2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[PartyPosse]

17 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

They settled for future 1s and Goff. We offered them a 1st and 3rd this year. They should just run that trade back, 1st and 3rd this year and 1st next year for their 7th pick this year. Assuming Fields/Lance is there at 7.

I wonder if that was their plan all along. Get future picks for Stafford and sell off 7 to the highest bidder. They could end up with three first rounders next year plus still have a late teen first rounder this year.

[JoggingGod]

1 minute ago, bh32 said:

It would be stupid to trade up and give up a bunch of picks for a player that won't even be on the field this year..The Defense needs a LB and FS to make it elite..finish the Defense and worry about QB next year.

Think about the long term, not the short term. Ron wants to make sure he is set up with a signal caller that will keep the team in contention for a while.

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

 

I don't think anybody buys that they didn't know who they were picking long before now

It's Mac Jones all the way.

[bh32]

Just now, JoggingGod said:

Think about the long term, not the short term. Ron wants to make sure he is set up with a signal caller that will keep the team in contention for a while.

I am thinking long term..Your just gonna waste that DL because you have no LB's or FS..Finish the Defense and then work on the QB..Everyone will be ****ing and moaning the minute every TE runs though the middle of this Defense this year.

[dyst]

Board will pop if Fields ends up here.

[JoggingGod]

1 minute ago, bh32 said:

I am thinking long term..Your just gonna waste that DL because you have no LB's or FS..Finish the Defense and then work on the QB..Everyone will be ****ing and moaning the minute every TE runs though the middle of this Defense this year.

There is no "wait for your QB" anymore in the modern NFL. You have to be agressive to get your guy.

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, dyst said:

Board will pop if Fields ends up here.

If NE trades for Jimmy G., I strongly believe we trade for Fields.  JMO.  

[bh32]

Just now, JoggingGod said:

There is no "wait for your QB" anymore in the modern NFL. You have to be agressive to get your guy.

 

2 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

There is no "wait for your QB" anymore in the modern NFL. You have to be agressive to get your guy.

Problem is this team isn't ready to be aggressive and get your guy..They need to finish the Defense this year and next year trade up for a QB.

[JoggingGod]

Just now, bh32 said:

 

Problem is this team isn't ready to be aggressive and get your guy..They need to finish the Defense this year and next year trade up for a QB.

No they don't. It's way easier to fill holes on defense than it is to find a franchise QB. 

[bearrock]

1 minute ago, bh32 said:

I am thinking long term..Your just gonna waste that DL because you have no LB's or FS..Finish the Defense and then work on the QB..Everyone will be ****ing and moaning the minute every TE runs though the middle of this Defense this year.

 

It all depends on what grade the FO is assigning to Fields and Lance (or Jones if Niners are really having a last minute change of heart).  If FO feels that Fields and Lance grade well enough to be a top 1-2 caliber picks in other years, but they are dropping to lower end of top 10 or teens due to the unique circumstances of this year, then they should move up to get them.  Typically, you would have to pay way higher price to get a top caliber QB in a draft and acquiring a veteran franchise QB is exceedingly rare.  LBs and Safeties are holes you can fill in any given year, either by the draft or FA.  (And apparently the sentiment around the league is that this is a pretty deep draft LB-wise)

[RWJ]

16 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I wonder if that was their plan all along. Get future picks for Stafford and sell off 7 to the highest bidder. They could end up with three first rounders next year plus still have a late teen first rounder this year.

Could be Double P.  Who knows.  

[bh32]

Just now, JoggingGod said:

No they don't. It's way easier to fill holes on defense than it is to find a franchise QB. 

Ok.. so Fields is Guaranteed to be a franchise QB?

[JoggingGod]

2 minutes ago, bh32 said:

Ok.. so Fields is Guaranteed to be a franchise QB?

No but you have to take the chance. It's the only way you become a contender

[Anselmheifer]

12 minutes ago, bh32 said:

I am thinking long term..Your just gonna waste that DL because you have no LB's or FS..Finish the Defense and then work on the QB..Everyone will be ****ing and moaning the minute every TE runs though the middle of this Defense this year.

 

I'm pretty sure I can't be the only one that thinks we'd make this defense elite faster by adding another elite CB over LB and FS. You can find a FS in the 3rd-5th. Let's say Jaycee Horn and Micah Parsons have equivalent grades. Give me another press man CB with elite length and athleticism. Give me WJIII and Horn on the outside and Fuller at slot. We can find another LB. 

 

I think it was SIP that suggested the plan may be elite DL, elite secondary. I agree with this approach. 

[RWJ]

29 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Start with the Chiefs trade up from 27 to 10.

 

So 19, 82 and 2021 1st would be a bit *more* than Chiefs gave up for Mahomes. 
 

I don’t really think we’ll have a huge bidding war but we’ll see. I think 1/3/1 gets it done or maybe 1/2/1 and getting a 3 or 4 back this year. 

I can live with that.  1/3/1 would be fine.  Don't like the 1/2/1 and getting back a pick.  

[bh32]

1 minute ago, JoggingGod said:

No but you have to take the chance. It's the only way you become a contender

No it's not..Jimmy Garoppolo made it to a SB without being elite..Elite Defense will always beat a Elite Offense always has and always will

[RWJ]

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah agree but we aren't alone as for not liking him at tackle.  But I agree the common refrain is he can play both.  Seems like the argument for the idea that he can play tackle is that statistically he didn't give up much as far as sacks and as a guard he's good at pass protection so they extrapolate that it will come together for him over time.  For me i don't care about that, you could see him struggling to contain defenders at tackle regardless of whether he gave up sacks.  And the NFL obviously won't be easier on that front than the PAC 10. 

