2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Number 44]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

There will be LBer and TE2 talent available well after the second round.  We need to be hunting studs and finding value with our day 2 picks, not honing in on positions of apparent need.  Brevin and Freirmuth are the only TEs that interest me in that range of the draft, and that's only because they are dynamic and have a chance to be high quality starters.

 

Also I'm not convinced Tremble goes on day 2.  He's got almost no collegiate production and after I watched the ND offense, it felt like to me that the reason he's jumping ship to the NFL early is because that Freshman TE #87 is a lot better than him and Tremble was going to struggle to ever be a big part of their passing game.  If I were an NFL team drafting a TE with a day 2 pick, I'm not drafting him for his blocking.  I'm looking for a receiver and thus I'd be looking for someone with much more developed skills and a history of production than Tremble.  If I'm just taking a flier on a talented size/speed athlete with no production, then I'm better off with someone like McKitty in the sixth round than Tremble with a top 50 pick.

 

It's basically a two man position group, we don't have to force picks to build the roster here.

 

I wouldn't chase LBer either, as that is one of the easiest positions to fill on the roster.  If a special one like JOK or Collins matches up with BPA at our pick, then I'd take him.  A flawed but traitsy one like Davis in the second is appealing too because it feels like his ceiling is so high.  But after that, just hunt mid to late round value at the position and pass if doesn't materialize.  LBer is a three man position group realistically, given the snap counts they'll play.  The third DE or DT or Safety is more important than the third LBer today.  Unless you're getting an every down guy who can flex out to overhang roles (and not every defense will utilize this position), then you just need two stack guys and a trustworthy back up.  We're also not necessarily hurting for an overhang player because of Hudson, so I wouldn't go chasing Jabril Cox or Owusu-Koromoah either.

Good post.  Your points are contrarian, and I'm not sure I totally agree with you, but you do make a strong case.  Maybe you are right and the rest of us are more concerned about LB and TE than we should be.  I know I'd feel better going into the draft if we plugged at least one of those holes with a decent FA, though.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

 

Also I'm not convinced Tremble goes on day 2.  He's got almost no collegiate production and after I watched the ND offense, it felt like to me that the reason he's jumping ship to the NFL early is because that Freshman TE #87 is a lot better than him and Tremble was going to struggle to ever be a big part of their passing game.  If I were an NFL team drafting a TE with a day 2 pick, I'm not drafting him for his blocking.  I'm looking for a receiver and thus I'd be looking for someone with much more developed skills and a history of production than Tremble.  If I'm just taking a flier on a talented size/speed athlete with no production, then I'm better off with someone like McKitty in the sixth round than Tremble with a top 50 pick.

 

It's basically a two man position group, we don't have to force picks to build the roster here.

 

I wouldn't chase LBer either, as that is one of the easiest positions to fill on the roster.  If a special one like JOK or Collins matches up with BPA at our pick, then I'd take him.  A flawed but traitsy one like Davis in the second is appealing too because it feels like his ceiling is so high.  But after that, just hunt mid to late round value at the position and pass if doesn't materialize.  LBer is a three man position group realistically, given the snap counts they'll play.  The third DE or DT or Safety is more important than the third LBer today.  Unless you're getting an every down guy who can flex out to overhang roles (and not every defense will utilize this position), then you just need two stack guys and a trustworthy back up.  We're also not necessarily hurting for an overhang player because of Hudson, so I wouldn't go chasing Jabril Cox or Owusu-Koromoah either.

 

My thing on that is TEs seems to go earlier in the draft as expected in recent years.  Not sure why.  Could be because its usually crappy in FA.   They tend to develop more slowly that the typical spot so I gather once they do, most teams don't like to let them go.   And not as many good eggs like you got at Wr and other spots.

 

Right now if I was a betting person the first round is LT or QB.  2nd-3rd is some mix of LB, TE, WR.  Like you i am a BPA guy but I think there is a good chance BPA and need converge.   

 

I doubt Jordan and Freirmuth last to the 19th pick in the third.  I think both are worthy as late 2nd rounders.  I've not really been able to watch Freirmuth -- can't find enough footage on him.  But love his profile.  As for Tremble.  I think his pro day will be big.  What I love about him as a blocker what makes him unique is his 2nd level blocks.  I can't recall watching a college TE in quite some time who motors down the field 20-30 yards deep like him and pancakes a defender.  But as a receiver he is a total projection.  What makes him intriguing to me is at least to my eye he looks faster and more agile than the typical TE.    But I want to see his pro day measurables to see if my eyes are on the mark or whether they are deceiving me. 

