2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Fresh8686]

23 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

 

I'd be thrilled with

1st - OT

2nd - LB

3rd - WR

3rd - TE

4th - OG

 

after we sign hooker or boston at FS (or signing kyle fuller as cb and kendall moves to FS, but that a lot less likely).

i feel you and the other dude on wanting a LB instead of a TE with the 2nd round pick. I go the other way because I feel there is a drop off in TE talent after Pat, Brevin, and Tremble go in the 2nd round. While we may have a chance to snag a LB in the third even if Cox and Jamin go in the 2nd. There may even be a chance that Dylan Moses is still available in the 3rd, plus some other guys who could be decent. 

[KillBill26]

7 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

i feel you and the other dude on wanting a LB instead of a TE with the 2nd round pick. I go the other way because I feel there is a drop off in TE talent after Pat, Brevin, and Tremble go in the 2nd round. While we may have a chance to snag a LB in the third even if Cox and Jamin go in the 2nd. There may even be a chance that Dylan Moses is still available in the 3rd, plus some other guys who could be decent. 

True, a lot of different scenarios that could play out.  In any event, I hope they don't reach for any pick, and if we address those positions early on, we will be in good shape for 2021 and beyond.  

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Pick

19

Washington Football Team

 

Zaven Collins

Tulsa · LB · Junior (RS)

Collins is a huge, active linebacker with excellent coverage instincts and an ability to become a tackle stacker at outside linebacker in Ron Rivera's defense.

[seantaylor=god]

I’m a big fan of Collins and JOK. I think the pick will be OT or one of them.

 

This is a really interesting breakdown of how JOK was used in college, just skip the beginning it’s an ad.

https://youtu.be/xcoKhKZvTp8

 

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

I’m a big fan of Collins and JOK. I think the pick will be OT or one of them.

 

This is a really interesting breakdown of how JOK was used in college, just skip the beginning it’s an ad.

https://youtu.be/xcoKhKZvTp8

 

JOK has insane closing speed and is an elite hammer. That guys amazing and is 1B with Parsons for talent.

 

I think Collins is the opposite type of backer and while not exactly aggressive, he's super smooth and makes being huge look easy.

 

Collins I think is going to have the better career overall, while JOK makes a major impact day one.

 

Didn't check the link first. He's fantastic. Hadn't seen that yet, so thanks.

[seantaylor=god]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

JOK has insane closing speed and is an elite hammer. That guys amazing and is 1B with Parsons for talent.

 

I think Collins is the opposite type of backer and while not exactly aggressive, he's super smooth and makes being huge look easy.

 

Collins I think is going to have the better career overall, while JOK makes a major impact day one.

I think you’re right. While I personally like Collins better and think he has more upside because of his natural size, JOK might be a perfect fit and immediately start at Nickel. He could stay there or eventually take over at WLB.

[CurseReversed]

Collins at 6-4 260 is almost the size of Young and Sweat. Thats crazy.

Id hate to be a qb trying to find a throwing lane with all those guys around me.  

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

If you had Young, Collins, and Sweat stretch their arms apart, barely touching each other, their total wingspan could cover the entire width of the field.

[Fresh8686]

 

[Berggy9598]

2 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

I liked the patience too. There's times you even see NFL linebackers attack the inside shoulder of the blocker and take themselves out of the play. Somehow that school has been producing very good NFL linebackers for years. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

Just watched an interview with Zaven Collins, that guy has his head screwed on right. He came off as really intelligent, I can definitely see him as the QB of a defense if given time. He'd fit right in with all the other likeable players we have on the team IMO. 

[Burgold]

It's kinda funny. Now, that we've taken QB out of the equation for a must-have in the first round, picking at 19 doesn't look all that bad. 

 

Mind you, if we can an Aaron Rogers kind of year or a Dan Marino kind of year where a really good QB prospect drops in our laps... it could be a QB kinda year, but given our needs LT, LB, S, TE WR, G... If six of the first ten picks are QBs (which seems impossible to me) then we are close to guaranteed  to get one of the best at their position.

