Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

So we've narrowed down our QB prospects now, at least eliminating one more QB.

This rules out Beuchele, at least.

 

 

 

Agree, also when Rivera was saying this it screamed to that he was using Haskins as a code to really be describing Buechele... 😀

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, RWJ said:

Love your post and opinions, SIP.  HigSkin and UK74 and others throw in your comments as well as I hope you read this.  Who do you ALL think fits what RR has describes as "His" QB for the WFT?  Respond back, please and I'll give you my best guess. 

 

His description of toughness actually fits a bunch of the QBs we've talked about.   Heck I am not a Darnold guy, but he's definitely tough and a good teammate by reputation.  So is Mariota reputation wise.

 

Of the FA QBs, it makes me think of Fitzpatrick but some others, too.  In other segments, Rivera pumped up leadership.  Mariota and Darnold have been touted by some teammates as good leaders but reporters who have covered them have said they are both kind of quiet and they wouldn't describe them to be leaders.  

 

If you want intangibles, IMO Fitzpatrick is screaming with them.  His teammates respond to him as a dude more so than the other 2nd tier-3rd tier types we talk about here as far as I can tell. 

[88Comrade2000]

6 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

That tends to happen when we lose 8-10 games, wasting another season of this defense and the cheap contract years of our young playmakers...which is bound to happen this year barring a miracle or a big surprise breakout at QB. Check back in January of any individual season here and it’s highly likely many don’t like whoever the starting QBs were for it. 

Well, Ron made the Choice to try to win in 20.  That took us out of being able to draft the top QBs, unless we give up a ton  of picks.

 

Also, it’s just our bad luck that so many teams need a QB and those teams draft ahead of us.

 

So, it’s really doubtful we find our long term qb.

 

So, we are relying on either a stopgap QB or TH or Kyle.

[DWinzit]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you want intangibles, IMO Fitzpatrick is screaming with them.  His teammates respond to him as a dude more so than the other 2nd tier-3rd tier types we talk about here as far as I can tell. 

Yup, Fitz is heads and shoulders over all the others. He would bring immediate impact to the locker room and even give reason for his ex-team mate FA's to want to come to DC.

 

My only thought on a Fitz move is he would be a 1-2 year answer. RR has made it a point to say he really wants a leader for the future. He would be squashing Heinicke's opportunity and the with 3 QB's signed, are we closed for QB business for the year? I feel like a Mariota, Winston or Darnold (cough) type wold have opportunity to be the guy for years to come.

[Conn]

Where are the 5-7 delusional people here that died spectacularly on the “Haskins’ work ethic problems were a media creation and complete hearsay” hill? Rivera would like a word with you. 

[JoggingGod]

1 hour ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Well, Ron made the Choice to try to win in 20

That’s not a choice. Everyone is trying to win.

[Ashburn Dave]

1 hour ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Well, Ron made the Choice to try to win in 20.  That took us out of being able to draft the top QBs, unless we give up a ton  of picks.

 

He made the right choice IMO too.  Creating a winning attitude and environment is the goal for long term success.

[Warhead36]

16 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

That’s not a choice. Everyone is trying to win.

Not Doug Pederson in the finale lolol

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 hours ago, Ashburn Dave said:

 

He made the right choice IMO too.  Creating a winning attitude and environment is the goal for long term success.

Yeah, we won't have  a QB and we won't have enough talent before we hamstring ourselves with a ridiculously expensive DL. But we'll be able to look back and say "hey, remember that season we went 7-9 and lost a playoff game? That's the reason we're a powerhouse team now"

[mistertim]

11 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Couldn’t disagree with you more on everything—Cam and Bill seem wired very similarly to me in how they approach the game. Also, I can easily argue Bill is the more immature/self centered one when speaking to the media before and after games (wins or losses). 
 

The TE stuff is just non sense. Cam Newton is a borderline Hall of Fame QB.

 

I feel like this is just a bit of a stretch; I don't think he'll sniff the HoF. Outside of one year, Cam has never really been much of an actual QB. His biggest asset has always been his threat to run the ball. As a passer he's very mediocre at best IMO. 

 

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Not Doug Pederson in the finale lolol

 

I have no idea what you could possibly be implying. Putting Nate Sudfeld in the game when it was neck and neck was clearly the logical winning move.

Edited March 13, 2021 by mistertim

[wit33]

26 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I feel like this is just a bit of a stretch; I don't think he'll sniff the HoF. Outside of one year, Cam has never really been much of an actual QB. His biggest asset has always been his threat to run the ball. As a passer he's very mediocre at best IMO. 

