2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

This is just nuts and wrong. Tyree Hill is probably the fastest, most explosive WR in the NFL. Travis Kielce, a TE, was SECOND aim the league in receiving, with 1416 yards for 13.5 yards per reception. Mecole Hardman is very fast/explosive. Even Watkins, who I agree isn’t great, is a fast, explosive guy. CEH may not have been elite, but he can catch. He had 36 receptions for 300 yards. 

The argument were the other pieces outside of Kelce and Hill. No doubt they’re elite but the rest of the offense isn’t anything special.

[Fresh8686]

 

[Anselmheifer]

1 minute ago, PartyPosse said:

The argument were the other pieces outside of Kelce and Hill. No doubt they’re elite but the rest of the offense isn’t anything special.

The other pieces aren’t elite on their own, but they can all take the top of the defense and they can all turn a short catch into a long game. 
 

Nobody has three #1 receivers. But they have elite talent and behind that elite talent they have dangerous weapons that are. Ore limited. 
 

McQueen I think was saying we need weapons. The KC argument doesn’t do anything but support that idea. 

[Going Commando]

54 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Payton Turner is going to be a very good day 2 pick for someone.

 

He popped for me watching the clips from the SB practices.  He's all arms and legs and doesn't have NFL caliber functional strength yet, but he's still an absolute bear to handle because of that length and tenacity.  I think he's going to go on day 2 too.  I think second round isn't out of reach for him.  There is the Danielle Hunter effect with him.

 

Side note: it's going to be pretty cool when people's go-to NFL comparisons for player archetypes will be some of our own players like Montez and Chase and Daron.

[PartyPosse]

5 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

The other pieces aren’t elite on their own, but they can all take the top of the defense and they can all turn a short catch into a long game. 
 

Nobody has three #1 receivers. But they have elite talent and behind that elite talent they have dangerous weapons that are. Ore limited. 
 

McQueen I think was saying we need weapons. The KC argument doesn’t do anything but support that idea. 

Well, Watkins is gone so they're definitely in need of a viable #2 WR.

[Fresh8686]

A possible safety/lb hybrid 

 

 

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

McQueen I think was saying we need weapons. The KC argument doesn’t do anything but support that idea. 

 

Yeah that was me.  I want to copy the track meet offense here.  The factor of having secondary players that can beat you deep like Houston and KC had that you speak of is valid.  But there is also the factor of needing depth to sustain a high level of functionality over the course of a season.  When McLaurin gets hurt we fall apart.  When Gibson gets hurt we fall apart.  We need so much more depth to get to the kind of offense that can compete at a SB level.  Realistically, WR and RB are rotation positions where, unlike at OL, guys can't function well when playing hurt so they need weeks off during the year.

 

It's to the point where I don't want to add any more slow RBs, and I don't want to add any more slow WRs unless they can block.

 

Speaking of which, one point I wanted to make about Owusu-Koromoah during last week's debate but forgot to--he's going to be getting blocked by WRs and TEs more snaps than by OLs.  His size isn't going to be an issue against those types of match ups.

[Burgundy Yoda]

On the other hand, Devonta Smith is going to Knicks games at MSG lol. Giants would have a pretty scary WR group if they got him IMO.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Est.1974]

27 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He popped for me watching the clips from the SB practices.  He's all arms and legs and doesn't have NFL caliber functional strength yet, but he's still an absolute bear to handle because of that length and tenacity.  I think he's going to go on day 2 too.  I think second round isn't out of reach for him.  There is the Danielle Hunter effect with him.

 

Side note: it's going to be pretty cool when people's go-to NFL comparisons for player archetypes will be some of our own players like Montez and Chase and Daron.

I would be more than happy if we had him in 2021 picking up those 40% of snaps played by Kerrigan last season. 
 

Cheap DE contract for 4 years as well whilst we need to pay others on that line.

[actorguy1]

 

[Fresh8686]

 

[Est.1974]

My God this really is when the news worthy things start to filter out. 

[PartyPosse]

36 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

eah that was me.  I want to copy the track meet offense here.  The factor of having secondary players that can beat you deep like Houston and KC had that you speak of is valid.  But there is also the factor of needing depth to sustain a high level of functionality over the course of a season.  When McLaurin gets hurt we fall apart.  When Gibson gets hurt we fall apart.  We need so much more depth to get to the kind of offense that can compete at a SB level.  Realistically, WR and RB are rotation positions where, unlike at OL, guys can't function well when playing hurt so they need weeks off during the year.

I think the depths argument of KC is a better argument than the argument that KC has a ton of playmakers. They did not have a single 100 yard receiving game from anyone outside of Kelce and Hill. Their offense is solely contingent on the health and production of three players. They lose one and the offense is suspect. Fortunately they've been pretty healthy. I don't think they missed a game last year, any of them. 

