Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[drowland]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Thats a chess move. Jets trade the Falcons for 2, take their first and Matt Ryan. At 4 they draft BPA (Chase, Pitts, Harris, Parsons).

 

Turn around and trade Darnold for a pick. Shore up their roster considerably.

 

Ryan won’t last them long... but that’s quite the trade.

 

Im not sure if that’s value there... but it may be for Atlanta to get Fields and get the Ryan contract off the books. Good trade both ways in MY opinion.

 

I'm not necessarily saying Atlanta would trade Ryan to the Jets to move up.  Just saying trading Ryan away to anyone would make more sense because they're better positioned at #4 to get one of the top QBs where Detroit is not.  And if the Jets decide to ride with Darnold over Fields or Wilson they could trade back with Atlanta for extra draft picks.   

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, drowland said:

 

I'm not necessarily saying Atlanta would trade Ryan to the Jets to move up.  Just saying trading Ryan away to anyone would make more sense because they're better positioned at #4 to get one of the top QBs where Detroit is not.  And if the Jets decide to ride with Darnold over Fields or Wilson they could trade back with Atlanta for extra draft picks.   

 

I'm saying it. I know you didn't. And if I were Atlanta I'd do it as fast as humanly possible. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

44 minutes ago, drowland said:

I don't get the Stafford trade talk.  The Lions don't have another QB on the roster.  They're currently picking #11.  What GM and HC are going to walk in there and say yeah lets trade Stafford and ride with Chase Daniels and whatever QB we can get at #11?  It's possible they could draft a QB at #11 but if they did it's more likely they'd ride with Stafford for 2021, keep the rookie on the bench for a year and then trade Stafford in 2022.  To me a lot of steps have to be taken first for Detroit to make a move on Stafford this year.  

 

Atlanta makes more since drafting #4 and trading Matt Ryan because they're in position to get Fields or Wilson.  If the Jets decide to stick with Darnold the Falcons could even jump up to #2.  

 

I think the Lions keep Stafford but it depends on context.  If Stafford wants out and a new staff has some rope to rebuild the team then its a maybe.   Some Detroit beat guys think they will trade Stafford and some do not.  I'd bet that they don't trade him.

 

As for Ryan, he might be more tradeable because he's a less attractive player for the team to keep.  Ryan is 3 years older than Stafford.  And he's a much bigger cap hit too.  I believe his cap hit is in the low 30s a season for the next two years versus Stafford being in the low 20s.

 

So because Ryan is arguably a less attractive get -- you got an older QB and you are also saddled with a colossal cap hit, they might be more willing to deal him.  That might be true.  

Edited December 23, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[drowland]

Yeah didn't think about the cap hit.  It would up to Atlanta and their new GM/HC to decide if they want to role with him and if so restructure his deal to lower the cap hit.  And I guess Stafford could force a trade out of Detroit. 

 

I saw the report Roethlisberger plans to return next season and he's got $40M cap hit in 2021.  Puts the Steelers in a tough spot.   They've been restructuring and pushing the cap hit back for years and now they're stuck with it unless they release him or he retires.  I think they save $19M if they release him.  

Edited December 23, 2020 by drowland

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Absolutely.

 

Thing is the biggest critique on this team under Alex, now and in 2018 is, “I don’t like it because it’s boring”.

 

I’m sorry to those that think that, I didn’t know winning was boring. 

I agree. All these damn kids and their high flying gimmicky offenses score 20 points a game. Its ridiculous. 

 

Im totally being serious btw. Lol I like defense and the ground and pound. I like Alex at QB.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, drowland said:

Yeah didn't think about the cap hit.  It would up to Atlanta and their new GM/HC to decide if they want to role with him and if so restructure his deal to lower the cap hit.

 

I saw the report Roethlisberger plans to return next season and he's got $40M cap hit in 2021.  Puts the Steelers in a tough spot.   They've been restructuring and pushing the cap hit back for years and now they're stuck with it unless they release him or he retires.  I think they save $19M if they release him.  

I thought about it but I didn’t know it and didn’t care to look into it.

[CommanderDOOM]

Stafford, Ryan, Carr, Jameis, Fitz, or Dak I think we could threaten with.

A mediocre Qb is all we really need as proven this year. The defense is trending to becoming elite so a nice journeyman Qb will go a long way. If Alex could still run we'd be a problem ahora.