[Koolblue13]

Davis is going to be a good LBer. Him and Collins are probably my top 2 now.

 

I'm still pretty high on Bolton too.

[DWinzit]

We know they showed interest in Milano and Morrow along with believed interest in L David. To me it feels like they wanted to fill a LB and draft a TE and LT with the first two picks. I would think they are going to focus on bringing in one of these positions now in FA to make to ease must haves early in the draft

[Going Commando]

15 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

i feel you and the other dude on wanting a LB instead of a TE with the 2nd round pick. I go the other way because I feel there is a drop off in TE talent after Pat, Brevin, and Tremble go in the 2nd round. While we may have a chance to snag a LB in the third even if Cox and Jamin go in the 2nd. There may even be a chance that Dylan Moses is still available in the 3rd, plus some other guys who could be decent. 

 

There will be LBer and TE2 talent available well after the second round.  We need to be hunting studs and finding value with our day 2 picks, not honing in on positions of apparent need.  Brevin and Freirmuth are the only TEs that interest me in that range of the draft, and that's only because they are dynamic and have a chance to be high quality starters.

 

Also I'm not convinced Tremble goes on day 2.  He's got almost no collegiate production and after I watched the ND offense, it felt like to me that the reason he's jumping ship to the NFL early is because that Freshman TE #87 is a lot better than him and Tremble was going to struggle to ever be a big part of their passing game.  If I were an NFL team drafting a TE with a day 2 pick, I'm not drafting him for his blocking.  I'm looking for a receiver and thus I'd be looking for someone with much more developed skills and a history of production than Tremble.  If I'm just taking a flier on a talented size/speed athlete with no production, then I'm better off with someone like McKitty in the sixth round than Tremble with a top 50 pick.

 

It's basically a two man position group, we don't have to force picks to build the roster here.

 

I wouldn't chase LBer either, as that is one of the easiest positions to fill on the roster.  If a special one like JOK or Collins matches up with BPA at our pick, then I'd take him.  A flawed but traitsy one like Davis in the second is appealing too because it feels like his ceiling is so high.  But after that, just hunt mid to late round value at the position and pass if doesn't materialize.  LBer is a three man position group realistically, given the snap counts they'll play.  The third DE or DT or Safety is more important than the third LBer today.  Unless you're getting an every down guy who can flex out to overhang roles (and not every defense will utilize this position), then you just need two stack guys and a trustworthy back up.  We're also not necessarily hurting for an overhang player because of Hudson, so I wouldn't go chasing Jabril Cox or Owusu-Koromoah either.

[Going Commando]

10 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

 

Rondale Moore takes that for positive yardage.  Either he gets the edge or he shakes that end and gets up field with his turbo button.  Elijah is pretty fast and he's strong and clean and well rounded, but the difference between being fast in the NFL and having elite speed is demonstrated in winning on plays with mediocre blocking like that.

 

That's why, despite all of the risk and injury concerns, I find myself still preferring Rondale over Elijah.

[method man]

@KDawghas been talking up Pete Werner quite a bit on this thread and I agree that he is underrated. He is one of those guys that gets taken rd 2 or 3 and starts for 10 years in the league because, although he doesn’t excel at one thing, he does everything well

[mhd24]

16 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Rondale Moore takes that for positive yardage.  Either he gets the edge or he shakes that end and gets up field with his turbo button.  Elijah is pretty fast and he's strong and clean and well rounded, but the difference between being fast in the NFL and having elite speed is demonstrated in winning on plays with mediocre blocking like that.

 

That's why, despite all of the risk and injury concerns, I find myself still preferring Rondale over Elijah.

 

 

All the draftniks are down on Rondale except Tony Pauline.  I have a feeling he still goes round 2.

