The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Conn]

2 hours ago, skinsfan93 said:

If Bruce was still in charge I would agree but I hope Ron has better judgement. Cooper is good but he has no heart. 

 

This is a weird comment all the way around. 

 

Bruce would almost never have signed a tier 1 guy like Cooper early in FA for big money. He preferred multiple mid tier guys at above-mid tier prices. Norman and Desean only ended up here bc of the weird timing of their releases. Collins is the singular exception to this and apparently that was a Snyder special.

 

And Cooper has had injury issues but I'd never question his heart.

[skinsfan93]

10 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

This is a weird comment all the way around. 

 

Bruce would almost never have signed a tier 1 guy like Cooper early in FA for big money. He preferred multiple mid tier guys at above-mid tier prices. Norman and Desean only ended up here bc of the weird timing of their releases. Collins is the singular exception to this and apparently that was a Snyder special.

 

And Cooper has had injury issues but I'd never question his heart.

When Bruce had his eye on a player at a position of need, they went and got him. 
 

As far as Cooper, take a look at critical games the Cowboys had last year. He was missing in a lot of those drives. Maybe you can say Garrett was the issue but I tend to think it was on Cooper. The guy was a top five pick, has produced results on the field and yet will be heading to his 3rd team in 5 years. Why?

[Fresh8686]

 

[Koolblue13]

14 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

When Bruce had his eye on a player at a position of need, they went and got him. 

Like who?

[Fresh8686]

 

[NYSkins21]

Quick question. I know it's been talked about before but curious to see if anything has changed in regards to bringing in Antonio Brown now that we have FO, culture and coaching stability with Ron Rivera?

 

A lot has changed since we last talked about kicking the tires with AB. On both sides. He could be had relatively cheap and with a new sense of gratitude.

 

I was an infatic "NO" last regime but I'm warming up to the idea. Thoughts?

[crabbypatty]

16 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Yep. Trent was making $14 million on his current deal and I wouldn’t be shocked if he signed a 3 year extension (so including his 2020 money of $14m) that brought the 3 year average to $17-18 million per year. So a 3 and 52 type deal. Or 2 and 38 beyond this year. 
 

Lock up Scherff and Flowers and I feel a little better about any trading of Trent. But I think you keep what y got and you extend him. If you can’t come together on a number that makes sense then I guess you try and get at least a 2 for him. If not a 2+3 or a late 1. Then draft an OT in a deep class early and hope the rest of the line is good enough to support a rookie LT.  Yeesh. 
 

PS extending 3/50 or so is probably the best bet 

**** that and screw that guy. You want to give him a 4 mil per year raise after sitting out a year, with guaranteed money?

Trade the guy, let him be someone else's headache. You know he's going to get injured after getting that $$, and we're gonna be in the same boat we're in now.

 

Let him be someone else's headache. Trade him and pay a rookie for 4 or 5 years.

24 minutes ago, NYSkins21 said:

Quick question. I know it's been talked about before but curious to see if anything has changed in regards to bringing in Antonio Brown now that we have FO, culture and coaching stability with Ron Rivera?

 

A lot has changed since we last talked about kicking the tires with AB. On both sides. He could be had relatively cheap and with a new sense of gratitude.

 

I was an infatic "NO" last regime but I'm warming up to the idea. Thoughts?

not just no, but HELL no. Did you see the video of him with the cops on his front lawn in Fla? The dude is a certifiable nutjob.

If you haven't seen it, look it up.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 hours ago, RWJ said:

Exactly, SIP.  I would think that TW is doing the smart thing too to see how much some of these guys are going to get paid to set the market for him to get an increase.  If so, I hope we trade him and get a couple 2nd round picks or a 1st and change.  D.J. is much years younger and is just starting to come into his own.  TW although still good is on the wrong side of 30 and hasn't played a full season in awhile. 

