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With all the time that goes in game planning & watching tape etc, is there enough time to work on his mechanics during the week?

 

Given how he has responded to the mental side of the game over the last couple of weeks you'd be hopeful of his ability to take on coaching & grow but we may not see a major improvement in his accuracy til the off season when he can really work on it

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3 hours ago, Bunny Kelly said:

With all the time that goes in game planning & watching tape etc, is there enough time to work on his mechanics during the week?

 

Given how he has responded to the mental side of the game over the last couple of weeks you'd be hopeful of his ability to take on coaching & grow but we may not see a major improvement in his accuracy til the off season when he can really work on it

 

Yep - it is likely that major improvement will only occur during the offseason.  Again I take hope due to what we are currently seeing with Lamar Jackson.  I realize that he & Haskins are totally different types of QBs, but they are going thru somewhat similar situations.  They were mid-late 1st rounders & became starters late in their rookie season.

 

Jackson has made a remarkable improvement from his rookie year to this season.  If you recall last season he appeared to rely way too much on his legs & many folks had their doubts about whether he could be a complete QB & succeed long term.  At this time he is a complete QB & perhaps the frontrunner for the MVP.  I am not suggesting something similar will occur for Haskins (especially since he plays for Redskins), but there certainly is hope that he can make a dramatic jump from his 1st to his 2nd season.  It will depend a lot on the new coaching staff & will require major offseason work from Haskins (which should not be an issue).

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9 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

I know @Skinsinparadise already posted the link to this article, but I really liked it and wanted to point a few things out. 

 

 

1. I like that he's talking to people. While Smith isn't ultimately the QB I'd want Haskins to become, he did have to overcome a lot of things early in his career including a crazy owner, and press that constantly criticized him as the pick. 

2. I like that he also is talking to Doug Williams. Not focused on too much here but I know Doug tried to reach out to RG3 but never really connected. 

3. There has been a lot of talk today on the Sally Jenkins article but this focuses on another side of Haskins. I don't want to call it humility, but he seems to be actively seeking mentors and saying that he knows he doesn't know everything, and we're seeing the results of that in his play. 

 

 

 

Sure, even before coming here he's had mentor types.  As for the rap on Haskins as I mentioned in other posts on this thread, there are some consistent good things mentioned and bad things, too.  I saw Alex mentor all three of the QBs on the field during camp.    At this point, I don't care too much about the noise, I want to see progress as to his play. 

 

You mention in another post media bias against the team via the radio station.  There is some for sure (IMO very justified because its really all Dan-Bruce related) but not really player based.  Thinking about players, you got 3 radio guys who hate Norman (Smoot, Roulier, Russell) but otherwise tough to think of a player targeted.  You mentioned using Kirk as an example of an anti-Redskins bent but Kirk was put on that show right before the 2015 season, obviously they had no idea the contract would go south, then.  And Kirk was always a gentleman on that show, he took no shots and if anything he was the perfect ambassador.  DJ Swearinger was another thing but again I don't think they anticipated he'd hit the coaches but that's what he ended up doing.

 

As for Haskins specifically before the draft.  Off the top of my head, the media guys who loved him:  Russell, Rouhier, Keim, Finlay.  The ones who didn't like his potential:  Paulsen, Sheehan, Cooley.  Don't know if it means a thing but that's what I recall. 😀

 

Moving back to Haskins, unlike some here, I don't mind his bravado.  The selfie doesn't bother me.  Rocky performances even don't bother me as long as there are some flashes in the mix.  There are really just two things that worry me -- the gossip reports that the dude's work habits come and go and also his consistency comes and goes.  And no I am not planting my flag on either point.  His career is young.  But I am not blowing it off either as everyone is just making it up who covers the team (not saying you are) or just think that accuracy isn't a big deal and he will just work his way through it. 

