Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[HigSkin]

 

[Andre The Giant]

3 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

The gates are opening and all of the other QB's are seeing the $$$ signs. Wilson is the last one I thought would pull this. Its open season now. If Watson pulls it off all hell is going to break loose.

i think they’re seeing the “roster control” signs.  They saw Brady get what he wanted in Tampa (Gronk, AB) and win a SB.  They want that too. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Andre The Giant

[drowland]

I could see Russ having some Pete Carroll fatigue.  He probably would like to play for an offensive mind like Sean Payton or Kyle Shanahan.  

[HigSkin]

 

[PartyPosse]

Getting Ben is like Indy getting Rivers last year. 

 

Dumb.

[Andre The Giant]

 

[CommDownMan]

9 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Getting Ben is like Indy getting Rivers last year. 

 

Dumb.

 

True, but I'd tell myself if was a Haskins for Ben trade and feel better about it.

[“Misdirection”]

20 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Just play your last few years and retire instead of being a ****ing baby and blaming your team for your short comings. Gimme a break Wilson.

idk why this is surprising. Yeah it’d be nice if they would just follow orders and play where they are but that’s not the world today. 
 

this is becoming the NBA at QB. We all know the value of QBs, and they’re finally coming to realize the power they have. 
 

Brady and Manning both won by going to a new team that was ready to win now. And they were able to bring in their guys and do it their way.

 

who, at the top of their craft like Wilson or Rodgers, wouldn’t want that? Anyone at that level of play has enough ego (or experience) to believe they could do the same 

[heyholetsgogrant]

13 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

 

 

Wonder if owners will put the grip on in the next CBA?

[wit33]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I did.  He played a basically 1.33 seasons in Tampa.  He also ran for almost 700 yards in that span.   Sample size isn't the same.  Their styles and attributes aren't the same.  If your point is Young was a late bloomer.  Indeed he was.  But he's not a similar QB stylistically to Darnold.

 

Stylistically by going off memory (highlights), there were some wild and crazy scrambles by Young that resulted in many bad/wreckless plays in Tampa, but you could see a magician was at work from a scrambling standpoint that remind me of Darnold highlights. I’m sure there were many bad plays and stare downs taking place for Young on a historically bad team and being young. I believe in my now 25 minutes of viewing Darnold highlights he has some magician in him from a scrambling standpoint and an ability to make off platform throws. Putting Young’s name is me engaging a bit purposely in hyperbole, but there a some parallels one can draw up if they choose to do so. 

 

 

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Young was spry and fast at least in QB terms especially for that age.  Darnold is slower than Kirk, just under 4.9.   Darnold can be elusive in the pocket but he's not a dude who is rushing for yards much.  Darnold isn't fast. 

 

 

He’s cat quick though in all directions. He can capture an edge, avoid defenders, has great spatial awareness, explode up the A and B gaps. 
 

Yes, this sounds like a RB lol, this is where I’m placing all my intrigue and value in Darnold. 

[Darth Tater]

14 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

i think they’re seeing the “roster control” signs.  They saw Brady get what he wanted in Tampa (Gronk, AB) and win a SB.  They want that too. 

I think if Watson gets traded and the trade is a winner that is a bad thing for the NFL as a whole and probably fans of the 30 other teams in the league (Houston only because it might help them rebuild and the team that wins the trade).  It could also be an issue for he rest of the team on the field. Of course, we fans could just start rooting for the name on the back of a jersey.

[Skinsinparadise]

54 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Just play your last few years and retire instead of being a ****ing baby and blaming your team for your short comings. Gimme a break Wilson.

 

I'd show some homerism here.  You might be talking about the next WFT QB. 

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Mr. Sinister]

Just now, Andre The Giant said:

i think they’re seeing the “control” signs.  They saw Brady get what he wanted in Tampa (Gronk, AB) and win a SB.  They want that too. 

 

5 minutes ago, LLandryistheshiz said:

idk why this is surprising. Yeah it’d be nice if they would just follow orders and play where they are but that’s not the world today. 
 

this is becoming the NBA at QB. We all know the value of QBs, and they’re finally coming to realize the power they have. 
 

