2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Panninho]

32 minutes ago, WEARE1554 said:

It appears I have different views on Parsons than most of you-probably since I am a Penn State fan.  I’ll try to give you a different perspective. He was admittedly immature as an early teen. How many on the board wasn’t that way at the same time.  The Stuff that allegedly happened at Penn State has continually been no findings.  There was not any evidence to substantiate the claims for a court case.  The player then filed a civil action and named 4 people that suit.  In all accounts he has grown became a better person. 
micah graduated with a 3.5 GPA in just over 3 years from Penn State. But all accounts been a stellar teammate and there is no denying his athletic ability.  
 

Thanks for the insight. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what I think anyways. If they decide to draft him, I have to assume that they did the background check on him and feel comfortable, so I would ultimately get on board. It's also not just Parsons though, I don't love the idea of trading up for a LB in general.

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, seantaylor=god said:

I may be in the minority, but I think a lot of the QB rumors is top 15 teams trying to entice someone to trade up. I don’t think Denver, Detroit, or Carolina take QB 4, and hopefully they don’t con the dumbass Bears into a ridiculous trade.

Smokescreens from everywhere this week....totally with you. Cannot believe half of what you hear all week.

[method man]

6 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

--------

About the QB discussion. Elite D with Fitzpatrick won't win us the Super Bowl. We might ride into the playoffs but look at Super Bowl winning QBs. You don't win with an average one. 

 

I think if we get in position to draft one. You take him. Because it's just a numbers game. For every amazing QB there are also amazing failures. If you keep hitting, you might find one. Next year's QB class is really really questionable. I can give you 6 potential guys but non has star power written over him. So skipping this year, bad class next year. 2023 our D will be different because of contracts. 

Joe Flacco

 

Before you say that’s the exception, remember a trait both guys share is that there are stretches where they play elite football (like Fitz w the Bucs in 2018)

[JoggingGod]

I love how nobody can guess if they like Fields or Lance. Conflicting sources on that.

Just now, method man said:

Joe Flacco

 

Before you say that’s the exception, remember a trait both guys share is that there are stretches where they play elite football (like Fitz w the Bucs in 2018)

Flacco played incredible those 2012 playoffs. He had 12 TDs 0 INTs, so he wasn’t a bad/meh QB being carried.

[method man]

2 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

I love how nobody can guess if they like Fields or Lance. Conflicting sources on that.

Flacco played incredible those 2012 playoffs. He had 12 TDs 0 INTs, so he wasn’t a bad/meh QB being carried.

That’s exactly my point. Most of his career he was the definition of mediocrity (never made a Pro Bowl) but he got hot in the playoffs

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, method man said:

Keim has been telegraphing Werner for a while. Second time he has brought him up. He has also kept saying they like backers in the 2nd and 3rd round

 

 

Yep, I've mentioned that.  Actually its the third time he's brought him up.

 

 

[RWJ]

5 minutes ago, method man said:

Keim has been telegraphing Werner for a while. Second time he has brought him up. He has also kept saying they like backers in the 2nd and 3rd round

I don’t know if Werner makes it to #51. I think teams have a higher grade than the media types do. Three down linebackers who can play the run and pass are a valuable commodity. Just look at this past year’s FA class, which was devoid of them

I think Werner definitely makes it to #51 but do we have JOK rated #1 on our draft board.  I think so, so maybe Werner's their 2nd round graded LBer.  Rankings on players per ratings/rounds.  IF this, then that so on..  

[OtisDriftwood25]

What about the strategy of trading back a few spots to draft Moehrig and pick up a extra 3rd. Use that extra 3 plus 51 to get in the mid to late 30’s to take Jamin Davis or a Tackle.

[method man]

Just now, RWJ said:

I think Werner definitely makes it to #51 but do we have JOK rated #1 on our draft board.  I think so, so maybe Werner's their 2nd round graded LBer.  Rankings on players per ratings/rounds.  IF this, then that so on..  

 

I feel confident saying Jamin Davis is their 2nd rated LB and Werner is probably 3rd (I doubt they go for Parsons or Collins). The question is do they like Moses, Browning or the guy from Purdue if we get to the 3rd

[RWJ]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep, I've mentioned that.  Actually its the third time he's brought him up.

 

 

IMO, in the 2nd Werner is the best of them all.  Cox has been mentioned but there are issues with him against the run.  He's outstanding from what I've read in coverage.  

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

What about the strategy of trading back a few spots to draft Moehrig and pick up a extra 3rd. Use that extra 3 plus 51 to get in the mid to late 30’s to take Jamin Davis or a Tackle.

I'd be really happy with that.

