A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Quote

"Rivera benched Haskins for Allen entering W5. That week, a conversation inside the facility involving at least one player focused on whether part of the decision involved the QB losing the locker room. 'Nah,' the player said. 'He lost the locker room a long time ago.'"

It feels like forever ago, but remember Haskins locker room speech that apparently sparked the team to the 2nd half comeback?

 

I was always a bit skeptical on that, and wanted to hear more about what exactly he did or said in the locker room.  The above comment makes me wonder if that was some hub-bub to pump Haskins confidence up a bit.

[KDawg]

I want to say that I hope Rivera didn’t have a choice and that’s why he gave Dwayne the chance he did and he didn’t look for options at the QB position last off season.

 

But then I realize I’d be hoping that Snyder interfered and it feels dirty. 
 

So I don’t even know what to hope.

[RichmondRedskin88]

1 hour ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

I have no issue with the Kyle speaking up story. That’s his job. If he’s the one charged with picking the right guy, then he let it be known that this wasn’t the right guy. The owner has the right to do what he wants, but at least he knew where he stood on it, and so did the entire room. I Love It actually. 

You don’t tell your boss to GFY in front of basically every major person in the franchise.  Even if you think they are wrong.  If you want to make it to a higher role you have to approach it better than that. Throwing a tantrum is not how you do it.

 

24 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I get what you're saying and don't disagree that duties can be separated, but where does Jason Wright fit in - if that's the case?

 

Think Bruce but minus the roster impacts. All business/PR side. 

[Stefanskins]

20 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It feels like forever ago, but remember Haskins locker room speech that apparently sparked the team to the 2nd half comeback?

 

I was always a bit skeptical on that, and wanted to hear more about what exactly he did or said in the locker room.  The above comment makes me wonder if that was some hub-bub to pump Haskins confidence up a bit.

whoa...that's about the most damning statement I've heard

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@RichmondRedskin88 I didn’t read it as a tantrum at all. We weren’t there. Airing your opinion, even to youR boss, when you are responsible for the particular job is not an issue in my book. It’s literally what they pay you  to do.  Respectful Disagreement is fine imo. 

 

[RichmondRedskin88]

19 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

@RichmondRedskin88 I didn’t read it as a tantrum at all. We weren’t there. Airing your opinion, even to youR boss, when you are responsible for the particular job is not an issue in my book. It’s literally what they pay you  to do.  Respectful Disagreement is fine imo. 

 

Disagreement is fine but the reports are that he basically slammed his hand down and yelled at Snyder in front every major person in the organization.  Unless you are a self made business owner walk into your bosses office or honestly more comparable the CEO’s office and yell at them that they ****ed up in front of the board of directors.  Let’s see if you make it to the end of the day. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by RichmondRedskin88

[Warhead36]

Remember who Kyle Smith is. His dad, AJ, while also being excellent at personnel, was known for being tough to work with. It's POSSIBLE Kyle is cut from the same cloth: good at what he does but not the easiest co-worker. Perhaps Rivera prefers a GM he can work better with.

[ksun247]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Maybe his son has heard all of the stuff being said about him and he’ll want to be a better king... I hope anyways...

 

Hope Snyder's son isn't like this KING! 

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, ksun247 said:

 

Hope Snyder's son isn't like this KING! 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

15 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Disagreement is fine but the reports are that he basically slammed his hand down and yelled at Snyder in front every major person in the organization.  Unless you are a self made business owner walk into your bosses office or honestly more comparable the CEO’s office and yell at them that they ****ed up in front of the board of directors.  Let’s see if you make it to the end of the day. 

It's quite possible, he didn't care about making it to the end of the day.  He's probably confident that he can get another job elsewhere.  He probably didn't appreciate putting in all that work only to have it be disregarded because the owner wants a new toy.  An owner who has proven time and time again that his taste for new toys is bad for the franchise.  An owner you prepared reports for telling him the new toy is a rip-off and won't last very long.  

 

[Dissident2]

41 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

You don’t tell your boss to GFY in front of basically every major person in the franchise.  Even if you think they are wrong.  If you want to make it to a higher role you have to approach it better than that. Throwing a tantrum is not how you do it.

