A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Andre The Giant]

2 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I hear you but my experience in the corporate world has taught me being right is almost never the most important thing.

 

Influence and how/where/when/why you spend political capital are of paramount importance in any organization. Obviously IDK what kind of relationship he has with Snyder - I've also heard that Snyder loves him but the article said some people thought Kyle might have been fired on the spot with that kind of outburst. So who knows.

 

In my experience, outbursts like that are more indulgent than anything. And since Kyle gave his speech after the selection was made, it appears even moreso that way. That he just had to get up there and prove to everyone how right he was. And yes, he was right. But what did that little stunt accomplish? Plus it's not like the other staff members didn't agree. They knew it was a bad pick. Bruce Allen tried to talk Snyder out of it before the pick, and it sounds like he did it in private, which would have been much more effective.

 

Again, IDK the gory details. But to me, that incident makes Kyle come off as a really talented scout who still has a lot to learn about leading an organization at the highest levels. Just my $0.02 

This is a good point and I don’t disagree with you regarding the corporate world.  My primary concern is that I remember when Casserly was GM.  He was great at working the media and handling logistics, but was IMO terrible at picking players.  Kyle has proven to be at least part of a group that is good at it.

 

Not saying it would happen, but I’d hate to sacrifice talent acquisition for a more polished executive.  
 

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, Andre The Giant said:

This is a good point and I don’t disagree with you regarding the corporate world.  My primary concern is that I remember when Casserly was GM.  He was great at working the media and handling logistics, but was IMO terrible at picking players.  Kyle has proven to be at least part of a group that is good at it.

 

Not saying it would happen, but I’d hate to sacrifice talent acquisition for a more polished executive.  
 

 

I definitely agree with you there. After all, Bruce Allen was very polished when talking to the press and look how bad he was! 

[Dissident2]

9 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I don't think he came off well in that article. If you know your owner is an egotistical narcissist, it's not smart to just tell him off and especially not in front of all those people. You gotta be more diplomatic in how you handle personalities like that. Influence them and make them think your idea was their idea.

 

Honestly, reading that account makes me better understand the notion that he's not yet ready. You just don't cause a scene like that IMO, especially so that the owner then loses face with the rest of the staff.

 

Could not disagree more. That may work if he had TIME to convince the owner, but this was on draft night right before the pick apparently. I gained a TON of respect for Smith after reading this. That's what this team needs far MORE of, people willing to stand up to this imbecile of an owner, not kiss his ass and try to "finesse" him. **** that at this point. The world needs far more spine. Snyder has a history of not respecting the talents and abilities of people in his employ. This guy clearly valued self-respect over self-preservation. Huge props to him if that's true. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to Russell describe the incident now on the radio.    Wow Kyle and the scouts really thought very little of Haskins.  Kyle had a real low grade on Haskins along with the scouts. 

 

He said the room on draft day was super tense.  Dan tersely said we are picking Dwayne Haskins.  Jay was frustrated and downcast in the room about it but didn't talk much.    Other coaches on the staff were incredulous that they were going to take Haskins. 

 

When Haskins was taken, Kyle got very heated and said you (expletive up) this pick.

 

Russell said that incident over time helped Dan admire Kyle.  lol, he liked his moxie I guess?   Hearing that it made me think of this Seinfeld scene

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Burgundy Yoda]

Our scouting is on point these days. The fact that Dan didn't take the expert advice is extremely disappointing. I just don't understand why you make such a bone-headed decision there when everyone is saying drafting Haskins is a bad move. 

 

It's almost bittersweet because we clearly have the right guys in the right positions, except the owner, which im certain we'll have more head-scratching moves like this one being made in the future. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

That he just had to get up there and prove to everyone how right he was.

I disagree on that front, because technically nobody was right at that moment.  It'd be different if he made that speech this week, as an I-told-you-so.  He is employed to put together a board and that's what he did.  It's not his fault the owner decided to bypass his work.  It sounds to me like after he had a moment to marinate in the gravity of the pick, he snapped.

[hail2skins]

All I can think of about the 2019 Haskins draft incident is Dan Steinberg's documentation of all the times Snyder has said "I'm learning" throughout his tenure as owner.

 

What a jackass he is.  One of the reasons that I will not be able to stomach the sight of Dan handed the Lombardi if/when the WFT does win a SB, and will shut the TV off when the clock hits 0:00.

 

That said, it seems like it took Jerry a good 20 years to step back and cede more control to his son, so maybe the same thing will happen with Dan as far as stepping back. But at least Jerry, who is the de facto league commissioner, has some charm. Dan has absolutely none. 

[Riggo#44]

Holy God, please wrest this franchise from Snyder's incredibly incompetent grip. Save us all.

[dyst]

1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I just don't understand why you make such a bone-headed decision there when everyone is saying drafting Haskins is a bad move. 

