Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, HigSkin said:

I would think even if this trade is agreed upon we may not hear about it for a while because trades aren't official until March 17 (start of the new year).  I also think if it's the WFT that gets Stafford, they're going to want time to talk to Alex Smith.

 

The media reported our trade for Smith in January. It was just reported as ‘a deal in principle has been agreed’ between both teams. 

[HigSkin]

 

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I don’t think Love is doing much. I think Rodgers wants a change of scenery or to plain ol retire.

 

Rodgers is a total stud and a better QB and a better track record than Stafford and has had arguably pretty mediocre weapons aside from Adams. Most Pack players go elsewhere and do very little. 
 

I don’t think him being traded is a sure thing but if I’m the Lions I’m pushing the Stafford trade hard right now before Watson and potentially Rodgers become available. 

I'm not sure we have way better weapons on Offense that GB have actually. McLaurin aside, it's quite average to me.

 

Though Rodgers would provide a much better QB play than what we've had in years, obviously.

 

And yeah, the best part is that this talk will lower Stafford's value.

[wit33]

What planet are we on!? Yes, you trade for Rodgers, even at the cost of two #1s. 
 

His style QB of play will age well, IMO. His athleticism at the position isn’t a fast twitch or top end speed, it’s more manipulating through using A,B, and C gaps depending on the situation and still has the occasional ability to extend to the sidelines. His arm is every bit as good from my fan view as it has ever been. 
 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

9 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

and only one Championship. Yes I am still jealous. 

[Est.1974]

The Colts wanting Wentz was the early talk wasn’t it. Has the HC change, especially with who they have hired, now got him back in the game in Philly?

[CobraCommander]

Just now, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

The Colts wanting Wentz was the early talk wasn’t it. Has the HC change, especially with who they have hired, now got him back in the game in Philly?

 I think the opposite. I think the rumor was that Pederson is out because he wants Wentz and the organization wants to role with Hurts. Wentz reuniting with his old OC in Frank Reich makes the most sense especially if Philly can get a good trade.

[Skinsinparadise]

Much of the national media has annoited Stafford to the Colts since the rumor of him being on the trading block started weeks back.  Like I said over the weekend, the whole thing is nauseating to me.  It comes off like they believe they deserve Stafford.  The Colts do good QBs its in their DNA, etc so he belongs there..  

 

We should get Stafford just to spite them.  😀    They will be outraged that the mighty hallowed Colts don't get their man...

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

15 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

I'm not sure we have way better weapons on Offense that GB have actually. McLaurin aside, it's quite average to me.

 

Though Rodgers would provide a much better QB play than what we've had in years, obviously.

 

And yeah, the best part is that this talk will lower Stafford's value.

I don’t think we do either. I was commenting on Green Bay, not us. I think our roster is on the weak side overall... specifically on offense.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, wit33 said:

What planet are we on!? Yes, you trade for Rodgers, even at the cost of two #1s. 
 

His style QB of play will age well, IMO. His athleticism at the position isn’t a fast twitch or top end speed, it’s more manipulating through using A,B, and C gaps depending on the situation and still has the occasional ability to extend to the sidelines. His arm is every bit as good from my fan view as it has ever been. 
 

 

 

But do we really know if Rodgers is better than Heinicke?

 

 

[method man]

I have to think if we have to go as high as a 1st + Jon Allen, that gets it done. Allen is the perfect fit in Detroit. He is scheme versatile, the leader they need on defense can probably be a good influence on Da'Shawn Hand, his former teammate at Alabama. While it would suck to lose Allen's leadership, you'd still have Matt I as your starting UT and Caleb Brantley as his presumed backup.

 

I would value Allen as either a 2nd or 3rd round value anyway given he has 1 year left on his contract at $9M

[actorguy1]

% of accurate passes from a clean pocket. Stafford is 29th last year at 58%

[CobraCommander]

3 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

% of accurate passes from a clean pocket. Stafford is 29th last year at 58%

He doesn't have to worry about a clean pocket here!🤣

[Skinsinparadise]

From ESPN insider

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/30773062/best-trade-fits-matthew-stafford-nine-nfl-destinations-make-sense

Indianapolis Colts

Day 1-2 draft picks in 2021: No. 21 overall, one second-round pick, one third-round pick
Projected 2021 cap space: $69,288,959

This is an easy dot to connect due to Indianapolis' QB depth chart of Jacob Eason and ... Jacob Eason. The Colts also have nearly $70 million in projected cap space available.

