The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby

[Est.1974]

42 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I assume Reed is a goner. And when that occurs we will have $60 million in cap space. But more importantly our 2021 cap space once we move on from Alex Smith would be around $132 million right now in 2021 and $158 in 2022 and $196 million in 2023. 

That 2022 number - is probably because we have less than 20 players in total under contract at that stage. 
 

That 2023 number, I mean other than Landon Collins and maybe Tress Way, who else is under contract then?

 

I appreciate your input but those numbers are meaningless. I wouldn’t look much past this season for a cap perspective with a bit of overspill into 2021 for dead cap impacts.

16 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Who’s better?  That really should be the question.  Bruce loved to get second tier players on 3rd tier contracts.

 

The Skins have cap room.  Go get better players.  Win more games.  
 

It’s amazing how simple the formula is. 

Yeah, the 2021 and 2022 cap numbers are aided because I don’t think there’s even a full team’s worth of contracts on the books. 
 

And the lack of big money QB.

Agreed. I’d take Anderson but if cap wasn’t up for discussion, AJ Green would top my list. Ideal on a contract for 2/3 years until we have to pay Terry Mc.

 

Also agree re cap space.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

The 2022 and 2023 numbers absolutely are barren for those reasons and the cap will reduces for every player we sign and/or draft. Just saying we have very little committed to this roster beyond rookie contracts beyond this year. Meaning you can afford to absorb those contracts long term without worrying about the implications. 

Reed, Moses and Smith are the only ones counting substantially in 2021 and I expect they’ll be gone well

before 2021 season begins. 
 

Beyond 2021 Ionidis is really the only non rookie cap number over $5 million. Moses too but assume he won’t be around past 2020 on his current deal 

[Voice_of_Reason]

13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I guess my point on WR is more than I don’t think Anderson is that good. He strikes me as a glorified Richardson type of signing and isn’t worth the cap. I’d rather draft a 3rd round rookie to add to our outstanding youth and spend $10 million on Austin Hooper. And divert that cap $$ to make our OL and secondary outstanding. 
 

I could be convinced of going after Amari Cooper. But not sure he’s worth the $20 million per year. I know we won’t find another McLaurin in the draft but no reason we can’t find a solid WR2 long term. And a funchess would be a solid bridge to let that rookie get up to speed 

I don’t disagree. Additionally, If he’s healthy, I could see AJ Green on a 3 year-is deal.  I have done some reading and it seems his injury last year turned from an actual injury to Bengal-itis when he could return but they were so bad so he didn’t really want to. AND that doesn’t preclude you from drafting a guy in the third or 4th.  

 

The one thing to keep in mind about all of the WRs though is if Brady goes back to NE, they’re going to spend money on WR because it’s clear Tom was throwing to guys who just were t good enough. And I think they might do a lot of cap magic to fit a whole lot of contracts in next year and just defer the cost until Brady retires in 2 or 3 years. So plan for cap he’ll in 2022/2023, but not really care about it because you have 2 more years of Brady.  
 

So if Cooper is the best WR on the market, I could see the Pats making him a Godfather offer.  I could see them signing multiple weapons in fact. 

13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Moses too but assume he won’t be around past 2020 on his current deal 

I won’t know what to do with myself in the game day threads if I can’t keep track of unproductive first down Runs and Moses false start penalties.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@Voice_of_Reason I would be down to add Green for a 2-3 year deal. Draft another rookie as well. But I’d rather have Green than Anderson and Greens injury last year was purely him not wanting to come back and be exposed on a bad team. He’s older but you’re not asking him to be his old elite self. You’re asking for 70-1000-8 numbers. 
 

I do agree he’s likely to land in NE with Brady if he stays there. 

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don’t disagree. Additionally, If he’s healthy, I could see AJ Green on a 3 year-is deal.  I have done some reading and it seems his injury last year turned from an actual injury to Bengal-itis when he could return but they were so bad so he didn’t really want to. AND that doesn’t preclude you from drafting a guy in the third or 4th.  

 

The one thing to keep in mind about all of the WRs though is if Brady goes back to NE, they’re going to spend money on WR because it’s clear Tom was throwing to guys who just were t good enough. And I think they might do a lot of cap magic to fit a whole lot of contracts in next year and just defer the cost until Brady retires in 2 or 3 years. So plan for cap he’ll in 2022/2023, but not really care about it because you have 2 more years of Brady.  
 

