Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Koolblue13]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Congrads haha. I remember I mentioned him at the very very beginning of the QB frenzy and you locking me down over Darnold and I never brought him up again.

[Thinking Skins]

5 hours ago, CurseReversed said:

It seems like a waste of time to keep trying to make the argument that the WFT needs a top QB to be a top contender every year and that anyone that advocates for something other then this is missing some point.  Whether your a team first guy or a qb first guy, I think almost everyone agrees we want a top qb ASAP.  But how soon is possilbe?   They do not have the ammo to compete with other teams looking to trade up or the ammo to trade for a guy like Watson, who may not even be available.

 

Exactly and why is it that arguments that we could find the next Tannehill or Russell Wilson or Dak Prescott are always dismissed as if they're not even attempts or are just too unlikely to even be worth it. 

 

The talk is always about "the window", which before this year didn't exist and all of a sudden it is closing. But that's beside the point. The question is about what does it take to have a chance in the dance? What's the next step? People are talking about what we need to win a championship and some of us are asking what we need to be regularly playing meaningful games in November and December. We were doing that with Kirk. We were doing that with Alex. Now the board was full of debates on whether these guys were championship caliber QBs or QBs who were top tier and all that, but the fact was that in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 we had a chance to make the playoffs in December. 

 

I have no doubt in my mind that if we win 9 games in 2016, 2017 that we're in the playoffs and we'd have kept Cousins and not been down that route with the whole double franchise tag and letting him go for pennies. 2019 was trickier because with the Smith injury we would almost certainly be looking for a QB going into the offseason, but if we had won 9 games would the Case Keenum trade have been enough for Snyder to let Gruden pick a QB later in the draft (Minshew?). 

 

Some of us act like we're going to go immediately from being a couch potato to running marathons. You don't go from being a 3-13 team to being the 90s Steelers overnight. What I've been wanting for years is just consistency. Sheehan is talking about how he doesn't want one year of 11-5, but what have we had? We haven't had that since Gibbs 1. He wants a franchise guy but they're not grown on trees. We have to either get really REALLY lucky or simply develop a guy. 

 

 

[Ruzious]

McAfee's fun to listen to, but he's more entertainer than analyst.  Hard to believe he was a punter in the NFL - seems more like an ex linebacker.

 

Anyway... Wilson... the other Wilson - Zach.  I finally watched some extended video of him, and I'm convinced he's gonna be better than Fields and could even be better than Lawrence.  Not sure if he's closer to Favre or to Mahomes - just sure that he's a stud.  I'll even go 2 1sts and Jonathan Allen to get him, and I'm one who HATES to trade 1sts.        

[KDawg]

8 hours ago, Guard Bum said:

Wentz has aleast proven he’s capable of playing good football.  You don’t forget how to play so there is reasonable expectation he could return to form under the right circumstance.  I’m not confident we have that situation but I can understand taking the chance if the price is reasonable.

 

Darnold has never played winning football.  He sees ghosts!  I have no confidence that he is an upgrade to what we already have at any cost.

 

Im not sure about any of the QBs in the draft, but if they really like one of the guys other than Lawrence maybe we just go get him whatever the cost and hope they choose wisely.

 

Based on statements from the decision makers, standing pat doesn’t seem to be an option on the table.

 

My best guess if we don’t keep Alex Smith;  we sign Cam Newton on a 1 year deal to compete with Kyle Allen and Taylor Hienecke to start.

 

Signing Cam Newton is just not a good move. He couldn’t throw the football for 2/3 of the season. 
 

Guys like Newton and Darnold shouldn’t even be being discussed. They are not upgrades and a total waste of resources.

[Koolblue13]

Imagine being like "we can't win with ole Mitch. Give me Darnold" and pretending to be excited.

[Ruzious]

8 hours ago, PigskinRedskin said:

 

 

 

Even I'm smart enough to know there's zero chance that Philly trades Wentz to Washington.  

[KDawg]

11 hours ago, thelongestbreath said:

Could we just trade the Jets our 2nd 3rd Rd pick and a 5th to get Darnold and Crowder back in DC?  I know some wouldn't be happy with giving up a 3rd but I miss Jamison Crowder and he'd fill an extremely glaring hole with our slot while also providing us a qb that may or may not become something?  Would the value be too low for the Jets?

Love it. 
 

4th for Crowder and Darnold.

 

Then release Darnold.

 

You son of a gun! I’m in.

[Ruzious]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

And, while Cooley admitted he hasn't watched as much of Darnold as he has Carr, the former tight end has seen enough from the Jets passer to feel more comfortable with the Raiders veteran.

"I've seen enough of Darnold to see that he's got some emotional issues," Cooley said. "There are just some things he's said on the sideline, some moments where it's looked like he's panicked."

 

 

Cooley is irritating sometimes.  Why not just say he's not very good?  What young QB playing with a horrific team hasn't panicked?  

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Love it. 
 

4th for Crowder and Darnold.

 

Then release Darnold.

 

You son of a gun! I’m in.

