Summer of 2020---The Civil Unrest Thread--Read OP Before Posting (in memory of George Floyd)

[just654]

58 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

I spoke with my brother at length last night... he’s is a 28 year old deputy who has been with the force for two years. He spoke out after Floyd’s killing, but right now he’s feeling abandoned by the party he grew up with. I’m not sure I can blame him. There’s got to be a balance here. Not every police shooting is the same. Some are justified, though certainly you’d love to see the numbers significantly decrease across the board. 

 

I feel for your brother and all police officers in this time. Every officer I spoke with after Floyd was like that was murder. He needs to go to jail. That is not what the job is about. You see the comments on the news posts about last nights police shooting on I95 in Howard County. After the officer was dragged over 2,000 feet. If that wasnt justified shooting, I dont know what is anymore.

[visionary]

 

1 hour ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

More than a little distraught to see Kamala Harris calling for the officer that shot Blake to be charged. There’s a ton we don’t know about what happened. I’m not at all prepared to say that it wasn’t justified. We don’t know whether the knife was on him. 

The police have said there was a knife in the car (which is apparently pretty common), not on him. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by visionary

[sportjunkie07]

Blake fought the police and went to his car to get something against police orders while at gunpoint. 

 

Open and shut case. Don't do that and you won't get shot.

 

Put others in danger, violently resist arrest, and try to take it further and these things happen. It's that simple. 

[visionary]

8 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

Blake fought the police and went to his car to get something against police orders while at gunpoint. 

 

Open and shut case. Don't do that and you won't get shot.

 

Put others in danger, violently resist arrest, and try to take it further and these things happen. It's that simple. 

LOL, what nonsense.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

10 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

Blake fought the police and went to his car to get something against police orders while at gunpoint. 

 

Open and shut case. Don't do that and you won't get shot.

 

Put others in danger, violently resist arrest, and try to take it further and these things happen. It's that simple. 

 

I'm just gonna quote myself:

 

"An officer had grabbed Blake's shirt and fired his service weapon seven times into the 29-year-old's back"

 

I'm trying real hard to imagine the scenarios in which this is more than ok to do. I'm also trying real hard to figure out if what we've seen on video and what's been detailed by the police so far can realistically morph into one of those scenarios. Not seeing it so far.

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

[Larry]

13 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

Blake fought the police and went to his car to get something against police orders while at gunpoint. 

 

Open and shut case. Don't do that and you won't get shot.

 

Liquor store clerk didn't hand over the money while at gunpoint.  

 

Open and shut case.  Don't do that and you won;t get shot.  

 

------

 

I believe I have now sufficiently dealt with the assertion that, if there is anything the victim could have done differently, then it's the victim's fault?  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

20 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

Blake fought the police and went to his car to get something against police orders while at gunpoint. 

 

Open and shut case. Don't do that and you won't get shot.

 

 

Yeah, if you only obey the law and obey the police you'll only be tazed, get jump-kicked in the back, and arrested.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[visionary]

 

[Yohan]

There was a Kenosha officer that was shot in daylight, survived, while investigating a car break in 2 weeks before the Jacob Blake shooting. Just wonder how much that plays a role in the officer being on edge. (Suspect was caught 4 days later in Indiana) I am not trying to make excuses, and one incident doesn't have anything to do with the other.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, Yohan said:

There was a Kenosha officer that was shot in daylight, survived, while investigating a car break in 2 weeks before the Jacob Blake shooting. Just wonder how much that plays a role in the officer being on edge. (Suspect was caught 4 days later in Indiana) I am not trying to make excuses, and one incident doesn't have anything to do with the other.

 

I would say the possibility of getting shot or being killed is an issue police deal with everyday. So I'm not sure how much the shooting you mentioned would have heightened the police's concern even more.

 

I feel like the issues are insufficient training on how to de-escalate with less force, subconscious (or in too many cases, very conscious) biases and racist views of men of color as more dangerous, and a culture that says protect the shield at all costs.

 

[Llevron]

6 minutes ago, Yohan said:

There was a Kenosha officer that was shot in daylight, survived, while investigating a car break in 2 weeks before the Jacob Blake shooting. Just wonder how much that plays a role in the officer being on edge. (Suspect was caught 4 days later in Indiana) I am not trying to make excuses, and one incident doesn't have anything to do with the other.

 

Officers arnt the only ones on edge in 2020. 

[PokerPacker]

3 hours ago, visionary said:

The mistrust isn't just among African Americans.  There is a significant racial element to the problem that makes it much worse for minorities, but a large part of the problem is the way police are taught to interact with and view others and each other.   Not to mention the rules and (despite what some might say) training that often turns good people into bad ones along with those who are in it for a power trip or to hurt people.  

The way I see it, and I'm open to criticism of my position, is that it is primarily an issue of police-culture/law/qualified immunity.  The thin blue line to protect cops at all costs no matter how dirty.  The manifestation of it can be clearly seen in racist actions taken by racist cops who are then protected by all the other cops because the only color that truly matters is blue.  We similarly saw a couple months ago the cops circled their wagons and applauded--as an entire department--two cops who cracked open the scull of a 70 year old white man who was of zero threat.