 

I wouldn't mind AJ Green if healthy, but he's clearly been falling off. In 2017, his last healthy year, he had 75 catches for 1078 yards, good for 14.4ypc, and 8 TD's. In 2018, he played in only 9 games and had 46 catches for 694 yards, good for 15.1ypc and 6 TD's. Obviously he didn't play at all last year. Maybe it IS Bengalitis. Who would want to play injured for that team, with nothing on the line? 

Green will only be 32 when the season starts, which isn't ancient for a receiver. He's clearly not as good as McLaurin at this point, but he doesn't have to be. He'd be a very solid complementary piece, to help Haskins develop. 

In any case your NE point is a really good one. I see NE signing Green and even maybe bringing in Jordan Reed. If Brady comes back, they need to be all in. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeA.00.htm

 

 

 

 

Also, I agree with whoever posted about WR contracts not being worth it. This is such a great year to grab a WR in the draft. I'd rather draft a WR in the 3rd that can catch 50 balls than pay Robbie Anderson 13 million to do it. For 13 million, we could sign a premium OT that we wouldn't be able to get in the draft in the 3rd. 

[Est.1974]

58 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Also, I agree with whoever posted about WR contracts not being worth it. This is such a great year to grab a WR in the draft. I'd rather draft a WR in the 3rd that can catch 50 balls than pay Robbie Anderson 13 million to do it. For 13 million, we could sign a premium OT that we wouldn't be able to get in the draft in the 3rd. 

that’s a good approach as long as Terry Mc plays 16 games.

 

sign one, draft one. Same at TE.

[evmiii]

I agree a veteran WR is desirable, but I would not lock up anywhere near what Green or Anderson want.  We appear to have a #1 in Terry so we just need a a solid #2.  We need at least one TE,  a couple CBs, a FS and at least one OL (assuming Trent starts at left tackle and we re-sign or tag Brandon at RG).  I think we will most likely pick up a safety, a corner, a TE, and OL in free agency.  Draft will fill remaining slots.  Good free agency and solid draft we have the opportunity to be much improved and started down the path to respectability.   

[Anselmheifer]

4 minutes ago, evmiii said:

I agree a veteran WR is desirable, but I would not lock up anywhere near what Green or Anderson want.  We appear to have a #1 in Terry so we just need a a solid #2.  We need at least one TE,  a couple CBs, a FS and at least one OL (assuming Trent starts at left tackle and we re-sign or tag Brandon at RG).  I think we will most likely pick up a safety, a corner, a TE, and OL in free agency.  Draft will fill remaining slots.  Good free agency and solid draft we have the opportunity to be much improved and started down the path to respectability.   

 

These mid tier WR FA's are the opposite of a bargain. Give me Amari Cooper, or give me Funchess. Devin Funchess might be another Tre Boston level no brainer. Boston is not as good as Anthony Harris, but has graded out as a top FS over the past few years, is still young, and will cost a fraction of what Harris does. It's the kind of signing that adds a quality starter AND leaves you money to try to add another pro bowl caliber FA. 

Devin Funchess should be fully healed from his clavicle injury, is huge, has been productive, has a history with Ron Rivera, and would be cheap. Funchess would immediately be better than anything else we have at WR2, and would leave money to add more FA's, or to extend Dunbar, Trent Williams, Scherff, Flowers, etc. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FuncDe00.htm

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/devin-funchess?id=2552458

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Anselmheifer]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

I agree with this. I think Kerrigan stays on as a smart, tough, culture guy, and I think he can still produce as a backup and in sub packages. He's the kind of player that could be very good in a place like NE, but can also help us turn a corner here. At a minimum, he's a guy with a great work ethic that plays  through injuries and is reliable. He also does have some positional flexibility. He can back up both DE spots and can also play SAM in some packages. He's a guy that could easily step in if Chase or Montez are our for a game or two and still be productive. 

[skinny21]

46 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

that’s a good approach as long as Terry Mc plays 16 games.

 

sign one, draft one. Same at TE.

A few things at play for me here...

 

1) this is why I’d love to get a top receiver in the draft.  Sure, Lamb, Ruggs and Jeudy will likely be long gone by the time we pick again, but I’d be semi confident Higgins and Mims, along with a few others, could step into the #1 role if necessary.  
2) It’s obviously rare teams can lose their #1 wr and just shrug it off.

3) adding a 2nd via trading Trent or trading for Johnson is very tempting considering the wr talent we could potentially add at that pick.  
4) I want to build for the future, and I’m just not sure putting 12+mil into the receiver spot is the best way forward.  I would likely feel differently if we didn’t have Harmon/Sims (along with the prospect of adding a good TE) and if this draft wasn’t so loaded with receivers.  
 