Brady and Manning both won by going to a new team that was ready to win now. And they were able to bring in their guys and do it their way.

 

who, at the top of their craft like Wilson or Rodgers, wouldn’t want that? Anyone at that level of play has enough ego (or experience) to believe they could do the same 

 

I mean, I feel like there can be endorsements made by players, but I think there need to be checks and balances. Players play, coaches coach, talent evaluators scout/evaluate talent.

 

One player being allowed to dictate the executive/player acquisition process is a bad move. It can't become the NBA, because there's just way more moving parts, and one player can have that kind of impact on a 15 man roster.

[Darth Tater]

17 minutes ago, LLandryistheshiz said:

idk why this is surprising. Yeah it’d be nice if they would just follow orders and play where they are but that’s not the world today. 
 

this is becoming the NBA at QB. We all know the value of QBs, and they’re finally coming to realize the power they have. 
 

Brady and Manning both won by going to a new team that was ready to win now. And they were able to bring in their guys and do it their way.

 

who, at the top of their craft like Wilson or Rodgers, wouldn’t want that? Anyone at that level of play has enough ego (or experience) to believe they could do the same 

True both Brady and Manning won on a new team but they didn't cost anything in terms of draft picks/players.  Brady also was not the only add by the Bucs this year and Manning won because of the defense built around him.

[Burgundy Yoda]

Does Carolina really think they're close? I think they're better off just drafting their guy.  

[CommDownMan]

45 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Yeah, but Tannehill was never as bad as Darnold.  I don't consider Tannehill to have ever at any point in his career as bad as Darnold. 

 

QBR 47.25 (Tannhill - Miami) vs 43.9 (Darnold - Jets), maybe other ways to compare tell a different story, but I'd say that is pretty close to equally bad.  Darnold is at least a bit worse, I just think Tannehill was worse then people remember.  If Darnold had a 20+ addition to QBR in the future he'd certainly be talked about different.

 

The off-season plan I just did in the FA thread, included Najee Harris.  Tannehill looks better in my mind partially because there is less pressure to be great and has a run game to support. Biggest difference in my mind is the ~5% improvement in accuracy. I don't think Darnold is worth the draft picks (so don't think this is me advocating for him).  I think if the trade market stays crazy that building like the Titans makes Allen/Heinicke or a 2nd/3rd round QB option better since we won't require great (to see dramatic improvement, I'd love to have great.... )

 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by jsharrin55

[Est.1974]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd show show some homerism here.  You might be talking about the next WFT QB. 

 

 

 

Great, those odds would give us a better shot at Carr or Dak 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Stylistically by going off memory (highlights), there were some wild and crazy scrambles by Young that resulted in many bad/wreckless plays in Tampa, but you could see a magician was at work from a scrambling standpoint that remind me of Darnold highlights.

 

He can be elusive in the pocket and throws well on the move.  Romo on that front would be a good comparison though Romo was IMO more elusive.   Romo wasn't fast.  Romo wasn't a dual threat.   Darnold is similar on that front but without Romo's accuracy or aggressiveness IMO.   Steve Young was one of the leagues better dual threats back in the day.   Darnold and Young don't strike me that similar. 

 

If Darnold's highlights remind you some of Young being a magician at work, you should watch some Zach Wilson.  Zach to me is miles close to a modern day Young.  He's incredibly elusive in the pocket and can actually run too if needed. 

 

3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

He’s cat quick though in all directions. He can capture an edge, avoid defenders, has great spatial awareness, explode up the A and B gaps. 
 

Yes, this sounds like a RB lol, this is where I’m placing all my intrigue and value in Darnold. 

 

Hard for me to think of a player who doesn't look hot when you focus on their best plays.   It sounds like you are describing his big run against Denver.  Those runs aren't an every game occurance.  The dude isn't Russell Wilson.  He's not running around the field for mega runs every game.  He averaged 3.7 YPC.  If you watch some full games you'd see that explosive runs aren't Darnold's game.  His game IMO is rolling in the pocket and throwing on the move -- mostly moving to the right. 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

QBR 47.25 (Tannhill - Miami) vs 43.9 (Darnold - Jets), maybe other ways to compare tell a different story, but I'd say that is pretty close to equally bad.  Darnold is at least a bit worse, I just think Tannehill was worse then people remember.  If Darnold had a 20+ addition to QBR in the future he'd certainly be talked about different.

