2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Going Commando]

If that dude goes third it's because the league thinks he's got Brady-esque intangibles.  Instincts and and decision making ability and leadership and competitiveness.  I don't see how in the world any team can make that kind of bet on a kid, especially in this of all years when you can't talk to anyone.  But here we are, he's going to go #3.

 

I'm just hoping he pushes someone good down to us.

[Anselmheifer]

3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

If that dude goes third it's because the league thinks he's got Brady-esque intangibles.  Instincts and and decision making ability and leadership and competitiveness.  I don't see how in the world any team can make that kind of bet on a kid, especially in this of all years when you can't talk to anyone.  But here we are, he's going to go #3.

 

I'm just hoping he pushes someone good down to us.

Rather have Fields or Lance?

[mistertim]

38 minutes ago, redskinss said:

If Mac jones does go 3rd we'll have to reevaluate our future thoughts on quarterbacks with zero mobility. 

Maybe this is a slight shift back towards valuing accuracy from the pocket as much as escapability from it.

 

I think it will be a couple of years before we know that. If they pick him at 3 and he ends up mediocre or bad then it probably doesn't really indicate a shift in the league. If he ends up killing it then we can start talking about that.

[Skinsinparadise]

I posted a lot on Mac Jones during the college season, I like him.  I think some teams might be carried away on him now but that doesn't make me dislike him.  

 

Mac's RAS score, 7.19, rates him as an above average athlete.  He has en elite score for the broad jump which speaks to his agility.  As Chris Simms likes to say about Mac he's actually a decent athlete and not immobile.  Mac isn't a running QB but that's a different thing. 

 

I just listened to a Breer podcast where he interviews Brady Quinn about the QBs and they go Trask has the issues with mobility that some say Mac Jones falsely does.   

 

Trask can slide in the pocket well but that dude is slow, he's the statue in the pocket player not Jones IMO.   Mills is somewhere between Jones and Trask on that front IMO.  Mills runs a little more it seems than Jones but Jones strikes me the better athlete and the RAS scores back that up.

 

I've heard multiple times that Mac has big time intangibles.  Among them was Nagy saying during the senior bowl, one dude he'd see up at midnight studying the next day's game plan.  He among others have saying he loves football and works constantly at it. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Rather have Fields or Lance?

 

I think Fields but I don't really know.  I'll put it this way, if they were both there at our pick, I would lean towards Lance.  But I find a big trade up for Lance less tolerable than for Fields.  I think Lance has higher potential than Fields, I think he's a Josh Allen or Andrew Luck type of physical presence and that is tantalizing.  But I think he's an unknown and he could absolutely bomb here.

 

I think Fields is a bit of a poor man's Lamar Jackson and that he's got that competitive quality to him that's pretty special.  I think his coaches will love him and buy into him and stand by him.  My read of him is that he's focused and he's pretty clean and I think he's got a nice floor.  The only thing that is holding me up with him is I don't think he sees the whole field as well as I like, and I don't think his arm is as special as people have claimed.  Good touch thrower but there is a wind up process for him to drive the ball outside of the numbers that isn't necessary for Lawrence/Lance/Wilson.

 

I don't think he takes over games like Lamar/DeShaun, but if he can be like 85% of the QB that they are, then that is more than good enough for me.  He's the one I would trade up for if he drops a bit.

 

The other thing is I do not trust this staff with QBs, which makes me risk averse at the position.  Fields is a lower maintenance prospect IMO.  He's not going to take as much work as the other prospects to get to where he can play winning football.  He's the fit that makes sense for us.

[Burgundy Yoda]

Am I crazy to think that Divine Deablo moves around just like Leonard? Even though he's a safety, I think his movement is more similar to Darius Leonard, and I've seen the Jamin Davis comparison to Leonard and it isn't bad, but I think Deablo is a closer Leonard comparison. He's a super intriguing prospect if we don't get a LB in the 1st, he's definitely a WLB in the NFL. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Going Commando]

Trask is slow, but he has the arm to improvise and keep his eyes downfield and try stuff that Mac Jones has to move off of early in the rep.  That's how he copes with being slow.  He's big and fearless and ignores the rush and just stays with the play, and he was actually really good at managing his pressures and negotiating his pocket mud last season.

 

At the end of the day, he played better under pressure and did so more often than any of the other QBs except Lawrence.  That kid is a gamer.

 

Mac Jones is quick and decisive in the pocket and he rolls out effectively to clear his lanes but he is making all of his plays on easy mode.  He's not getting regular pressure and he's getting to set up and drive his intermediate throws and he's also getting big first read windows on basically all of his big plays. And he's also getting bailed out on his inaccurate throws at a level that was different from the other prospects.  He is not as touchy and accurate as people claim.  Especially if he's moving and throwing it short.