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

 

Well, this explains why he’s not QB2 to many. Still my QB1/2, though!

[mistertim]

59 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

 

I've only watched a limited amount of Cosmi. Is his technique that bad? If so I'd be a little worried. He's started 34 games over 3 seasons so it's not like he's some super raw guy who only recently started getting reps. Maybe his coaching wasn't that great?

 

40 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

A possible safety/lb hybrid 

 

 

 

I mean...how can anyone not want a guy named "Divine Deablo"?

[Skinsinparadise]

My receiver list.  Clearly this many WRs aren't going to be drafted.  But to me so many of them are good to different extents.  Draft loaded IMO with both high end and mid end talent.  I've watched at least some of every receiver but put much less time in the later round type receivers so I might change my tune if I spent more time watching those later round guys but i am a bit burn out on it so maybe on the weekend I'll watch the later round guys more than I have.  The top to mid round guys i watched plenty of time.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

the receivers based on YPC high to low, i took out some other stats which I included in the other list, to make it easier to read

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

 

[mistertim]

@Skinsinparadisehow does Waddle have a 100% contested catch rate?

[kingdaddy]

3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Jackson’s injuries have had zero to do with his size. He’s an explosive guy that has had soft tissue injuries. Hamstrings, etc. 

 

I worry about WR size mostly in terms of releasing off the line, contested catch situations and run blocking. 
 

Can anyone name a WR that was frequently injured in collisions because of a slight frame? Did Devonta miss time for injury in college?

Jackson has had all kinds of injuries including shoulder, ribs, abdomen strain, several ankle injuries, concussions, etc.....common sense tells you that a thinner, less weight guy playing a big mans sport is gonna be more susceptible to injuries....it's not a shot at Smith's talent, it's just a concern given taking him vs taking Chase.  By the way, how can anyone say that a guys injuries have "zero to do with his size"? Brandon Cooks is another burner who has had multiple concussions and other injuries....undersized guy who can fly but has missed several games with injuries. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

From Breer

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/04/21/nfl-draft-mailbag-mac-jones-49ers-falcons-trades

 

From Craig Ginsberg (@CraigAdamG): Which of the 3 QBs after Trevor Lawrence and Zach Wilson have the best chance of falling in the draft?

Craig, I think all of them will go in the first 10 picks. If you were asking me to set up ranges right now, I’d put Fields’s range at three to eight, Lance’s range at three to nine, and Jones’s range at three to 15, with Jones probably still most likely to go third.

I think that reflects the truth, which is that this is a very, very strong quarterback class with multiple players worthy of going first overall, and the one who will be standing as a truly generational prospect at the position. Also, I’d add that sometimes a quarterback’s sliding can be a blessing in disguise. Not going at the very top, after all, made Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes available to consistent contenders with a ton of stability in the front office and coaching staff. Guys drafted in front of those two didn’t have that benefit.

 

From Dog faceOrange heart (@WhereMyDawgz): Other than Farley and Parsons that could potentially slip, who else can you see fall?

To be clear here, Caleb Farley’s issues are health-related (back surgery), and Micah Parsons’s go back to his makeup/character. Both are freak athletes. Both are capable of being top-shelf pros at their position (Farley a cornerback, Parsons a linebacker). Farley needs a little luck. Parsons needs a little maturity. I know their blemishes aren’t disqualifying for some teams, so we’ll see who takes the plunge. If either reaches the back half of the first round, the value there could be sky-high.

Some others that have slid a little …

• Michigan OT Jalen Mayfield was banged up this year, playing just two games last fall, and didn’t work out well at his pro day. At this point, I’d be surprised if he goes the first round.

 

• I don’t think Minnesota WR Rashod Bateman is falling so much as some of the speedy slot receivers (Ole Miss’s Elijah Moore, Florida’s Kadarius Toney) have passed him. Part of that, too, is just the NFL trending toward players like that (call it the Tyreek Hill Effect).

• Oklahoma State OL Teven Jenkins and RB Chuba Hubbard are two others who’ve slid. There are concerns over Jenkins’s injury history (back) and makeup, and Hubbard’s a back whose calling card, lacking elusiveness, was speed, and he only ran in the 4.5s.

• Miami DE Greg Rousseau is another opt-out who could have used a great spring and has just been so-so in the run-up to the draft.

 

....When I had Dilfer on my podcast, he said that Jones has a “twitchy mind,” a reference to how fast he processes and plays. This, so you know, checks out with NFL people. One team told me that it asked him in April to recall the first thing they’d installed with him over predraft meetings, and Jones immediately spit out everything about the play. And remember, at this point of the process, these kids have a lot floating around in their heads, given the number of teams (and other people) they’re talking to. “He’s as smart as advertised,” said one exec. “I’d say borderline genius when it comes to football.”