 

For basically being the third TE (because of how much they depended on him as a blocker) he still caught over 200 yards.   He also had PFF's best contested catch rate among the TEs they graded.   

 

I liked (didn't love) Asaisi before last draft.  I saw Keene as a late round possibiity. Both surprisingly went in the third round -- Asaisi was maybe a mild surprise but Keene a big one.   I read recently the Pats still intend to incorporate them as backups in a heavy 12 personnel offense.   It wasn't hard to piece together that we were poised to take Adam Trautman but he was taken just before their pick.   Rivera more or less gave that away along with Kyle Smith.   If Keene is going in the third round, I think Tremble could go in the 2nd round.  But not sure, will see.

 

If they liked Trautman as purported.  Tremble to an extent is cut from the same cloth.  Tremble like Trautman blocks and does it with attitude.  Trautman the more accomplished receiver but Tremble to me looks at least to my eyes more agile-fast. 

 

[PartyPosse]

Anyone have an opinion on Monty Rice? I know  he’s a bit smallish but he’s got great football IQ.

[Skinsinparadise]

Sticking to the TE theme.

 

I just watched Hunter Long.  I like him, don't love him.   Good get in the third IMO if Jordan, Tremble, Friermuth are gone.   And I know I am higher on Jordan and Tremble than most.    The main sell for him is he's a rare vertical threat for that spot.  

 

The good

 

For a TE he can move.  He's a rare vertical threat.  His long speed looks really good for a TE.

 

He is a threat really everywhere -- short, intermediate, deep.  Seems confortable running routes.  He's not just a find the seam guy. 

 

He has good hands albeit some drops

 

He's 6"5 and with long arms as the kicker.  Monster catch radius.

 

Can play in line or detached.  Fits the Y TE description for me. 

 

Can block -- nothing special on the front but he seems to follow his assignments and is a willing blocker.

 

 

The bad

 

He's a bit lanky for that spot.  He's in the 230s.  And he plays like it too.  I think he needs 10 pounds of muscle.  He certainly has the height to do it.

 

He doesn't really play that physical.  He's not a contested catch guy or a motor through defenders YAC guy.

 

He has really long legs and even though he looks to me faster than the typical TE, his get off in short yardage is inconsistent

 

He looks like a dude who could be bullied in short yardage situations

 

As a blocker, he loses contain fast sometimes -- not a people mover

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim said they shot for one of the top TEs in the draft but missed in FA.  If it was Jonnu I somewhat agree with Reid's point below.

 

 

 

Jordan is far from a perfect prospect.  But I like TEs who can be a quick outlet for a QB in the flat and bring some YAC.  That quality is often what makes TEs a QBs best friend on third down.

 

Kyle Pitts looks like he's from another planet.   But getting past him, Jordan to my eyes moves better than any TE from this class.   He's so quick compared to TEs in and out of his breaks.  And can seperate in short space.  He can move like a WR with the ball in his hand.  He's not hot as a blocker but has improved on that front. Better run blocker than pass blocker IMO. 

 

He's more of an H back type but I think can play Y.  He's a great interview too.  Hard to guage intangibles from interviews but its the only thing we got -- he came off articulate, fun and competitive.    

 

PFF grades Yards Per Route as the best receiving indicator to success.  And I admit I don't quite understand how they calculate that but Jordan has their best score after Pitts snd by a good margin over the next one which was Freiermuth.  They rated his seperation skills highly as to their scores  He also had the highest YAC among the TE's even beating Pitts by a nice margin.  9.3 yards.  

 

Good production -- 7 TEs, 500 plus yards -- a sick for a TE 15.2 YPC.  

 

I think his pro day will be huge.  The measurables for me would be the kicker. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

TEs

 

YAC

Brevin Jordan:  9.3

Kyle Pitts:  6.0

Freiermuth: 5.7

Tremble: 3.3

Long:  3.1

Poljan:  3.0

 

Yards Per Route

Kyle Pitts:  3.26

Brevin Jordan:  2.70

Freiermuth:  2.33

Hunter Long:  1.74

Poljan: 1.43

Tremble 1.25

[CurseReversed]

oops

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

Anyone have an opinion on Monty Rice? I know  he’s a bit smallish but he’s got great football IQ.

Anyone named Monty we've got to pursue....Lets Make A Deal.

[Malapropismic Depository]

Is this year's draft going to be conducted like normal, or will it be like last year ?

Or something, somewhere in between ?

[PartyPosse]

29 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Is this year's draft going to be conducted like normal, or will it be like last year ?

Or something, somewhere in between ?

I assume like last. No way they're going to put a room of execs and kids together knowing they're probably gonna be doing some celebrating.

