FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

For the record, that's still not saying Haskins isn't trying.

 

It's that he isn't doing everything he can to be successful, and while he is putting in effort, he isn't aware of how much of a time commitment it is to give it your all.

 

 

 

I agree with this.  And multiple reliable type reporters have said both coaching staffs have relayed to Haskins these concerns and what they'd like to see from Haskins and yet he hasn't taken them to heart.  And that's a key part of their frustration with him.

 

You add to that pile that he had some red flags on this count before the draft then its not hard to come to the conclusion that he likely doesn't have the drive to be a great Qb.  

 

Some twist this as him being lazy.  I don't think they are describing Haskins as lazy or not trying.  They are saying that to be a great QB you often have to be a workaholic.  Not average work ethic but a workaholic and Haskins hasn't shown to be that dude.

 

For me the most telling of all the Haskins narratives on this front was the one from the Ohio State reporter who said he sat in on a QB practice and witnessed Burrow make fun of how little Haskins knew/studied the playbook.  

 

To me at least based on the narratves I've heard/read, Haskins unlikely has the drive to conquer his weaknesses.  And that is the main reason why they are willing to move on from him.  They thought maybe the light bulb got switched on finally this off season but it faded at some point during training camp.  I am guessing this is Haskins last stand as to showing them he can improve his preparation skills.

 

I am skeptical Haskins pulls it off.  I think you either love football and are driven to be great or you are not.   People can artifically motivate themsleves for a spell but it doesn't tend to last if it isn't inherent in their personality.

[Skinsinparadise]

I am not posting this tweet out of bitterness but I find it funny

 

 

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Except I did. 

And practically everyone else as well.  We may not have combed every ounce of tape of the 3 guys, but it was pretty easy to see the stark differences between Murray/Tua and Haskins from even a casual fan standpoint.  In fact, this is the first time I've ever seen or heard Dwayne being mentioned as on par with those guys as a pro prospect.  Dwayne had a great season at OSU, there is no taking that away - but that's different than how one projects to the pros.  Not to mention that both Arizona and Miami aren't exactly the beacons of organizational fortitude and player development themselves.

[RichmondRedskin88]

5 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

What's silly to me is people who I know never watched a minute of his college career trying to tell me my evaluation of him as a prospect, made long before we drafted him, is wrong because he didn't pan out for this piece of **** team.  When a franchise and this coaching staff in particular can display such breathtaking incompetence with the way they handle their QBs over and over again and people will still carry water for them and blame the player for the failure.  When you say he never had it like Tua or Kyler no matter the context, then I know you didn't watch them in 2018.  If you had, you would know that's not true.  What Tua and Murray are doing now is what we could have had with Haskins if this franchise didn't completely suck.  It's hard to accept.  This awful coaching staff and front office threw that away (and an early fifth round pick) for Kyle Allen so our unqualified offensive coordinator could get his safety blanket.

Bro I watched OSU basically his entire college career and what stick out to me was how often his insanely talented WRs and RB made a play for him when he was in real trouble.  He played behind a stacked O line that gave him 10-12 second to throw and when all else fails he  could drop it off to a RB and WR who would get 10 yards on their own. He’s not at a top college with 98% of the best players in the league anymore where most weeks you just have to show up to trounce a lame Big 10 team. Terry obviously got the memo. 

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Bro I watched OSU basically his entire college career and what stick out to me was how often his insanely talented WRs and RB made a play for him when he was in real trouble.  He played behind a stacked O line that gave him 10-12 second to throw and when all else fails he  could drop it off to a RB and WR who would get 10 yards on their own. He’s not at a top college with 98% of the best players in the league anymore where most weeks you just have to show up to trounce a lame Big 10 team. Terry obviously got the memo. 

 

I watched every game I can get more hands on and twice as to Haskins and watched him in his first camp a lot where he threw a ton of balls. 

