FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Spaceman Spiff]

At this point, I wouldn't mind giving Haskins some more time this year, only because I'd like to see the Haskins Humpers whine after he falls on his face again.  I'd like to see the new and creative ways they can make Haskins failures the problem of everyone else but Haskins.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

At this point, I wouldn't mind giving Haskins some more time this year, only because I'd like to see the Haskins Humpers whine after he falls on his face again.  I'd like to see the new and creative ways they can make Haskins failures the problem of everyone else but Haskins.

Starting Dwayne doesn’t send a great message to the team.  I’m sure guys in that locker room still believe they can win the division and win it with Alex Smith.

 

But I agree, in the sense that Haskinsgate probably makes this season more interesting. 

[Thinking Skins]

Ron Rivera on September 27th: 

Rivera said he talked to Dwayne Haskins Jr. after the game and said, "I told you, I'm behind you. I'm going to stick with you, so go out and play football."

 

Rivera on Haskins: "I'm not going to pull the plug on him just because something like this happens."

 

Rivera knows there will be a lot of outside noise after today's game, and he said that's exactly what it is: noise. He's going to support Haskins.

 

Ron Rivera supports QB Dwayne Haskins despite a rough day: "I'm going to take my lumps with Dwayne. ... The way I see it, he's barely through a rookie year right now."

 

Head coach Ron Rivera on QB Dwayne Haskins: "He'll get better. He'll grow, and I think he's a guy we can follow."

 

Ron Rivera on October 7th

 

Ron Rivera on the QB switch: "The biggest thing is looking at where we are in terms of our schedule and circumstances. This has been thought out by me for a while."

 

Ron Rivera: "This has been thought out by me for a while. To me, it goes back to the beginning of the schedule." He figured with four NFC games coming up, incl. 3 division games, they're better off putting ball in Kyle Allen's hands bc he's more familiar w/the system.

 

Rivera said the decision to move to Allen has been thought out by him for a while. He mentioned the schedule, which includes three division games, and based on what has happened with Haskins, WAS is better off putting the ball in the hands of the people who know their system.

 

Ron Rivera: "I just based on the things that have gone on with Dwayne, based on his development and where he is, we're better off going with guys that know our system ..."

 

Ron Rivera on switching quarterbacks: "It goes back to the schedule. ... We've got three divisional games coming up."

"This is not an indictment on Dwayne ... more so than the situation than we are in."

 

Rivera said this "is not an indictment on Dwayne" but more about his development in the system. "It's just one of those things where he needs more time."

 

Rivera said Haskins has not had the opportunity to play a lot of football and the benefit of getting the work he would normally have gotten in a preseason w/o COVID-19.

 

Ron Rivera: Dwayne's got an NFL arm but he doesnt have a lot of NFL experience. Rivera says lack of OTAs and preseason was really tough

 

Rivera says fans dont see the frustration of other players on the sideline and that players want to win. Interesting.

 

Rivera: “What people don’t see is the frustration in the sideline of other players. Guys want to win. Our best shot to win is with guys that have been in the system.”

 

Ron Rivera: "I think our best shot to win is with guys who have been in the system."

 

"I think our best chance to win is to put the ball in somebody else's hands. ... I could be wrong or I could be right. ... That's why we play the games." Ron Rivera

 

Ron Rivera: "My decision is being made on what we've seen for the last three weeks, or four weeks for that matter, and looking at where we are."

 

On Alex Smith being moved to No. 2 because he's been in the system and he wants to put the ball in the hands of someone who has been there, Ron Rivera explains.

 

Rivera said he has Alex Smith is No. 2 because he's been in Turner's system before. "We have three capable quarterbacks."

 

Ron Rivera said that Alex Smith is the backup over Dwayne Haskins because he's a veteran with experience in this system. Smith worked under Norv Turner in his second NFL season.

 

Ron Rivera on potentially being the coach to put Alex Smith back on the field: "There are doctors that were ready to put him back on the field as well."

