Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m going to say this: I don’t think a Stafford trade is at all good for this franchise’s ability to build on a strong defense. I think it handicaps is really, really badly from a lot of different points of view.

 

In no way, shape or form do I want to spend our first on him.

 

Having said that... if they do the (in my opinion), short sighted appease the crowd move, then I’d love to see what Stafford can do. He’s a good QB who will make the passing attack much better than it is. 

 

I think Stafford would make a strong impact.  Earlier this season, I wouldn't have felt the same.   But our secondary is better than I expected.  The safeties situation looks better than it did earlier in the season.  Thomas is a better TE than I thought.  The O line looks better than earlier in the season.  I don't think we have a zillion holes.    We have some holes still for sure.  But the roster looks stronger than some of us thought including myself.  

 

But I am not married to Stafford.  I am married to upgrading that spot period.  But Stafford to me is an attractive option. 

 

 

 

[CapsSkins]

I just think it's strange to say a top 10 QB who can play for another 5-7 years would handicap this team.

[DazedSkinsfan]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think Stafford would make a strong impact.  Earlier this season, I wouldn't have felt the same.   But our secondary is better than I expected.  The safeties situation looks better than it did earlier in the season.  Thomas is a better TE than I thought.  The O line looks better than earlier in the season.  I don't think we have a zillion holes.    We have some holes still for sure.  But the roster looks stronger than some of us thought including myself.  

 

But I am not married to Stafford.  I am married to upgrading that spot period.  But Stafford to me is an attractive option. 

 

 

 

I think you have said it several times and many folks would agree that a big upgrade at QB and this team is a legitimate Super bowl contender.  I would love to see what Stafford could here but feel like its a very expensive pipe dream.   So that leaves us with Darnold,  a more reasonable and cost efficient choice.  Do you believe he would be a "upgrade" compared to what's already on the roster?  We all know what he's accomplished so far or better yet what he hasn't accomplished,  but is that due to skill set or more so being a part of the Jets organization?

[86 Snyder]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Hurts is a wildcard.  But Wentz looks like is oddly sinking fast so Hurts might be an improvement for them.  They typically have a good defense.  Their O line though was ravaged this year with injuries.   But they can bounce back next season.  I have been one of the tougher critics of Daniel Jones but I don't think I can confidently say what we got right now is that much better.  In short, IMO we need an upgrade at QB. 

 

Oh I agree completely.  We *absolutely* need a QB and Wentz is catering.  Just saying, I dont see anything all that special about Hurts.  Its fine with me if he flashes a little and takes the seat over there for a couple years.  I seriously doubt he is a problem long term for us.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Oh I agree completely.  We *absolutely* need a QB and Wentz is catering.  Just saying, I dont see anything all that special about Hurts.  Its fine with me if he flashes a little and takes the seat over there for a couple years.  I seriously doubt he is a problem long term for us.

 

I got no idea one way or another (sample size too small) aside from right now the Eagles look better with Hurts than they do Wentz.  Jones to me is mediocre.  Dak was emerging as a good QB but is coming back from injury.  This could be the window to make a run.  I suspect the rest of the NFC East won't be as bad as they were this season but its not my main concern -- my main thing is to exploit a top 5 defense that's cheap while the going is good.  

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, DazedSkinsfan said:

I think you have said it several times and many folks would agree that a big upgrade at QB and this team is a legitimate Super bowl contender.  I would love to see what Stafford could here but feel like its a very expensive pipe dream.   So that leaves us with Darnold,  a more reasonable and cost efficient choice.  Do you believe he would be a "upgrade" compared to what's already on the roster?  We all know what he's accomplished so far or better yet what he hasn't accomplished,  but is that due to skill set or more so being a part of the Jets organization?

 

It being a pipe dream to me is a bit strong IMO as to Stafford being available.  But I agree I'd bet against that they make him available.   I think there is a shot though.   

It's tough for me to get jazzed about Darnold.  But having said that in the off season I'll take some time and watch some of his games more closely and maybe land on a different take.   I've seen some of his Jets games and they left me with a "meh" feeling about him but i haven't really looked hard at context, etc. 

 

At a minimum Stafford is much more talented than Darnold and accomplished.   What I liked about Darnold before the draft is for a big dude he could throw well on the run via boots, etc.  But I got to dive into watching him again. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It being a pipe dream to me is a bit strong IMO as to Stafford being available.  But I agree I'd bet against that they make him available.   I think there is a shot though.   

It's tough for me to get jazzed about Darnold.  But having said that in the off season I'll take some time and watch some of his games more closely and maybe land on a different take.   I've seen some of his Jets games and they left me with a "meh" feeling about him but i haven't really looked hard at context, etc. 

 

At a minimum Stafford is much more talented than Darnold and accomplished.   What I liked about Darnold before the draft is for a big dude he could throw well on the run via boots, etc.  But I got to dive into watching him again. 

