Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[KDawg]

Only on ES do we have a full blown intellectual discussion on a phrase such as “punch them in the mouth”.

 

Its not a literal expression, folks. But I did enjoy the discourse.

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, DEASkins said:

Tone setter. I bet a modern day O lineman is athletic and coordinated enough to punish a defender in a gruesome manner without it being a penalty. That being said it's kind of humorous that talking about punishing the Dallas D line in an extreme manner seems to be more offensive than the way our offense played today

 

It's not "offensive", it's just dumb.

 

People are emotional and pissed off that we lost so they decide they want us to go out and play like cowards, bullies, and losers. Dallas was simply the better team today. More talent, less injuries, better game plan, better execution. Becoming dirty players isn't the answer. Better preparation, more talent, and better execution is. Stop with this low road nonsense.

[DEASkins]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

It's not "offensive", it's just dumb.

 

People are emotional and pissed off that we lost so they decide they want us to go out and play like cowards, bullies, and losers. Dallas was simply the better team today. More talent, less injuries, better game plan, better execution. Becoming dirty players isn't the answer. Better preparation, more talent, and better execution is. Stop with this low road nonsense.

My apologies if you took my words 100% literally here. I agree with some of what you're saying but I also believe some of my points have validity too and for that matter I don't agree with the approach I've implied is a dirty or cowardly way. I'm way over being pissed off or emotional over being punked by Dallas without a response by Wash. This has been a fun, lively way to talk about the game and has been helpful

[skins island connection]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Nobody is saying effort doesn't matter.

 

My argument is that "intensity" and "being tough" isn't the reason we lost. We lost because the Cowboys were the better team. More talented, healthier, coming off extra rest, etc. Period.

 

We tried plenty hard. The Cowboys also tried really hard. They also have much better players and were much healthier. Therefore, they jumped out to a big lead. When they stopped trying as hard in the 2nd half, we were able to make a bit of a comeback(although largley due to a couple kinda fluky plays).

 

It isn't all that difficult to comprehend. But I've said my piece. I'm done with this discussion for fear of saying something that will get me banned.

 

 

 

 While overall I agree with this, I put it on the OC and DC.  This offense has looked alot more sharper, crisper than today.

Turner KNEW Dallas d-line was healthy and coming for blood, and he should have gotten TH out of the pocket alot more than he was, and he does make good things happen out of the pocket.  The WFT o-line wasn't going to be able to protect TH, Dallas would rotate fresh guys in to wear the o-line down. 

 

Dallas DC knew to stack the line and pressure TH and slow the rushing game because TH isn't experienced enough to carry the team. The Wrs are the Smurfs 2, only Sims has good height, and look at Dallas; Lamb  6'2, Cooper 6'1, Gallup 6'1, Wilson 6'2, turner 6'2, and WFT's WRs are 6'0, 5'8, 5'11.  This team needs height and speed at the WR spot, but Turner had the opportunity to evaluate the Dallas defense and come up with something more than today.

Some want to question TH, but they should look at the talent level { or lack thereof } of the WRs. No illusiveness, no speed, no deep threat. Get a couple guys with some speed and roll TH out of the pocket away from that pass rush and its a different ball game. 

[Jumbo]

i think our guys should use karate on the other guys next time

[Captain Wiggles]

2 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

i think our guys should use karate on the other guys next time

 

 

[DEASkins]

4 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

i think our guys should use karate on the other guys next time

At least until Heinicke recovers his Jedi mind tricks

[PartyPosse]

On 12/10/2021 at 8:29 PM, bowhunter said:

I don't think there's a ton of QBs that I would rather tell to go out and win the game than how TH has been showing that he can. With his arm. And Legs, and Head, and Leadership.  Honest question.. don't you feel that any 4th quarter drive is within the reach of what TH has shown?? Do you give up hope if we're down by 4 with 3 minutes left in the game? He's not the prototype of the "arm" you want leading your team, but lately he's been the "QB" I want in those moments.  Give the man credit where it's due

How bout now (sorry I couldn’t resist. I’m petty).

[gooseneck]

I agree with everyone here.

 

[Bacon]

23 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

How bout now (sorry I couldn’t resist. I’m petty).

 

Why be petty about the success of our starting quarterback? I would hope the specific person under center matters less to our success-starved fanbase than the fact that we're winning with them (the RG3/Cousins transition taught me this isn't always the case though).

 

If TH performs well, the team is better off for it, so dredging up positive posts for being "wrong" after a bad game is self-defeating.