 

  I am mixed on Trent.  On one hand I'd trade him if I can get what you mention, a couple of 2nds or a first and change.    But if they get less than that, I'd try to work things out.  I agree with Kiper's point below I am more bullish on this roster than most -- with Haskins clearly being the wild card. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

14 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

 

Bruce would almost never have signed a tier 1 guy like Cooper early in FA for big money. He preferred multiple mid tier guys at above-mid tier prices. Norman and Desean only ended up here bc of the weird timing of their releases. Collins is the singular exception to this and apparently that was a Snyder special.

 

Agree.  If Bruce was in charge, our shopping list would be likely something like this:

 

Tyler Eifert, Cody Latimer, JJ Wilcox.  Brandon Scherff and Flowers would be gone but Bostic resigned. 

 

As Sheehan liked to joke Bruce was a master of getting average to below average players at bargain prices.  With an occasional exception and I'd bet those occasions were egged on by Dan, Jay or Shanny. 

[skinny21]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

  I am mixed on Trent.  On one hand I'd trade him if I can get what you mention, a couple of 2nds or a first and change.    But if they get less than that, I'd try to work things out.  I agree with Kiper's point below I am more bullish on this roster than most -- with Haskins clearly being the wild card. 

 

 

I might take a 2nd and 3rd, particularly if we still have a chance at a decent option in FA.  Yes, the draft has some good options, but I’m not sure I want us to be pigeonholed into going for a tackle in Rd 2 (though if we did anyway, we now have a backup plan/heir for Moses and/or the FA).  
I kind of agree with Kiper, but I’d need to see some answers on the back 7 of our D first.  Either way though, I think we should improve fairly significantly... my one caveat being if we can’t sort out the oline.   

[PartyPosse]

The problem with Trent right now is age (obviously). If we know we can get 3-4 of solid play from him then I'd prefer to keep him. If AT most we're getting 2 years of above average play then i'd rather see what we can get for him while he's still got value. If we bring him back instead of trading him, extend him and then watch him play average and/or have more, more detrimental injury concerns then it'll look bad. Hindsight is 20/20.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, skinny21 said:

I might take a 2nd and 3rd, particularly if we still have a chance at a decent option in FA.  Yes, the draft has some good options, but I’m not sure I want us to be pigeonholed into going for a tackle in Rd 2 (though if we did anyway, we now have a backup plan/heir for Moses and/or the FA).  
I kind of agree with Kiper, but I’d need to see some answers on the back 7 of our D first.  Either way though, I think we should improve fairly significantly... my one caveat being if we can’t sort out the oline.   

 

Not much at LT in FA. Castonzo who is 32 and some say still might retire.   I guess they can talk Penn into returning.  The draft looks good for that spot but not sure about guys that make it to the 2nd round - Austin Jackson, Prince Tega, etc. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not much at LT in FA. Castonzo who is 32 and some say still might retire.   I guess they can talk Penn into returning.  The draft looks good for that spot but not sure about guys that make it to the 2nd round - Austin Jackson, Prince Tega, etc. 

And we currently don't have a 2nd round pick.  Though, I guess we would if we moved on from Trent.

 

My gut tells me that Trent is extended for 3 years at $16/year, with the next 2 years guaranteed.  I think the real question is Scherff.  I think he's franchised, however I wouldn't be shocked if he's franchised and traded.  I have no idea what the new coaching staff thinks of Wes Martin, but I kindof think OG and C, you don't have to pay all-pro level contracts to get really good production.  And Martin seemed to be pretty good in limited action, and should develop more between year 1 and 2.   And you could take that $15m/year you would pay Scherff and go elsewhere, either DB, Safety, WR, LB.

 

Maybe I'm wrong (this happens often), but I would be comfortable with Trent, Flowers, Rouiller, Martin, Moses on the OL and draft a guy as a backup swing tackle (I think Christian Jr. might just be a bust).  That's a pretty good group, not great, but not completely suck.  Though whoever the new OL coach is needs to beat Moses over the head with a tea pot every time he false starts.  