 

I believe that the racial issues we see with policing is the readily visible symptom of much deeper problems.  We need to fix the systemic injustice and break through the thin blue line.  We need to abolish CBAs that protect officers from punishment for abusing power and brutalizing civilians.  Once that is accomplished, we will have the power to solve the racial issues more visible on the surface.

43 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Yeah, if you only obey the law and obey the police you'll only be tazed, get jump-kicked in the back, and arrested.

Or murdered like George Floyd.

[Destino]

Jacob Blake was absolutely in the wrong for fighting police and bizarrely trying to just walk away and casually enter his vehicle.  He had a warrant, the cops knew it, and the only outcome acceptable in that situation is Blake arrested.  Doesn’t matter how he feels about it.  His resisting arrest was illegal.

 

That said, three police officers should have been able to subdue an unarmed man without shooting him seven times in the back.  People should not be getting shot because they might be doing something dangerous.  That standard for deadly force is entirely too low.

[abdcskins]

Both sides were wrong. Blake should have not resisted and gone for a knife, and the cops should have figured out a way to restrain/detain him without shooting him seven times in the back. Excessive force is the key word in these incidents. Not necessary to shoot him.

 

Dichotomous thinking needs to be avoided. You can't blame one side (perpetrator/police) without acknowledging the other party could have acted better.

[visionary]

 

[The Evil Genius]

28 minutes ago, abdcskins said:

Both sides were wrong. Blake should have not resisted and gone for a knife, and the cops should have figured out a way to restrain/detain him without shooting him seven times in the back. Excessive force is the key word in these incidents. Not necessary to shoot him.

 

 

Splitting hairs but was he going for a knife or was there simply just a knife in his car (that they located afterwards)? Nothing I've read or seen has said he was going for a knife. 

 

As an aside, the overall police view of people filming these incidents has to change. Like the bodycams, police need to welcome this as an everyday part of their lives. They should hold themselves to higher standards since they do (and expect) the same of the public. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by The Evil Genius

[visionary]

21 minutes ago, abdcskins said:

Both sides were wrong. Blake should have not resisted and gone for a knife, and the cops should have figured out a way to restrain/detain him without shooting him seven times in the back. Excessive force is the key word in these incidents. Not necessary to shoot him.

 

Dichotomous thinking needs to be avoided. You can't blame one side (perpetrator/police) without acknowledging the other party could have acted better.

I've seen some people saying he went for the knife, is that what happened, or what people are assuming?  (Keep in mind that the police sometimes change their story after these things develop)  Wasn't he trying to leave?  Also can someone explain whether he fought with police as I've seen some say?   He attacked them or what?  I haven't seen the video, so am going by what everyone has said so far.

Edited August 28, 2020 by visionary

[drowland]

1 hour ago, abdcskins said:

Both sides were wrong. Blake should have not resisted and gone for a knife, and the cops should have figured out a way to restrain/detain him without shooting him seven times in the back. Excessive force is the key word in these incidents. Not necessary to shoot him.

 

Dichotomous thinking needs to be avoided. You can't blame one side (perpetrator/police) without acknowledging the other party could have acted better.

 

Should he have resisted, no.  But doesn't mean he should be shot seven times.  The knife thing is unclear at this point.  Thing for me is it's not like Blake ran to other side of the car.  He walked and the 3 police officers there had ample time to try and restrain him before he opened the car door.  Instead they pulled out guns and stalked him around the car and looked like they were creating a perimeter.  Which makes me think they were intending to shoot before Blake even got to the driver's side of the car.  

Edited August 28, 2020 by drowland

[Hooper]

Crazy, complicated, emotional times. And we have a "leader" who lives to pour gasoline on the fire -- no president in my lifetime has failed the most basic test of at least trying to calm the country until Trump came along.  It is mind-boggling and Lord only knows how bad things are going to get going forward. Add the cancer that is cable news, social media, mix in the anxiety and stress that comes with Covid... I mean nothing would surprise me at this point. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Slight NSFW-language

 

 

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

People should not be getting shot because they might be doing something dangerous.  That standard for deadly force is entirely too low.

Difficult to balance. 
 

people do pull guns on police. Police do get shot. 
 

not smart to fight with police, disobey orders, then reach into a car (or otherwise reach for something where they can’t see)

 

I’m not trying to say there isn’t a problem. But all of these aren’t the same. And in some of these cases the actions of the person the police shot make it not really hard to understand the outcome 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

8 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Slight NSFW-language

 

I have to support anyone with a wrestling name of the Buttercream Dream

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

[sportjunkie07]

1 hour ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Splitting hairs but was he going for a knife or was there simply just a knife in his car (that they located afterwards)? Nothing I've read or seen has said he was going for a knife. 

He wasn't reaching in the car to grab lollipops for the officers.