Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Romo was an unknown til he got thrown in there too....you don't know for sure what the ceiling is for Heinicke. I don't either. 

 

 

True, but Romo was also picked up by the team he ended up being the franchise QB of, even though he was undrafted. Heinicke has been with and released by 4 different teams before being picked up by us. Sure, they could all be morons and just never got to see the shining jewel that is Taylor Heinicke's Final Form. Or they might have realized that he's not that great. 

 

Also, Romo is one undrafted guy. How many UDFA QBs have been signed in the last 10 years? How many went on to do anything? Yeah, not great odds. Hope for the best, sure. But be realistic and don't overhype him in your head and not try to get someone potentially better because you just hope he'll be good.

[method man]

31 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

They are able to be traded, they changed it a few years ago which has been great for draft day movement

 

They don't have a pick apiece from 2021-2023.

[JSSkinz]

I like everything I've seen from Mac Jones during the season and more importantly the playoffs. I would be on the phone with the Chargers and Vikings trying to figure out if in the right scenario they would be willing to move back and what it would cost.  Unless there is a surprise player on the board at #13 or #14, a 3rd and change should get it done.

We gotta get to him before the Pats do.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by JSSkinz

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, TheShredder said:

WFT will have 4 QBs in camp.  Allen, Heinicke, a rookie flyer, and a vet not necessarily named Alex Smith. 

The rookie won't matter.  Whomever the vet is won't be named Stafford or Watson. 
They saw, vs TB that a QB in this type of offense must be capable of unscripted plays.  Elusive enough to avoid pressure, while keeping his eyes downfield. 

That type of vet QB is Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater, and Mariota.

Building on improvements, to be a contender, isn't a single roster position for this years 7-9 team.  They're not close enough for a mega-deal move on 1 guy, even at QB because they'd cut off their nose despite their face. 

 

I think Kyle has a better chance than Smith.

[JoggingGod]

43 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

you don't know for sure what the ceiling is for Heinicke

Yeah we do know for sure what his ceiling is. He's been in the league 6 going on 7 years and has only managed to make it off the practice squad once. Going with him is suicide and wasting the defensive core we have now.

[BurgundyBooger]

9 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Yeah we do know for sure what his ceiling is. He's been in the league 6 going on 7 years and has only managed to make it off the practice squad once. Going with him is suicide and wasting the defensive core we have now.

 

No one predicted that he'd play the way he did against the Tampa Bay. We obviously didn't know his true ceiling going into that game, so don't just assume that we do now.

Edited January 28, 2021 by BurgundyBooger

[Darrell Green Fan]

9 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Yeah we do know for sure what his ceiling is. He's been in the league 6 going on 7 years and has only managed to make it off the practice squad once. Goin

g with him is suicide and wasting the defensive core we have now.

 It is absolutely mind-boggling how many people get on board after one game and a quarter.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[OGDMV]

17 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Yeah we do know for sure what his ceiling is. He's been in the league 6 going on 7 years and has only managed to make it off the practice squad once. Going with him is suicide and wasting the defensive core we have now.

Minnesota Vikings- played behind Teddy Bridgewater who went to the pro bowl.

New England Patriots- Tom Brady.

Houston Texans- Had a chance to play but was concussed. Texans then draft Deshaun Watson.

Carolina Panthers- Cam Newton was their franchise QB. When given the chance Taylor injured his elbow.

 

Has he really been given a chance to be the guy? Imo no. Watching and rewatching the TB game the guy was flawless and at 27 he is in prime qb age. I don't think it's necessary to trade away multiple firsts, or break up the DLINE which has been suggested to get an all-star qb. All we have to do is be able to win the East and then we have a chance at the super bowl every year. Lock him up, give him weapons in FA every year and just keep drafting.

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by OGDMV

[Burgundy Yoda]

I'm far from an expert but there's a few things I've seen from Mac Jones that I just don't like and I typically like QBs to have. His footwork really doesn't impress me, it needs some work. 

