plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom. TH helped this team stay in contention into December and then the wheels fell off of the entire franchise. 

Two weeks ago ex-Eagles coach Doug Pedersen was interviewed and he talked about how much it takes from management, coaches, trainers, players and several other facets of a team to win a Super Bowl. So much has to go right, including your schedule and opponents situations. The Eagles won that SB because of the overall team chemistry they had and he pointed out much more that what players were on the field. All I'm trying to say is that this team better get better in many more areas or it doesn't matter who the QB is. 

I'm too smart to declare TH the future QB of this team but I know he's not to blame for how the team fell apart. The defense, kicker, Gibson, injuries and COVID all went against TH in his bid to be the future QB. I'm sure the coaches realize that just as much as they realize his deficiencies and their need to keep searching while trying to coach him up.

 

While all of this is true this is a Taylor Heinke thread.  We are evaluating Heinke here and the evidence is overwhelming where you sound like you are making excuses for his poor play as you point out his good run in December while ignoring the other games both before and after that run.    

Edited January 3, 2022 by Darrell Green Fan

[Burgold]

I think Heinike has shown himself to be a high end backup and a low end starting QB. With a good squad around him and a functional defense, I think he’s in the mid 20’s. 
 

That’s not what you want, but it’s better than what a number of teams trot out. 

[kingdaddy]

12 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

While all of this is true this is a Taylor Heinke thread.  We are evaluating Heinke here and the evidence is overwhelming where you sound like you are making excuses for his poor play as you point out his good run in December while ignoring the other games both before and after that run.    

Heinicke should be given the same learning curve and excuses as any other rookie QB on any other team. I am not saying he is the answer and would even like to see more of Kyle Allen while we are evaluating guys. But look at the hand he's been dealt this year and it hasn't been a full deck. Don't read into that as me saying TH is our future but until something better comes around our management better figure out a way to bring more playmakers in here on both sides of the ball or no QB will succeed. 

6 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I think Heinike has shown himself to be a high end backup and a low end starting QB. With a good squad around him and a functional defense, I think he’s in the mid 20’s. 
 

That’s not what you want, but it’s better than what a number of teams trot out. 

Ditto...he can win for you given a solid supporting cast.