 

PFF ran a stat that showed he was one of the most dependant among all college QBs that year on YAC. Haskins had accuracy with short yardage in route throws right in between the numbers --  digs, slants, shallow crossers, mesh routes, etc.  And Ohio State did that a ton. 

 

In the pros, you need to have the ability to spray the ball all around the field and IMO his ball placement outtside of his wheel house is really bad (even with short throws in the flat when they are at the numbers or past the numbers).  And he doesn't throw well on the move.  

 

He has a strong arm and a quick release.  And yeah maybe he can overcome his accuracy short comings.  But I haven't seen it yet in the pros.  And the kicker for me the zillion articles suggesting that he isn't putting in the time.  And to me that's not a character flaw.  It comes off to me that the dude doesn't love football.  You read about Peyton, Brees and Brady and they come off as dudes that get off on studying and practice because they love it where they don't need to be egged on to do it. 

[IrepDC]

7 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

The Baltimore Ravens release an all pro saftey this year because he was an asshole, a bad teammate.  We all knew this before his release, we sure heard about it after.  That's just off the top of my head.  

 

Stop blaming the leaks and point the finger where it belongs, at the entitled diva.  

You know what, you guys are right. The leaks are fine. The culture here is fine. We don't have any issues with keeping things in house and our team is on par with the likes of the Ravens. I don't know what I was thinking, complaining about leaks here over the years. They aren't a symptom of the loser culture. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

What's silly to me is people who I know never watched a minute of his college career trying to tell me my evaluation of him as a prospect, made long before we drafted him, is wrong because he didn't pan out for this piece of **** team.  When a franchise and this coaching staff in particular can display such breathtaking incompetence with the way they handle their QBs over and over again and people will still carry water for them and blame the player for the failure.  When you say he never had it like Tua or Kyler no matter the context, then I know you didn't watch them in 2018.  If you had, you would know that's not true.  What Tua and Murray are doing now is what we could have had with Haskins if this franchise didn't completely suck.  It's hard to accept.  This awful coaching staff and front office threw that away (and an early fifth round pick) for Kyle Allen so our unqualified offensive coordinator could get his safety blanket.

This really comes off as sour grapes.  

 

2 coaching staffs both said Haskins wasn't putting in the work.  

 

It's absolutely unmistakable Kyle Allen and Alex Smith are more comfortable in the offense than Haskins was. The play book has expanded, and guys are getting open, and everything looks significantly smoother.  

 

If Haskins had shown any growth at all he would still be playing,  But he didn't and now he's not.  And a guy who's leg looked it was attacked by a great white shark just played a pretty good game and racked up a ton of yards and scored 20 points with an offense that looked absolutely competent, after being stuck in a big hole.  Yes, I know, he made 1 completely boneheaded throw over the head of a receiver back across his body, and one late throw on an INT.  Which was unfortunate, but between Alex and Kyle, they were 29/39 for 375 yards, and it all wasn't checkdown stuff, they stretched the field, were creative, and had a really good plan.  

 

Scott Turner is a first year OC, but there is something too him, and maybe you should think about the reverse: the reason the offense looked so pedestrian early in the year is not because Scott Turner is unqualified, but because Haskins couldn't come remotely close to executing the offense.  

 

Also, there were plenty of people who did watch Haskins in 2018 who didn't have him evaluated as a 1st round QB.  

 

Look, I really don't give a damn about Haskins one way or the other.  I was rooting for him and @Skinsinparadise and I even had an off-season chat (I think in this very thread) about how it looked like maybe Dan finally got one right, and Haskins would be able to develop.  I'm certainly not rooting against him.  However, I can tell you based on watching football for the better part of 40 years I trust my eyes enough to tell me Kyle and Alex are executing the offense better than Haskins was.  I can tell you the offense is more diverse, and the playbook is more open.  I can also tell you Haskin's mechanics were a complete mess.  He absolutely had no ability to throw on the run moving to his right, and even to his left, it wasn't pretty.  He has an NFL arm and good size/speed.  But what is troubling is after 2 years of NFL coaching, (and while Jay Gruden might be an enormous boob and a terrible HC, he's not bad with QBs, and Kevin O'Connell was also on that staff, and worked a lot with Haskins, and he's pretty well respected, and working with McVay now)  including with Zampese, who's widely regarded as an outstanding QB coach to young QBs, his mechanics were STILL a mess.  His accuracy was still bad.  