But it goes deeper than that. General manager Chris Ballard has patiently built a winner over the past few years. The roster is ready to contend now. The Colts did a one-year deal with Philip Rivers last offseason knowing they could attack this quarterback window now. They have the line to protect Stafford and intriguing playmakers to bolster the passing game.

This is a spot Stafford most definitely has his eyes on, from what I'm hearing. And NFL execs starting telegraphing this one last month.

"Makes a lot of sense, which is why the Colts will really look into making this work," an NFC exec said.

There's really no financial adjustment Indy must make. The expiring deals of Rivers and Jacoby Brissett create $46.3 million in space alone. Plug and play.

The only issue is the Colts' standing in the first round. They pick 21st overall in this draft and could be picking outside of the top 20 in future years. They'll likely have to part with a high volume of picks to compensate.

 

San Francisco 49ers

Day 1-2 draft picks in 2021: No. 12 overall, one second-round pick
Projected 2021 cap space: $11,201,358

I'm not convinced the 49ers are definitely moving on from Jimmy Garoppolo, who is well-liked and 24-9 as the starter in San Francisco. But when you ask people around the league for potential fits for Stafford, San Francisco almost always comes up. Stafford's arm would add a dimension to Kyle Shanahan's multitier attack.

"He has the arm and is an underrated athlete, so he's scheme-versatile," an NFC exec said. "They could do a lot of different things with him [in San Francisco]."

And as the quarterback carousel spins, Garoppolo will have some trade value, providing extra draft capital for a Stafford flip. The Niners' 12th overall pick is low enough to entice Detroit.

San Francisco has $11.2 million in cap space and might need roster concessions to make it work: Slashing a few veteran salaries or parting with left tackle Trent Williams, who's eager to hit free agency. All-Pro linebacker Fred Warner needs a new deal, too.

 

Washington Football Team

Day 1-2 draft picks in 2021: No. 19 overall, one second-round pick, two third-round picks (own, 49ers')
Projected 2021 cap space: $35,462,755

Washington knows that this is its time to strike, and many around the league expect the team to shop for quarterback help -- if not Stafford, then somebody else -- this offseason.

"I think they'll at least explore it," one exec predicted.

Washington has a little more than $35 million in cap space and a ton of intriguing pieces on both sides of the ball.

New general manager Martin Mayhew, plucked from San Francisco's front office, was the Lions' GM who drafted Stafford No. 1 overall in 2009. There's a mutual respect.

The question is how far Ron Rivera is willing to stretch his draft capital for a team that's still young in several spots. Washington does have an extra third-round pick to package with 19th overall and more.

[Darrell Green Fan]

3 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Think I'm with you on this, plus, Rodgers is a moody dude, he could bring some issues....

 

I am all in on Stafford. I heard what @stevemcqueen1said and I was thinking the same thing, this reminds me of Peyton in Denver. But that Denver team was better than this roster.  I don't think obtaining Rodgers will guarantee a trip to the Super Bowl.  Then we will be right back where Denver has been post Manning in a few years.  

 

I prefer a longer term answer. With us having a higher pick than Indy, the team most think will be his landing spot, and with the Mayhew connection I like our chances. But it won't be for just the 19th pick, pretty sure of that.  

[goskins10]

Aaron Rodgers is an interesting quandary to me. He is likely the best pure passer we have ever seen. He can drop dimes all over the place. And you can argue he has never had th D to support him or the other tools really. 

 

But last night the D got him the ball back twice in the later parts of the game. Two series in a row actually they picked Brady - who rarely gets picked. And he did nothing. It got me to thinking abotu who is better at 4th Q comebacks as this is where I believe top QBs really make their money. When you are behind and the D knows you have to score, can you move the ball. 