 

1. When he drops back, he gets to that spot too slowly. In the NFL, every second you save as QB is precious, the faster you get to your position after dropping back, the better your chances are at scanning the field and being in position to bounce around in the pocket to avoid pressure. This is what impressed me about Heinicke the most (I'm not saying he should be our starter), he got to his position incredibly fast. That was one of the most impressive things about him to me, he got back there at Brees-like speed. 

 

2. His feet aren't active enough in the pocket. 20+ years ago, Peyton Manning used to get a lot of flak for his happy feet (the way they were constantly bouncing up and down in the pocket as he was looking for open options), but having feet like that can help a QBs internal timer and it's also easier to move in short bursts with feet like that. If there's a clean pocket, Jones just kind of stands there. 

 

Honestly though, I will say the more I've looked into him, the better his arm appeared to be. He does put the ball in good positions and accuracy is the most important trait for a QB in my opinion. I don't rate arm strength very high when it comes to QBs, it's nice because having a strong arm can really trick defenders but it isn't a necessity for a QB. 

 

I think Jones will probably be the type to take a lot of sacks as a rookie, and needs some development before he gets thrown out there. Imo, this team needs a QB ready to go right out of the box and really Lawrence is the only one in the draft that fits that criteria. I feel we're too far into our rebuild and we need someone who can take us places in the 2021 season. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[JoggingGod]

Just now, OGDMV said:

Minnesota Vikings- played behind Teddy Bridgewater who went to the pro bowl.

New England Patriots- Tom Brady.

Houston Texans- Had a chance to play but was concussed. Texans then draft Deshaun Watson.

Carolina Panthers- Cam Newton was their franchise QB. When given the chance Taylor injured his elbow.

 

Has he really been given a chance to be the guy? Imo no. Watching and rewatching the TB game the guy was flawless and at 27 he is in prime qb age.

 

So then how come nobody even attempted to get him to compete for the starting all these years?

[OGDMV]

2 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

So then how come nobody even attempted to get him to compete for the starting all these years?

Teddy bridgewater, Tom Brady, Deshaun Watson, Can Newton..... 

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, OGDMV said:

 

Houston Texans- Had a chance to play but was concussed. Texans then draft Deshaun Watson.

Carolina Panthers- Cam Newton was their franchise QB. When given the chance Taylor injured his elbow.

 

Has he really been given a chance to be the guy? Imo no

 

He was given a playoff game, looked great and what happened? Injured.

 

Has he been given a chance and then gotten injured? Yes, very consistently 

[kingdaddy]

50 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

True, but Romo was also picked up by the team he ended up being the franchise QB of, even though he was undrafted. Heinicke has been with and released by 4 different teams before being picked up by us. Sure, they could all be morons and just never got to see the shining jewel that is Taylor Heinicke's Final Form. Or they might have realized that he's not that great. 

 

Also, Romo is one undrafted guy. How many UDFA QBs have been signed in the last 10 years? How many went on to do anything? Yeah, not great odds. Hope for the best, sure. But be realistic and don't overhype him in your head and not try to get someone potentially better because you just hope he'll be good.

I guess I have an issue when someone rules someone out just because they don't have a high draft history or much playing experience. Like you said, the odds say one thing but the odds also said USA wouldn't beat Russia in 1980. Heinicke showed moxie and his own teammates endorsed him, why should we write him off?

8 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

So then how come nobody even attempted to get him to compete for the starting all these years?

Well somebody put him in to start in a playoff game and he nailed it...Maybe it's time someone did give him a shot to start? If he blows it then so be it...btw, I'm not advocating handing him the starting job but he should be given legit time in preseason games, practice with the 1st team to show what he can do.

[OGDMV]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

He was given a playoff game, looked great and what happened? Injured.

 

Has he been given a chance and then gotten injured? Yes, very consistently 

A concussion doesn't count as an injury and he finished the Tampa Bay game.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, OGDMV said:

A concussion doesn't count as an injury and he finished the Tampa Bay game.