 

 

 

Who cares how you get it done or how you dominate a game. He uniquely impacts a game and has provided his teams with an elite ceiling through the course of his career. Running the football as a QB is a great thing and he didn’t let himself be squeezed into a box of how to do things as a QB. The alternative is RG3 and his need to be accepted by all the external forces and lost himself and career as a starter. 
 

I say he’s on the fringe of Hall of Fame, but another good to great season and playoff run with the Pats may seal it. One of the greatest running threats the game has seen. 
 

Fans at times, in my opinion get too caught up in how a guy should or shouldn’t do it and fail to see the impact that player makes on a game. Yes, I’m accusing you of this  With zero animosity  

Edited March 13, 2021 by wit33

[RWJ]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

His description of toughness actually fits a bunch of the QBs we've talked about.   Heck I am not a Darnold guy, but he's definitely tough and a good teammate by reputation.  So is Mariota reputation wise.

 

Of the FA QBs, it makes me think of Fitzpatrick but some others, too.  In other segments, Rivera pumped up leadership.  Mariota and Darnold have been touted by some teammates as good leaders but reporters who have covered them have said they are both kind of quiet and they wouldn't describe them to be leaders.  

 

If you want intangibles, IMO Fitzpatrick is screaming with them.  His teammates respond to him as a dude more so than the other 2nd tier-3rd tier types we talk about here as far as I can tell. 

It tells me Fitzpatrick also.  Out of all the QBs I could come up with and I went back and looked at profiles, Fitz seemed to fit best.  

9 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Of the options available, I think Mariota is the most likely. However, I reckon he is going to lift some serious coin in a deal with someone. The Raiders have cleared 50mil in space so they have negated the initial ‘need’ to cut him. That makes me think they are still trying to trade him pre release. Carr would be better but that chatter seems to have gone away....

 

Got to admit, I hope we bring someone else in with the next 2-3 days, either by trade this weekend, or by agreeing terms very early on in the legal tampering period.

 

Edit - Forgot to add that Fitzmagic is also lurking in the background....

I have to agree with SIP.  See my reply to him, UK74. 

[KDawg]

15 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

So we've narrowed down our QB prospects now, at least eliminating one more QB.

This rules out Beuchele, at least.

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree, also when Rivera was saying this it screamed to that he was using Haskins as a code to really be describing Buechele... 😀

 

 

 

 

I feel like I missed a good joke somewhere...

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Who cares how you get it done or how you dominate a game. He uniquely impacts a game and has provided his teams with an elite ceiling through the course of his career. Running the football as a QB is a great thing and he didn’t let himself be squeezed into a box of how to do things as a QB. The alternative is RG3 and his need to be accepted by all the external forces and lost himself and career as a starter. 
 

I say he’s on the fringe of Hall of Fame, but another good to great season and playoff run with the Pats may seal it. One of the greatest running threats the game has seen. 
 

Fans at times, in my opinion get too caught up in how a guy should or shouldn’t do it and fail to see the impact that player makes on a game. Yes, I’m accusing you of this  With zero animosity  

 

I get where you're coming from but I just think that for a QB to get into the HOF he should actually be a good passer, which IMO Cam really never has been outside of one season (and even in that season he didn't crack 60% completion).

 

Steve Young was the OG dual threat guy and his ability to scramble and run made him all the more effective as well, but as a pure passer in and of itself he was also elite. Cam isn't even close to his level.

 

I still don't think Cam will sniff the HOF. The fact that he's only 31 and at the moment seems to be on a pretty steep downslope of his career doesn't help him either in that regard.

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

I feel like I missed a good joke somewhere...

Probably so although u started with the Buechele spoofing. But it least we all tried albeit failed.  😀  A Darnold trade possibly looming brings some tension so anything to break the mood. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[clskinsfan]

59 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Who cares how you get it done or how you dominate a game. He uniquely impacts a game and has provided his teams with an elite ceiling through the course of his career. Running the football as a QB is a great thing and he didn’t let himself be squeezed into a box of how to do things as a QB. The alternative is RG3 and his need to be accepted by all the external forces and lost himself and career as a starter. 
 

I say he’s on the fringe of Hall of Fame, but another good to great season and playoff run with the Pats may seal it. One of the greatest running threats the game has seen. 
 

Fans at times, in my opinion get too caught up in how a guy should or shouldn’t do it and fail to see the impact that player makes on a game. Yes, I’m accusing you of this  With zero animosity  

Thing is. Cam has never really been a huge threat in the passing game. And his play slipped considerably last season. He was straight up pathetic in the 2nd half of last season. HOF QB's dont really have pathetic years. 