 

I am no expert and not pretending to be.  But it wasn't hard to miss watching 5 practices where he struggled.  And the dude made some beauty passes from time to time in those practices.  And he can throw a nice ball in the middle of the field if it's short.  But the intermediate type throws in between the numbers often sailed high.  And he looked grossly inaccurate with out routes especially easy looking short out routes in the flat.  In practice they'd throw like 20 of those type throws in a row.  And Colt (who am not a fan of) looked like Tom Brady on them compared to Haskins.    If I didn't see that wildness in practice, the wildness during games probably would bother me less.  But yeah the idea that you'd see a few beauty throws then a whole bunch of wild -- how can he miss that type of throws would be a great summary of at least the 5 practices I watched.  I did see his best practice of camp (according to reporters who watched them all) where he was really good.  But the other 4 he was mostly poor to mediocre. 

 

Not saying he can't work through it but it also doesn't hit me as get out of here, what QB doesn't have that struggle with wildness?  I killed Daniel Jones on the draft thread in the off season but right now he looks like Tom Brady to me compared to Haskins.  And I get why Jones is ahead and said I expected that before the season but he's way ahead right now that to me they aren't even in the same conversation.    In short, I'd love to see at least one Daniel Jones caliber performance this season.  Jones hasn't always been hot.  He still has bust potential IMO.  But he's had some legitimate good games in the mix.  I've watched all of his games.

 

The one surprise to me about Haskins as to the pros versus college in a positive way (said so after watching camp, too) is his mobility.  He can move in the pocket and take off when needed.  I like that.  But you need to be able to make throws obviously to be a good QB.  Theismann made a good point I think the other day which is that he needs to put more arc on the ball, his ball right now is too flat.  I made that point previously about putting arc on the deep ball.   I am not comparing Campbell to Haskins -- two totally different QBs but I think that one point applies to both.  Campbell especially on deep balls would throw it flat and not give receivers the ability to get under the balls that easily. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Whatever level Haskins ends up at I think the way the season has panned out may help him reach his max potential.

 

If he started the year as qb1, raw as he is, with the season on the line he would have gotten murdered by everyone, opposition, media & fans and could have been a wreck by the off season with no chance of saving (Josh Rosen)

 

Coming in mid season the expectations are way down, he gets the game time needed as he didnt play much in college & he can really identify what he doesn't know & needs to work on. You can say he is inaccurate in camp or training but players justify & make excuses but you can't ignore the errant throws in game time so it gives him something tangible to work on.

 

the iffy mechanics may have always been there but as he was winning up this point in his carerr he never needed to work on it, now he has his 'learning moment'

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It started the worst way possible as being a Snyder pick (RG3, McNabb)

He was a college one year wonder (RG3)

Jay Gruden and the coaching staff didn't like him. link

His mindset was quite questionable to say the least Ray Stein’s Mailbox | Dwayne Haskins Jr. showed lack of maturity in NFL draft interview.

I'm skeptic about his chances to carry this team. I'm not going to label him a bust yet. I'm a doubting Thomas so I'll see week in week out how does he mature, how much does he learn, how will he adapt. I know this team might not be the best environment for his develeopment too. Nevertheless I wish him good luck on his journey.

Edited by FrFan
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Immaturity is not an excuse. The selfie episode after a 3 field goal output is just a typical example of Dan Snyder Redskins mindset. Same thing about the defense posing after a turnover in the Jets loss. I predict that Haskins does not finish the season and should not be the starter in 2020. Whoever the new coach is must tell Snyder/Allen that if he doesn't have absolute control over who plays and especially the QB situation, no go. Knowing Snyder/Allen they will tell the coach candidates that they are stuck with Haskins and then offer enough money that some sap will take it and then here we go again.

Edited by Smurf3
poor wording
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Is Tom House still accepting new clients?  The baseball coach / QB mechanics guru who Brady, Brees, and Palmer swear by?  If so, Haskins needs to book him ASAP for this summer. 