 

Meh, we can get a better WR in free agency.  Crowder's just a solid tiny slot receiver making 8.5 mil base salary.    

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

 

Cooley is irritating sometimes.  Why not just say he's not very good?  What young QB playing with a horrific team hasn't panicked?  

Because the mental aspect of football, and the leadership factor, are the biggest indicators of success.

5 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

 

 

 

Meh, we can get a better WR in free agency.  Crowder's just a solid tiny slot receiver making 8.5 mil base salary.    

You understand the whole point of my post was the Darnold joke, right? /whoosh

[Ruzious]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Because the mental aspect of football, and the leadership factor, are the biggest indicators of success.

 

And of course, any young QB playing with the Jets would be mentally scarred.  It's not like this is some revelation.  He's not a good QB.  Pass - figuratively.   

[Ruzious]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Because the mental aspect of football, and the leadership factor, are the biggest indicators of success.

You understand the whole point of my post was the Darnold joke, right? /whoosh

I'm still in stitches over the subtle nuances, Shekky... er KDawg.  

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

I'm still in stitches over the subtle nuances, Shekky... er KDawg.  

No idea what this means. But I appreciate your compliments.

[CurseReversed]

15 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Exactly and why is it that arguments that we could find the next Tannehill or Russell Wilson or Dak Prescott are always dismissed as if they're not even attempts or are just too unlikely to even be worth it. 

 

The talk is always about "the window", which before this year didn't exist and all of a sudden it is closing. But that's beside the point. The question is about what does it take to have a chance in the dance? What's the next step? People are talking about what we need to win a championship and some of us are asking what we need to be regularly playing meaningful games in November and December. We were doing that with Kirk. We were doing that with Alex. Now the board was full of debates on whether these guys were championship caliber QBs or QBs who were top tier and all that, but the fact was that in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 we had a chance to make the playoffs in December. 

 

I have no doubt in my mind that if we win 9 games in 2016, 2017 that we're in the playoffs and we'd have kept Cousins and not been down that route with the whole double franchise tag and letting him go for pennies. 2019 was trickier because with the Smith injury we would almost certainly be looking for a QB going into the offseason, but if we had won 9 games would the Case Keenum trade have been enough for Snyder to let Gruden pick a QB later in the draft (Minshew?). 

 

Some of us act like we're going to go immediately from being a couch potato to running marathons. You don't go from being a 3-13 team to being the 90s Steelers overnight. What I've been wanting for years is just consistency. Sheehan is talking about how he doesn't want one year of 11-5, but what have we had? We haven't had that since Gibbs 1. He wants a franchise guy but they're not grown on trees. We have to either get really REALLY lucky or simply develop a guy. 

 

 

Look at teams like the 49 ers  rams and Tampa  Teams that built solid rosters but had middling qb's.  They had some consistent success because of those rosters but based upon the logic that I hear being used here, they should have been stuck in above average mediocrity due to them drafting high every year but not having the qb to be perennial contenders for the super bowl.  But now all of a sudden, the rams have their guy and the 49ers had a couple injuries and had a down year, and are drafting low enough to maybe trade up to get their guy or they could still trade for a veteran with that high draft pick. Maybe next year some elite guy will refuse to resign with his team and walk over to san fran as a free agent just to win.  Kind of like what happened with Brady and that solid team that TB built, which also should have been stuck in above average mediocrity. 

 

Point being that you can build a solid roster and even if you probably wont be drafting high enough to get that elite qb every year, you never know what will happen, opportunity can come, and when it does you will be in a position to take advantage of it.  

Not only that but solid rosters give any qb that might be taken their best chance to succeed.

 

The superbowl was a perfect example of Qb play versus team play and why it matters.  KC had an elite qb and elite weapons but could not even score a touchdown.  Why?   I watched that game again and it was not the bucs linebackers that won it, even though they were awesome.  It was the lack of two offensive tackles.   That dynasty level KC roster was totally inept without them.  IT was a jailbreak on every play and mahomes was helpless.

 

 

 

 

[HigSkin]

It has really never made sense for the Raiders to trade Carr, low cap hit and talent wise.

 

 

[HigSkin]

 

[heyholetsgogrant]

5 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Eagles probably having doubts, QB's are so valuable right now, do they really want to go into next season with Hurts and maybe a rookie?

[Skinsinparadise]

I get the Crowder joke.  But in all seriousness, watching some Darnold games on an off including 2 games last weekend, Crowder is really good still.  I liked Crowder when he was here but I admit I am surprised how hard he was to replace.  He has great hands and for a small dude he has really good reach and is still a really good YAC guy.  Crowder>>>>>>>> Quinn and Sims. Its not even close.

 

I am not saying that's who I want at receiver but saying that dude is clearly an above average slot WR still.

 

Speaking of receiver, Standig doubled down this morning on what Keim has suggested which is team's station at QB may drive the destination of some FA receivers everything being equal.