 

Here is what I found, among active players - 

#1 Brady - 39

#2 Brees - 36

#3 Ben R - 35

 

No real surprises. Here is where it gets interesting (full disclosure earlier was very much AGAINST Stafford) - 

#4 active - Mathew Stafford - 31 - 4 against Wash BTW! 

#5 Matt Ryan - 30

#6 Phillip Rivers - 29

 

So where is Rodgers? 

He is tied for 48th!!!! at only 17. When you put that together with his age, the fact he could not move the ball when needed last night, and the cost of getting him, I have to say it's a hard pass for me. 

 

And I have to also say I could be convinced to change my mind about Matt Stafford. This is a huge number for a guy with literally no Online and very limited tools. Yes. he had Megatron. But when you have only one weapon you can't win championships just put up good numbers. If you look at the spread it's pretty even across his career outside 2016 he had 8 and 2018 and 2019 he had 3 total. He had 4 this last season. 

 

Here is the link to the source - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm

 

 

[CobraCommander]

5 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Aaron Rodgers is an interesting quandary to me. He is likely the best pure passer we have ever seen. He can drop dimes all over the place. And you can argue he has never had th D to support him or the other tools really. 

 

But last night the D got him the ball back twice in the later parts of the game. Two series in a row actually they picked Brady - who rarely gets picked. And he did nothing. It got me to thinking abotu who is better at 4th Q comebacks as this is where I believe top QBs really make their money. When you are behind and the D knows you have to score, can you move the ball. 

 

Here is what I found, among active players - 

#1 Brady - 39

#2 Brees - 36

#3 Ben R - 35

 

No real surprises. Here is where it gets interesting (full disclosure earlier was very much AGAINST Stafford) - 

#4 active - Mathew Stafford - 31 - 4 against Wash BTW! 

#5 Matt Ryan - 30

#6 Phillip Rivers - 29

 

So where is Rodgers? 

He is tied for 48th!!!! at only 17. When you put that together with his age, the fact he could not move the ball when needed last night, and the cost of getting him, I have to say it's a hard pass for me. 

 

And I have to also say I could be convinced to change my mind about Matt Stafford. This is a huge number for a guy with literally no Online and very limited tools. Yes. he had Megatron. But when you have only one weapon you can't win championships just put up good numbers. If you look at the spread it's pretty even across his career outside 2016 he had 8 and 2018 and 2019 he had 3 total. He had 4 this last season. 

 

Here is the link to the source - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm

 

 

That's an interesting statistic but I'm curious as to the percentage of games where they needed to come back in the 4th. It's not great to be playing from behind in the 4th quarter. Maybe it speaks more to the overall team effort if you've trailed the WFT at least 4 times going into the 4th quarter of a game.  

 

So my question is, how many times has Rodgers trailed going into the 4th vs Stafford?

 

 

[KDawg]

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But do we really know if Rodgers is better than Heinicke?

 

 

 

1 and a 3 is reasonable for a top 10ish QB.

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I think there is a 50-50 chance Aaron Rodgers hits the market.  This is the most unusual vet QB market in decades.  Guys who aren't even free agents are becoming available.

Actually, it's the 2nd one in a row. What's different this year, is Watson being available.  He could play another decade.

 

Ron must get this right, or else he will be gone in a couple of years.

[Skinsinparadise]

https://markbullock.substack.com/p/quarterback-evaluation-matthew-stafford?r=fd8sn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=copy

Overall though, Stafford’s arm strength adds far more to his game than it hinders. While he can occasionally get carried away with trying to make certain throws because he has the arm to do so, he’s become less reckless as he’s aged. In general, his arm strength sets him apart from other quarterbacks for his ability to hit on deep shots and create explosive plays, as well as being able to fit the ball into tight windows. His placement on throws is typically good and often very good, especially on those intermediate to deep throws.

 

...Quarterback’s typically get better with age because age brings experience. After a certain point, it’s tough for defensive coordinators to come up with something completely new for veteran quarterbacks to handle. After 12 years in the league, Stafford has seen a wide variety of blitzes and coverage schemes and knows how to deal with them. Even when defenses manage to trick him with a pre-snap look, he can still shred them post-snap.