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I was riding in the car listening to sports radio in the twin cities talking about football.  Somehow the Skins came up and they started spouting the talking points that are starting to be established about him.  The words were "dummy", couldn't learn plays, and "immature" bringing up the selfie thing.  I only say this to note that he really needs to work on changing the narrative because once things like that get established they are hard to get rid of.  I'm hoping someone (Alex?) is in his ear talking about being a professional on and off the field and starting to right the ship PR wise.  Of course, as with so many things, winning would fix a lot of this.

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7 hours ago, Bunny Kelly said:

With all the time that goes in game planning & watching tape etc, is there enough time to work on his mechanics during the week?

 

Given how he has responded to the mental side of the game over the last couple of weeks you'd be hopeful of his ability to take on coaching & grow but we may not see a major improvement in his accuracy til the off season when he can really work on it

 

Really hard to work on mechanics during the season. That is what the work in the offseason should be focused on.

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4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

You mention in another post media bias against the team via the radio station.  There is some for sure (IMO very justified because its really all Dan-Bruce related) but not really player based.  Thinking about players, you got 3 radio guys who hate Norman (Smoot, Roulier, Russell) but otherwise tough to think of a player targeted.  You mentioned using Kirk as an example of an anti-Redskins bent but Kirk was put on that show right before the 2015 season, obviously they had no idea the contract would go south, then.  And Kirk was always a gentleman on that show, he took no shots and if anything he was the perfect ambassador.  DJ Swearinger was another thing but again I don't think they anticipated he'd hit the coaches but that's what he ended up doing.

  

As for Haskins specifically before the draft.  Off the top of my head, the media guys who loved him:  Russell, Rouhier, Keim, Finlay.  The ones who didn't like his potential:  Paulsen, Sheehan, Cooley.  Don't know if it means a thing but that's what I recall. 😀

 

To me its not about individual players, its more about the personalities of the hosts. There are three people that really work my nerves on that station: Grant Paulsen, Danny Rouhier, and Chad Dukes. Grant and Danny used to be tolerable because their bits were somewhat rooted in homerism and Skins fandom. But their attitude has slowly grown into one that's "I'm better than you". I've had to mute them on twitter because they get so annoying. Its like when Grant had to go into a press conference and basically say he was smarter than Dusty Baker telling him how to do his lineups. I get that he does that for his show, but one guy is a professional manager and the other guy inflates his ego for a living. And it wasn't like he was calling out a hated figure across the city like Bruce Allen, it was our Nats manager who was loved throughout the city and was taking the team ot the playoffs. 

 

And the problem when it relates to Haskins isn't the whole who's backing him vs who's not. Its the speculation that THE ONLY reason he's a first rounder is because Dan liked him. That is a factor, but many scouts and analysts had Haskins as a first rounder, if not the first QB in the draft. But they keep pushing a narrative forward. And its not just with Haskins. Its just like they search for negative stories to spotlight on their show. And Craig Hoffman, I love his ability but I hate that he works for that station. Its like he's being put in a position where he's an ambassador for the enemy of the team. I pointed out how he frames statements about Haskins (blaming Haskins) vs Norman (defending Norman). And I just think Dukes is mean to fans, to the point where its irritable. If I was still a listener to their shows I would have more examples but I'm like Haskins, I try to block the negativity.

 

On draft night though, look at the stories coming out. The main stuff was ok we got Dwayne. Paulsen tweets that he'd love to be a fly on the wall of Gruden's office, Hoffman that he was not Gruden's guy, Bickel says he's Dan Snyder's pick. 

 

Contrast that with Sheehan saying the building was split, but it could be Dan and Bruce's finese moment. Doc Walker and Brian Mitchell regularly go to the building and talk with the players and offer to mentor the guys. Brian says he went to Montae after his friend died to check on his mental health and let him know about therapy being offered by the league (which Montae said he was already utilizing). 