My preference is to re-sign/retain a few key guys (Scherff, Flowers, Trent and maybe Dunbar), plug holes as best we can with cheaper, adequate guys, and then look to the draft...

or...

sign a few long term studs (eg. Hooper/Harris/Jones) and acquire picks to add youth and more rookie contracts.  I would look to re-sign at least Flowers or Scherff though, because the oline would be a huge detriment to Haskins and our backs.  

[Skin'emAlive]

I see New England going after Amari Cooper primarily. Green would be a cheaper option. But I think they go all in for Tom. 
 

This is a phenomenal draft for WRs. If we were in The #5-7 pick range, I would have jumped at Jeudy. If we had a 2nd round pick, I’d look at picking up a top flight wr there as well. But with the 1st going to Young, and no 2nd, I think the third has to go towards BPA ( hopefully Biadasz drops to us though). I see pairing AJ Green with McLaurin, Sims, and an upgrade at the TE position. It’s a healthy mix of young and established. 

[Jericho]

41 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

These mid tier WR FA's are the opposite of a bargain. Give me Amari Cooper, or give me Funchess. Devin Funchess might be another Tre Boston level no brainer. Boston is not as good as Anthony Harris, but has graded out as a top FS over the past few years, is still young, and will cost a fraction of what Harris does. It's the kind of signing that adds a quality starter AND leaves you money to try to add another pro bowl caliber FA. 



 

I tend to agree. It's generally the nature of free agency that you have to overpay. But if you overpay a top guy, then at least you're still getting good production. If you can't get a top guy, then you try and find people on one year prove-it type deals. The middle grounds is where the most busts come from. In theory, you can get good value anywhere if everything aligns, but it usually does not.

 

For WR, the only elite option is Cooper. AJ Green used to be elite, but age and injury makes him too risky unless it's a one year deal, IMO. If you don't want to go for Cooper or miss out, I'd likely just see who's looking for that one year deal. I imagine Funchess would be likely, considering he "settled" for a one year deal last year and then got hurt the whole year. I think a more likely plan might be to go an try and nab a top TE (there are two in Hopper and Henry) and just hope to get something in the draft at WR outside of one year deals.                         

[bakedtater1]

I would most certainly welcome devin funchess.

[Skin'emAlive]

Im baffled why would you all want Funchess? We have been building our team around Haskins and his strengths. That means elite route running and speed. Its why guys like McLaurin and Sims have had such success with Dwayne, and why trying to pick up AJ Green would be amazing. Funchess is a big body possession wr that was at his best with Cam Newton throwing jump passes. Thats not our offense, or what Haskins excels at.

[skinny21]

1 minute ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Im baffled why would you all want Funchess? We have been building our team around Haskins and his strengths. That means elite route running and speed. Its why guys like McLaurin and Sims have had such success with Dwayne, and why trying to pick up AJ Green would be amazing. Funchess is a big body possession wr that was at his best with Cam Newton throwing jump passes. Thats not our offense, or what Haskins excels at.

I tend to agree with this, especially since I think Harmon is already a solid possession receiver (and far cheaper than Funchess will be).  On top of that, it should be fairly easy to find an option at least as good in the draft, even if it’s the later rounds.  One thing I know little about is Funchess’ blocking, which could factor in a bit.  I can’t answer this, but is Funchess really a Tre Boston (money-wise) better than Harmon or Cam Sims?
 

As to Haskins’ strength, I wonder how well Turner’s offense will fit him.  I think it they will mesh well, but it’s hard for me to really say.  I bring this up because it could change how Funchess might fit.  Like, does Turner go with more comebacks, slants, etc (routes a big body can help with), vs the drags, quick outs, posts/go routes, etc.  
And here’s where I reach the limit of my understanding of the game - trying to piece the Air Cornell system, with tweaks Turner has made/included, or will implement for Haskins, together with the strengths of Haskins and various receiver types.  

 

All told though, I think I prefer looking to the draft.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

As to Haskins’ strength, I wonder how well Turner’s offense will fit him.  I think it they will mesh well

Scott needs to tailor the offense to whatever they deem Haskins does best.  Turner’s offense here could (should) look entirely different than the Carolina offense.  Because the QB is different, as are the rest of the pieces. 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Skin'emAlive]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

As to Haskins’ strength, I wonder how well Turner’s offense will fit him.  I think it they will mesh well, but it’s hard for me to really say.  I bring this up because it could change how Funchess might fit.  Like, does Turner go with more comebacks, slants, etc (routes a big body can help with), vs the drags, quick outs, posts/go routes, etc.  
And here’s where I reach the limit of my understanding of the game - trying to piece the Air Cornell system, with tweaks Turner has made/included, or will implement for Haskins, together with the strengths of Haskins and various receiver types. 