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, method man said:

 

I feel confident saying Jamin Davis is their 2nd rated LB and Werner is probably 3rd (I doubt they go for Parsons or Collins). The question is do they like Moses, Browning or the guy from Purdue if we get to the 3rd

Yes, but everyone except Werner, I think is gone before #51 you've mentioned.  Maybe Jamin slides to the 2nd.  I don't like Moses or Browning in the 2nd.  The fella from Purdue is the guy, I think that SIP and others like.  I forget his name

[JoggingGod]

4 minutes ago, method man said:

That’s exactly my point. Most of his career he was the definition of mediocrity (never made a Pro Bowl) but he got hot in the playoffs

He was a really good QB before those playoffs, not some rando. Once he became mediocre the Ravens weren’t relavent. Then they drafted Lamar and became contenders again.

[Skinsinparadise]

As for the Fields versus Lance stuff.

 

Some National reporters think its Lance.  I've seen twice though that the source on that might be Lance's camp, Lance seems to think WFT likes him.

 

Beat guys think its Fields and they take it a step further and say there aren't in on Lance.  That's Keim, Standig, Sheehan.  And I noticed even Finlay shot down recently Lance as a possibility in a tweet exchange with a fan.

 

I'd trust beat guys over national guys save Schefter and Breer.  and Schefter and Breer from what I recall haven't weighed in on this.

 

Will see. 

 

[method man]

1 minute ago, JoggingGod said:

He was a really good QB before those playoffs, not some rando. Once he became mediocre the Ravens weren’t relavent. Then they drafted Lamar and became contenders again.

Agreed. The guy has always been a playoff QB and that is why they kept him around so long

[Riggo#44]

12 hours ago, KDawg said:

Yes. It’s going to be glorious.

[Panninho]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for the Fields versus Lance stuff.

 

Some National reporters think its Lance.  I've seen twice though that the source on that might be Lance's camp, Lance seems to think WFT likes him.

 

Beat guys think its Fields and they take it a step further and say there aren't in on Lance.  That's Keim, Standig, Sheehan.  And I noticed even Finlay shot down recently Lance as a possibility in a tweet exchange with a fan.

 

I'd trust beat guys over national guys save Schefter and Breer.  and Schefter and Breer from what I recall haven't weighed in on this.

 

Will see. 

 

I generally agree. Although I also wouldn't be totally surprised if they really like Lance and have managed to keep that to themselves. There have basically been no leaks recently. But yeah, most likely they actually dig Fields over Lance.

[JoggingGod]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for the Fields versus Lance stuff.

 

Some National reporters think its Lance.  I've seen twice though that the source on that might be Lance's camp, Lance seems to think WFT likes him.

 

Beat guys think its Fields and they take it a step further and say there aren't in on Lance.  That's Keim, Standig, Sheehan.  And I noticed even Finlay shot down recently Lance as a possibility in a tweet exchange with a fan.

 

I'd trust beat guys over national guys save Schefter and Breer.  and Schefter and Breer from what I recall haven't weighed in on this.

 

Will see. 

 

Ehhh national guys are almost always better than local beat guys. Like nearly 100% of the time. They are the ones that are going to have the most internal, solid sources and not just being fed iffy stuff that’s based on “senses”, although Keim is a lot better than JP, 106.7, etc.

[CurseReversed]

After going back and re-watching a lot of the players we have been talking about, this is my final super expert opinion rankings.

 

For the most part I think most people here are pretty aligned when it comes to LB's.  We all really like Davis, Collins, And JOK, and for good reason,  and I think its just a matter of slight preference in order or value at 19.   Maybe some are out on Parsons, and for sure I like him, but I am far from sold either.  Its hard to judge a personality from this far away.   I think he might have the biggest outright bust factor because of this and that is something that should be considered.  I don't know who will end up being the best of Collins, Davis or JOK, but I think they will all end up being decent Pro's, while Parsons, might be more likely to have an issue somewhere, who knows.

 

 My order on these guys is still 1. Parsons, 2. JOK, 3. Davis, 4. Collins. But I dont' think that any of them would be BPA defender at 19 any more, maybe not even Parsons.

 

I like Moehrig now above the LB's as BPA defender at 19.  The LB's all have great qualities and potential but they will have a steeper learning curve.  Moehrig is a blue chipper who has more experience, higher fooball IQ and is a clear cut above his competition.  He is a also a lot harder piece to find in the defensive scheme.    We already have two hybrid guys in Collins/Curl so JOK seems great but he is a luxury there.  Also there are a lot of other inside linebackers in the 2nd and 3rd that will probably still be huge upgrades.  I don't know if you can say the same about the safeties.  I love the idea of him being the next pro bowl, ball hawking free safety for the WFT.  Solid pick.

 

As far as the QB's go I am all for trading up for any of the top guys if they are affordable.  My only major difference of opinion from most here is in my preference of Jones over Lance.   Any reasonable trade up they would do for Lance I would like for Jones even more.  Fields would still be my top choice though.  I have no rankings for the later guys but hope that if they grab one its in the late 3rd or 4th. 

 

  While its true a WR, OL or CB could end up being the BPA for me, it would either have to be somebody sliding heavy or a trade up or back beyond all of these guy's range. 