 

He also talked up how much Rivera seems to value leadership in the QB spot and to factor that in their targets citing he doubted they'd have interest in Wentz based on his supposed locker room issues alone. 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Between this story and the one Shanny tells of Peyton almost coming to DC, man 🙄  good thing we needed to see Dan's dude Haskins play out this season, no need to chase Brady then. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Riggo#44]

This is great media marketing the league, but I'll put a sig bet that only Wentz will get traded for less than a 1st rounder, simply for cap relief, if at all.

[kingdaddy]

34 minutes ago, CurseReversed said:

Look at teams like the 49 ers  rams and Tampa  Teams that built solid rosters but had middling qb's.  They had some consistent success because of those rosters but based upon the logic that I hear being used here, they should have been stuck in above average mediocrity due to them drafting high every year but not having the qb to be perennial contenders for the super bowl.  But now all of a sudden, the rams have their guy and the 49ers had a couple injuries and had a down year, and are drafting low enough to maybe trade up to get their guy or they could still trade for a veteran with that high draft pick. Maybe next year some elite guy will refuse to resign with his team and walk over to san fran as a free agent just to win.  Kind of like what happened with Brady and that solid team that TB built, which also should have been stuck in above average mediocrity. 

 

Point being that you can build a solid roster and even if you probably wont be drafting high enough to get that elite qb every year, you never know what will happen, opportunity can come, and when it does you will be in a position to take advantage of it.  

Not only that but solid rosters give any qb that might be taken their best chance to succeed.

 

The superbowl was a perfect example of Qb play versus team play and why it matters.  KC had an elite qb and elite weapons but could not even score a touchdown.  Why?   I watched that game again and it was not the bucs linebackers that won it, even though they were awesome.  It was the lack of two offensive tackles.   That dynasty level KC roster was totally inept without them.  IT was a jailbreak on every play and mahomes was helpless.

 

 

 

 

This is my point too....I'd like to model our roster after how the Niners built theirs. They got crushed with injuries this year but last year they went to the big show with a subpar QB and nearly won it. If you can't get the big fish then keep building until you find the guy that gets you where you wanna go. 

[Chump Bailey]

1 hour ago, CurseReversed said:

The superbowl was a perfect example of Qb play versus team play and why it matters.  KC had an elite qb and elite weapons but could not even score a touchdown.  Why?   I watched that game again and it was not the bucs linebackers that won it, even though they were awesome.  It was the lack of two offensive tackles.   That dynasty level KC roster was totally inept without them.  IT was a jailbreak on every play and mahomes was helpless.

 

Not taking anything away from the Buc's, but the Chiefs were snakebit in many ways. Their weapons are Kelce and Hill. I'd have taken D'Andre Swift over CEH too personally. I agree with you about the horrid OL play however.

 

I'd like to see our WFT take a gander on Jackson Carman at some point in the draft sooner than later.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Chump Bailey

[CurseReversed]

18 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

This is my point too....I'd like to model our roster after how the Niners built theirs. They got crushed with injuries this year but last year they went to the big show with a subpar QB and nearly won it. If you can't get the big fish then keep building until you find the guy that gets you where you wanna go. 

Exactly, SF is the model that many in the league are trying to emulate and that many qb's in the league are probably dying to play for.  Sometimes if you build it strong enough, that guy you really want at QB will find you.  After hearing rumblings from Seattle about Wilson not being happy, you cant help but wonder what team with a soild roster he might be fantasizing about and how some lucky team might be able to aquire him.

[kingdaddy]

3 minutes ago, CurseReversed said:

Exactly, SF is the model that many in the league are trying to emulate and that many qb's in the league are probably dying to play for.  Sometimes if you build it strong enough, that guy you really want at QB will find you.  After hearing rumblings from Seattle about Wilson not being happy, you cant help but wonder what team with a soild roster he might be fantasizing about and how some lucky team might be able to aquire him.

True, especially true with how these top QB's seem to be able to dictate where they're gonna go. RR is putting us back on track to be a desirable place to play, this offseason will be interesting to see if any big name free agents choose to come here. 

I saw a report on ESPN back in the Fall where there is a pretty common thought that Russell Wilson and Seattle will part ways when he becomes eligible for a new deal. I thought it had something to do with Wilson not being happy with how he is used but someone on this site probably knows the story better than I do. I was surprised to hear that it was basically a foregone conclusion that RW would not re-up in Seattle. Not sure if that's still the case or not.

I agree, the good QB will find us if the roster is strong enough. Well said.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, Ruzious said:

 What young QB playing with a horrific team hasn't panicked?  

How many young QB's ever recover from that and go on to be solid starting QBs?

[CommDownMan]

10 hours ago, Guard Bum said:

Wentz has aleast proven he’s capable of playing good football.  You don’t forget how to play so there is reasonable expectation he could return to form under the right circumstance.  I’m not confident we have that situation but I can understand taking the chance if the price is reasonable.

 

How much has he shown since the injury?  I feel like there could be a bit more than just mental. 

I think it's a lot of money and capital to gamble on personally and add to it, it bails out the Eagles from a guy they don't seem to want.