 

Tantrum? I think that's the wrong word to use. He passionately stood up for his work and for the countless hours he'd put in as PART OF HIS JOB to figure out who would be the best use of that top pick. I'd say that's exactly how you do it when there's no other choice left and the "boss" is basically ****TING on everything you've worked so hard to put together. Again, I love this guy after reading this. I don't know if that makes him qualified to be our next GM or not, but that's the kind of guy I want on this team in SOME capacity at the very least. No more ass-kissing shills needed in this organization. 

[KillBill26]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to Russell describe the incident now on the radio.    Wow Kyle and the scouts really thought very little of Haskins.  Kyle had a real low grade on Haskins along with the scouts. 

 

He said the room on draft day was super tense.  Dan tersely said we are picking Dwayne Haskins.  Jay was frustrated and downcast in the room about it but didn't talk much.    Other coaches on the staff were incredulous that they were going to take Haskins. 

 

When Haskins was taken, Kyle got very heated and said you (expletive up) this pick.

 

Russell said that incident over time helped Dan admire Kyle.  lol, he liked his moxie I guess?   Hearing that it made me think of this Seinfeld scene

 

 

 

That's so funny you posted that, I thought the same thing when I read the draft day story.  Where everyone else would expect the owner to fire him, he actually loves it.  Crazy.   

 

I love how Kyle said that right on the spot.  Not only have the last couple drafts been awesome, but Kyle even nailed the worst pick we made, bc he was adamently against it.  

 

And I see where some ppl are saying Kyle should've done it in private, I can't say thats the wrong way to do it, I'm just so happy someone wasn't afraid to not be a snyder yes man.  I hope if Dan tries to meddle with a pick again, instead of ranting after taking dans guy, they turn to Dan beforehand and say "no that's not who we are taking.  You don't like it, fire me now."  I know this isn't the most professional way to act, and it could be career suicide once other owners learn of it, but the best thing for this team is to ignore snyder's demands on personnel each and every time.

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It's quite possible, he didn't care about making it to the end of the day.  He's probably confident that he can get another job elsewhere.  He probably didn't appreciate putting in all that work only to have it be disregarded because the owner wants a new toy.  An owner who has proven time and time again that his taste for new toys is bad for the franchise.  An owner you prepared reports for telling him the new toy is a rip-off and won't last very long.  

 

Imagine how frustrating that mustve been for KS.  you have spent months analyzing all these prospects, and you are on the clock, and the disgraceful, clueless owner tells you to forget your own analysis, and take a guy you know is a terrible pick.  His blood must've been boiling.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

32 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Disagreement is fine but the reports are that he basically slammed his hand down and yelled at Snyder in front every major person in the organization.  Unless you are a self made business owner walk into your bosses office or honestly more comparable the CEO’s office and yell at them that they ****ed up in front of the board of directors.  Let’s see if you make it to the end of the day. 

 

Smith asked the room specifically: Is the organization really thinking of taking Haskins?

 

At that point, one voice chimed in. It was the owner's voice, confirming that Haskins was going to be the choice.

His choice.

 

More silence ensued in the moments around the pick and with the pick made, Smith pushed himself up from the table and unloaded on the room - a speech that was described as "fiery and passionate'' about the pick and how much he disagreed with the selection.

 

Smith then sat down.

 

THIS is the report, as you state It “he yelled at him in front of everyone.” 
 

That’s where you are mixing in your take. you are making it personal between Kyle and Dan. He gave a fiery and passionate speech on why he felt DH should not be picked there. The case was against Picking DH, not Dan. 
 

There is nothing wrong there.  Granted It’s not a step a lot of people would take. But I have absolutely no problem with him disagreeing with the owner on draft day, when our pick is about to be made. It’s what we pay him to do. We don’t pay him to be a yes man. The owner has every right to make the pick anyways. It’s all good imo. If Dan wantEd to fire him for it then so be it, he had that right too. 
He did not.

 

what it does show is how Dan operates. He couldn’t have Had a conversation with everyone earlier about what his thoughts were On the draft and our first round pick? He waits till draft day to stroll in and say who we are picking at 15! It’s laughable, the total disregard for the countless hours of scouting and watching tape the personnel people do. He really is a terrible owner, it’s mind boggling.

 

I Just realized the speech came after the pick was made, as @capskins pointed out. That does make a difference. It was indulgent and at that point unnecessary but he must’ve felt railroaded by the decision. I’m still fine with him speaking his mind, just wish he would’ve done it before we picked.