[evmiii]

All I’m seeing online these days is about the WFT’s interest in Trey Lance.  It seems we used one of our three authorized college days at North Dakota State.  All indications seem to say we need to get ahead of Carolina at 8. (I’m not sure he gets past 4).  Assuming he is still there at 7, what would it cost to get Detroit’s pick?
 

Swap #1’s this year, first next year (2022), first next year ((2023).  If you knew he was the next Patrick Mahomes you take that deal without hesitation.  I’m not so sure what he is.  A great athlete, tough kid, strong arm, great wheels with some accuracy issues.

 

What does everyone think?  Do we take this deal if available.

 

 

 

[PartyPosse]

If there’s debate about the worthiness of Flacco and Eli Manning into the HoF then Cam doesn’t stand a chance.

[wit33]

33 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Thing is. Cam has never really been a huge threat in the passing game. And his play slipped considerably last season. He was straight up pathetic in the 2nd half of last season. HOF QB's dont really have pathetic years. 

 
Pathetic by old school metrics. Most share his TD to Int ratio and completely ignore his rushing TD totals from last year. He was not pathetic when factoring in his impact on the run game and how that can provide easy passes in an offense. 
 

Brady was average in his last season with Pats and “pathetic” in their playoff loss to Titans. Many HOF QBs have average type seasons, just because their TD to InT ratio is solid in those seasons doesn’t equate to a great season. 
 

The Pats skill players are pathetic. Bill B the goat coach wants to run it back, has to say something, right? Or the “Patriots are a step ahead of everyone”, no longer applies? 

25 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

If there’s debate about the worthiness of Flacco and Eli Manning into the HoF then Cam doesn’t stand a chance.

If matching primes of those guys, I take Cam every day of the week. 

[ODU AGGIE]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

Thing is. Cam has never really been a huge threat in the passing game. And his play slipped considerably last season. He was straight up pathetic in the 2nd half of last season. HOF QB's dont really have pathetic years. 

 

I guess that leaves Eli out.

[PartyPosse]

34 minutes ago, wit33 said:

If matching primes of those guys, I take Cam every day of the week. 

It’s not the Fantasy HoF. Regardless I don’t think any of the three should get in. 

[clskinsfan]

9 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

 

I guess that leaves Eli out.

Eli won 2 Super Bowls and I dont think he is a Hall of Famer either. He will most likely get in off of those 2 wins though. Every other multi SB winning QB is in the hall. 

[PartyPosse]

57 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Brady was average in his last season with Pats and “pathetic” in their playoff loss to Titans. Many HOF QBs have average type seasons, just because their TD to InT ratio is solid in those seasons doesn’t equate to a great season. 

Based on what we saw from cam and the rest of the Pats anemic offense this year and considering it’s pretty much the same offense, some would argue that Brady’s last season in NE was one of his finest.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, evmiii said:

All I’m seeing online these days is about the WFT’s interest in Trey Lance.  It seems we used one of our three authorized college days at North Dakota State.  All indications seem to say we need to get ahead of Carolina at 8. (I’m not sure he gets past 4).  Assuming he is still there at 7, what would it cost to get Detroit’s pick?
 

Swap #1’s this year, first next year (2022), first next year ((2023).  If you knew he was the next Patrick Mahomes you take that deal without hesitation.  I’m not so sure what he is.  A great athlete, tough kid, strong arm, great wheels with some accuracy issues.

 

What does everyone think?  Do we take this deal if available.

 

 

IMO as a prospect, Trey Lance isn't even in the same echelon as Mahomes was.

 

Mahomes was a 2.5 year starter who absolutely killed it for most of that time and got progressively better in each season while setting multiple records. He also played against top college competition as well as being on a team with a crappy defense where where he had to put the team on his back and pass a ton just to try and keep them in games (he threw the ball 88 times vs Oklahoma in 2016).

 

Lance is a 1 year starter who put up good stats in 2019 but he was also playing on a loaded team that was heavily run oriented, had a good defense, and played against teams that were almost always far inferior to them talent-wise.

 

Mahomes was also much more of a shifty scrambler who used his athleticism to buy time and make plays when protection broke down, but without many designed runs. Lance is more of a "running QB". I also think Lance has a good arm but not really very close to what Mahomes has.

 

Lance has lots of raw physical talent but at the moment he's basically all potential. Giving up two future 1st round picks to move up for him would be nuts to me.

Edited March 13, 2021 by mistertim

[-9-]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

Steve Young was the OG dual threat ...

 

not so fast my friend ...