Edited December 23, 2020 by TheShredSkinz

[Llevron]

I kinda want Stafford and a rookie to take the rest of the snaps. 
 

Im sure we can’t afford to do that though 

[Jericho]

Stafford's not bad, but likely expensive. I fully expect if Washington somehow trades for him, he gets injured within three games and goes out for the year. He'll be 33 next year and QBs don't tend to get healthier as they age. Stafford always seems banged up with something, even though he often guts through it. Eventually that's going to catch up with him. And possibly all at once.

[Malapropismic Depository]

 

[Anselmheifer]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Future star. I hope, if we don't get him, that he winds up in the AFC. 

[Dexter]

Put me down for a vet QB who is a proven leader.....no more gambling on high profile QB's who end up being turds.  

 

Very happy we have Alex....glad we had Kirk, and hopefully we can get a high character kid like Mariota to compete with Alex next year. 

[RWJ]

56 minutes ago, Dexter said:

Put me down for a vet QB who is a proven leader.....no more gambling on high profile QB's who end up being turds.  

 

Very happy we have Alex....glad we had Kirk, and hopefully we can get a high character kid like Mariota to compete with Alex next year. 

I like Mariota a lot IF he's available.  Hard to tell what the asking price would be.  If, big if we could get him for a 3rd and a 5th or 6th , I'd be very happy.

[Est.1974]

This could be a wild offseason with QB moves, especially with teams who are picking higher than us in the draft. It’s not out of the question that the Vikings move on from Cousins. I could see the 49ers interested in a trade there. 
 

Think for us we are waiting on a) our confirmed draft position and b) Alex Smiths plans for 2021. 

[Anselmheifer]

5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

 It’s not out of the question that the Vikings move on from Cousins.

 

Interesting...forum temperature picking Cousins back up?

[drowland]

5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

This could be a wild offseason with QB moves, especially with teams who are picking higher than us in the draft. It’s not out of the question that the Vikings move on from Cousins. I could see the 49ers interested in a trade there. 
 

Think for us we are waiting on a) our confirmed draft position and b) Alex Smiths plans for 2021. 

 

Color me skeptical on there being a lot of QB moves this offseason.  Derek Carr maybe because I don't think he's ever been Gruden's guy and he got that last contract before Gruden came back.  Stafford could force a trade but that's never been his style and I can't see a new GM/HC wanting to do it, unless it's a GM/HC who like Garoppolo and they trade Stafford to SF for him.  Some of the others (Ryan, Wentz, Cousins) would take some creativity because of the cap implications.  

[HigSkin]

Riddick on Get Up this morning and has interviewed for the Lions GM opening, said they just need to get skill positions and pieces around Stafford.  You get the feeling people think they'd be stupid to trade him, that its been more fan/media speculation.  I think the same thing.  They can get a QB to develop under him.

[Warhead36]

I don't think we'll go after a vet. If we go that route we'll just keep Smith/Allen. Just a hunch.

[CapsSkins]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Interesting...forum temperature picking Cousins back up?

 

**** no

[skinny21]

43 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think we'll go after a vet. If we go that route we'll just keep Smith/Allen. Just a hunch.

I think it hinges in Smith.  If he retires, we pick up a vet - at minimum one that can compete with Allen, but more likely a guy the FO thinks will be the starter.  

Purely from a talent standpoint, I’d be okay rolling with Allen/Haskins and trying to find a rookie that the FO thinks could potentially become the guy with time (2nd rounder for example).  Haskins has lost all my trust though, and I have to think Rivera isn’t too keen on retaining him either.   

 

I like Stafford a lot, but the cap complications a few years down the road, and the draft assets he would cost (not to mention I doubt he gets traded) concern me greatly.

Trading up for a rook may well take premium draft assets, and give you less certainty.  Some have mentioned trading a player as part of a package deal (appealing because we don’t lose as many picks), but who do you trade?  Settle is probably the best bet - starter ability and rookie contract - but is it worth losing him for what he’d be likely valued (a 4th or 5th would be my guess).  Io’s stock is lower due to injury (ie, he’s probably worth more to us right now than to another team).  Allen after extending him?  That would be dangerous in terms of ill will and losing a leader/stud.  Fuller again?  Lol. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

I wonder what Gardner Minshew is doing right now?