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by COWBOY-KILLA-

[RichmondRedskin88]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It's quite possible, he didn't care about making it to the end of the day.  He's probably confident that he can get another job elsewhere.  He probably didn't appreciate putting in all that work only to have it be disregarded because the owner wants a new toy.  An owner who has proven time and time again that his taste for new toys is bad for the franchise.  An owner you prepared reports for telling him the new toy is a rip-off and won't last very long.  

 

 

9 minutes ago, Dissident2 said:

 

Tantrum? I think that's the wrong word to use. He passionately stood up for his work and for the countless hours he'd put in as PART OF HIS JOB to figure out who would be the best use of that top pick. I'd say that's exactly how you do it when there's no other choice left and the "boss" is basically ****TING on everything you've worked so hard to put together. Again, I love this guy after reading this. I don't know if that makes him qualified to be our next GM or not, but that's the kind of guy I want on this team in SOME capacity at the very least. No more ass-kissing shills needed in this organization. 

Alright well you all go tell off your CEOs right now.  Make sure they are on a executive call though.  Make sure you cuss them out just like Kyle too.  Let me know how that goes.  
 

 

There's better ways to address then cussing out the owner in front of the organization.  

Edited December 31, 2020 by RichmondRedskin88

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Maybe his son has heard all of the stuff being said about him and he’ll want to be a better king... I hope anyways...

 

[Dissident2]

1 hour ago, CapsSkins said:

 

The article says he gave his speech after the pick was made. So it wasn't to influence decision-making. It was indulgent. Now based on SIP's link it appears Dan may have grown to admire him for it, which is good. But just because it turned out to have a good outcome doesn't mean it was a good decision.

 

I remember doing things like what Kyle did early in my career and more often than not it was costly. Yes you get the short-term high of feeling like you "told it like it is" and that you "had a spine" and all that macho man ****. But the reality is, it usually just erodes your reputation as being immature and a loose cannon. That hurts more than helps you in the long term.

 

It's good to have a spine and stand up for yourself of course, but the how is just as important if not moreso than the what.

You're right, thanks for that correction on when the tirade came. 

 

That aside, I'd agree with you if we were talking about anyone but Dan Snyder. I'm sure this wasn't the first time Smith had witnessed something idiotic and franchise-damaging coming from this owner. I can't imagine Lil' napoleon has even an ounce of respect from these guys. Probably the complete opposite. So I don't see it as some stupid, "macho BS" move, but more of an "I'm fed up with this ****" reaction. Especially considering all the hours these guys put into their evaluations, only to see some tiny man-baby overrule them based on whatever "gut feeling" he had about a player who went to school with his kid. The fact that Snyder did that at all to these guys shows how little he values them and their actual skillset. Responding to that the way Kyle did, to me, is not something that speaks to some "young up-and-comer" trying to make some sort of naive, inappropriate statement to prove he "had a spine," but rather to someone who actually cares about what he does and what his name is associated with. 

[ananoman]

5 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Our scouting is on point these days. The fact that Dan didn't take the expert advice is extremely disappointing. I just don't understand why you make such a bone-headed decision there when everyone is saying drafting Haskins is a bad move. 

 

It's almost bittersweet because we clearly have the right guys in the right positions, except the owner, which im certain we'll have more head-scratching moves like this one being made in the future. 

Because  since he has owned the team Dan's overriding desire is to be able  take credit for the success of the organization by demonstrating his football knowledge and prowess.  I still remember seeing his picture just inside the front of a gameday program from around 2002 taken with the Redskins Lombardi Trophies flanking his mug. The caption bio read that under Snyder's leadership the Skins had a division championship and a record of ____.   I remember thinking, "what a self absorbed narcissist for taking credit for a division championship that he had zilch to do with (1999, the year he bought the team)."  