 

All of this points back to the player.  Could Haskins have landed in a better spot?  Sure.  But he has to take some responsibility as well.  

[RichmondRedskin88]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I watched every game I can get more hands on and twice as to Haskins and watched him in his first camp a lot where he threw a ton of balls. 

 

PFF ran a stat that showed he was one of the most dependant among all college QBs that year on YAC. Haskins had accuracy with short yardage in route throws right in between the numbers --  digs, slants, shallow crossers, mesh routes, etc.  And Ohio State did that a ton. 

 

In the pros, you need to have the ability to spray the ball all around the field and IMO his ball placement outtside of his wheel house is really bad (even with short throws in the flat when they are at the numbers or past the numbers).  And he doesn't throw well on the move.  

 

He has a strong arm and a quick release.  And yeah maybe he can overcome his accuracy short comings.  But I haven't seen it yet in the pros.  And the kicker for me the zillion articles suggesting that he isn't putting in the time.  And to me that's not a character flaw.  It comes off to me that the dude doesn't love football.  You read about Peyton, Brees and Brady and they come off as dudes that get off on studying and practice because they love it where they don't need to be egged on to do it. 

Exactly.  I’m passionate about running and golfing.  I spend time studying my stride for runs.  Golfing I spend time on YouTube watching pros explain the types of hits you can make and how.  I spend hours at home just practicing running or core training and swinging my arms as though I’m swinging on the golf course. Around my area people see me running along the road.  At the courses people know me for going to the training facilities and just practicing from driving to putting when I’m not playing the course. You shouldn’t need to be pushed if you really want to do it. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

They are saying that to be a great QB you often have to be a workaholic. 

At any given time, there are probably 15-20 people in the country who have the capability of being an NFL QB.  

 

You have to be:

1. Amazingly physically gifted, in terms of size, athleticism, and arm talent.

2. Mature beyond your years in work ethic

3. Have exceptional memory recall

4. Be really competitive

5. Be extraordinarily mentally tough to block out all the noise and focus on just what's important

6. Live an extremely disciplined life while having the temptation of doing literally anything you want at any time, including drugs, alcohol, gambling and girls.  All the temptations, all the time.  

 

If you have all those things, then you can start to talk about football, mechanics, etc.  But if you don't have those qualities, nothing else matters, you don't be a long term starter in the NFL.  

 

There just aren't that many people alive who can pull this off, which is why it's so hard to find people who can.  

[JSSkinz]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

My only guess would be the stats / defending his play against Baltimore. If indeed he was making the wrong reads or checking down too fast or not taking enough risks and unwilling to admit that this was the case or maybe Haskins thought of it as a damned if he does and damned if he doesn't (Cleveland game being risky vs Baltimore game being safe) and that could easily be the type of altercation that this stems from. 

I don't think it has anything to do with what he did on the field, I think it's bigger than that, it has to be.

[NoCalMike]

The problem with using college results as an automatic indicator of potential NFL success is that there a lot of intangibles that can make you a college superstar but don't mean the same things in the NFL (necessarily).   Athleticism & having a cannon for an arm is enough for a college QB at a lot of schools because of the level of talent that is put around them at Division 1A.  Throwing balls to wide open WRs who are going up against guys who will be playing on their corporate flag football teams in a few years is not the same as making throws in tight coverage.   This of course is an over simplification but we are going by Snyder's track record of what and who he is impressed with when wanting to draft a QB.  Both times the head coach did not want that QB drafted, and both times there was very likely talent lower down in the draft that were better NFL prospects. 