 

I would bet on one of Stafford, Carr and Ryan being made available. The first two guys are in one bucket and Ryan is in another bucket given his age. 

[The Rook]

52 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

I don't see anything sustainable about Hurts.  Hes mobile, yeah, moves around really well but its not elite like Lamar or Kyler.  As a passer he has a loooong way to go.

 

He seems like someone who'll have a nice little start to their career and will get clamped up pretty easily once there's a decent amount of tape on him.  

 

I am zero percent bothered by him being in the division, same as I am Daniel Jones.

 

We will get to see him on the last week.  Good time to evaluate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[CurseReversed]

On 12/19/2020 at 10:53 PM, VaK9Trainer said:

Been watching a lot of Mac Jones. There's something about this kid. Call me crazy but I see a lot of Tom Brady in him. Great touch on the deep ball, Quick release and great pocket awareness. He's the guy I want us to draft!! 

He has a calmness and instinct in the pocket that is hard to teach.  This is the most important trait I Iook for in a QB.  Not just movement in the pocket but the ability to still make quality throws within it, when big bodies are around.   He might end up being the best qb in the draft besides lawrence.  I wouldnt even be mad if they had to trade up a little to get him, but It would be very fortunate if they could get him outright in the first wherever they pick.

[Skin'emAlive]

Now that I see Rivera named Alex starter if healthy, the Dwayne experiment ends for me. Stafford or Darnold are the best options for me going forward. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[BurgundyBooger]

Personally not sold on Stafford.

 

From 2011-2013, the Lions had the top 5-6 defense in league, Stafford threw for nearly 15,000 yards in that span, and they only won 21 games in those 3 years.

 

Some would blame poor coaching, and to an extent I'd agree, but I've never been a big fan of the modern day NFL gunslinger. They put up huge numbers and, given a long enough career, become first ballot Hall of Famers, but their improvisational plays and highlight throws come with the caveat of costly turnovers, especially at times when the margin of error is so thin, like in the playoffs.

 

Is Stafford an improvement over what we have? Yes. But he would be a costly one and I don't think the few positives he'd bring to this team would outweigh those negatives. I'd much prefer we explore a game-manager who can move the chains and avoid making costly mistakes. I really want the team to look at Jacoby Brissett. Young, smart, and a great teammate going by reports. I think Ron can really tutor this kid better than his treatment in Indy, and he has the prerequisite skillset/experience to win us a lot of games.

[Warhead36]

You're in coo coo land if you'd take Jacoby Brissett over Matt Stafford.

[zCommander]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

You're in coo coo land if you'd take Jacoby Brissett over Matt Stafford.

 

Would you pay a 1st and a 3rd for Stafford? Would it be worth it. 

[Stone Cold]

Stafford is garbage.  If for no other reason than that dude pimped us for Detroit’s first win in 2 seasons....and he did it like he was Joe Willy or something. I hate that dude for that reason and that reason alone.  Hard pass for me lol

Edited December 22, 2020 by Stone Cold

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-realistic-trade-value-and-landing-spots-for-veteran-qbs-stafford-garoppolo-carr-ryan-wentz

Stafford has two years remaining on his contract, with a $20 million cap charge in 2021 and a $22.5 in 2022 for an acquiring team. These are very team-friendly terms for anyone looking to trade for Stafford.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[method man]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

REBUILDING TEAMS

Next, we’ll take a look at a few veteran quarterbacks with new head coaches and general managers on the way. This is not uncharted territory for Matthew Stafford, who will have his fifth head coach and third general manager in Detroit.

Stafford showed this week exactly why a trade may be unlikely, with his reputation as one of the toughest quarterbacks in the NFL on full display. Stafford has a very high floor at quarterback, and a new regime can sell themselves on the notion that Stafford has been limited by a disastrous organizational situation. They can be the ones to finally tap Stafford’s potential, and at 33 years old, there's plenty of football left. 

 

Nevertheless, you never know if a new head coach and general manager would prefer a fresh start. Stafford has two years remaining on his contract, with a $20 million cap charge in 2021 and a $22.5 in 2022 for an acquiring team. These are very team-friendly terms for anyone looking to trade for Stafford.

 

 

Washington is no stranger to this type of move, because the team already did it with Alex Smith. Smith’s comeback has, of course, been nothing short of spectacular, but he’s not a legitimate answer at quarterback going forward if Washington wants to take the next step. Ron Rivera and this defense may win the lowly NFC East in their first season, which is great in terms of building a new culture in Washington. But it would put them out of reach for any of the top quarterback prospects. They may already be on the outside looking in.

A good 2021 draft class and a healthy Stafford could make Washington an immediate contender. 