 

Well i think you need to look at the Carolina offense in the course of 3 different phases. All with varying results:

 

1. The Steve Smith offense. Delholme rode this offense to a long career. Combined with a good run game, this offense was pretty successful, but the ego's of Smith and Newton could not coexist.

2. The Cam Netwon offense. Build around the threat of the Cam RPO. His accuracy has never been stellar ( similar to the current MVP). But, that is not as important when running is a threat. Cam had success with big bodied receivers, as they would bail out his errant passes. Benjamin, Funchess, and Olsen. This style of offense fails, when the RPO is no longer a threat; something that correlates to the precarious health of a running qb.

3. The speedy playmaker offense. In back to back years Carolina drafted smaller, faster, playmaking wr's in Curtis Samuel and DJ Moore, as well as Christian McCaffrey, under the presumption that the threat of more speed would open the offense more for Cam. But the hits have already done the damage, and without the RPO threat, his accuracy issues are exposed. Samuel/Moore/McCaffrey will look better under a different QB ( like Rivers) who can get the ball out quickly. 

 

Now, Scott Turner did not build those offenses. Norv did, starting in 2018. Clearly Norv wanted to get faster and more unpredictable. Haskins excelled with speedy wr's like McLaurin, KJ Hill, Parris Campbell. We need 1 more speedy or elite level route running wr to pair with Sims and McLaurin.

 

As for the blocking... I think upgrading the TE position will fix that far more than a blocking wr would. We had arguably the worst TE makeup of any team after Reed and Davis went down. This can be addressed in FA.

[CommandB11]

I think something like AJ Green and drafting KJ Hill would solidify WR. Olsen and Njoku would fix TE. Offense eould be able to grow behind Haskins. (This assumes the return of Scherff and TW)

 

Draft Chase Young. Sign Bradberry and Boston. Find some LBs through FA and the draft. (Assuming the return of Dunbar, Foster, and keeping Kerrigan) Defense would be young, hungry, and talented. 

[markmills67]

What does everyone think about signing Conklin to play RT, then allowing Sherff to go and play Martin at RG, an upgrade from the very disappointing Moses could help Martin. Resign Flowers for LG and give Williams a new deal. I'm not saying I don't want Sherff to resign for the Skins but this OL would be quite good in my opinion. 

 

Conclin

Martin 

Roullier 

Flowers 

Williams 

 

 

 

HTTR 

 

 

 

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@markmills67 interesting concept. Conklin will cost about $14-15 million and may be seeking to play LT though. Moses being cut saves $5

million too. 

[skinny21]

That’s a nice breakdown Skin’em.  Doesn’t factor in Scott, though he should be taking heavily from his dad, as well as tailoring the offense to Haskins.  
I think there’s a certain mesh point of the latter type of offensive players for the Panthers and the group Haskins played with at Ohio.  Doesn’t mean that’s the type of personnel Scott wants for his offense, but it stands to reason there’s crossover given that personnel was acquired for Norv.  
 

I thought it was interesting that you brought up the large catch radius point in terms of Cam, because Haskins produced quite well in College without that type.  

[Est.1974]

18 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Beyond 2021 Ionidis is really the only non rookie cap number over $5 million. Moses too but assume he won’t be around past 2020 on his current deal 

Landon Collins as well.

[Est.1974]

On 1/14/2020 at 9:11 PM, HTTRDynasty said:

 

34. LB JOE SCHOBERT

There’s been a distinct line between Schobert’s play in the run game (where he’s graded at 55.0 or below over the last two years) and in coverage (where he graded at an excellent 87.7 in 2018 and a solid 67.6 last year). He finished 2019 with four interceptions and four pass breakups, and he’s transitioned nicely from college pass-rusher to valuable coverage linebacker. In a new system, that pass-rushing ability could come in handy, as he only rushed the passer 62 times last season after rushing over 100 times in his previous two years as a starter.

Seems like he could be heading for negotiations in CLE however still a distinct possibility that he hits free agency.

Can’t say he’s someone I’ve taken much notice of, so would he be a fit, and would he be worth the 10mil+ p/y deal he’s looking for. Would that represent good value for us or an excessive waste of cap resources...??