joeken24

Ooooweee Dunbar wants to be traded!

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45 minutes ago, Burgold said:

The last time we did that was Lavernius Coles for Santana Moss.

 

Coles was coming off a 100 yard season, but was upset and didn't want to be here anymore. Gibbs accommodated him. Moss had a pretty great career here after almost busting out with the Jets.

 

I'd rather Dunbar work out. He's such a cool Cinderella story, but if he wants out and his ego has gotten out of control... he's not irreplaceable. We lost 13 games with him last year. That's not on him, but it also suggests he isn't so great that the team needs to bend to his will.

 

This is twice you've brought up Dunbar's ego in this thread. I think it's unfair to to use that label. @stevemcqueen1 laid out my thoughts well above, but i'll expand a bit.


Put yourself in his (or his agent's) shoes.  Your stock is higher now around the league as it may ever be, with PFF ranking you as a top 5 corner, and film guys breaking down your season with high praise across the board. You signed a team friendly extension for 3 years because you were making UDFA money, but are now massively outperforming that contract (around $4 million this year, compare that to what Norman makes).

 

You have no guarantees remaining, have been intermittently hurt the last few seasons, and continually see players get hurt during the off-season. This is his ONLY chance to snag the generational wealth these guys are all seeking. That should be his primary motive, and anyone suggesting otherwise is deluded from reality. This is smaller scale version of what we all discussed with Cousins and his franchise tags vs. signing him to an extension earlier.

 

Dunbar has an obligation to his family, and his agent to his client, to maximize their earnings. This isn't greed. To not seek this would be malpractice.

 

All that said, I'd of course like this to of been taken care of in house. But there's a chance an extension was never going to happen, and if they do it now rather than after Rivera has made plans to count on him, there's a better chance he gets that new deal, traded, or released.

 

I want the team to do what's in their best interest, but in no way is this a byproduct of Quintin Dunbar's ego reaching Richard Sherman levels. This is a player and an agent doing the right thing with the most leverage they are likely to ever have. 

 

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5 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

It's not about balking... if the reports are true that Dunbar just wants out, then you have no choice (no idea if its true or just money). Sign Bradberry and go in the draft looking for help at DB. Hope that Moreau and Moreland, etc have taken a leap.... 

 

It's always about money.  Money is what justifies risk for players and teams.  There is no way we couldn't address Dunbar's concerns by giving him a new contract if we want to.  And this year's WR class is basically an order of magnitude stronger than the DB class.  We will much have much better luck addressing the WR position group through the draft than we would for DB.  We already need multiple new DBs as is.

 

We can't go into a year with so little quality in the secondary as having Bradberry, Moreland, and Moreau be our top there corners.  That's just not good enough to compete with.  A good team would not put themselves into a position where they're counting on Moreau and Moreland to be competitive.  Maybe you can hope for a vintage year from Norman, but it sure looked like he was washed up last year.  The smart money here is to cut Norman, give Dunbar a new deal, and spend some money in FA to get more DBs instead of trying to tread water with lesser players.

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12 minutes ago, LLandryistheshiz said:

I want the team to do what's in their best interest, but in no way is this a byproduct of Quintin Dunbar's ego reaching Richard Sherman levels. This is a player and an agent doing the right thing with the most leverage they are likely to ever have.  

 

Well said, I agree with your post.  And I'd like to highlight this part in particular.  This is a business and the team used their superior leverage to get him to play for peanuts the past two seasons.  And just as a fan of the game, it would be really sad if Dunbar got to be this good as a player, only to get hurt before getting a payday when there have been a lot of guys worse than him getting big paydays through luck in timing.  I understand and sympathize with his concerns and don't think he's being unreasonable.

 

From the team's perspective, I would recognize that he's earned a pay-day and that this could be an opportunity for me to build some trust and goodwill with the roster, to reward merit, and give a deserving player some security and a raise.  It's not really in my long term interest for the locker room to see me play hardball with Dunbar just to send a message, only to end up paying a much worse player the money that would have been better off going to Dunbar anyway.  I want my guys to feel like if they outplay their deals and earn big second and third contracts, that they can get their money here and make a home in the organization.

