2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Probably more strategic. He probably has a ton of feedback from teams. If there are teams at the top he wants to avoid an easy way is to not add weight to your frame.

 

Another possibility is he weighed even less before. 
 

Or maybe a team at the top wants him lighter so he opted to wait and see what happened.

 

Fast metabolism IS a thing but a good S&C coach can overcome that really easily.

 

I am not counting on him dropping but man would draft night be fun if he did.  I've been hopped up on Devonta for 2 years.  He has better hands IMO than Jeudy, Ruggs, Waddle.    He doesn't have their freak athleticism though.   Even in 2019, when Tua had to make a big throw in a clutch situation the go to guy was Devonta.   And for a small frame dude, he is quite the YAC/break tackles demon, too. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I thought the Tulsa proday was actually two days after this medical combine.  Looks like it was on the 3rd and the combine was on the 1st.  Does anyone else know the date of this combine for sure?

 

Shows how inconsistent these measurements are.  And I think Zaven is not the finely honed type of body formed in an NFL caliber strength and conditioning program, and that he walks around at fluctuating weights.

 

Zaven has untapped upside.  Physical as well as skill development upside.

 

His pro day I just looked it up, April 2nd, was about a week before medicals.  If I had to guess he thought it would benefit him to bulk up or he wanted to be as svelte as possible for his proday and maybe lost some weight right before it?   I hear some players will take off water weight, etc right before. 

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Zaven's speed I believe was clocked when he was he was at 259.  From what I understand he weighed himself then, too.  So I am gathering there might be a method to the madness of putting on 11 pounds basically in 2 weeks?

 

Tutu is fun to watch but wow you aren't surviving at 150 pounds in the NFL.  

 

As for Devonta he clearly needs to put on weight.  I am wondering if he drops to 19 now.  the thing is its not just he's too skinny but he's had the off season to change that narrative and he hasn't done it so I wonder if that alone makes some teams higher in the draft pause.   

 

 

Another possibility is that he was actually closer to 270 before and wanted to be faster for testing so he cut some weight before his pro day. Then after the pro day it came back quickly. 

 

As far as Smith...I get that guys can add weight. But 6'0 166? Good lord, that's insane. How does he even stay up in thunderstorms? I find it bizarre that he couldn't put at least a bit of weight on. Maybe as @KDawgsaid, it was strategic. But if not, that would be a worry for me. Maybe he just doesn't really have the frame to add much weight. Some guys are naturally super skinny and hard gainers.

 

A guy with that little muscle on his body would be a big durability concern for me.

Edited April 21, 2021 by mistertim

[Burgundy Yoda]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree Waddle will go earlier.  I love Devonta and would take him at 19.  But the fact that he had the off season to put on weight on hasn't done it is weird.  Super fast metabolism?

He could have been 160 or so during the year at Alabama. I'd love to draft him at 19 also but I would be holding my breath every time he was tackled. Robby Anderson is 6'3 190, which is less pounds per inch than Smith, some food for thought. I'd love for him to get to 175. Honestly though, does his play drop at a weight he's not used to? The guy kind of snakes around and gets to his top gear pretty quick, his light weight is a big advantage for him. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Another possibility is that he was actually closer to 270 before and wanted to be faster for testing so he cut some weight before his pro day. Then after the pro day it came back quickly. 

 

 

Agree, that's possible that's what i meant about him perhaps wanting to be as svelte as possible.   I didn't mean it from the context of looking cool on camera but from the context of speed/agility drills. 

30 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I do like Brevin's tape, but I just can't put a guy who's shown that he can't stay healthy as my TE2. I have Freiermuth as my TE2. 

 

Freiermuth missed most of last season for shoulder surgery which I beilieve he is still recovering from.  Brevin didn't miss nearly the same amount of time as Frieermuth at least last season.  i don't believe he's ever had surgery either.  But yeah I agree he's had his share of nagging injuries over his career -- shoulder sprain, ankle sprain, etc.  

Edited April 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

20 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Another possibility is that he was actually closer to 270 before and wanted to be faster for testing so he cut some weight before his pro day. Then after the pro day it came back quickly. 

 

As far as Smith...I get that guys can add weight. But 6'0 166? Good lord, that's insane. How does he even stay up in thunderstorms? I find it bizarre that he couldn't put at least a bit of weight on. Maybe as @KDawgsaid, it was strategic. But if not, that would be a worry for me. Maybe he just doesn't really have the frame to add much weight. Some guys are naturally super skinny and hard gainers.

 

A guy with that little muscle on his body would be a big durability concern for me.

Re: Zaven- Or his pro day measurement was wrong. You know... the whole record breaking performances thing from this year of testing? It’s possible it’s non sense.

[Going Commando]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

His pro day I just looked it up, April 2nd, was about a week before medicals.  If I had to guess he thought it would benefit him to bulk up or he wanted to be as svelte as possible for his proday and maybe lost some weight right before it?   I hear some players will take off water weight, etc right before. 