[actorguy1]

The belief in Mac Jones is that he can come into training camp and work his way to QB1 fror week 1 and do "ok" as a starter. The other two, I believe, are seen as varying levels of a project that needs time as backup to develop. 49ers see that as the most important attribute this season. Same reason Daniel Jones went no.6

[RWJ]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I posted a lot on Mac Jones during the college season, I like him.  I think some teams might be carried away on him now but that doesn't make me dislike him.  

 

Mac's RAS score, 7.19, rates him as an above average athlete.  He has en elite score for the broad jump which speaks to his agility.  As Chris Simms likes to say about Mac he's actually a decent athlete and not immobile.  Mac isn't a running QB but that's a different thing. 

 

I just listened to a Breer podcast where he interviews Brady Quinn about the QBs and they go Trask has the issues with mobility that some say Mac Jones falsely does.   

 

Trask can slide in the pocket well but that dude is slow, he's the statue in the pocket player not Jones IMO.   Mills is somewhere between Jones and Trask on that front IMO.  Mills runs a little more it seems than Jones but Jones strikes me the better athlete and the RAS scores back that up.

 

I've heard multiple times that Mac has big time intangibles.  Among them was Nagy saying during the senior bowl, one dude he'd see up at midnight studying the next day's game plan.  He among others have saying he loves football and works constantly at it. 

Now you know why I have the respect I do for Mac. 

[skinny21]

Regarding Cosmi, man what a double edged sword - major technique issues after all this time (solely based on Ledyard’s comments), but... imagine if he gets that cleaned up?

I’d be going hard in interviews about what they’re taught - gotta find out if it was a coaching issue, a problem with him not taking coaching (which, to be fair, could be partially considered a coaching issue itself), or what.

 

I’m assuming Darrisaw will be gone by 19, and depending on who falls to 19, my ideal scenario might be a trade back, potentially followed by a trade up in the 2nd for a tackle (if the trade back doesn’t net us one of course).  I’m worried that the 2nd rounders go before 51, and the guys like Brown/Carman go late 2nd-early 3rd.  Would be a shame to not take advantage of a deep class.

Edited April 21, 2021 by skinny21

[Skinsinparadise]

56 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Now you know why I have the respect I do for Mac. 

 

I probably posted more about Mac during the college season than anyone so I am very familiar with the player.  I've seen him play live, too.  I knew some of his personality -- knew he's a bit clownish among other things in the locker room.  I posted some of those articles back then, here.

 

But yeah the continual stories about how sharp he supposedly is and how hard he works, I'd need to see that over time from different sources before I just buy into it because there are plenty of fluff stories out there about plenty of players.   But if you didn't need that information/verification and sensed it on your own about Mac -- that's cool.   Personally, I need various stories to buy into a personality narrative -- I guess i am more cynical.  

 

Mac of late seems to be the player I hear that might fall into the mid teens if SF doesn't take him, so it might be an interesting ride.  the rumors about SF are all over the place.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

56 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

And he's also getting bailed out on his inaccurate throws at a level that was different from the other prospects.  He is not as touchy and accurate as people claim.  Especially if he's moving and throwing it short.

 

This is one difference we've had on the Jones versus Trask debate.  To me its Trask who isn't as accurate as people claim, especially if he is throwing short.  That's my eye test on it but PFF backs it up big.  They have Mac as the most accurate short distance thrower in this draft and charted Trask as not being as hot on that front by a nice margin. 

 

 

 

 

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Mac Jones is quick and decisive in the pocket and he rolls out effectively to clear his lanes but he is making all of his plays on easy mode.  He's not getting regular pressure and he's getting to set up and drive his intermediate throws and he's also getting big first read windows on basically all of his big plays. And he's also getting bailed out on his inaccurate throws at a level that was different from the other prospects.  He is not as touchy and accurate as people claim.  Especially if he's moving and throwing it short.

In fairness to Jones his processing speed and mid range accuracy are part of the reason he saw very little pressure. And I disagree with you about his short and mid range touch. On tape it is incredible. If anything he got bailed out on long balls more than I would like to see. But IMO Jones is an incredible QB in the mid and short range. Especially in the middle of the field. 

[RWJ]

57 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I probably posted more about Mac during the college season than anyone so I am very familiar with the player.  I've seen him play live, too.  I knew some of his personality -- knew he's a bit clownish among other things in the locker room.  I posted some of those articles back then, here.

 

But yeah the continual stories about how sharp he supposedly is and how hard he works, I'd need to see that over time from different sources before I just buy into it because there are plenty of fluff stories out there about plenty of players.   But if you didn't need that information/verification and sensed it on your own about Mac -- that's cool.   Personally, I need various stories to buy into a personality narrative -- I guess i am more cynical.  