 

I have no problem with people having positive or negative opinions on any single player, but we're not the writers of this story. Haskins's play is. When an article like Sally Jenkins's comes out and tries to frame what his career will become as if she knows the guy and has read the book already it comes off as insulting. And when the media (I only heard the Junkies focus on it) takes that narrative and runs with it and use it to try to frame his story, it becomes an attack on his character. Why was there no radio air time given to the story about him going to the MedStar Hospital to visit patients (from both radio stations)? Its like they're trying to paint a narrative so that when he fails they can say "I told you". But at least the guys like Brian Mitchell and Doc Walker don't like to get in the rumor business. So with the Sally Jenkins article, there is a mention of "getting to the park at 10:45" and thats something I hear that G&D focused on, but Brian said he found out that Haskins was there at 10, but was engaging with fans, the angle not reported. 

 

I understand to us, and to most fans this is just a game and players are just pieces on the board that can be removed and replaced until we find one that works. But these are people with lives and vulnerabilities. I'm not saying to treat them with kid gloves, but I hold the media to a higher standard than TMZ, so just because TMZ will report a rumor, I don't think Paulsen or Bickel or Rouhier should throw it out there. If you remember, this is the same problem I had with Cooley and the reason I lost respect for him - he threw the rumor out there about Scot's drinking - he was the first to do so and before that nobody mentioned him drinking, and afterwards its just accepted as common knowledge. 

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28 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

 

And the problem when it relates to Haskins isn't the whole who's backing him vs who's not. Its the speculation that THE ONLY reason he's a first rounder is because Dan liked him. That is a factor, but many scouts and analysts had Haskins as a first rounder, if not the first QB in the draft. But they keep pushing a narrative forward.

 

It's weird for me of all people to say this since I post their stuff a lot but I do it more so for entertainment than deep reasons but guys like Kiper, McShay, etc aren't scouts.  They are media draft geeks as opposed to professional scouts and they get plenty wrong as do scouts.  We talk about it plenty in the draft threads.  Sometimes when personnel types are interviewed they goof on those guys.  When I asked Scot about them personally, he basically laughed at them. 

 

That's not me saying the draft geeks are always wrong.  They nail plenty but they get plenty wrong.  And I don't take their consensus about picks ultra seriously.  Like I said from what I recall McGinn's top 100 was the most accurate on draft day (those players were picked by scouts not the Kiper types)  And the scouts he talked about Haskins had more people who were negative on Haskins than positive. 

 

It's not the Redskins local media who on their own is making a claim that he doesn't deserve to be a first rounder but its what they were told behind the scenes from scouts on the Redskins.  I don't think scouts see McShay-Kiper-Brugler, etc as the definitive evaluators of a prospects draft position.  We sometimes do because we don't have any other type of info as to draft position.   But plenty of prospects have been pegged wrong but those guys as for draft position.  And not really every draft geek anyone loved Haskins.  Some did. 

 

And for any of the Haskins haters here.  None of this info is designed to kill the dude.  Am undecided about Haskins.  My point here is to Thinking Skins which is the idea that Redskins scouts told beat guys that they had him rated as a 2nd rounder isn't a position from Mars.  

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2830603-if-nfl-teams-like-dwayne-haskins-why-is-he-tumbling-down-draft-boards

Oddly, what teams say about Haskins privately isn't matching up with what analysts are proclaiming publicly. 

 

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2019-11-27 at 12.59.01 PM.png

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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If you look at the mocks and compare them to the actual draft you can see the difference.  The top 15 picks or so are right in line, maybe even most of the 1st round but after that it's all over the place.

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's not the Redskins local media who on their own is making a claim that he doesn't deserve to be a first rounder but its what they were told behind the scenes from scouts on the Redskins.  I don't think scouts see McShay-Kiper-Brugler, etc as the definitive evaluators of a prospects draft position.  We sometimes do because we don't have any other type of info as to draft position.   But plenty of prospects have been pegged wrong but those guys as for draft position.  And not really every draft geek anyone loved Haskins.  Some did. 