See my DM.

[mistertim]

23 minutes ago, bh32 said:

 

Problem is this team isn't ready to be aggressive and get your guy..They need to finish the Defense this year and next year trade up for a QB.

 

I don't see why not. We have a very good but not elite defense, a pretty good OL, and we added playmakers on offense to compliment Terry. If you just keep trying to fill every possible hole in your defense, by the time you get there your players are going to be coming up for contract extensions and with a ton of first round guys you're likely going to have to let at least one of them walk. Great defenses generally only have a shelf life of a few years. Great QBs have a much bigger impact over a much longer period of time.

 

Also, the general consensus seems to be that next year's QB crop is going to be very underwhelming while this year's is excellent. Why trade up in a ****ty QB class?

 

10 minutes ago, bh32 said:

No it's not..Jimmy Garoppolo made it to a SB without being elite..Elite Defense will always beat a Elite Offense always has and always will

 

Jimmy made it to a SB without being elite...once. And he's almost guaranteed to never sniff one again. Top defenses with mediocre QBs may sneak into a SB once but they won't be perennial contenders. If you want to be a threat to go all the way in any given year, you need a top franchise QB. Yeah mediocre QBs may go to one SB (Jimmy G, Flacco, Foles, Kaep) but they'll never made it back again.

[JoggingGod]

12 minutes ago, bh32 said:

No it's not..Jimmy Garoppolo made it to a SB without being elite..Elite Defense will always beat a Elite Offense always has and always will

Ok and do we have Kyle Shanahan to scheme an offense around him? No, we don't. And offense wins championships now. It's been that way for the past 20 years.

[bearrock]

6 minutes ago, bh32 said:

No it's not..Jimmy Garoppolo made it to a SB without being elite..Elite Defense will always beat a Elite Offense always has and always will

 

And the Niners lost.  Chiefs and TB won with very good (lower half of top 10) defense, but not elite.  WFT already had a top 5 defense last year with holes in LB and FS.  When's the last time a team won the SB without an elite QB?  Eli and Flacco probably, but to be fair, they caught lightning in a bottle during those runs.  (I guess Seattle's Legion of Boom won before Wilson became elite, but that's a historically good defense.  Even with additions to this defense, it would be a tall task to be historically good)

[bh32]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't see why not. We have a very good but not elite defense, a pretty good OL, and we added playmakers on offense to compliment Terry. If you just keep trying to fill every possible hole in your defense, by the time you get there your players are going to be coming up for contract extensions and with a ton of first round guys you're likely going to have to let at least one of them walk. Great defenses generally only have a shelf life of a few years. Great QBs have a much bigger impact over a much longer period of time.

 

Also, the general consensus seems to be that next year's QB crop is going to be very underwhelming while this year's is excellent. Why trade up in a ****ty QB class?

The problem is you can't guarantee any of these QB's are franchise QB's..It's alot easier to make this Defense elite..So your willing to take a chance on a QB that won't even play this year and isn't even guaranteed to be even better than what they have..? You fix what is holding this Defense back and i bet this team has way more success.

[Ball Security]

12 minutes ago, bh32 said:

No it's not..Jimmy Garoppolo made it to a SB without being elite..Elite Defense will always beat a Elite Offense always has and always will

The defense that carried JG to the Super Bowl had a fifth round rookie MLB.  A great line makes the other two units better.  We can improve those holes with non 1st/2nd round picks.

[bh32]

1 minute ago, bearrock said:

 

And the Niners lost.  Chiefs and TB won with very good (lower half of top 10) defense, but not elite.  WFT already had a top 5 defense last year with holes in LB and FS.  When's the last time a team won the SB without an elite QB?  Eli and Flacco probably, but to be fair, they caught lightning in a bottle during those runs.  (I guess Seattle's Legion of Boom won before Wilson became elite, but that's a historically good defense.  Even with additions to this defense, it would be a tall task to be historically good)

Peyton Manning won a SB in Denver with a elite Defense..

Just now, Ball Security said:

The defense that carried JG to the Super Bowl had a fifth round rookie MLB.  A great line makes the other two units better.  We can improve those holes with non 1st/2nd round picks.

Not when you have traded those picks to move up..lol

 

[Ball Security]

1 minute ago, bh32 said:

Peyton Manning won a SB in Denver with a elite Defense..

Not when you have traded those picks to move up..lol

 

We’re going to have two throw in 2 3’s, a 4th, a 5th, and 2 7ths in addition to 2 1s and a second to go from 19-7? Well, then yeah, count me out. Lol

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, Ball Security said:

We’re going to have two throw in 2 3’s, a 4th, a 5th, and 2 7ths in addition to 2 1s and a second to go from 19-7? Well, then yeah, count me out. Lol

Yeah, we can trade 1/3/1 and still get Cox at 51, Cisco at 74 and have arguably just as solid of a defense as we would if we went Jamin Davis at 19 and Cisco at 74. The difference being you’re down a 3rd to potentially address OT or TE. Could always trade back from 51 to recoup picks too.