[DWinzit]

@stevemcqueen1, I am down with many of your thoughts. Really big on Darrisaw and Cosmi.  I do get confused some by your thoughts on our current LB and TE status. I find both to higher in priority. Wondering if you could share your thoughts on how you would handle both positions.

I do recall you suggesting at one point for LB you would take McGrone in the 4th. Would he be the only move to improve the LB's?

[Daniel.redskins]

We should go LB first and second round. **** it why not?  Zaven Collins and then Jabril Cox. LB is our only glaring hole on this team. 

[Skinsinparadise]

If I had to bet money right now, this is our mostly likely pick at 19

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

We have chased TE and FS in free agency and missed. I’ve heard nothing yet about us really trying to upgrade at LB.

 

Tells me we intend to draft LB, and early.

[DWinzit]

Just now, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

We have chased TE and FS in free agency and missed. I’ve heard nothing yet about us really trying to upgrade at LB.

 

Tells me we intend to draft LB, and early.

I think you forgot the Mayo  

[mhd24]

I think NYG is out of the WR business.  With Galloday, Slayton, Sheppard, and Engram, its not a priority at 11.  They obviously need edge, but do they go Phillips at 11?  Maybe they go CB?  I could see them taking Farley since they are a team that tends to draft Size/Speed.

[Anselmheifer]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If I had to bet money right now, this is our mostly likely pick at 19

 

 

 

Would love it. 
 

I will also say that if Parsons falls, we have exactly the right team culture to keep him in line. 
 

Also, I don’t know if we are set at corner. We don’t have a lot of depth and it isn’t like Fuller never misses time. I could still see us dipping there if there is some value in around 3 or 4.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Anselmheifer said:

Would love it. 
 

I will also say that if Parsons falls, we have exactly the right team culture to keep him in line. 
 

Also, I don’t know if we are set at corner. We don’t have a lot of depth and it isn’t like Fuller never misses time. I could still see us dipping there if there is some value in around 3 or 4.

 

With Cosmi's freakish pro day numbers wonder if he leapfrogs Darrisaw?  But i'd think one of them would be there at 19.  

3 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I think NYG is out of the WR business.  With Galloday, Slayton, Sheppard, and Engram, its not a priority at 11.  They obviously need edge, but do they go Phillips at 11?  Maybe they go CB?  I could see them taking Farley since they are a team that tends to draft Size/Speed.

 

Paye, Phillips?  Wouldn't be crazy for them to go Slater if he is there.  Gettleman is a big trenches guy. 

[Est.1974]

10 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I think you forgot the Mayo  

That did cross my mind when posting. 

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I will also say that if Parsons falls, we have exactly the right team culture to keep him in line. 

Interesting thought. I always looked at him as not fitting what Rivera has been selling as a person or for the organization. He does create a great culture. I am feeling a little Marvin Lewis here

[Anselmheifer]

Just now, DWinzit said:

Interesting thought. I always looked at him as not fitting what Rivera has been selling as a person or for the organization. He does create a great culture. I am feeling a little Marvin Lewis here

What I meant is that our coaches are strong, experienced, defensively oriented, and respected. Our defense is stacked and filled with great vocal leaders, workout warriors, and guys that lead by example. 

[DWinzit]

Just now, Anselmheifer said:

What I meant is that our coaches are strong, experienced, defensively oriented, and respected. Our defense is stacked and filled with great vocal leaders, workout warriors, and guys that lead by example. 

Oh yeah, I understand. I had looked at it from that perspective until your comment.

[DWinzit]

20 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I think NYG is out of the WR business.  With Galloday, Slayton, Sheppard, and Engram, its not a priority at 11.  They obviously need edge, but do they go Phillips at 11?  Maybe they go CB?  I could see them taking Farley since they are a team that tends to draft Size/Speed.

SIP nailed it Gettleman is primarily a big trench guy although he did go Barkley and Jones with his first two Giants first rounders, following them up with a multitude of big uglies. I would think he would go at OL or edge

[The Rook]

The more I look at the OT LB selections available from 19 through 32, I would not be opposed to selecting one of them at 19 (probably OT) and then trying to move back down by offering #51 and 2022 2nd round, just like the Montez Sweat trade. (Especially if Collins was still available around #25-#27).  I think Jax or Balt may make that trade,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[mhd24]

44 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

SIP nailed it Gettleman is primarily a big trench guy although he did go Barkley and Jones with his first two Giants first rounders, following them up with a multitude of big uglies. I would think he would go at OL or edge

I don’t know if they go tackle.  They have Thomas, and redid Solders contact.  Do they take AVT to play as guard?  Do they take Slater (if he’s there) and play him at guard?  Do they gamble on Parsons?