 

I don't understand how they haven't re-signed Flowers yet.  That was one of the few gem signings of the last regime which nobody thought was going to work out, but did. Put him next to Trent, and that probably makes him better as well.  

 

The positions which worry me most (in order) are: DB, Safety, TE, LB., WR.   Mostly because they don't have players who can start at DB, Safety and TE. Who knows what's going to happen with Dunny, and they have nobody across from him.  FS is wide open.  LB is a mish-mash.  WR hey have some options.  It's not ideal, but they have 2 good ones (McLaurin and Sims), but need a 3rd.

 

If they trade Trent, I thin they should be targeting trading him for enough to get his replacement.  So if it's 2 #2s, that's fine, but then they should be willing to package those to move up and get a LT in the first if they need to.  I kindof look at Trent as a closed circle.  Either he's here, or whatever you get back for him has to be used to draft his replacement.  

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not much at LT in FA. Castonzo who is 32 and some say still might retire.   I guess they can talk Penn into returning.  The draft looks good for that spot but not sure about guys that make it to the 2nd round - Austin Jackson, Prince Tega, etc. 

Yeah, OT makes me a little nervous in the draft. Prince and Austin Jackson are guys that could go early 2nd but I am not sure if they're pencil-in LTs from day 1. Josh Jones is probably the last of the 5 OTs who are R1 quality and I don't think he comes close to us in the 2nd if we recoup picks there.

 

I ran a couple mocks with #23 from the Patriots. One version had all 5 (Wills, Thomas, Wirfs, Becton, Jones) were all gone. In another version, Becton and Jones were there, and I took Becton. New England may be willing to do some different things to make a couple more passes at the SB if Brady is back. Going after COoper/Green at WR is one thing I expect them to do, and bolstering the Ol is another. Trent at LT would be huge for them for the next 2-3 years IMO.

 

I feel better about bringing back Trent and trying for a 4th or 5th round OT that falls with upside to plug into RT longterm, and address LT down the line when Trent is near the end of a new extension.

 

Of course, if we opt to trade off #2 then I guess that changes the discussion big time. I would consider the top OT at pick 5 or 18 if we went that route to plug into RT now, and LT long-term.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

My gut tells me that Trent is extended for 3 years at $16/year, with the next 2 years guaranteed.  I think the real question is Scherff.  I think he's franchised, however I wouldn't be shocked if he's franchised and traded.  I have no idea what the new coaching staff thinks of Wes Martin, but I kindof think OG and C, you don't have to pay all-pro level contracts to get really good production. 

 

Somewhat draft-thread related but fits this context well. IOL and OL in general take a year or two to really get their feet wet. The exception being college OT that transition to OG and are drafted in Rounds 1-2 tend to adapt the quickest to the NFL.

 

We drafted Wes Martin in the 4th and Ross Pierschbacher in the 5th last year. Those are pretty decent investments on the IOL. I have no problem letting Martin start at LG, but I would prefer to keep the stud RG Scherff as long as possible. I think Martin is a great backup G to fill in for injuries and not miss much of a beat, but if the team moves on from one of the OG we do have a cheap guy to slide right in.

 

at OC, Roullier is the guy but it is his last year on the deal, and I would not rule out Piershbacher beating him out this year, or sliding in to take over in 2021.

 

Martin and Pierscbacher are 2 guys that I would pencil in as people the old (and hopeuflly new) regime forecasted out as starters in 2021 and beyond. Just something to keep in mind when thinking about the OL going into FA and the draft.

[PartyPosse]

In terms of Austin Jackson, Wanogho, Niang and Isaiah Wilson, are any of them viable options at LT?

[Skinsinparadise]

Coverage LB type

 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

In terms of Austin Jackson, Wanogho, Niang and Isaiah Wilson, are any of them viable options at LT?

 

Not sure, I haven't watched any of them yet. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Somewhat draft-thread related but fits this context well. IOL and OL in general take a year or two to really get their feet wet. The exception being college OT that transition to OG and are drafted in Rounds 1-2 tend to adapt the quickest to the NFL.