[Skinsinparadise]

21 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I'm saying it. I know you didn't. And if I were Atlanta I'd do it as fast as humanly possible. 

 

Doubt a rebuilding team would have any interest in a 36 year old QB.  But I do think Atlanta should want to unload Ryan.  36 year old QB with a lot of salary on the books which they can dump.   I think you need a contender who would be willing to take on both a Qb that age and 30 plus cap hit a year. 

 

THE QB1S ANY OTHER YEAR: BYU'S ZACH WILSON AND OHIO STATE'S JUSTIN FIELDS

These two took distinctly different paths to their quarterback superstardom. Fields was in an echelon of recruiting that few achieve. 247sports ranks him as its ninth-highest-rated recruit ever, and the third-highest-ranked quarterback behind only Vince Young and Trevor Lawrence. Inseparable from the aforementioned Lawrence, it was actually Fields who won the vaunted MVP award at the prestigious Elite 11 quarterback camp back in high school.

Wilson, on the other hand, ended up at BYU without anywhere near the fanfare. Hailing from Draper, Utah, he went by Zachary Wilson back then as a lowly 3-star recruit. From the moment Wilson set foot on campus, the Cougars' coaching staff could tell the recruiting services got it wrong, as he was named the starting quarterback midway through his freshman season.

Now, the two will duke it out for the right to be the No. 2 overall pick. Both are deadly accurate to all levels. In fact, before Wilson played on Tuesday night, they were tied for the third-best uncatchable pass rate among all quarterbacks in college football, at 13.7%. That's made even more impressive by the healthy 9.7-yard and 11.1-yard average depth of targets for Fields and Wilson, respectively. While Fields is the better athlete and can open up the run game, Wilson is better at throwing on the move and creating plays outside of structure.

Whichever one actually ends up as QB2 in this class will be determined purely by personal preference, because there's a good chance there's no wrong answer here. Dec 19, 2020; Atlanta, Georgia, USA; Alabama Crimson Tide quarterback Mac Jones (10) throws a pass during the first quarter against the Florida Gators in the SEC Championship at Mercedes-Benz Stadium. Credit: Dale Zanine-USA TODAY Sports

THE POCKET PASSERS: ALABAMA'S MAC JONES AND FLORIDA'S KYLE TRASK

While dubbing them “pocket passers” might be selling their mobility a tad short, if you're drafting one of these players in the first round, it's because of the way they can operate a passing game from inside the pocket. While both are surrounded with impressive collections of playmakers, both are taking their respective offenses to heights we rarely see, thanks to NFL-caliber quarterbacking.

Jones' calling card is his anticipation and timing within the Alabama offense. Every read and every throw looks as if it's manifested straight out of the playbook. You simply won't see Jones late to many windows. It's difficult not to get similar vibes to Joe Burrow‘s 2019 season at LSU when you watch Jones pick apart SEC defenses (despite middling arm strength). At the very least, he's outperforming former teammate and top-five pick Tua Tagovailoa in every conceivable passing metric. That's without Jerry Jeudy, Henry Ruggs III and now Jaylen Waddle mind you.

As for Trask, his calling card is his downfield ball placement. He already has tied Burrow's Power 5 record for big-time throws with 41 on over 150 fewer dropbacks. Trask had seven against Alabama's vaunted defense in the SEC title game alone. For a quarterback in just his second year starting (he backed up Miami quarterback D'Eriq King in high school), Trask's arrow is pointing up. Jan 11, 2020; Frisco, Texas, USA; North Dakota State Bison quarterback Trey Lance (5) scrambles from James Madison Dukes safety D'Angelo Amos (24) in the third quarter at Toyota Stadium. Credit: Tim Heitman-USA TODAY Sports

THE PRODIGIOUS RAW TOOLS: NORTH DAKOTA STATE'S TREY LANCE

You won't find a quarterback with a better combination of arm strength and athleticism in the 2021 draft. Yes, not even Lawrence can match Lance's tools.

As wild as it sounds, there might be no human more important to Lance's draft stock than Bills quarterback Josh Allen. Allen's emergence as an MVP candidate this season after toiling as a near replacement-level quarterback his first two seasons is a massive win for strong-armed, athletic quarterbacks everywhere. With his completion percentage leaping from 58.2% in 2019 to 68.7% so far in 2020, Allen has proved the once unthinkable: Accuracy can be coached.