 

What the team is hoping to do is develop a young quarterback. Rivera has consistently said that it's about Haskins getting more experience, playing some more football. Rivera wishes that he'd had the offseason and the preseason, and that he's not close to the 5,000 reps, yet.

 

Ron Rivera: "I wish Dwayne had had the offseason. I wish he had the OTAs and the minicamps. I wish he had the preseason games."

Rivera has repeatedly stated how it takes 5,000 reps to fully get and understand something. Rivera said he is not even close to that.

 

Rivera: It's not fair. I get it. The situation right now calls for us to do something different and hopefully he understands.

 

Ron Rivera said and acknowledges again that it's not fair that Dwayne Haskins didn't get the reps or time to develop, and he hopes Haskins gets it. Rivera said he gets it, being benched and Haskins can come out of this stronger or otherwise.

 

Ron Rivera on Haskins: "It's not fair. I get it. ... Believe me, I know how he feels to be sat down. How he comes out of it on the other end is up to him."

 

 

--------

 

That's from his own mouth. This is the man of integrity why can't it be what he says it is? Why must there be some hidden agenda that Haskins isn't putting in the work or isn't playing well enough? If you want to say he contradicted himself with the leaks then when did this start? Was it all after the Cleveland game because after Cleveland he clearly defended Haskins and it doesn't seem like Haskins is in the dog house. So is this off the field stuff based on one week of bad practices? 

 

Just let me know because its mind boggling to me. 

[Thinking Skins]

Having just listened to the press conference (11/9/2020), it seems like what Ron is saying (how much value do I put into that) isn't that Ron isn't studying. It seems to be more that he is not connecting the classroom to the field. This makes me think back to a TD he threw a pass to Inman and Ron was asked about it and Ron (instead of praising him) says that Haskins makes the wrong reads and reverses his reads. He still made the play but it was a mistake. Maybe those are the mistakes that he's still making that he and Scott know about but we as fans do not. 

[Conn]

8 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Discerning fans would remember the 2018 CFB season when the three best players in the country were Murray, Tagavailoa, and Haskins, and a **** hair separated their level of play.  And then those discerning fans would wonder why it is that Murray and Tagavailoa are now doing their thing in the NFL and appear to be the future of their teams, while the brain trust in DC demoted Haskins to third string after four games.

 

Other fans would of course also remember that Haskins was not considered nearly as good a prospect as either of the other two, and that has proven out both in his pedigree (falling to 16 with no one jumping in front of the one franchise everyone KNEW was taking him no matter what) and his performance so far. That can all be true AND he had no chance here, due to being Snyder’s guy and no one else’s, and acting the fool instead of working the way he’s expected to. Your blindness on this is silly at this point. And still considering Haskins on the same level of prospect as the other two (a freakish #1 overall pick who bumped out another top-10 pick at QB, and a guy who was still drafted significantly higher than Haskins despite a career-threatening hip injury) solely because of YOUR evaluation is getting ridiculous as well. He clearly has never, no matter the context, had it like those guys do and it’s not just the terrible situation. 

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Having just listened to the press conference (11/9/2020), it seems like what Ron is saying (how much value do I put into that) isn't that Ron isn't studying. It seems to be more that he is not connecting the classroom to the field. This makes me think back to a TD he threw a pass to Inman and Ron was asked about it and Ron (instead of praising him) says that Haskins makes the wrong reads and reverses his reads. He still made the play but it was a mistake. Maybe those are the mistakes that he's still making that he and Scott know about but we as fans do not. 

Is it that far fetched to figure that out to begin with? That the coaching staff sees these dudes in practice? Sees how teammates respond to them and how they respond to teammates?

 

Is that a revelation?

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Is it that far fetched to figure that out to begin with? That the coaching staff sees these dudes in practice? Sees how teammates respond to them and how they respond to teammates?

 

Is that a revelation?

Yes because its one thing to tell a parent "your child is not trying" and its another thing to say "he's coming to class but for some reason his grades are not improving". The solution to the first is just to get your child to try. The solution to the second is deeper because you need to figure out why its not connecting. Maybe he'll never get it. Maybe he needs a better teacher. Maybe he is depending too much on his arm. But I think the two scenarios are different and the story we've been told all along is that he's not trying (the rumor that he was slacking with practices since he became the starter) , which is what i disagreed with. 