[JSSkinz]

HaskAnon's going crazy

[Skinsinparadise]

"I think it will be very good for Dwayne," Rivera said in the video clip above. "Dwayne's going to get an opportunity to see how to truly prepare for a game as a starter." 

What does that statement say from Rivera? While many talk about mixed messages, you don't have to be a genius to understand that what Rivera is suggesting is that Haskins not only doesn't know how to prepare to be a starter but he didn't work hard enough to figure it out. 

"Body by Instagram'' only counts for so much.

Rivera pointed out that he admires Alex Smith's work ethic and compared him to Phillip Rivers, who Rivera was around in San Diego a decade or so ago. 

He mentioned that Rivers was a first-in, last-out (of the building) type of quarterback, as Smith seems to be. That's what it takes at this level. 

Rivera said Haskins has been doing good things behind the scenes and that certainly leads to his opportunity to be one snap away ... but as always, the real challenge now becomes this: Can a player maintain that work ethic and dedication that he didn't have earlier? Will he learn? Will he mimic Alex Smith?

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootball/news/fate-hands-washington-football-team-qb-dwayne-haskins-another-chance

 

 

 

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Has he been expressing a lot of anti-WFT talk while being benched, that would indicate he has no interest in a possible future with the team ?

[Skinsinparadise]

latest pff

 

 

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

2 hours ago, IrepDC said:

You know what, you guys are right. The leaks are fine. The culture here is fine. We don't have any issues with keeping things in house and our team is on par with the likes of the Ravens. I don't know what I was thinking, complaining about leaks here over the years. They aren't a symptom of the loser culture. 

 

You still don't get it and probably never will.  I never said the culture was fine. If you are going to quote me it's not too much to ask that you are accurate.  As long as Snyder owns the team the culture will never be fine, I've been pretty clear about that.  

 

In this case the leaks were not such a horrible thing, it gave clarity to the situation.  Many minds were changed once they heard the reports, it made more sense that the QB was benched after 4 games after we understood the reason.  You are just mad because you don't like what the leaks were saying about your hero.

[Malapropismic Depository]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

latest pff

 

 

 

 

 

Lucas is our highest rated OL ?

Especially hard to believe, since anything that has McLaurin less than 100.00, must be deeply flawed

But I like where Holcomb is at - 2nd highest on the team, right behind TMC

 

[IrepDC]

4 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

You still don't get it and probably never will.  I never said the culture was fine. If you are going to quote me it's not too much to ask that you are accurate.  As long as Snyder owns the team the culture will never be fine, I've been pretty clear about that.  

 

In this case the leaks were not such a horrible thing, it gave clarity to the situation.  Many minds were changed once they heard the reports, it made more sense that the QB was benched after 4 games after we understood the reason.  You are just mad because you don't like what the leaks were saying about your hero.

I get it. You agree with me about leaks being a problem. In any other case you would rightfully admit that they are a problem and symptom of Snyder. Except this instance they were okay... FYI I talk about the leaks with every player so please stop with the hero talk. I mentioned Kerrigan and Williams earlier in this very thread. You are the one talking out both ends of your neck and making an exception because you don't like Haskins. Some of our "fans" confuse me trying to "shame" guys for rooting for our players to succeed. I read someone say "Haskins Humpers" lol we consistently have fans doing this on the board.. to me you guys are a part of the loser culture too lol but whatever. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

19 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

I get it. You agree with me about leaks being a problem. In any other case you would rightfully admit that they are a problem and symptom of Snyder. Except this instance they were okay... FYI I talk about the leaks with every player so please stop with the hero talk. I mentioned Kerrigan and Williams earlier in this very thread. You are the one talking out both ends of your neck and making an exception because you don't like Haskins. Some of our "fans" confuse me trying to "shame" guys for rooting for our players to succeed. I read someone say "Haskins Humpers" lol we consistently have fans doing this on the board.. to me you guys are a part of the loser culture too lol but whatever. 