[PartyPosse]

5 minutes ago, Bacon said:

 

Why be petty about the success of our starting quarterback? I would hope the specific person under center matters less to our success-starved fanbase than the fact that we're winning with them (the RG3/Cousins transition taught me this isn't always the case though).

 

If TH performs well, the team is better off for it, so dredging up positive posts for being "wrong" after a bad game is self-defeating.

I agree, but sometimes after a bad game I'll take all the shallow, pathetic opportunities to redirect my frustrations I can get.

[wit33]

8 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I agree, but sometimes after a bad game I'll take all the shallow, pathetic opportunities to redirect my frustrations I can get.

Weak. 
 

Feel for you, it appears I was where you are now mentally during the Kirk debates. Much more enjoyable on this side of the debate lol

[PartyPosse]

43 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Weak. 
 

Feel for you, it appears I was where you are now mentally during the Kirk debates. Much more enjoyable on this side of the debate lol

Eh. I’m still fully invested in him and really hoping for continued good things for him, roadbump games aside. It’s more my pettiness with other posters.

[Burgold]

9 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I just don't think he's that good.  

 

What makes up for it is that he battles.  Battles, battles, battles.  And gets the most out of his abilities.  And from time to time, he can make a THROW.  Like, a THROW that'll make you say DAMN.  

 

But when he's overmatched he can't escape his limitations.  

I think he's better than we give him credit for when we're down on him and worse than we give him credit for when the team's doing well. He's football IQ and moxie. He's hustle. I think that's why when he tries to be a "game manager" his performance suffers.

 

He is an athlete. You can see it in his ability to escape pressure and his runs. He's got an okay arm even if it's below average, but like every quarterback he needs help. He needs system help, offensive line help, and receiver help. Yesterday, all his support systems faltered because of injuries. And he, himself faltered. He wasn't good enough. 

 

I think Heinike's next step needs to be about anticipation. He doesn't really have the arm to be Brett Farve, but he might almost have the arm to be Drew Brees or early days Tom Brady. Both of them are much more accurate though and both of them understand when to throw the pass better. When he's on, Heinike lets it rip and understands timing. When he's off, he seems to be trying to hit targets (not sure if I'm right about that, but it feels right.) 

 

I think you can win with him, but he's got to become a chess player on the field. He has to always be ahead of the defense. That's very hard to accomplish.

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 12/10/2021 at 9:18 AM, mistertim said:

 

To be fair, you did basically disappear from this thread when Heinicke was struggling earlier in the season. You seemed to re-appear after he found his groove again.

 

I believe it's time @ODU AGGIEreturns to Witness Protection, at least for a week.  

[London Kev]

The main reason for the loss was the dallas defense. They were at full strength, fully rested and are very good. We had 29 total yards in the first half, with -7 passing yards (minus ****ing seven!). Heinicke's lack of velocity on his throws was evident, but their defense just whooped our arses across the board in that first half and were up 24-0.

 

I think that it's fair to mention that we were down to 4th, 5th and 6th string players, but in the end, nobody else cares. It's a team against a team and dallas were just the better team.  

 

If you're looking for a moral victory (which is all we got) then we did "win" the 2nd half 20-3. We got four sacks, two interceptions (go Swole) and were still in the game at the end.

 

If Heinicke is healthy then I think he should see the season out, and we've still got another shot at dallas in two weeks. But the team needs to lick their wounds and prepare for the eagles, because that just became the biggest game of the season.

[bowhunter]

6 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

How bout now (sorry I couldn’t resist. I’m petty).

I had to work yesterday, so I have yet to see the game. But from what I was able to follow from my phone, it was UGLY. First half completion rate around 20%? My non football fan co-coworkers enjoyed watching me lament that Dallas was taking our lunch money. When I had a chance to re-open the phone app with 3 minutes left and saw us within 7 I wondered how/if Heiny had rallied. This thread tells me that he didn't. 

 

This is one advantage of having a larger sample size. Who is the real Heinicke? Was he "figured out?" Just a bad game? or did they expose his true weaknesses.? Apparently yesterday was a situation where just about any QB who isn't "elite" would struggle

[Thinking Skins]

7 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

 While overall I agree with this, I put it on the OC and DC.  This offense has looked alot more sharper, crisper than today.

Turner KNEW Dallas d-line was healthy and coming for blood, and he should have gotten TH out of the pocket alot more than he was, and he does make good things happen out of the pocket.  The WFT o-line wasn't going to be able to protect TH, Dallas would rotate fresh guys in to wear the o-line down. 