I still like Tannehill's ability to throw over 20 TD's, considering like Darnold he's also a guy not known for pushing the ball. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'm a bit late to this but I really don't see the Peyton or Aikman comparisons when it comes to Sam Darnold.  After their 3rd season the Colts and Boys were not looking to trade their young QB, no by then they had progressed far further than Sam Darnold has.

 

No there is really no example of a QB like Sam Darnold going to another team and turning really good.  Tannehill is the best one and he started for 7 years in Miami and now is the benefit of the strongest running game in the league.  

[Darth Tater]

14 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Stylistically by going off memory (highlights), there were some wild and crazy scrambles by Young that resulted in many bad/wreckless plays in Tampa, but you could see a magician was at work from a scrambling standpoint that remind me of Darnold highlights. I’m sure there were many bad plays and stare downs taking place for Young on a historically bad team and being young. I believe in my now 25 minutes of viewing Darnold highlights he has some magician in him from a scrambling standpoint and an ability to make off platform throws. Putting Young’s name is me engaging a bit purposely in hyperbole, but there a some parallels one can draw up if they choose to do so. 

 

 

He’s cat quick though in all directions. He can capture an edge, avoid defenders, has great spatial awareness, explode up the A and B gaps. 
 

Yes, this sounds like a RB lol, this is where I’m placing all my intrigue and value in Darnold. 

Young cost the 49ers just a 2 and a 4 during pre-cap when finding young, cheap talent was not at the premium it is today and the team was already stacked. San Fran from 1978 to the late 90s was a machine at developing QBs. They were coached by the guy who more than anybody set the standards about how a QB prospect is judged today. Young had played for Holmgren, QB coach at San Fran (the man who really pushed for the trade) was Young's QB coach in college.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Die Hard said:

I'd be good with Big Ben for a year or 2.... only a team-friendly deal ($20M/year). Until a long-term solution is viable. Fill out the rest of the roster.... and give Ben a chance at a 'ship.

It wouldn’t be worst case especially given the weakness of our division, but his arm was looking late-stage Peyton by the end of this year. They couldn’t even utilize Claypool down the field like they did earlier in the season, it was tough to watch. 
 

That’s setting aside that they have a similarly good defense and much better offensive weapons than us and still only made it so far this season, not sure his odds at a SB are better here even if his odds at a division win and home playoff game might be higher, given the disparity in divisional competition.

[Darth Tater]

26 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

Tannehill was brought in for a discounted 4 as a backup for a team already with many things in place.

[CommDownMan]

2 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

Tannehill was brought in for a discounted 4 as a backup for a team already with many things in place.

 

This is going sideways, my only point I meant was Tannehill was a crappy QB that benefited from a change of scenery.

 

If you look back considering the 9.7 mill salary and the decline the 5th year option right away, I don't see any trade worth it for Darnold.  I'd take a shot if he was a FA, but that's not going to happen.

[wit33]

35 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

Young cost the 49ers just a 2 and a 4 during pre-cap when finding young, cheap talent was not at the premium it is today and the team was already stacked. San Fran from 1978 to the late 90s was a machine at developing QBs. They were coached by the guy who more than anybody set the standards about how a QB prospect is judged today. Young had played for Holmgren, QB coach at San Fran (the man who really pushed for the trade) was Young's QB coach in college.

All your points are valid. The Niners coach was Bill Walsh, just in case you didn’t know  jk
 

My position on Darnold is 100% speculative. I don’t really even like the prospects of a deal, because of his contract situation. The more I think about the contract the less inclined I am to give up #2, so that probably proves me out of a deal for the value I have him at. A 3 and a 5 would be might sweet spot. 
 

Im a sucker for playmaking and creativity at the QB spot. Put on nice scheme and talent around him and hone in the wreck-less plays and something might be there.

 

Like Jason Williams going to the Memphis Grizzlies and playing under Hubie Brown. For my fellow hoop fans. Darnold is the White Chocolate of the NFL