 

 

But its not just Keiper/McShay/whoever who are saying this. And even the stuff about Redskins park, I haven't seen anyone quote Kyle Smith on Haskins or any scouts within redskins park on Haskins. We hear these GMs who passed on Haskins but GMs passed on Rodgers, they passed on Lamar, they pass on players every year that should be high picks. That doesn't mean that the draft analysts who had Rodgers / Lamar / Haskins or whoever else as the top players are wrong, it just means that the teams picking didn't value that opinion. 

 

The narrative that's pushed by WJFK among others is that Haskins was picked only because he was Dan Snyder's pick, ignoring his 50 TD sceason, ignoring that ANY scouts had him listed as the top QB in the draft. Heck, Louis Reddick had him as better than Kyler Murray.

 

We're hearing about his numbers from the game 13/29, which is bad. I just posted a tweet in the next day thread from Mark Bullock who does a great job analyzing the play by play and showing where things went right / wrong. So people can focus on the simple number or they can focus on actually analyzing his games. Like Theisman was saying about how they were incomplete, not throwing them to where the defender could make the int. Haskins gave a reply to a question (which people are not focusing on) where he said that was by design, that he'd rather overthrow TMac than underthrow, basically putting it where only his guy can get it.

 

There was a narrative earlier in the year saying that Haskisn couldn't read defenese, which I mentioned before is something that always puts my ears on alert because (1) historically that has been something to keep African Americans from playing QB, and (2) during the entire draft process everything we heard about this guy was how intelligent he was, how he'd been playing QB since he was 10 and watching film for a long time. So naturally we saw Haskins push back against that. 

 

https://redskinswire.usatoday.com/2019/10/18/dwayne-haskins-rebukes-the-idea-that-he-cant-read-nfl-defenses/

 

Now I'm looking for stuff from analysts that inspect his game and I'm getting little of it. Its mostly just about the selfiegate. Whether he's a good QB or not, I want to discuss his play more than his antics. But its hard to find that, and when we do discuss it we get a lot more promising stuff. 

 

Callahan says Haskins had some big misses on Sunday but that the game was a major learning experience. Not just reads and progressions but footwork too. “I don’t think he was way off”

— JP Finlay (@JPFinlayNBCS) November 25, 2019


Callahan said Haskins definitely showed growth throughout the game. “He performed under pressure as well as you can possibly perform.”

Said the 4th quarter was really good.

— Craig Hoffman (@CraigHoffman) November 25, 2019
 

 

"He looked more assured of himself... but also showed understanding of both coverage schemes and leverage of individual defenders, which are signs of high-level quarterback play." Haskins was a few inches away from 2 TDs & 250+ yards. HAS to nail those throws. https://twitter.com/MarkBullockNFL/status/1199404758232121349 …

Felt this was a good throw from Haskins. Worked a clear progression, eyeing McLaurin on the post before working back to the dagger concept to his right. Made the throw to Harmon before he had cleared the zone defender, but lead him inside away from that defender. pic.twitter.com/axa2sU1jKJ
 
#Redskins film room: Breaking down Dwayne Haskins’ performance from the first win of his NFL career. - Good mental process - Aggressive mindset - Missed opportunities That and more on @TheAthleticDC here: https://theathletic.com/1411302/2019/11/26/despite-some-missed-throws-dwayne-haskins-showed-a-good-mental-process-against-the-lions/?source=shared-article …
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22 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

If you look at the mocks and compare them to the actual draft you can see the difference.  The top 15 picks or so are right in line, maybe even most of the 1st round but after that it's all over the place.

And I saw so few mocks with him out of the first. Given I saw few that had Jones or Lock out of the first either, and many of the analysts were saying there was little dropoff between the top 4 and  Grier or Finley. I'm definitely seeing more promise in Haskins than I've seen in Finley. But we'll see as the time progresses. 

 

I just like to hear more about what they do on the field. Hopefully we'll see more detailed discussions about the game action going forward.