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16 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

From the team's perspective, I would recognize that he's earned a pay-day and that this could be an opportunity for me to build some trust and goodwill with the roster, to reward merit, and give a deserving player some security and a raise.  It's not really in my long term interest for the locker room to see me play hardball with Dunbar just to send a message, only to end up paying a much worse player the money that would have been better off going to Dunbar anyway.  I want my guys to feel like if they outplay their deals and earn big second and third contracts, that they can get their money here and make a home in the organization.

 

 

I really feel both sides of this and think its much ado about nothing. It'd be something if OTAs started tomorrow and this came out, or if we were already in the camp and this happened. But we are in Day 1 of Ron's new plan, word is he has had a positive conversation with Trent (another really good player who has had some injury concerns), so I'm guessing that things are going to get worked out but just that Dunbar wasn't the top of the list. 

 

My thoughts are that they know that he's a hard worker, recognize the struggle he went through changing positions, and then becoming a really good corner. I don't think the question is whether he's top 5 or not, just whether he's worth building around. And I think they will look at the tape and sign him back. Dunbar for what its worth is probably a little frustrated because he likely had some positive words with Allen and Schaffer and now its new people working contracts, and new coaches who don't know him. But I don't think coaches will so easily give up young talent who we have under contract already. 

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The tweet itself that started this thread points to ego and entitlement to me. "They don't know me." Is a very ego laden statement.

 

I get what you are saying to a degree, but this is where sports' reality and common reality diverge. You say he needs to get a big payday and it's possible he could get a bigger payday on an open market today, but his current contract does make him a multimillionaire, so it's not like he's hurting.

 

He got a signing bonus of a million dollars and a three year contract worth five million. So, I get that makes him a "poor" pro athlete, but it's not like he was screwed and will be scrambling for money when his NFL career ends... even if it ended today.

 

I think it's not a bad idea for him to prove himself to his new coaches... hell, at least go to the voluntary offseason stuff and show how good you are! Immediately saying you are going to hold out and are demanding a trade reeks to me of entitlement and ego.

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thanks @joeken24

 

i was reading on this yesterday and looked for a thread to put an article in but there was nada even going back 7 pages and i didn't want to start one

 

i'm hoping we decide to pay dunbar enough to keep him for pretty much the reasons others have given and he's a quality locker room guy

 

 

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2 hours ago, justice98 said:

He's under contract, there's been a new regime for a little over a month, and he's upset that they havent run to talk about an extension in Jan and Feb?  

 

That's only a part of it. Its based more on not wanting to be injured in OTAs and saying that if they're not going to re-sign him, then why not cut or trade him to a team where they will? 

 

We don't know how far along his new contract was with Bruce and the old regime, but suppose they had agreed on a number and were close on guarantees and then his agent shows that offer to Ron and Ron hasn't gotten back to him. Its probably something frustrating because you don't know where you stand. And the reports are that he'll be in training camp but not the voluntary stuff where he's taking all the risk himself that they'll still sign him if he gets injured. 

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If Dunbar did this last year, then I can understand the contention with his choice, but having a productive player on his last year of his deal with no dialogue on a new deal forces the player to leverage his situation. Not all guys can do this, the player must do his part and be good to great. 
 

It’s up to the team to be proactive decide if he’s in the plans for the next 3 year window or you let him play out his final year at a bargain rate and say goodbye, but deal with consequences of having a disgruntled player, then it comes down to the dude and what kind of professional he is. 

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1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

He massively outplayed his previous contract and he's looking at a final season of chump change money with no guarantees.  He's never gotten a big payday either.  He'll yeah he should be worrying about his money.

 

He deserves a new deal.  We need to decide this off-season whether we'll give it to him.  None of this procrastination bull**** that screwed us with Kirk.  Either negotiate a new deal before the season, or trade him.

 

In full agreement. The catch is gonna be the dollar figure he's after. I'm not a fan of paying big money to corners.

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I am starting to believe that River boat Ron does not believe in investing much cbs.I don't recall Carolina drafting a 1st round cb or signing a cb to a big money deal.So if this is the case Dunbar days are numbered.

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I am surprised more of our players don't ask to be traded.  Even with RR in the house our stadium will remain overrun a few more years at minimum.

Edited by RandyHolt
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9 minutes ago, Burgold said:

The tweet itself that started this thread points to ego and entitlement to me. "They don't know me." Is a very ego laden statement.