If you're drafting Lance with a high pick, that's the idea on which you're banking. The numbers bear out that he's still got a ways to go in terms of ball placement. Only 47.1% of his passes in his career were deemed to have accurate ball placement. No other quarterback on this list or the ones drafted in 2019 had a percentage below 55.0%. While the comparative lack of screens and RPOs in North Dakota State's offense is a factor, that's still a tough pill to swallow.

Lance still provides a high floor with his rushing ability and the way he takes care of the ball. He has only six career turnover-worthy plays on 384 dropbacks and ran for 1,150 yards with 40 broken tackles on 134 attempts in his lone season as a starter.

---

What separates this class of quarterbacks — at least the five we've gotten to see play multiple games this year — from any we've seen in recent history is the level of performance on a college football field. These guys are not only supremely talented, but that talent is translating to tangible results. Here's how the highest-graded passing season from each stacks up against those of the 2018 quarterback class, which was the only one to have more than three first-rounders since PFF started grading college in 2014.

QB	GRADE	QB	GRADE
* Grade from one game
Baker Mayfield	94.6	Zach Wilson	95.2
Sam Darnold	86.7	Mac Jones	94.3
Josh Allen	84.6	Kyle Trask	92.6
Josh Rosen	83.4	Justin Fields	92.4
Lamar Jackson	75.6	Trevor Lawrence	90.8
		Trey Lance*	88.7

Unless one of the quarterbacks above bombs in his bowl game, four of the 10 highest-graded passing seasons we've seen in our seven years of grading college football will come from the 2021 quarterback class. The only other draft class with multiple such seasons was the 2018 class, and that's only because Baker Mayfield is in the top 10 twice.

Of course, the draft is still an inexact science. The top quarterback class since PFF started grading college was one that came with some of the least fanfare. The 2017 quarterback class featured the second- and third-highest-graded quarterbacks in the NFL currently. Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson were in no way billed as such coming out of college — or else those two wouldn't have fallen to 10th and 12th overall respectively.

Whether the 2021 class ends up looking like 1999 or 1983 a decade from now remains to be seen. All we can evaluate is what we know at the moment, and the 2021 quarterback class offers an influx of talent at the position the NFL hasn't seen in quite some time.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

ESPN article about possible QB scenarios, here was the WFT part

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/30587969/2021-offseason-nfl-quarterback-dominoes-jets-keep-sam-darnold-carson-wentz-dak-prescott-get-traded

 

Washington signs QB Cam Newton to a one-year, $7.5 million deal.

Newton hasn't had an incredible season with the Patriots, as the former MVP ranks 29th in the league in Total QBR. It's also fair to note that he has been playing with the worst group of weapons in football and was waylaid for several weeks by the coronavirus, which dragged down his numbers. Crucially, Newton has made it through the full season without getting injured, which might have seemed impossible after his 2018 and 2019 campaigns.

Washington might be rebuilding at quarterback after this season, and Ron Rivera saw how far a healthy Newton can take a team in years past. This deal assumes that Washington moves on from Alex Smith, but it wouldn't preclude the team from bringing somebody in to compete with Newton.

 

 

Washington trades a third-round pick to the Jets for QB Sam Darnold.

With the Jets planning to use the second overall pick on a quarterback, they'll end up taking the best available offer for their previous starter. Darnold hasn't looked great at any point in 2020, with only a throw or two per game hinting at his possible upside. Washington might be ready to move on from 2019 first-round pick Dwayne Haskins after he was spotted at a club after Sunday's loss to the Seahawks, and while Alex Smith's comeback story is incredible, the veteran's $18.8 million base salary in 2021 is unguaranteed.

Washington could approach the Darnold addition in a number of ways. It could decline Darnold's fifth-year option for 2022 and let the No. 3 pick in the 2018 draft play out the final year of his rookie deal, although team owner Daniel Snyder might not be particularly excited about using the franchise tag on a quarterback after the Kirk Cousins fiasco.

The team could also pick up that option and essentially commit to Darnold as its starter in 2021 and 2022. Alternately, it could try to negotiate a new contract with Darnold, one that would likely guarantee him more money in 2021 while also allowing the organization to get out of the deal after this upcoming season.