 

I have not had a problem with what Scott has said about him making the same mistakes and the things they have said since the press conference on the 7th. I didn't like the 7th and I didn't like the rumors. I can even understand frustration from teammates though if my hypothesis is correct about him making the wrong reads, or (as Ron used to say in press conferences) him checking down too quickly. But those are entirely different things from him just not trying because he's already the starter or him being this bad teammate. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I can't understand the obsession with parsing Ron's words about why Dwayne is where he is.  I can't wrap my head around why it's so important to some guys to make this about everything other than his work habits.  None of us know why he looks so awful the majority of the time, but it's not a stretch to assume that whatever work he is putting in, isn't enough.

[Thinking Skins]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I can't understand the obsession with parsing Ron's words about why Dwayne is where he is.  I can't wrap my head around why it's so important to some guys to make this about everything other than his work habits.  None of us know why he looks so awful the majority of the time, but it's not a stretch to assume that whatever work he is putting in, isn't enough.

What makes a difference to me is why Ron flipped after Cleveland to after Baltimore. If Ron is this man of integrity, I want to understand why he would just defend Dwayne so much after Cleveland and then just dump him after Baltimore. Maybe you don't care and have always just thought of Dwayne as trash. I didn't. I like to support our players and understand what's going wrong. 

 

What's interesting to me is I'm wondering if this is just about his reads vs how much of it is other things like his mechanics or understanding of defenses or his eyes. 

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Yes because its one thing to tell a parent "your child is not trying" and its another thing to say "he's coming to class but for some reason his grades are not improving". The solution to the first is just to get your child to try. The solution to the second is deeper because you need to figure out why its not connecting. Maybe he'll never get it. Maybe he needs a better teacher. Maybe he is depending too much on his arm. But I think the two scenarios are different and the story we've been told all along is that he's not trying (the rumor that he was slacking with practices since he became the starter) , which is what i disagreed with. 

 

I have not had a problem with what Scott has said about him making the same mistakes and the things they have said since the press conference on the 7th. I didn't like the 7th and I didn't like the rumors. I can even understand frustration from teammates though if my hypothesis is correct about him making the wrong reads, or (as Ron used to say in press conferences) him checking down too quickly. But those are entirely different things from him just not trying because he's already the starter or him being this bad teammate. 

 

When did Rivera say he wasn't trying?

 

You're making this stuff up because you want to believe Haskins can develop.

 

Look, I won't EVER be a guy who ever counts another player out permanently. I can't do it. As a coach, it's not in me to believe a guy can't ever turn things around. Some are different and do that. I won't.

 

Haskins can develop... The question is can it be here? Can it be in time for him to have a career in the NFL?

 

You don't need to make things up that the coach said to get that point across. Rivera never once said Haskins wasn't trying. YOU read into his words.

Just now, Thinking Skins said:

What makes a difference to me is why Ron flipped after Cleveland to after Baltimore. If Ron is this man of integrity, I want to understand why he would just defend Dwayne so much after Cleveland and then just dump him after Baltimore. Maybe you don't care and have always just thought of Dwayne as trash. I didn't. I like to support our players and understand what's going wrong. 

 

What's interesting to me is I'm wondering if this is just about his reads vs how much of it is other things like his mechanics or understanding of defenses or his eyes. 

 

I seem to remember a tweet. Don't you? Huh. 

[Thinking Skins]

Just now, KDawg said:

When did Rivera say he wasn't trying?

 

That's been the rumor mill since he was benched and it was so understood that people were just hating him because of it and calling me a humper because I didn't buy it. That's been my whole objection to the rumor mill in the first place. 

[JSSkinz]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

I want to understand why he would just defend Dwayne so much after Cleveland and then just dump him after Baltimore.

One thing I've heard Ron consistently say about the way he deals with players is that if they buy in and follow the process he will take all the bullets, if not your on your own.