 

Probably cut some weight to try and run faster.  I bet he walks around close to 270 then.  I suspect his NFL team is going to have to get him to get his nutrition in order because he's carrying too much weight.  He strikes me as the type who hasn't had to work that hard for his body since he's always been able to dominate at his natural size.  Gonna have to change his habits to optimize his NFL career.

 

Twyman walks around heavier than I thought.  That guy is a ball of dense musculature.  His build is like a slightly smaller but proportional version of Daron's.  40 reps is pretty crazy, and it explains how he was able to anchor against so many double teams.  That kid is a rock.  If I had to pick, he's the defensive player that is going to vastly outplay his draft slot.  Mocked in the fourth or fifth round, but has fringe first round talent.

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Another possibility is that he was actually closer to 270 before and wanted to be faster for testing so he cut some weight before his pro day. Then after the pro day it came back quickly. 

 

As far as Smith...I get that guys can add weight. But 6'0 166? Good lord, that's insane. How does he even stay up in thunderstorms? I find it bizarre that he couldn't put at least a bit of weight on. Maybe as @KDawgsaid, it was strategic. But if not, that would be a worry for me. Maybe he just doesn't really have the frame to add much weight. Some guys are naturally super skinny and hard gainers.

 

A guy with that little muscle on his body would be a big durability concern for me.

 

Hard for me to believe that they are stuck with that with Devonta.  I'd presume Rivera and trainers would be able to figure out how to add muscle/weight.  So yeah I am with you if I looked at 166 pounds as something that will never change and they'd have to live with it.  It's possible.  But I'd bet on them figuring it out.  I've read a bunch on Devonta.  He's a competitive dude.  I'd think a motivator like Rivera would figure out how to bring out his best including bulking up.  But who knows. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[actorguy1]

 

[kingdaddy]

25 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

He could have been 160 or so during the year at Alabama. I'd love to draft him at 19 also but I would be holding my breath every time he was tackled. Robby Anderson is 6'3 190, which is less pounds per inch than Smith, some food for thought. I'd love for him to get to 175. Honestly though, does his play drop at a weight he's not used to? The guy kind of snakes around and gets to his top gear pretty quick, his light weight is a big advantage for him. 

I would compare Smith to DeSean Jackson and Jackson has struggled to stay healthy virtually his entire career. Jackson has had a nice career but he's been injured and off the field just about as much as he's been healthy and on the field. Smith is a stud for sure, just wonder how he'll hold up. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Overall, Trask is a quarterback capable of taking advantage of matchups created by the offense. Florida did a great job getting Pitts and Toney into favorable one-on-one looks and Trask did a good job taking advantage of those matchups and the talents of his receiving group. For Washington, offensive coordinator Scott Turner loves to move his best playmakers around to generate good matchups, so Trask would fit in with that. However, quarterbacks can’t win on that alone and I’m not sure Trask does enough to help elevate those around him. He’s often reckless with the football which could lead to a spike in turnovers at the next level. He doesn’t have the athletic ability to create when plays go south and his pocket management and poise needs work if he’s to survive purely in the pocket. Of the day two quarterback options, I personally much prefer Stanford’s Davis Mills to Trask.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Est.1974]

42 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

There are some rumors that teams told Zaven they want to draft him to play Edge?  I understand this Edge draft class isn't great, and 2020's (outside of Chase Young) was pretty bad.  So maybe some of these teams are desperate?

That’s were he has always looked an obvious fit to me. 

[clskinsfan]

I dont care what Devonta weighs. The guy dominated the best college players every single week. He will do the same in the NFL. When you watch his film no one can lay a hand on him. He is as dominate as a college WR can be.  He is a great punt returner as well. But I dont know if you would risk him in the NFL on punts with his size. 

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Freiermuth missed most of last season for shoulder surgery which I beilieve he is still recovering from.  Brevin didn't miss nearly the same amount of time as Frieermuth at least last season.  i don't believe he's ever had surgery either.  But yeah I agree he's had his share of nagging injuries over his career -- shoulder sprain, ankle sprain, etc.  

 

Yeah that's a fair point about Freiermuth. But it's the nagging injuries with Brevin Jordan that worry me. Makes me think of Jordan Reed; the guy always seemed to have some sort of nagging injuries that kept him off the field for at least a few games every season. I'm just wary of ending up in that situation again with a super talented guy who simply can't stay healthy for more than a certain amount of time.

 

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Hard for me to believe that they are stuck with that with Devonta.  I'd presume Rivera and trainers would be able to figure out how to add muscle/weight.  So yeah I am with you if I looked at 166 pounds as something that will never change and they'd have to live with it.  It's possible.  But I'd bet on them figuring it out.  I've read a bunch on Devonta.  He's a competitive dude.  I'd think a motivator like Rivera would figure out how to bring out his best including bulking up.  But who knows. 