 

 

 

This guy has every team acquiring a veteran QB overpaying. I think we are looking at a 1st round pick max and this goes down the if Carr and Ryan hit the trade market. If the Lions are in position to get a top 4 QB, I think they'd be willing to give up Stafford for something like a 2nd + Settle

[NoCalMike]

The thing is, overpaying for QB's is the norm.  Any QB in the NFL worth a lick is going to be overpaid eventually, it's a matter of what the team that is overpaying them is getting out of it.  If you are getting a veteran QB that can make the team a contender pretty much immediately (coupled with some other signings and draft picks) how is that not worth it?  The alternative is to draft a QB which they can still do and have them sit and learn behind the vet.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, method man said:

 

This guy has every team acquiring a veteran QB overpaying. I think we are looking at a 1st round pick max and this goes down the if Carr and Ryan hit the trade market. If the Lions are in position to get a top 4 QB, I think they'd be willing to give up Stafford for something like a 2nd + Settle

 

Don't know.  Depends on the competition for him. I suspect they get a first for him especially if its a late first.   It should be a really entertaining off season.  I am not married to Stafford by any stretch but I think some underestimate his talent and I don't think he's ever played with a defense like this unless I am misrecalling.  I know their current defense is wretched.

 

For all we know the best veterans to hit the market could be Brissett, Rivers and Jimmy G.  Too bad the draft doesn't come up before FA.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

I think we traded a pick this year to acquire our starting QB (Kyle Allen).  Be nice to get our hands on Mac Jones by trading down in the late 1st round as our QB of the future.  JMO.  

[SweatSuit]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Once we started losing and we looked bad, I was in favor of losing if we weren't going to the playoffs or playing poorly where we were simply the best of the bad lot.  But if we both play well and make the playoffs that's a different drill for me.  I was on the record on this thread of rooting for them to beat the Steelers.  Beating them to me would be a much bigger deal than eking by the Bengals.  The Cowboys and Steelers game back to back showed me they could be a good team.  I didn't get that same vibe earlier in the season. 

 

As for the Hurts GOAT comment.  I get the snark but save it for PFF who actually made the comment not the dude who said their comment was hyperbole. 🙄

I can see not being upset with the result of a loss AFTER the game is played. I can even get behind hoping for a loss for example in the Giants game last year which is the difference between being able to draft a Chase Young or not. Especially when the then current regime is about to pack their bags anyway. But I will never agree actively rooting for a loss or sitting watching a game and hoping for a loss with a brand new coaching regime trying to instill a winning culture with the division in reach still just so that we have a shot at a college prospect that could or could not be good. And with our track record of developing the position and the overall impatience of the fan base that seems even sillier. Your position on here is well documented for those paying attention which is you need a QB to do anything in this league and your best shot at one is tops in the draft.

 

Now, I do agree with your premise on the surface which is you are likelier to find that guy in the top 3 but I absolutely disagree with the premise that finishing tops in the draft and securing a Fields or Wilson or whatever outweighs the importance of instilling a brand new culture and teaching a young team filled with talent how to actually win football games. Trust me, after a 1-7 start I began to console myself with draft position too. It’s nice to have hope and excitement in the next new shiny toy coming out of school. But I just can’t ever imagine hoping the team loses going into the game, foreign concept to me. Hoping a 21 or 22 year old kid can turn around a 30 year losing program that continues to lose year over year is a tall tall task. I’d much prefer the team actually win and grow as a team and then make a (reasonable) move for a guy they believe in to be the franchise QB going forward.
 

The overall point though was that QBs can be had anywhere throughout the draft. Hurts is the latest example of a QB flying under the radar for whatever reason and finding some early success. No reason to root for losses (in this context) when it’s been pointed out time and time again that you don’t need a top 3 pick to find that guy. And I totally know you weren’t saying he was the GOAT, I was just making fun of the general buzz surrounding the guy. He looked good to be sure but a couple good games isn’t enough to make me believe he’s going to find long term success in this league. Though if I’m being honest with myself, I’ve always admired Hurts and his demeanor from afar, and it wouldn’t surprise me if he ends up great. He’s got the right mindset dating back to his college days. Hurts he’s on the Eagles (pun intended). 

[Est.1974]

Interestingly Stafford wears #9 in Detroit because the #7 jersey that he wore in college is a retired number in Detroit.

So, when he came here he would want Dwayne's #7 

[Simmsy]

You guys are weird, all these years we've talked and moaned about needing a QB...and you guys WANT Stafford. If we're going to take a used QB, I'd like to see what Tyrod Taylor could do here. I think I've seen enough of Stafford, I would rather give a chance to someone who has a chance.

[KDawg]

12 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

I just think it's strange to say a top 10 QB who can play for another 5-7 years would handicap this team.

To each their own.

 

Loss of a first rounder being on a young, cheap asset who would be molded here. Cap space.

 

I don’t think our team is built in a way that signing a big name QB grown elsewhere is the recipe for success. Especially considering his torso injuries piling up. 
 

It’s not strange. It’s a difference of opinion. I am looking long term. You are looking short term in a window that may not even exist and hoping the guy can play 5-7 years (we have no idea) and wants to stay here for more than the remainder of his current contract.

 

I’d rather continue to build. We’re finally doing it the right way.