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1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I haven't seen anyone quote Kyle Smith on Haskins or any scouts within redskins park on Haskins. We hear these GMs who passed on Haskins but GMs passed on Rodgers, they passed on Lamar, they pass on players every year that should be high picks. That doesn't mean that the draft analysts who had Rodgers / Lamar / Haskins or whoever else as the top players are wrong, it just means that the teams picking didn't value that opinion. 

 

 

  Draft geeks can get things right and get things wrong.  It doesn't change the narrative that they aren't scouts.  Heck I am a layman and pushed both McLaurin and Harmon.  On those specific players you can say I got it right over the scouts.  But that doesn't prove anything.  It just shows the randomness of the process.  Even Kiper admits it's hard to nail assessments right about players so the best thing to do is add picks and increase your odds. 

 

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

The narrative that's pushed by WJFK among others is that Haskins was picked only because he was Dan Snyder's pick, ignoring his 50 TD sceason, ignoring that ANY scouts had him listed as the top QB in the draft. Heck, Louis Reddick had him as better than Kyler Murray.

 

To each their own but this point means nothing to me. And I'll use some sarcasm from here to finish my point but its not directed at you, its just my way to bring the point home loudly.   

 

Most of the big names projected to go in the first round have stats and production to back the pick up.  That idea fits Dan's style.  Haskins played for Ohio State.  He had big stats.  It's a sexy pick.  But keep in mind if Haskins was this slam dunk prospect and the league saw him like Reddick did he'd have gone #1 or #2 not 15.  Heck many draft geeks had Lock as a top 10 pick or at least top 15, he ended up going in the 2nd round. 

 

Mel Kiper said years back he was so sure that Jimmy Claussen was the goods...

 

https://brobible.com/sports/article/mel-kiper-retire-jimmy-clausen-2018/

Back during the 2010 NFL Draft, ESPN draft expert Mel Kiper made the bold proclamation that if Notre Dame All-American Jimmy Clausen wasn’t a successful quarterback in the NFL within eight years he would retire. Time’s up, Mel!

 

 

We read for example that Dan had a man crush on Brady Quinn but his scouts talked him out of it. Yeah Quinn had plenty of hype from draft geeks.  He was a big college player who played for a big school.  So why condemn Dan for sharing that man crush with draft geeks?  Well because if it were that easy to pick players, why not just take ESPN's top 100, or Jeremaih's or whomever?  Why even bother with scouts?  Look up these dude's numbers, check out their hype, and heck if McShay and Brugler or whomever all agree that this is the right dude -- then enough said.  Why bother with a Kyle Smith, its a waste of money. 

 

What's wrong with the Redskins scouts, they should have just let Dan get his guy and leave it alone?  Why would drafting Quinn seem that out of place?  Why did he fall late in the first round when so many had Quinn as an early pick?  So lets say the Redskins had the 15th pick and took Quinn and he was slammed for it.  We can defend it by saying look Kiper, McShay and a slew of others had him as the first or 2nd pick in the draft -- so how can we give Dan a hard time?

 

Yeah I'd agree with that if the draft geeks and media talking heads ruled the roost.  And heck yeah I think its totally on brand for Dan to run with stuff like that and yes if we judged the move completely by draft geeks opinion, Dan wouldn't have been off.  But obviously teams aim higher than that otherwise why even bother with a scouting team let alone making visits, digging into backgrounds hard, heck some even hire PIs -- instead just get Kiper's yearly report, Brugler does a really good one, too.  Check for players that most of the draft geeks like and then rock and roll?

 

 

https://www.espn.com/espnmag/story?id=4059528

02. LIONS

McShay: I know this will drive their fans crazy, but the Lions will select Johnson. They should take Brady Quinn, but you get the sense they don't like him.

Kiper: If the Lions pass on Quinn, it would be yet another in a long line of questionable decisions. I think they will, although not for Johnson. They'll take Clemson DE Gaines Adams, a Simeon Rice-type edgerusher.