Wishlist:

FIelds

Jones

Lance

Moehrig

Parsons

JOK

Davis

Collins.

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Sheehan just had a number of reporters on to make their prediction 

 

Standig just on, he remains pessimistic that they trade up for a QB.   Sheehan asked him to pick a player he went with Koramoah

 

Michael Phillips (who isn't plugged in so to me his guess is as good as anyone of us) and he doubled down that he hasn't gotten anything source wise.   He went with Christian Darrisaw

 

JP Finlay, he says he hears they like Koramoah.  He doesn't think Darrisaw, he seemed to be hinting there might be someone there not 100% sold on him.  He doesn't think they trade up.  Picked Koramoah

 

Scot Abraham (Channel 7), says he doesn't know.  OT or LB.   Koramoah.

 

Sam Fortier (WP) a read and react strategy, could trade up, could trade down.    Moehrig.

 

Niki Javala (can't pronounce her name).  Went with Koramoah but thinks he might be gone before 19. 

[Burgold]

10 minutes ago, method man said:

Agreed. The guy has always been a playoff QB and that is why they kept him around so long

Eli is probably the best example of a mediocre or sub-mediocre QB that caught fire in the playoffs to lead his team to two Superbowls.

[method man]

3 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Eli is probably the best example of a mediocre or sub-mediocre QB that caught fire in the playoffs to lead his team to two Superbowls.

I really hope Fitzy gets his shot, not just because I’m a WFT fan but because he deserves it. He’s such a grinder and good guy. In the modern era, he must be the only 7th rd QB who has been in the league this long

[mistertim]

10 hours ago, bh32 said:

The problem is you can't guarantee any of these QB's are franchise QB's..It's alot easier to make this Defense elite..So your willing to take a chance on a QB that won't even play this year and isn't even guaranteed to be even better than what they have..? You fix what is holding this Defense back and i bet this team has way more success.

 

Of course I'm willing to take that shot. So is RR and the FO if you believe what they say. They know perfectly well that if you want to take that leap and be a perennial contender you need your franchise QB. None of this is exactly a groundbreaking thought process. Pretty much every team in the NFL realizes it, which is why they keep trying to find their franchise QB even if they missed before. That's why KC gave up a bunch to move up for Mahomes. They knew they were unlikely to win a SB with a mediocre Alex Smith. Or at the very least not be a threat to go all the way year after year.

 

No QB is a guarantee. What is pretty much a guarantee is that unless you have a top QB you won't be a perennial contender. If you have an elite defense, a good running game, and a mediocre QB you might sneak into the SB once, though it's still unlikely, and if you do the chances are it would be a one and done thing (Jimmy, Foles, Flacco, Kaep). Great defenses are fun to watch, but if you don't have your QB of the future, that's pretty much all it is...you're unlikely to go very far, at least not consistently because elite defenses are really hard to keep together with the cap and contracts the way they are.

 

If you find a top QB your defense doesn't need to be super duper elite because in today's NFL offense is the main focus. The days of stout defenses and ground and pound offenses are a thing of the past. Obviously you want to have at least a decent defense, but I think you're wrong...it's not easier to build an elite defense because it depends so much on getting a whole lot of pieces and hitting on a whole lot of draft picks. With a top QB you only have to it on one guy. Clearly that's not easy but neither is hitting on an entire defensive unit.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Ehhh national guys are almost always better than local beat guys. Like nearly 100% of the time. They are the ones that are going to have the most internal, solid sources and not just being fed iffy stuff that’s based on “senses”, although Keim is a lot better than JP, 106.7, etc.

 

Nope.  Not from my experience, not even close.  The local guys are better sources with the local teams with some rare exceptions like i mentioned:  Schefter, Breer, Garafalo.  Same for other local teams.  The local guys have cultivated their local sources.   I am in a business where I deal with the media myself and am often a source and share info.  I know a lot more as for what's going on locally as does local reporters than a dude from NY or DC, etc.

 

I recall to this day when Ian Rapoport announced during the draft that we traded Kirk Cousins to the Browns and then had to backtrack. 

 

But yeah you can trust Lombardi over Keim as a source if you want but for me its not even close.  And if that's how you feel, I'd forget about Fields and start gettting excited about Lance.  Will see if it plays out.  It would be quite the egg on the face of Keim among others.   You never know.  It would be at a minimum entertaining to hear from Keim, Standig, Sheehan, Finlay about how they got it so wrong. 

 

For me if I saw Schefter say they are all in on Lance.  I'd buy it.  but Lombardi?  Where national guys excel at is breaking news because the agents tell them first.   And Schefter to me is the God of football gossip.  I'd trust him 100%.  Lombardi isn't really even a reporter. 

 

 

[rumplestilskin]

9 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Eli is probably the best example of a mediocre or sub-mediocre QB that caught fire in the playoffs to lead his team to two Superbowls.

Dilfer, Johnson and McMahon are also good Not great QBs to win it on the back of a solid D.