 

Yeah I'd assume there's some way for him to add muscle. But then I'd wonder how much he could add before it would have a big negative impact on his game. If I'm an NFL team I'd probably be looking for him to add at least 20 pounds if possible...6'0 186 is still a bit small-ish for the NFL, but at least it would give him more protection.

 

So you'd have to weigh all the factors when thinking about spending a very high draft pick on him. Assuming that he can add a bunch of weight and still keep the same traits is probably overly optimistic. Then you ask yourself how much he could add without it making him less effective and whether that amount would still be sufficient in your eyes to protect him against the rigors of the NFL game.

[Warhead36]

Is he twitchy/explosive enough to be an edge? He'd probably be a solid all around 3-4 OLB/Edge but not a dominant pass rusher. Think Preston Smith type.

5 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I dont care what Devonta weighs. The guy dominated the best college players every single week. He will do the same in the NFL. When you watch his film no one can lay a hand on him. He is as dominate as a college WR can be.  He is a great punt returner as well. But I dont know if you would risk him in the NFL on punts with his size. 

He'll be a good player but at that weight all it'll take is one or two hits and he'll be out. I see him being one of those D Jax types where he's dynamic but he'll frustrate you with how often he'll have that "Questionable" tag during the week's practices.

[Est.1974]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Is he twitchy/explosive enough to be an edge? He'd probably be a solid all around 3-4 OLB/Edge but not a dominant pass rusher. Think Preston Smith type.

I’d say more Ryan Anderson than Preston Smith.

[Anselmheifer]

20 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I would compare Smith to DeSean Jackson and Jackson has struggled to stay healthy virtually his entire career. Jackson has had a nice career but he's been injured and off the field just about as much as he's been healthy and on the field. Smith is a stud for sure, just wonder how he'll hold up. 

Jackson’s injuries have had zero to do with his size. He’s an explosive guy that has had soft tissue injuries. Hamstrings, etc. 

 

I worry about WR size mostly in terms of releasing off the line, contested catch situations and run blocking. 
 

Can anyone name a WR that was frequently injured in collisions because of a slight frame? Did Devonta miss time for injury in college?

Edited April 21, 2021 by Anselmheifer

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I dont care what Devonta weighs. The guy dominated the best college players every single week. He will do the same in the NFL. When you watch his film no one can lay a hand on him. He is as dominate as a college WR can be.  He is a great punt returner as well. But I dont know if you would risk him in the NFL on punts with his size. 

 

Coaches have to take it into account though, especially when it's a very high pick. The muscle helps protect guys from big hits and tackles. A guy who's as skinny as Smith is going to give pause, because what does it matter how much he dominates if he ends up with durability problems and can't stay on the field?

 

Yes, nobody can lay a hand on him in college, so he didn't really have to worry about hits as much. But that won't be the case in the NFL. He won't be running free 5-10 yards away from the nearest DB in the pros. He's eventually going to take hits, and whether or not his body can absorb that is a legit concern IMO.

Edited April 21, 2021 by mistertim

[actorguy1]

Matt Miller on his podcast is doubling down on Mac Jones to 49ers saying their interest always leaks every year before the draft and that is always their pick. Unless all his sources are flat-out lying to his face.

[Anselmheifer]

3 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

Matt Miller on his podcast is doubling down on Mac Jones to 49ers saying their interest always leaks every year before the draft and that is always their pick. Unless all his sources are flat-out lying to his face.

If this is true, the 49’ers must have thought Atlanta wanted Mac Jones as a Matt Ryan replacement. 

[clskinsfan]

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Coaches have to take it into account though, especially when it's a very high pick. The muscle helps protect guys from big hits and tackles. A guy who's as skinny as Smith is going to give pause, because what does it matter how much he dominates if he ends up with durability problems and can't stay on the field?

 

Yes, nobody can lay a hand on him in college, so he didn't really have to worry about hits as much. But that won't be the case in the NFL. He won't be running free 5-10 yards away from the nearest DB in the pros. He's eventually going to take hits, and whether or not his body can absorb that is a legit concern IMO.

The guy played against NFL players in college though. He faced the best competition in college football weekly. And completely shredded it. He was the highest rated WR against press coverage in college in both 19 and 20. No one can get a hand on the guy. And if you press him and miss it is 6.

 

Want to beat him up with a linebacker in the slot? Good luck:

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by clskinsfan

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

There are some rumors that teams told Zaven they want to draft him to play Edge?  I understand this Edge draft class isn't great, and 2020's (outside of Chase Young) was pretty bad.  So maybe some of these teams are desperate?

 

A month + ago I remember the PFF guys talking about Collins best position would be 3-4 edge.  

[KDawg]

23 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I’d say more Ryan Anderson than Preston Smith.

Him bulking means he’s probably not a fit here as he’s been given feedback to bulk likely to play on the LoS.

 

That idea sours me on him. Unfortunately.

[Fresh8686]