I only agreed with you that the culture here is not good as long as Synder is the owner, this is obvious.  I didn't say once that leaks were a big problem, the problem with the culture goes way beyond leaks.

 

 I don't care about Kerrigan or Williams, this is the Dwayne Haskins thread and you have been saying repeatedly in this thread that the problem is the leak when the real problem is the information provided in the leaks.  You are shooting the messenger and ignoring the message and that's the problem here.  In this particular case the leaks provided important information for people to understand the true story here.  

 

 

[Est.1974]

Haskins is getting another chance, it’s almost a given at this stage, let’s stick him in against the Bengals and see how he fairs in a contest with Burrow.

[KDawg]

I'm actually curious to see what this whole experience has taught him. This could be a major turning point in his career if he plays his cards right. 

 

Believe it or not, I am 100% cheering for him if he comes in the game at any point. I may even do an audible "Come on, Dwayne!" from my couch.

 

If he learned and improves its the best thing that can happen for this franchise for the next few years. 

 

If he turns it around it's going to be fun to see how everyone in this thread plays it, too...

 

Will the Haskins people claim that was what he had all along? Will they acknowledge he may have learned something from this whole thing? Will the people that saw flaws in Haskins think that this was all Rivera's handling of the situation that allowed Dwayne to turn it around? Or will they give credit to Dwayne?

 

Exciting times. 

[IrepDC]

45 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I only agreed with you that the culture here is not good as long as Synder is the owner, this is obvious.  I didn't say once that leaks were a big problem, the problem with the culture goes way beyond leaks.

 

 I don't care about Kerrigan or Williams, this is the Dwayne Haskins thread and you have been saying repeatedly in this thread that the problem is the leak when the real problem is the information provided in the leaks.  You are shooting the messenger and ignoring the message and that's the problem here.  In this particular case the leaks provided important information for people to understand the true story here.  

 

 

You must have missed my original comments in this thread about Haskins needing to do work, and how that's out of the teams control. The entire point of me discussing the culture was because that's the thing the team and we as fans contribute to. I really didn't think my point was that hard to grasp as many others got it. The leaks are either a problem or they're not, in my opinion. In yours they're sometimes okay. That's fine.

[carex]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I watched every game I can get more hands on and twice as to Haskins and watched him in his first camp a lot where he threw a ton of balls. 

 

PFF ran a stat that showed he was one of the most dependant among all college QBs that year on YAC. Haskins had accuracy with short yardage in route throws right in between the numbers --  digs, slants, shallow crossers, mesh routes, etc.  And Ohio State did that a ton. 

 

In the pros, you need to have the ability to spray the ball all around the field and IMO his ball placement outtside of his wheel house is really bad (even with short throws in the flat when they are at the numbers or past the numbers).  And he doesn't throw well on the move. 

 

I thought YAC was a vital stat

[Skin'emAlive]

I think it’s foolish to make a call on Haskins future based on his inability to prepare as well as Alex Smith. We are talking about a well-off guy at the end of his career who chose the possibility of death and the certainty of random body parts getting stapled to his leg just for the opportunity to be a backup with the worst team in the league, with no OL, a rookie OC, a new coaching staff, sans a single starter outside of Terry Mclaurin on the offensive roster. 
 

Nobody can compete with that sort of will! No one! That’s maniacal. I still think Dwayne has the skills to be a starter in this league. I fully believe Ron made a mistake benching him when he did. I would have rode it out this year and made a decision in the off-season. I sincerely hope he didn’t bench him because he didn’t reach Alex’s benchmark for prep, because that bar is higher than any other player in sports history right now. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, carex said:

 

I thought YAC was a vital stat

It certainly is. But context matters as to how it’s attained.