Mostly because he is a complete football moron of epic proportions. I'm super estatic about Rivera though, however, cautious because Dan can easily screw this up.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, dyst said:

Mostly because he is a complete football moron of epic proportions. I'm super estatic about Rivera though, however, cautious because Dan can easily screw this up.

This goes past being a football moron though.  It's just moronic in general.  You pay people specifically to be an expert on these matters and you completely disregard their work, to feed your own desires, that have been epic mistakes every step of the way for 20 years.

[profusion]

16 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This goes past being a football moron though.  It's just moronic in general.  You pay people specifically to be an expert on these matters and you completely disregard their work, to feed your own desires, that have been epic mistakes every step of the way for 20 years.

 

My impression is that Dan thinks he knows marketing, and he probably thought he was getting the exciting young QB the fans all want. He also probably thought this would make everyone forget Mark Sanchez and Josh Johnson.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Dissident2]

31 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Holy God, please wrest this franchise from Snyder's incredibly incompetent grip. Save us all.

 

I'd settle for Unholy Satan at this point. Whatever it takes. You want a goat sacrificed? Done. 

[RichmondRedskin88]

2 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

 

Could not disagree more. That may work if he had TIME to convince the owner, but this was on draft night right before the pick apparently. I gained a TON of respect for Smith after reading this. That's what this team needs far MORE of, people willing to stand up to this imbecile of an owner, not kiss his ass and try to "finesse" him. **** that at this point. The world needs far more spine. Snyder has a history of not respecting the talents and abilities of people in his employ. This guy clearly valued self-respect over self-preservation. Huge props to him if that's true. 

I think we can all respect what Kyle did but that doesn’t mean he’s ready to be a GM.  It requires much more than being a great scouter.  You don’t simply hand the keys to the franchise to to him because he had balls and makes a few good drafts.  I’m one of the best in my work and my boss sucks at reviewing the same work.  I could go talk them like hey you don’t know what the hell you are doing but I do.  They aren’t making me director for doing it.  Plus I dare say I’d have more to lose than Kyle who could tell his story and land on any other team with probably a raise.  I go anywhere else I’ll be questioned about why I called my boss a dumbass 

Edited December 31, 2020 by RichmondRedskin88

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

My impression is that Dan thinks he knows marketing, and he probably thought he was getting the exciting young QB the fans all want. He also probably thought this would make everyone forget Mark Sanchez and Josh Johnson.

 

 Yeah I can see the fan angle in particular.  You can see it some on the Haskins thread when people have brought up that it was leaked that some teams including ours had 2nd-3rd round grade on him -- the response by some was these personnel guys are wrong because mock drafts had Haskins in the first round.

 

This is coming from me who probably posts more mocks on the board than anyone -- mocks are entertainment, they aren't gospel.    Most of these mocks aren't done by professional scouts but by people like us who study players and give opinions.  They put in a lot of time in doing it but they aren't experts.    I'd add that some mock draft types like Matt Miller even said during the draft process that there is a big disconnect between what mock draft media types think of Haskins versus scouts he has spoken to.

 

The thing is if your picks mirror the mock drafters -- your draft will get praised because they are the same ones grading the drafts.  That's my long winded way of saying yeah Dan Snyder just like any of us can read ESPN and see where Kiper or whomever ranks various dudes.  But there is a reason why media draft types aren't working for FOs.   Their job is to entertain more than anything and give hot takes.  If it was that easy and we just had to read mock drafts to know reality then why even bother with a scouting staff -- just read what Kiper, scout.com, Brugler think, etc and just run with their board on draft day?

 

But It gets me when people defend Dan's actions on Haskins by citing mock drafts.  Heck mock draft types love QBs from big name schools everything being equal. And they get it wrong a lot. Heck Kiper years back said he was so sure Jimmy Clausen would be good that he'd quit his job if he failed.  Obviously he never quit. 

 

Hey Dan loved apparently Brady Quinn.  Ok he could read a mock, congratulations.  The fact that he can mirror the taste of some random draft geek doesn't justify his bad judgment.  We can all use the same logic. It takes me 2 minutes to read a mock. 

 

By the same logic, Dan's supposed man crush on Quinn was perfectly justfied.  Who cares if the WFT  scouts didn't like Brady Quinn because did you see what Walter Football thought of Quinn?  So how can we give Dan a hard time?   To each their own as for how some justify Dan's behavior as for his man crushes on players but to me its ridiculous.   Dan tends to like big names.  And he just about always royally gets it wrong.  The fact that some dude at ESPN or media talking head saw it the same way doesn't give Dan an out. 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/daniel-snyder-washington-redskins-owner-still-struggles-to-find-formula-for-success/2014/01/04/5d86bfa4-74a4-11e3-bc6b-712d770c3715_story.html

Snyder played a much more active role in the draft process, even traveling at times with his personnel officials to scout college players. In 2007, he had his heart set on drafting quarterback Brady Quinn out of Notre Dame. “It took a week or so to convince him that we shouldn’t do that,” one former staffer said. 