 

Dallas DC knew to stack the line and pressure TH and slow the rushing game because TH isn't experienced enough to carry the team. The Wrs are the Smurfs 2, only Sims has good height, and look at Dallas; Lamb  6'2, Cooper 6'1, Gallup 6'1, Wilson 6'2, turner 6'2, and WFT's WRs are 6'0, 5'8, 5'11.  This team needs height and speed at the WR spot, but Turner had the opportunity to evaluate the Dallas defense and come up with something more than today.

Some want to question TH, but they should look at the talent level { or lack thereof } of the WRs. No illusiveness, no speed, no deep threat. Get a couple guys with some speed and roll TH out of the pocket away from that pass rush and its a different ball game. 

I'm gonna get back on this island because we saw it yesterday. If Heinicke's problem is throwing high, then why don't we play our bigger WRs (namely Cam Sims)? He is the only one who showed up yesterday and we've seen that Heinicke has consistently gone to Thomas, Bates, and RSJ. Even Gibson is a bigger guy. Cam Sims seems to be the only one other that TMac who can win against press coverage. And that was our problem yesterday. I have been wondering all year why we aren't playing Sims more because he has played well? Instead he gets replaced with Brown and Samuel (who I think is a worse FA acquisition than Brandon Lloyd). 

 

Heinicke was pressing yesterday and you could see it. There were several opportunities where he had underneath throws (for a first) but instead went to the deeper WR. I like that he's challenging the defense deep and giving the WRs opportunities, but he's gotta do a better job of taking what's given to him. That said, the other thing is that he needs to run more. I was so upset when on Kyle Allen's first play he runs for 10 yards and a first down. I was asking myself where that type of play was from Heinicke this game. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

I think he's better than we give him credit for when we're down on him and worse than we give him credit for when the team's doing well. He's football IQ and moxie. He's hustle. I think that's why when he tries to be a "game manager" his performance suffers.

 

He is an athlete. You can see it in his ability to escape pressure and his runs. He's got an okay arm even if it's below average, but like every quarterback he needs help. He needs system help, offensive line help, and receiver help. Yesterday, all his support systems faltered because of injuries. And he, himself faltered. He wasn't good enough. 

 

I think Heinike's next step needs to be about anticipation. He doesn't really have the arm to be Brett Farve, but he might almost have the arm to be Drew Brees or early days Tom Brady. Both of them are much more accurate though and both of them understand when to throw the pass better. When he's on, Heinike lets it rip and understands timing. When he's off, he seems to be trying to hit targets (not sure if I'm right about that, but it feels right.) 

 

I think you can win with him, but he's got to become a chess player on the field. He has to always be ahead of the defense. That's very hard to accomplish.

 

I think this is a very well written and accurate take.

[skins island connection]

Well, WFT knows what they will be up against in 2 weeks. 

Generally thats how rivalries work' the visiting team wins.

I'm hoping Turner will have a much better game plan on the 26th. Get TH out of the pocket, give him options. McKissick will be back and that adds another dynamic that Dallas can't handle. And for god's sakes play Sims more! Get some height out there to give TH a chance.

[randyjohnson]

Look I love the TH Story his heart, but let’s be honest he doesn’t have anNFL arm. Not even close. It was very noticeable when Allen entered the game, you could see the difference! 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

All season long, for better or worse, it seems after every game the fanbase is in a hurry to either assign or defect blame from Taylor and make definitive statements about who he is as a player.  You've got the leaders of the Hive that will come up with every reason under the sun why his poor play is the fault of everyone but him and on the other side you have a few folks that pin all the blame on him.

 

Like everything else in life, the truth falls somewhere in the middle.

 

Personally, I still think he's a great asset to have as a backup quarterback, no more - no less and I don't see that changing from week to week.

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

36 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I think this is a very well written and accurate take.

 

Boy I don't know about that. It's a stretch to say he has an "OK arm".  By NFL standards he clearly has the weakest arm of all the 32 starters.  Someone mentioned Drew Brees, TH's accuracy is not even in the same universe as Drew Brees.  

[DJHJR86]

29 minutes ago, randyjohnson said:

Look I love the TH Story his heart, but let’s be honest he doesn’t have anNFL arm. Not even close. It was very noticeable when Allen entered the game, you could see the difference! 

 

Yep.  It was pretty apparent that Allen has better touch on his passes.  

[Thinking Skins]

This is from the Athletic

 

The concern now is health. Heinicke said afterward his knee was “fine,” according to quotes supplied by the team, but said his throwing elbow got banged in the first half. His was one of a rash of new injuries on top of the old ones, along with the COVID-19-related absences of defensive ends Montez Sweat, Casey Toohill and James Smith-Williams.
 

This can explain some of his accuracy issues. I thought it was his throwing arm.