 

2) Obviously, the possibility that Jones would be in play has led to a lot of intrigue with the Niners at No. 3. The team’s brass is still swearing to other teams that they haven’t made a final decision on what they plan to do. Seem impossible? Sure it does, until you really think about it. Of course, Kyle Shanahan had a leaning when the trade was made. He’d done two months of work on those guys. It’d be hard not to have one at that point. But what if, for argument’s sake, Shanahan came to a comfort level with one of the three quarterbacks (beyond Lawrence and Wilson) that the Niners saw as first-rounders? And what if he said, I can see Mac Jones being my quarterback for the next 15 years? And what if he was also intrigued by Lance and Fields, but used Jones as the baseline, the I know I’m going to like what I get at No. 3 regardless guy? And what if that was just the starting point for a month of work to get to know all three and make the best call? That, it seems to me, would be a smart approach for a smart organization. And honestly, I think it is their approach.

 

3) Lots of teams think the Falcons are going to sit where they are and take Florida tight end Kyle Pitts, and really for two reasons. One, the asking price for a team to get up to No. 4 is high, as you’d expect it would be after what the Dolphins got for the third pick. Two, it’s been pointed out by a few people how the Matt Ryan contract restructure makes it more difficult for the Falcons to move on from him not just this year, but next year too—and how if they were looking to set up a quarterback transition, they’d be more likely to take their cap medicine now. So yes, Atlanta’s looked very hard at all the quarterbacks, and the Falcons are among a small group of teams to have multiple people at both pro days for both Fields and Lance. If I had to guess, this may well come down to which quarterback falls to them and how that quarterback compares to Pitts.

 

4) While we’re there, I’ve said this before, but the way people talk about Pitts reminds me a lot of how people talked about Quenton Nelson coming out of Notre Dame three years ago—where the only thing to pick at, really, is whether or not to draft a player at his position that high. And as one veteran evaluator said to me, someone is going to have to put that thought in the proper place on draft day: “He’s the best player, so get over it.”5) Detroit at No. 7 is the other team that’s generated buzz as a trade-down team. And with many believing that Cincinnati and Miami will stick at No. 5 and 6, if Atlanta takes Pitts, it could give the Lions a shot to auction off the right for someone to get in front of Carolina and Denver for a quarterback. If the Lions stay there, I’d just keep an eye on the background of the two guys in charge, GM Brad Holmes and coach Dan Campbell, and their history of valuing offensive linemen (Penei Sewell? Rashawn Slater?). And I also wouldn’t ignore the presence of Chris Spielman, who joined the organization in December, which would explain why I’ve heard them connected to Penn State LB Micah Parsons.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

@Skinsinparadisehow does Waddle have a 100% contested catch rate?

 

I'd gather a short sample is how.

 

From what I understand they just rate that amount of reps they had and rate those.  You'll see that on other stats.    To use a baseball analogy if you are up to the plate 3 times and get 2 hits then you are a 666 batter technically.  So as I said in another post, you can't take every stat too literally there is context to it.  So in Waddle's case he got hurt and had a smaller sample size than most and I gather he didn't have a lot of contested catch reps considering he's a deep threat and can take a short pass to the house.    He's not that type of dude you are throwing it up in the air with a corner draped on him in part because a corner is rarely draped on him.  But I gather the rare time they tried it he won each time. 

 

Then you got some receivers who get thrown a lot of contested catches who might not have the highest score in part because its tough to win those all the time.  

 

Like I mentioned in a post, PFF in their own descriptions aren't a slave to their own stats, they at least try to go beyond it.  For example they will highlight a player's contested catch ability even if the player's scores aren't as high as another player on that same front.  To use the PFF stats properly IMO you got to factor the context around the player. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[redskinss]

If Mac jones does go 3rd we'll have to reevaluate our future thoughts on quarterbacks with zero mobility. 

Maybe this is a slight shift back towards valuing accuracy from the pocket as much as escapability from it.

[skinny21]

6 minutes ago, redskinss said:

If Mac jones does go 3rd we'll have to reevaluate our future thoughts on quarterbacks with zero mobility. 

Maybe this is a slight shift back towards valuing accuracy from the pocket as much as escapability from it.

And processing ability

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, redskinss said:

If Mac jones does go 3rd we'll have to reevaluate our future thoughts on quarterbacks with zero mobility. 

Maybe this is a slight shift back towards valuing accuracy from the pocket as much as escapability from it.

Dude runs a 4.7

 

What do you mean zero mobility? He makes Brady look like a literal statue