 

 

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/nflmockdraft.html

 

 

1. Oakland - JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU
   As good as Johnson is, the Raiders need a QB, and that is need #1.

    

2. Detroit - Calvin Johnson, WR, Georgia Tech
   This pick will be made for someone else, most likely Tamba Bay.

    

3. Cleveland - Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame
   Some will want Peterson and his upside is amazing, but again, the QB spot has to be addressed.

 

 

 

https://walterfootball.com/draft2007.php

 

 

 Cleveland Browns: Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame 
In my first ever 2007 Mock Draft I had Brady Quinn No. 1. Ever since then, I moved him all over the place, placing him as low as No. 14 in early February. With an impressive Pro Day and a soaring draft stock, Quinn is back in the top three.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[CommanderInTheRye]

52 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

That **** was real-  you could feel the love.

 

Riverboat doesn’t do fake. People gravitate to him because they can sense his authenticity.

 

The best decision Snyder has made as owner may well have been convincing Ron to sign with us.

Edited December 31, 2020 by TrancesWithWolves

[KDawg]

I think the sauce is giving Kyle personnel control. Giving him a raise. Hiring a GM to be the tiebreaker between Rivera and Smith and to educate Kyle on the other part of the job.

 

I actually really like that structure. It’s similar to HC and OC/DC.

 

The GM is in charge of the day to day of the entire franchise. Rivera is in charge of on-field and has a say in personnel. Smith is in charge of scouting both pro and college and has a sag in personnel. 
 

Keep Smith here by paying him and allow he and Rivera to continue their working relationship with a GM that can navigate the media and be there for the nuanced stuff. 
 

And to deal with Snyder.

[Csup]

1 hour ago, hail2skins said:

All I can think of about the 2019 Haskins draft incident is Dan Steinberg's documentation of all the times Snyder has said "I'm learning" throughout his tenure as owner.

 

What a jackass he is.  One of the reasons that I will not be able to stomach the sight of Dan handed the Lombardi if/when the WFT does win a SB, and will shut the TV off when the clock hits 0:00.

 

That said, it seems like it took Jerry a good 20 years to step back and cede more control to his son, so maybe the same thing will happen with Dan as far as stepping back. But at least Jerry, who is the de facto league commissioner, has some charm. Dan has absolutely none. 

I heard something on the radio the other day that supposedly Synder wants to retain majority ownership of the team and eventually turn over control of the team to his son.  I know nothing about his kids- but if Dan is teaching his kids everything he knows - God help us.

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, Csup said:

I heard something on the radio the other day that supposedly Synder wants to retain majority ownership of the team and eventually turn over control of the team to his son.  I know nothing about his kids- but if Dan is teaching his kids everything he knows - God help us.

Maybe his son has heard all of the stuff being said about him and he’ll want to be a better king... I hope anyways...

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I have no issue with the Kyle speaking up story. That’s his job. If he’s the one charged with picking the right guy, then he let it be known that this wasn’t the right guy. The owner has the right to do what he wants, but at least he knew where he stood on it, and so did the entire room. I Love It actually. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

1 hour ago, dyst said:

Mostly because he is a complete football moron of epic proportions. I'm super estatic about Rivera though, however, cautious because Dan can easily screw this up.

Nearly every football decision he's made has resulted in a massive failure for the franchise. At what point does he step back and realize that all he has to do is nothing and we can be successful? There are people in the right spots, sit back and let this operation run itself. It really blows my mind honestly. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Burgundy Yoda

[Skinsinparadise]

Not that more ammunition is needed in the Rivera versus Haskins debate but if anyone needs more....

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

The GM is in charge of the day to day of the entire franchise.

I get what you're saying and don't disagree that duties can be separated, but where does Jason Wright fit in - if that's the case?

[CapsSkins]

4 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

but this was on draft night right before the pick apparently.

 

The article says he gave his speech after the pick was made. So it wasn't to influence decision-making. It was indulgent. Now based on SIP's link it appears Dan may have grown to admire him for it, which is good. But just because it turned out to have a good outcome doesn't mean it was a good decision.

 

I remember doing things like what Kyle did early in my career and more often than not it was costly. Yes you get the short-term high of feeling like you "told it like it is" and that you "had a spine" and all that macho man ****. But the reality is, it usually just erodes your reputation as being immature and a loose cannon. That hurts more than helps you in the long term.

 

It's good to have a spine and stand up for yourself of course, but the how is just as important if not moreso than the what.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I get what you're saying and don't disagree that duties can be separated, but where does Jason Wright fit in - if that's the case?

Same role. Social media, fan relations. Events. Non-football related business. (I think that’s what he does).