On what planet is an injured brain not an injury?  

 

He couldn't get through 4 quarters without having the back up ready to play. That's the point. He does nothing to make you think he will ever be able to start 16+ games.

[Skinsinparadise]

Granted its PFF

 

The Lions don’t seem to be getting as much interest in Matthew Stafford as expected

Posted by Mike Florio on January 27, 2021, 6:20 PM EST

 

 

Getty Images

When it comes to potential interest in Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford, the glass is currently two-thirds empty.

That’s the obvious import of the news that a third of the league has reached out to the Lions. A third of the league. Ten teams. For a 32-year-old franchise quarterback who is going to get his wish for a new franchise.

The Lions undoubtedly leaked that number to NFL Media in order to generate more interest. Surely, they expected to hear from more than 10 teams — especially since calls always get made when a key veteran player is available as part of the normal due diligence process.

The teams that should at least make the call include the Jets, Patriots, Dolphins, Steelers, Browns, Jaguars, Colts, Texans, Broncos, Raiders, Washington, Cowboys (as a potentially cheaper alternative to Dak Prescott), Bears, Vikings, Panthers, Saints, Falcons, 49ers, and Rams. That’s nearly two thirds of the league.

Maybe some teams simply aren’t intersted. Maybe some teams simply want the Lions to get nervous and thus desperate and thus willing to get whatever they can for Stafford instead of driving the hardest bargain.

Regardless, the Lions for now seem to be having a much harder time than expected when it comes to generating interest in Stafford.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/27/the-lions-dont-seem-to-be-getting-as-much-interest-in-matthew-stafford-as-expected/

 

[TheShredder]

Some speculation about Dallas inquiry about Stafford instead of Dak.  I believe everything I read on the internet....!

[kingdaddy]

If we REALLY think this through...or, I'll speak for myself, we need to plan on how can we beat Kansas City. If we really want to get to that level then the answer is to trade for Watson. That means ponying up what Houston wants and biting the bullet. Maybe we can get those picks back through some creative deals? But to really compete with Mahomes we need a stud QB and one is supposedly available, we need to get him. Heinicke becomes his backup. 

[heyholetsgogrant]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

How many times do we see these “impressive” workouts and the player doesn’t pan out?  Throwing in practice is nothing compared to NFL game speed.

[mistertim]

39 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I guess I have an issue when someone rules someone out just because they don't have a high draft history or much playing experience. Like you said, the odds say one thing but the odds also said USA wouldn't beat Russia in 1980. Heinicke showed moxie and his own teammates endorsed him, why should we write him off?

 

I'm not suggesting writing him off. I'm suggesting treating him the way you'd treat a lottery ticket. You might win, but it's historically/statistically very unlikely, so it's not a great idea to get your hopes up and start dreaming about the Ferrari you're going to buy when you win. Or worse yet, buy a lottery ticket and then quit your job because you assume it's a winner since you saw some other guy win with a ticket from the same store once. 

[Skinsinparadise]

This is the WFT PFF guy

 

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This is the WFT PFF guy

 

 

 

I'm on the same boat as this guy, but at the same time, you can't expect to get a top tier QB at 19.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, OGDMV said:

Minnesota Vikings- played behind Teddy Bridgewater who went to the pro bowl.

New England Patriots- Tom Brady.

Houston Texans- Had a chance to play but was concussed. Texans then draft Deshaun Watson.

Carolina Panthers- Cam Newton was their franchise QB. When given the chance Taylor injured his elbow.

 

Has he really been given a chance to be the guy? Imo no. Watching and rewatching the TB game the guy was flawless and at 27 he is in prime qb age. I don't think it's necessary to trade away multiple firsts, or break up the DLINE which has been suggested to get an all-star qb. All we have to do is be able to win the East and then we have a chance at the super bowl every year. Lock him up, give him weapons in FA every year and just keep drafting.

 

 

I feel like I've somehow opened a time capsule and inadvertently wandered back into the Cult of Colt thread.

[Skinsinparadise]