 

Cleveland Browns 2007 Draft Pick Cleveland Browns: Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame NotreDame_logo.gif
In my first ever 2007 Mock Draft I had Brady Quinn No. 1. Ever since then, I moved him all over the place... With an impressive Pro Day and a soaring draft stock, Quinn is back in the top three.

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

 

"He looked more assured of himself... but also showed understanding of both coverage schemes and leverage of individual defenders, which are signs of high-level quarterback play." Haskins was a few inches away from 2 TDs & 250+ yards. HAS to nail those throws. https://twitter.com/MarkBullockNFL/status/1199404758232121349 …

Felt this was a good throw from Haskins. Worked a clear progression, eyeing McLaurin on the post before working back to the dagger concept to his right. Made the throw to Harmon before he had cleared the zone defender, but lead him inside away from that defender. pic.twitter.com/axa2sU1jKJ
 
#Redskins film room: Breaking down Dwayne Haskins’ performance from the first win of his NFL career. - Good mental process - Aggressive mindset - Missed opportunities That and more on @TheAthleticDC here: https://theathletic.com/1411302/2019/11/26/despite-some-missed-throws-dwayne-haskins-showed-a-good-mental-process-against-the-lions/?source=shared-article …

 

I read Bullock's take which had a warning in the mix about how he needs to fix his accuracy.  I got my own take which I listed before the draft and I got into a ton of detail this summer as to watching him in camp.

 

I am not in the mood to dissect his play in detail again because it gives a false impression that I've landed on an opinion, which I haven't yet.

 

If I had to go to Vegas right now and pick boom or bust.  I'd pick bust.  However, I wouldn't bet a dime yet because my mind is miles away from being made up.    And I try to keep an open mind, I was down for example on Daniel Jones before the draft, and he's looked better than I expected.    As for Haskins, there are some things I like about him better than I did before the draft.  There are somethings that look worse than I expected.  I haven't made up my mind.

 

I do agree that he shouldn't be saddled as Dan's guy albeit just about everyone said that was Dan's pick (even Keim).  Sheehan said Bruce, too.  I also suspect that Doug was the other in on him based on something Reddick said on NFL live once.  So the Dan's pick part to me is more than fair since it seems clear he was at least part of that mix.  Heck I think it was Finlay who said Dan only sat in on one player interview at the combine.  Guess which one?

 

But I feel bad for the dude because of the stigma attached to that considering Dan's instincts on QB considering his history are atrocious.  But I like to say (even though it can be taken sarcastically I don't mean it that way) that Dan is due.  The law of averages has to kick in at some point.  If I gave my young son a list of the top 5 QBs according to draft geeks every few years or so and he kept picking one randomly, eventually one would have to end up right?  You got to be extremely unlucky to keep picking them wrong. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Who knows how Haskins will actually turn out down the road, but the revisionism is hilarious.  Skins were almost universally praised for the selections of both Haskins/Sweat in round 1.  Now, that Haskins 1st round grade was questionable?  LOL.  These media clowns can't even keep that same energy....

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2 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

Who knows how Haskins will actually turn out down the road, but the revisionism is hilarious.  Skins were almost universally praised for the selections of both Haskins/Sweat in round 1.  Now, that Haskins 1st round grade was questionable?  LOL.  These media clowns can't even keep that same energy....

 

The media isn't saying he was overdrafted, they are saying they are being told by some Redskins scouts at Redskins Park that they had Haskins graded as a 2nd rounder.

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10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The media isn't saying he was overdrafted, they are saying they are being told by some Redskins scouts at Redskins Park that they had Haskins graded as a 2nd rounder.

 

And anyone with objective eyes can see that he was overdrafted.  

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52 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

And anyone with objective eyes can see that he was overdrafted.  

 

He certainly looks to have been over drafted given his play this year. He's the second worst QB in the NFL in both INT % and QBR among all QB's with at least 100 attempts. His completion % is also near the bottom.

 

I'd like to see an example of a QB who turned out well and had a successful career after having this rough of a rookie season. None come to mind.