 

I get what you are saying to a degree, but this is where sports' reality and common reality diverge. You say he needs to get a big payday and it's possible he could get a bigger payday on an open market today, but his current contract does make him a multimillionaire, so it's not like he's hurting.

 

He got a signing bonus of a million dollars and a three year contract worth five million. So, I get that makes him a "poor" pro athlete, but it's not like he was screwed and will be scrambling for money when his NFL career ends... even if it ended today.

 

I think it's not a bad idea for him to prove himself to his new coaches... hell, at least go to the voluntary offseason stuff and show how good you are! Immediately saying you are going to hold out and are demanding a trade reeks to me of entitlement and ego.

 

He may not be hurting now. But he's only earned 9.5 million over his 5 years in the league. Take out taxes, agent fees, living expenses, and the common expectation that an athlete's money will help pay for his parents, siblings, or other family's expenses in one way or another, and you can't expect that amount to last into retirement. 

 

This is why having no guaranteed money is a massive risk for him right now. People like us have a 1 in a trillion chance to win the lottery. After this last season, he just lowered his odds to 50-50. He can secure his family for years to come by using some leverage.

 

And again, the sports workplace is immensely different from what you or I experience in a typical workplace. Why the hell should Quinton Dunbar feel the need to prove himself? he just did. He's rated a top 5 corner right now, based on film. What is the underwear olympics of the off-season going to tell Ron Rivera about his ability that he can't turn on the tape and look at? 

 

Put yourself in his situation. You might come across classier in the delivery, but I anticipate you'd have the exact same agenda Dunbar has right now.

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4 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Or double dip on CB in the draft. With Dunbar I thought it would be prudent to draft a guy in R5. If you also use Dunbar trade asset on a CB let Ron hit it 2x in the draft at 1x in FA. 


yeah I was alluding to the fact Rivera has a history of that.

 

2018 draft was CB in the 2nd and 3rd

2016 draft was CB in the 2nd 3rd and 5th

 

does make you wonder if that is his preference as opposed to paying big contract money out, which would take us full circle back to Bradberry and whether Rivera really would want to pay him #1 money.

 

In this instance, I think he likely does.

 

as for Dunbar, I’d go mid tier contract with limited guaranteed money. That’s not going to wash tho, so it’s trade for a mid round pick/player by the looks of it.

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I don't want to keep getting big money tied into players who aren't on the field. Dunny is good, not great. 

 

If you're pulling this kind of ****, maybe this isn't the place for you. Get a pick.

 

Our secondary has been hot garbage for a decade. Collins will be great in the JDR scheme, dump the rest and finally build a new secondary.

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Get rid of him, nothing personal. Find some tough-nosed DBs in the draft that won't get consistently get burned and let the front seven do it's thing to where we don't need elite corners but a capable committee. That would save us Dunbar's contract and sends a good message not to act emo within your contract desires

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Here's my take, I expect Rivera to handle this professionally, respectfully and in a way that we don't see QD talking **** with a new team.

 

This can actually be a good thing, an opportunity for Ron to set a tone, to show the lockerroom that even if situations do arise they don't have to pull a shiv out of their back like Trent got.

 

For whatever reasons, if Dunbar chooses not to be a part of what's being built here, then fine. This is his career, it has an expiration date, I am not in the least offended by him wanting to act in his own best interests. 

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1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

I am surprised more of players don't ask to be traded.  Even with RR in the house our stadium will remain overrun a few more years at minimum.

 

If you've got some contract security with a team, you don't want to give that up unless you absolutely have  to.  Changing teams is very hard on players.  You jeopardize your career when you do it, so it's worth it to stay with even bad franchises if the money is  good enough.

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1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

If you've got some contract security with a team, you don't want to give that up unless you absolutely have  to.  Changing teams is very hard on players.  You jeopardize your career when you do it, so it's worth it to stay with even bad franchises if the money is  good enough.

 

Yep, all true. But DC has not been good to players it seems. Kirk bolted. Our team captain and best player, went on strike. Those are 2 big high profile events all saw and presume helps other high skill guys expecting a big payday to feel emboldened.  