 

Mac of late seems to be the player I hear that might fall into the mid teens if SF doesn't take him, so it might be an interesting ride.  the rumors about SF are all over the place.

It's all good, SIP.    Seriously, at one point I wanted Mac at #19, I've been off the wagon for awhile now and have been on the Darrisaw wagon.  Also, you've probably seen where I said if not Darrisaw then JOK and if not JOK then trade back.  Just my thinking.  

Edited April 21, 2021 by RWJ

[Koolblue13]

20 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

In fairness to Jones his processing speed and mid range accuracy are part of the reason he saw very little pressure. And I disagree with you about his short and mid range touch. On tape it is incredible. If anything he got bailed out on long balls more than I would like to see. But IMO Jones is an incredible QB in the mid and short range. Especially in the middle of the field. 

Jones is a real Pennington inside 10 yards.

[RWJ]

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This is one difference we've had on the Jones versus Trask debate.  To me its Trask who isn't as accurate as people claim, especially if he is throwing short.  That's my eye test on it but PFF backs it up big.  They have Mac as the most accurate short distance thrower in this draft and charted Trask as not being as hot on that front by a nice margin. 

 

 

 

 

Here's the question I have.  Do we even have interest in Jones?  The WFT guys say Mills.  I can handle us giving up a 2nd for him (Mills).  His form, arm strength look good (watching his Pro Day) that was re-broadcast on NFLN yesterday but I'd rather give up a 3rd instead.  But seems like the guy will be gone before we have a chance to select him in the 3rd so I get them saying the 2nd round for us to have the chance to draft him.  A high price for a QB that hasn't played a lot for the demand overrides the supply of quality proven field generals.  

Edited April 21, 2021 by RWJ

[Burgundy Yoda]

To me, someone who is a statue in the pocket is someone that doesn't sense pressure well at all. Like, Kirk Cousins for example. They're a statue because they don't feel chaos around them allowing edge rushers to get hits on their motionless bodies. 

 

Trask senses pressure really well, I think. He dealt with it all year at Florida with a God-awful Florida offensive line. He isn't fast outside of the pocket obviously, but inside the pocket Trask actually looks really good to me. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Dark Acre]

3 hours ago, skinny21 said:

And processing ability

Right.  What's the point in having multiple weapons if your Q can only use 1 or 2 at a time?  An "immobile" football Einstein only needs to have a little Houdini in him to get out of jams.  If he truly understands the play (formation, routes, safety valve), he's at an advantage when the play breaks down because if guys are where they're s'pposed to be, he just needs to know where he is.

[Anselmheifer]

Has anyone here talked about Micah Parsons’ hand size? He has 11” hands! I’ve never heard of 11” hands! 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Has anyone here talked about Micah Parsons’ hand size? He has 11” hands! I’ve never heard of 11” hands! 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Some insider scout stuff I just noticed that was put up today on the Athletic

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Warhead36]

Jerruh is more of a figurehead nowadays though. They gotta let him stroke his ego with stuff like this but his son Stephen and Will McClay run the show. Remember Jerruh wanted Johnny Manziel too. I kinda wish he did run things again because the Cowboys have actually drafted well in recent years.

[Skinsinparadise]

Corners with some stats.  I didn't rate these, I've watched some but not enough to do it, so I used Brugler in this case

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

Here's the question I have.  Do we even have interest in Jones?  The WFT guys say Mills.  I can handle us giving up a 2nd for him (Mills).  His form, arm strength look good (watching his Pro Day) that was re-broadcast on NFLN yesterday but I'd rather give up a 3rd instead.  But seems like the guy will be gone before we have a chance to select him in the 3rd so I get them saying the 2nd round for us to have the chance to draft him.  A high price for a QB that hasn't played a lot for the demand overrides the supply of quality proven field generals.  

 

Keim hinted in one of his podcasts about a month ago he didn't think they were in on Jones but forgot how he said it.  I know it was subtle.  I recall posting about it at the time on the Qb thread. 

 

I don't love Mills but I agree with most draftniks that he's the 6th best QB in the draft.  I'd rather not take him in the 2nd so like you I prefer if they must take him, then try to do it in the third round.   

 

I am not a Trask guy but wouldn't go nuts if they took him in the third, I don't think he will be a bust, I think he's a backup QB in this league but not a starter.  A third rounder for a backup QB is a bit pricey but not too over the top.  

 

Seems like the noise is they like one potential top 10 QB its likely Fields, maybe Lance.  In the 2nd they like Mills.  In the third they like Trask.   That would be the rumors.  But will see. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Skinsinparadise