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If I had to go to Vegas right now and pick boom or bust.  I'd pick bust.  However, I wouldn't bet a dime yet because my mind is miles away from being made up.    And I try to keep an open mind, I was down for example on Daniel Jones before the draft, and he's looked better than I expected.    As for Haskins, there are some things I like about him better than I did before the draft.  There are somethings that look worse than I expected.  I haven't made up my mind.

 

 

See this is the opposite of what I'm looking for. Its not about a betting argument right now. That's all I hear on the radio, what he'll ultimately be, what he has no hopes of being, etc. You talk about the five practices you attended, and thats great but that was 5 months ago or so. How has he grown since then? I like Bullock because he talks about play by play. Not some over-arching image or some projection, just "he did this right", "he did htis wrong". That allows me to read the story chapter by chapter, not some cliffnotes type movie review. 

 

The offseason is a good time to make the Vegas bets, when I miss football and it won't be back for months. But during the season I want to be diving into the content, the on the field stuff, looking at it from the sideline view, the under center view, the MLB view, whatever view I can see because I want to learn as much as I can. 

 

Craig Hoffman to me is another gem in this regard. he does a really good job of analyzing the content and doing the play by play. Same with Mark Tyler from Hogs Haven. But I realize that none of those guys are pros at it and can get it wrong, sometimes they disagree on the same play, but it provides good avenue to have a detailed discussion on a particular aspect of a given play or player. 

 

I just want more of that because I think its going to have much more of an impact of how successful he is vs simply looking at completion percentage or TDs or a press conference. 

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26 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

He certainly looks to have been over drafted given his play this year. He's the second worst QB in the NFL in both INT % and QBR among all QB's with at least 100 attempts. His completion % is also near the bottom.

  

 I'd like to see an example of a QB who turned out well and had a successful career after having this rough of a rookie season. None come to mind.

I have been looking at Drew Bledsoe a lot lately. he's somebody who I saw Haskins compared to in some draft profiles, so I looked up his rookie stats: 

 

47% 2TD 2INT, 
57% 1TD 1INT, 
45% 1TD 2INT, 
45% 0TD 2INT, 
47% 1TD 0INT, 
50% 0TD 0INT, 
54% 1TD 1INT, 
55% 0TD 1INT, 
37% 1TD 5INT, 
50% 1TD 0INT, 
40% 1TD 1INT, 
81% 2TD 0INT, 
62% 4TD 1INT

 

Some other names

Rodney Peete   https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PeetRo00.htm
Charlie Batch   https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BatcCh00.htm
Alex Smith   https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitAl03.htm

 

Not sure who to really put in here though because we don't have much to go with. But there are a lot of players who had bad rookie years and turned it around to have good careers. 

Edited by Thinking Skins

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10 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I have been looking at Drew Bledsoe a lot lately. he's somebody who I saw Haskins compared to in some draft profiles, so I looked up his rookie stats: 

 

47% 2TD 2INT, 
57% 1TD 1INT, 
45% 1TD 2INT, 
45% 0TD 2INT, 
47% 1TD 0INT, 
50% 0TD 0INT, 
54% 1TD 1INT, 
55% 0TD 1INT, 
37% 1TD 5INT, 
50% 1TD 0INT, 
40% 1TD 1INT, 
81% 2TD 0INT, 
62% 4TD 1INT

 

Can't compare those numbers, it's a much different era now.  Especially touchdown/interception ratios.

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Jared Goff was just horrible his rookie year. I thought he was a surefire bust.  Then all of a sudden, when McVay became the head coach, he had QB rating of 100+ for two straight years.  People may say he is a bust based on this year, but he got a nice 100+ million contract.

So we never know.  If I had to guess, Haskins is extremely close based on the reads he is making.

Now, people say his stats were inflated at Ohio state.  Probably so, but the touchdowns don't look dink and dunk to me.

 

 

 

Guy looks accurate.  He is not going to miss all the deep throws like on Sunday.  He had 17 20+ yard touchdowns.  

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