  Unless Snyder is forced to sell, or truly changes his ways (doubtful).  The WFT will never sniff a Super Bowl.  Think about it, with the team that Kyle Smith and Rivera have built, this team could have already been close to SB caliber but for the decision to draft Haskins and the loss of two second round picks to trade up for Montez Sweat that could have been key contributors to this team

Edited December 31, 2020 by ananoman

[hail2skins]

6 minutes ago, ananoman said:

Because  since he has owned the team Dan's overriding desire is to be able  take credit for the success of the organization by demonstrating his football knowledge and prowess.  I still remember seeing his picture just inside the front of a gameday program from around 2002 taken with the Redskins Lombardi Trophies flanking his mug. The caption bio read that under Snyder's leadership the Skins had a division championship and a record of ____.   I remember thinking, "what a self absorbed narcissist for taking credit for a division championship that he had zilch to do with 

Wasnt there a bio of Snyder a few years back on the team website that mentioned Hall of Famers like Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders as among Dan's accomplishments, as if their time here had anything to do with them being in the HOF?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

15 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

 

Alright well you all go tell off your CEOs right now.  Make sure they are on a executive call though.  Make sure you cuss them out just like Kyle too.  Let me know how that goes.  
 

 

There's better ways to address then cussing out the owner in front of the organization.  

Sure, because my job is anything at all like Kyle's.  There are better ways to do everything.  But sometimes you explode, because you are sick of x, y and z.  Sounds like that's what happened here and it was what the doctor ordered.

[ananoman]

13 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

Wasnt there a bio of Snyder a few years back on the team website that mentioned Hall of Famers like Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders as among Dan's accomplishments, as if their time here had anything to do with them being in the HOF?

See what I mean?😆

[RichmondRedskin88]

4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Sure, because my job is anything at all like Kyle's.  There are better ways to do everything.  But sometimes you explode, because you are sick of x, y and z.  Sounds like that's what happened here and it was what the doctor ordered.

And may very well be why he’s not gonna be GM

[CapsSkins]

3 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

And may very well be why he’s not gonna be GM

 

Yup, I'm with you @RichmondRedskin88. Also folks remember that Ron Rivera is an Army brat. So discipline and respect for chain of command even in case of dissent is probably big for him. How do you think someone like that would interpret what happened? My guess: that Kyle is not ready for primetime. Yes you love caring about what you do and caring about the organization and being passionate, but leaders at the highest levels cannot reach "breaking points". They cannot "snap" and they cannot have outbursts. No matter how understandable or relatable or sympathetic the cause. It's just a higher standard to which to be held.

 

So you mouth off against Snyder once and he gives you the pat on the back for having balls. But what about when you do it a 2nd time? Or a 3rd time?

 

Gibbs and it looks like Rivera are masters at managing Dan. And in this organization, that's of paramount importance. Hell Ron talks about it almost openly. How to keep Dan in line? Proactively bring him into the process and make him feel involved, listened to, respected. This is classic client management. You cannot call your client an idiot no matter how idiotic they're being. Period full stop.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I think the both of you are treating a pro football war room like it’s your usual corporate environment.  From everything I’ve read, it is not.  Tempers flare up often.

 

I also doubt scenarios such as what happened here are regular events across the NFL, where you have your guy flat out telling you not to draft a quarterback for x, y and z reasons, but the owner makes the selection anyways.

 

[Riggo#44]

8 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

 

I'd settle for Unholy Satan at this point. Whatever it takes. You want a goat sacrificed? Done. 

Xenu? Sacrifice all my time and money to Scientology God?

[RichmondRedskin88]

4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think the both of you are treating a pro football war room like it’s your usual corporate environment.  From everything I’ve read, it is not.  Tempers flare up often.

 

I also doubt scenarios such as what happened here are regular events across the NFL, where you have your guy flat out telling you not to draft a quarterback for x, y and z reasons, but the owner makes the selection anyways.

 

Because there’s a level of respect and professionalism.  Ron talks about this in his interview.  It wasn’t Haskins play that burned him up.  It was how he riled up the locker room and blatantly didn’t care about the team.  His play became absolutely secondary.  Him and Snyder talk every day even if it’s just how things are going.  Ron may not like everything about him but he knows keeping respectful communication important.  He even made it clear Snyder never told him to do things. Kyle yelling at the owner in front of all the top people is unprofessional.  Doesn’t matter if it’s a team war room or a corporate setting.  You don’t fly off the handle and cuss out ultimately your main boss.  If it’s because he could careless because he felt he could go somewhere else then it’s just arrogant disrespect.  He can absolutely voice his displeasure in the war room but that’s not how you do it.