 

Some players will be willing to bet they can demand what they want; a new contract or to be traded to somewhere with greener pastures.  Money isn't everything, to all. Most, Shirley. Some may want less money, but it fully guaranteed.  But those pastures won't always be greener, Dunny is not without risk here. I hope he gets a "not a team guy" label and it crushes his next contract.

 

He thinks its his time to strike. He is too injury prone IMHO to invest heavily in so lets trade him if he is going to be clamoring for top dollar or threatening to sit.  It may be his money grubbing lawyer convincing him what to do. I feel like attorney's advisors and agents often give players bad advice.

 

I wish RR would just cut him and start laying down the law.  Anyone that doesn't want to be here should be shown the door, sooner than later. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by RandyHolt
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Mixed feelings. We don't know what , if any, communication has occurred between Dunny and the team. But to go public first is bush league. Temper tantrum-esq. But if that is the case, here's what I would suggest. Give Dunnny a few fair options to choose from.

Option A: 3 year extension at $33m. with a $6m signing bonus and $18m guaranteed (Welcome Home option)

Option B: Find a team that is willing to give you a better extension AND also willing to give us a 2nd rd pick (Bye Felicia option)

Option C. : Play out your final year of your contract and hope you stay healthy  (Good Luck option)

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Dunny struts around like he's someone, getting to be around the team he went from a fringe roster, hard working guy to a guy who's too cool for school.   And the timing here is kinda dumb, too.  I mean, he was bugging the previous regime for a new contract, that's fine.  But they aren't here anymore.  So now we've got a new coach but no new GM, probably won't have one until after the draft.  And he thinks for some reason that his salary demands/contract issues are a priority?  

 

Dude gets hurt all the time.  If he played 15 or 16 games a year, fine but he's not on the field nearly enough.  

 

New regime.  No need for whiners.  

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Absolutely do not trade him for a 3rd or 4th. Make him play out his contract year, and if it's half of what we expect the team will be better off, and you get a 3rd round comp pick if smart. Only worth a trade if you get a 2nd or better

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Trade him ASAP! He should have talked to the team about his issues privately. Then maybe the team could have worked something out. But making this nonsense public doesn't help anyone. Trade him for whatever we can get. 

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7 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Absolutely do not trade him for a 3rd or 4th. Make him play out his contract year, and if it's half of what we expect the team will be better off, and you get a 3rd round comp pick if smart. Only worth a trade if you get a 2nd or better

 

Not following this logic - serious question - 

 

You propose to keep someone here that has already said they would stay away from OTAs and TC. Then play them and when (not really IF, when) they play like crap you believe that will lead to someone signing him for enough money against whatever players we sign to be assured of a 3rd comp pick - which BTW is really a 4th rd pick if we are being honest since they start at the end of the 4rd. 

 

Why keep a guy here that does not want to be here - you let him be a cancer in your locker room. If you think making him play out his contract is going to make him play hard - i guess you could be right. But I doubt it. Not to mention his big problem is injury - your plan would require he stay healthy, something that has not happened so far in his career. 

 

He is a decent player - probably the best CB when healthy - but he is never healthy all 16 and being the CB on this team is not really a very high bar. Full disclosure I have very little faith in PFF. SO maybe he is the ****. I just do not see him top 5 in the league - Maybe to 15. 

 

If you can get a 3rd right now, you take it and run. I am afraid you would be lucky to get a 4th as a comp pick - which is really closer to mid 5th. 

 

Fundamentally I am not in favor of keeping guys that don't want to be around. Ron needs to set the tone - you want out, GTFO and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out! 

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1 hour ago, Peregrine said:

Absolutely do not trade him for a 3rd or 4th. Make him play out his contract year, and if it's half of what we expect the team will be better off, and you get a 3rd round comp pick if smart. Only worth a trade if you get a 2nd or better

 

In the 2022 draft though. You're 1 year removed from the comp when you lose the player and we are a year away from losing the player on the current deal. The equivalent of the 2022 3rd round comp pick would be a 5th rounder in 2020. Also, not to mention you would not get that comp pick if you chose to sign a big FA acquisition next year. Comp picks are only guaranteed if you have talent leaving greater than what you are bringing in off the market.

 

We aren't getting a 3rd round comp pick for Preston Smith because we signed Landon Collins. We are getting a 4th round comp pick because of Crowder.

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins

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