 

...The consistent theme on all of these scrambles is that Stafford typically looks to exhaust all of his passing options as a priority, as every quarterback should. Only when everything is covered or the protection breaks down does he look to run. When he does take off, he has the athletic ability to pick up enough yards to keep the offense moving, without being a significant threat to the defense. He also does a good job of protecting himself, sliding or stepping out of bounds before he can take any big hits. While his running ability won’t blow anyone away, it’s enough for when he needs it, which is perfectly adequate. 

 

Overall, Stafford is an excellent quarterback that would be a worthwhile addition for any team that is a quarterback away from contending. While he might not be a top five quarterback consistently, he’s certainly in the conversation for top 10. When he’s at his best, he has the arm, accuracy and intelligence to create explosive plays and be one of the top quarterbacks in the league. He might not reach that best on a consistent basis, but his average level is still very good and more than enough to be competitive with a solid team around him. 

[FootballZombie]

I'm just here waiting on Hou to hire Fraizer as HC since most teams don't wait till after the SB to sort out their HC situation

 

 

Peel off the bandaid Hou. Let the biggest domino fall

Edited January 25, 2021 by FootballZombie

[CobraCommander]

Stafford being 4 years younger than Rodgers makes him more intriguing IMO. Both QB's have the tools to succeed. One can realistically play 4 years longer than the other purely based on age. 

 

I don't actually think we have a shot at Rodgers or Watson. If there's a veteran QB that I can realistically see us landing, it's Stafford. A lot of that depends on his overall relationship with Martin Mayhew.

[goskins10]

12 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

That's an interesting statistic but I'm curious as to the percentage of games where they needed to come back in the 4th. It's not great to be playing from behind in the 4th quarter. Maybe it speaks more to the overall team effort if you've trailed the WFT at least 4 times going into the 4th quarter of a game.  

 

So my question is, how many times has Rodgers trailed going into the 4th vs Stafford?

 

 

 

I get what you are saying- he just had more chances. I see that as flawed though. Let's start with Bree's and Brady are #1 and 2. I promise you there were not behind as much as even Rodgers, especially Brady. Also, when you are a ****ty team and always behind it's even harder to come back in the 4th - because well you suck as a team. With a good team you were probably better than the other team anyway and should have won.

 

Last but not least - it's the wide gap that bothers me and seeing him fail late in games. If you remember they had a chance to come back on us that Monday night game. Rodgers came up short. I like Rodgers don't get me wrong. But when you look at the entire picture - not just how good a pure passer he is - it's just not the right move for this team. 

[BruceAllenIsFootballGenius]

32 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Aaron Rodgers is an interesting quandary to me. He is likely the best pure passer we have ever seen. He can drop dimes all over the place. And you can argue he has never had th D to support him or the other tools really. 

 

But last night the D got him the ball back twice in the later parts of the game. Two series in a row actually they picked Brady - who rarely gets picked. And he did nothing. It got me to thinking abotu who is better at 4th Q comebacks as this is where I believe top QBs really make their money. When you are behind and the D knows you have to score, can you move the ball. 

 

Here is what I found, among active players - 

#1 Brady - 39

#2 Brees - 36

#3 Ben R - 35

 

No real surprises. Here is where it gets interesting (full disclosure earlier was very much AGAINST Stafford) - 

#4 active - Mathew Stafford - 31 - 4 against Wash BTW! 

#5 Matt Ryan - 30

#6 Phillip Rivers - 29

 

So where is Rodgers? 

He is tied for 48th!!!! at only 17. When you put that together with his age, the fact he could not move the ball when needed last night, and the cost of getting him, I have to say it's a hard pass for me. 

 

And I have to also say I could be convinced to change my mind about Matt Stafford. This is a huge number for a guy with literally no Online and very limited tools. Yes. he had Megatron. But when you have only one weapon you can't win championships just put up good numbers. If you look at the spread it's pretty even across his career outside 2016 he had 8 and 2018 and 2019 he had 3 total. He had 4 this last season. 

 

Here is the link to the source - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm

 

 

He doesn’t have a lot of comebacks because they usually not trailing in the 4th