[Going Commando]

This goes against the grain but if we're heavily factoring position need into the value of picks on day one and two, then we've got bigger needs at QB, OL, DB, and WR than at TE and LB.  We've got a one year fix at QB, that's obviously got to be addressed either this offseason or next.  We've got three good offensive linemen and one passable one--and the best one is on a franchise tag--and maybe two good prospects in the pipeline.  We've got two NFL caliber receivers in a four man position group, this is still a huge need.  And we've got three or four good DBs depending on how you feel about Collins coming back, and that's a seven man group.  We need to get a receiver and probably two DBs from this class, and we need to add OL talent into the pipeline.  If we're not getting our QB this year, then we need to come away with some kind of blue chipper in the first round instead to make missing out on the QBs worth it.  Either a stud LT or skill player.

[Anselmheifer]

18 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Rondale Moore takes that for positive yardage.  Either he gets the edge or he shakes that end and gets up field with his turbo button.  Elijah is pretty fast and he's strong and clean and well rounded, but the difference between being fast in the NFL and having elite speed is demonstrated in winning on plays with mediocre blocking like that.

 

That's why, despite all of the risk and injury concerns, I find myself still preferring Rondale over Elijah.

I agree that Rondale is elite on those routes. I think that after signing Samuel, there’s almost no chance we look at Rondale. 
 

How do you feel about Cosmi’s value at pick 19. Darrisaw has tools and size, but after reading scouts questioning his motor, effort, etc, I might lean away from him. 

[Going Commando]

12 minutes ago, method man said:

@KDawghas been talking up Pete Werner quite a bit on this thread and I agree that he is underrated. He is one of those guys that gets taken rd 2 or 3 and starts for 10 years in the league because, although he doesn’t excel at one thing, he does everything well

 

I don't think he does.  He doesn't make big plays, he's not a great tackler, and I don't think he's fiery or physical.  But he does cover pretty well and he's got good diagnostic skills and he's bouncy and balanced and has good range.  I think he's a tin man if I'm being honest, kind of a passive player who doesn't go out of his way to make plays or rally to the ball first.  I think that's evident in the lack of solo stops and big play production in his college career.  I'm not really looking for a cog in the machine type of guy for my field-general MIKE prospect that I'm willing to use a day 2 pick on.

[mhd24]

5 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

This goes against the grain but if we're heavily factoring position need into the value of picks on day one and two, then we've got bigger needs at QB, OL, DB, and WR than at TE and LB.  We've got a one year fix at QB, that's obviously got to be addressed either this offseason or next.  We've got three good offensive linemen and one passable one--and the best one is on a franchise tag--and maybe two good prospects in the pipeline.  We've got two NFL caliber receivers in a four man position group, this is still a huge need.  And we've got three or four good DBs depending on how you feel about Collins coming back, and that's a seven man group.  We need to get a receiver and probably two DBs from this class, and we need to add OL talent into the pipeline.  If we're not getting our QB this year, then we need to come away with some kind of blue chipper in the first round instead to make missing out on the QBs worth it.  Either a stud LT or skill player.

 

 

I'd put TE in a major need area as well.  We have Logan Thomas who is above 30 and is only signed for this upcoming year.  After that, we have nothing.  Still, QB beats all other need areas.  Too bad, I just think Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, and Lance (only QBs I'd take in the first) will be long gone.  LT meets major need area and positional value at 19.  Hopefully we'll be able to get Darisow, AVT, or Cosmi there.  I don't want Toney at 19 and I think Smith and Waddle will be long gone (only guys I'd take at 19 (Chase will be long gone)).  The class is too deep in that we can get a St. Brown or even maybe Rondale in the 3rd.

 

 

EDIT:  Or we could just say we are taking BPA and take Eitienne/Najee at 19 for the biggest impact.

[method man]

8 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

I'd put TE in a major need area as well.  We have Logan Thomas who is above 30 and is only signed for this upcoming year.  After that, we have nothing.  Still, QB beats all other need areas.  Too bad, I just think Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, and Lance (only QBs I'd take in the first) will be long gone.  LT meets major need area and positional value at 19.  Hopefully we'll be able to get Darisow, AVT, or Cosmi there.  I don't want Toney at 19 and I think Smith and Waddle will be long gone (only guys I'd take at 19 (Chase will be long gone)).  The class is too deep in that we can get a St. Brown or even maybe Rondale in the 3rd.