 

We drafted Wes Martin in the 4th and Ross Pierschbacher in the 5th last year. Those are pretty decent investments on the IOL. I have no problem letting Martin start at LG, but I would prefer to keep the stud RG Scherff as long as possible. I think Martin is a great backup G to fill in for injuries and not miss much of a beat, but if the team moves on from one of the OG we do have a cheap guy to slide right in.

 

at OC, Roullier is the guy but it is his last year on the deal, and I would not rule out Piershbacher beating him out this year, or sliding in to take over in 2021.

 

Martin and Pierscbacher are 2 guys that I would pencil in as people the old (and hopeuflly new) regime forecasted out as starters in 2021 and beyond. Just something to keep in mind when thinking about the OL going into FA and the draft.

I don't disagree.  But I REALLY think you keep Flowers at LG, and let Martin play RG, which is where he was last year.  Piershbacher can compete for center, no problem.  And if he takes over next year, that's gravy.  

 

As you said, both Piershbacher and Martin are going into year 2.  So they both should improve.  

 

The reason I would prefer to keep Trent and let Scherff walk has nothing to do with Scherff.  He's a great player, and having him is helpful. However, we have NOTHING behind Trent at all, so if he goes the way of the dodo, then you're completely stuck at LT, which is also the most important position on the OL.  In fact, I'd say without Trent, you have 1 serviceable tackle on the roster with Moses.  However, Moses isn't that good, and you don't have a backup, because Christian is looking like he's on the bust train right out of the league.  So your OT situation is REALLY dire if Trent walks away.  However, it immediately becomes better than ok if he returns. Instead of findings a starting LT and a backup swing tackle, you just have to find the backup, and hope Moses plays better.  I would ABSOLUTELY draft Moses' replacement this year.  

 

Whereas if you let Scherff go, (assuming you re-sign Flowers, which I just see as a no-brainer) then you have options at guard.  

 

So if you have to pick between the two, I pick Trent for those reasons.  If you sign both, that's a hell of a lot of money wrapped up in your OL.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Master Blaster]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

Experience in Tampa 2 scheme. 
 

30 now though and coming off injury. 
 

LB needs to be a priority this offseason but not sure he is the one. 

[Tedskins 21]

What is the likeliness Scherff moves back to Tackle?  Moses is horrible and Brandon played some tackle at Iowa.  Maybe he and Wes can hold down the right side?  

[Anselmheifer]

 

I'm not sure what I think of him. He's certainly not a stimulating watch. Has size/length, and hands. I think he looks plodding in his movements. He's not going to get a lot of separation in man coverage. While he's been productive in Atlanta with 49, 71 and 75 catches in the last 3 years, he's been playing with a very good QB and with Calvin Ridley and Julio Jones. I think the best thing that can be said about him might be that he is reliable. He's missed 5 games in 4 years. 

I'm not sure how much Hooper moves the needle. I honestly might rather spend 20 million on Amari Cooper than 10 million on Austin Hooper. 

[Conn]

14 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I'm not sure what I think of him. He's certainly not a stimulating watch. Has size/length, and hands. I think he looks plodding in his movements. He's not going to get a lot of separation in man coverage. While he's been productive in Atlanta with 49, 71 and 75 catches in the last 3 years, he's been playing with a very good QB and with Calvin Ridley and Julio Jones. I think the best thing that can be said about him might be that he is reliable. He's missed 5 games in 4 years. 

I'm not sure how much Hooper moves the needle. I honestly might rather spend 20 million on Amari Cooper than 10 million on Austin Hooper. 

 

I agree. We need TE help, yes. We need blue chip gamebreakers more, and Hooper feels low upside for how much he'll cost. Olsen as a bridge along with a mid rounder is way more appealing.

 

Still pissed we didn't take Moreau in the 4th last year. 

[Tedskins 21]

Hooper reminds me of Witten as far as his speed...