 

 

EDIT:  Or we could just say we are taking BPA and take Eitienne/Najee at 19 for the biggest impact.

AVT should not be an option. I’d be disappointed if he were the pick. The guy profiles as someone on the inside

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Draft stuff is fun.  It's also nice that nobody is "wrong" as it always shakes out differently than anyone thinks.

 

This might be the first year where I have divergent views with most of ES.  Can't wait for the draft.

 

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Anselmheifer said:

I agree that Rondale is elite on those routes. I think that after signing Samuel, there’s almost no chance we look at Rondale. 
 

How do you feel about Cosmi’s value at pick 19. Darrisaw has tools and size, but after reading scouts questioning his motor, effort, etc, I might lean away from him. 

 

I don't think redundancy is an issue when you're talking about blue-chip playmaking offensive talent with elite speed.  I actually like what having both Samuels and Moore gives your offense--interchangeability.  Your play design can be expansive and really attack match up problems when you are able to move the alignments of your best WRs around without issue because they can all run the whole tree and threaten DBs with speed or cause problems for underneath zone defenders and make big plays after the catch.  WR blocking would suffer, but I'll take that trade off to get elite speed and playmaking on the field.  And DBs are going to have to play off and carry Rondale and Curtis well down the field anyway because of the play action and RPO threat.

 

For me, the only reasons not to pick Rondale are if his injury issues just pose too big a risk for comfort, or if he hasn't gotten his speed back because of the leg injuries he's suffered.

 

As for Darrisaw, I agree that those motor concerns are worrisome.  I didn't feel like effort was a particular issue with him when I watched him.  The truth is almost all of these prospects do a lot of spectating when plays go away from them.  But they must have heard something about his habits and personality that we aren't privy to.  I still like him though.  His combo of size, flexibility, and speed are ideal.  Especially for a ZBS offense, and I think he'd translate pretty comfortably to our run game given his background in that Tech offense.  The flexibility is what really sold me on him, that indicates that he can develop into a high quality pass blocker too over time.  And PFF gave him a really high grade this season, and OL grades are one of the only things I find trustworthy in PFF's analysis.  Usually scrubs don't get super high OL grades for them.

 

I think Cosmi is definite value at 19.  I've come full circle on him.  Fell in love with him watching the LSU game in real time last season.  He was one of my favorite prospects last year and, as with Najee, was disappointed when he decided to go back to school.  Then came into this year hoping we wouldn't draft early enough to get Sewell and thus I had my eye on Cosmi as a potential favorite for us.  Then as the year goes on and I start watching all of these other new prospects and sizing them up, I kind of forget about Cosmi.  Then he freaking blows my misconceptions about him away with his athletic testing, and I go back and watch Texas offense cut ups and I'm reminded of why I liked him so much.  I think he is a very good prospect that got nitpicked for being "soft" even though he really isn't.  He takes guys to the ground all of the time and he hustles into piles and scrums.  He's probably the best cut blocker in the class too.  But there are a lot of those "congenial" reps in there where he's not going to start a fight with a guy when the play is going away from him and that made people think he's soft and just kind of made the room lukewarm on him.  But you absolutely saw that same kind of thing with Thomas and Wirfs last year.  You need to look for aggression when it counts, and that's not blocking a backside defender with no chance at making a play on the ball into his sideline.  That shouldn't be the standard for OL toughness any more.

 

Rambling aside, yes I think Cosmi would be a great pick at 19.  Excellent scheme fit.  Excellent size.  Elite athleticism.  Excellent collegiate experience with a demonstrated history of durability and reliability.  If he's there, I would probably pick him over anyone else at 19 now.  I love Etienne and Najee, but I would deviate from BPA and pass over them for Cosmi because the difference between them in ranking is not that big and the positional value he'd provide is huge.