 

I'm guessing Dwayne did something that put him on the outside looking in or Ron wouldn't have turned his back on him.

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

That's been the rumor mill since he was benched and it was so understood that people were just hating him because of it and calling me a humper because I didn't buy it. That's been my whole objection to the rumor mill in the first place. 

 

You're attributing a rumor to Rivera... Rumors that you don't buy into. I don't understand your platform. 

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I'm guessing Dwayne did something that put him on the outside looking in or Ron wouldn't have turned his back on him.

My only guess would be the stats / defending his play against Baltimore. If indeed he was making the wrong reads or checking down too fast or not taking enough risks and unwilling to admit that this was the case or maybe Haskins thought of it as a damned if he does and damned if he doesn't (Cleveland game being risky vs Baltimore game being safe) and that could easily be the type of altercation that this stems from. 

[Thinking Skins]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

You're attributing a rumor to Rivera... Rumors that you don't buy into. I don't understand your platform. 

Because that's what everybody has been saying is the reason that Ron benched Rivera. Look at the Galdi quote that @Skinsinparadise quoted earlier. Its directly implying that he's not trying and if he's still not trying then he shouldn't be rewarded for not trying by being gifted the starting job. At least that's what I got from it. And its what has frustrated me since the benching. 

 

That said, I can understand if Turner / Ron value things differently than me. So while I was putting so much on Haskins not turning the ball over, there is something to be said about taking chances and running the play as called and not just checking down immediately (all things that have been talked about in press conferences, film breakdowns, and criticisms) especially if those are the very things they tried to work on with Haskins. 

 

All I've wanted is clarification from Rivera's stance. i didn't believe that it was simply him not trying as I understood the rumors to be saying. If you didn't hear the rumors that way then more power to you.

 

Maybe I wasn't trying hard enough. 

[DJHJR86]

 

 

I don't know what else you want Rivera to say.  The dude has poor work habits and is immature.  

[RichmondRedskin88]

I hope if indeed Ron plans on hitching himself to Haskins in the coming seasons he knows what he’s doing. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

14 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

 

I don't know what else you want Rivera to say.  The dude has poor work habits and is immature.  

 

Yeah I just heard this discussed on the radio.  

 

Ron, Scott Turner, and Doug made some not so veiled comments about what they need to see from Haskins early this year and it centered on work ethic.  This is obviously him doubling down on it again.

 

It isn't hard to tell that they want to see a sea change from Haskins as to his preperation.  and if they see that he might get another chance and if not adios. 

[KDawg]

For the record, that's still not saying Haskins isn't trying.

 

It's that he isn't doing everything he can to be successful, and while he is putting in effort, he isn't aware of how much of a time commitment it is to give it your all.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

42 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

What makes a difference to me is why Ron flipped after Cleveland to after Baltimore. If Ron is this man of integrity, I want to understand why he would just defend Dwayne so much after Cleveland and then just dump him after Baltimore. Maybe you don't care and have always just thought of Dwayne as trash. I didn't. I like to support our players and understand what's going wrong. 

 

What's interesting to me is I'm wondering if this is just about his reads vs how much of it is other things like his mechanics or understanding of defenses or his eyes. 

It's not that I've always thought Dwayne was trash.  I was never in love with him or had great belief he was going to be really good, but was fine with him playing this year.

 

I just don't think you are going to come away with much listening to what Ron has to say, either good or bad.  I put a lot more stock into what I see, which was Dwayne struggling mightily on the field and being knocked from 1st to 3rd string.  That's a lot more telling than anything Ron is going to disclose.

 

EDIT:

 

I digress, perhaps you can learn a lot from Ron's nice way of saying Dwayne's just not doing enough to make himself successful.

[Voice_of_Reason]

@Thinking Skins I've written before what I think happened based on the reporting.  And when it comes to Haskins, one of the reporters I listen to most is Keim, because Keim is an Ohio State guy, was really high on Haskins, and I think knows him a little bit.  Even Keim said it's absolutely clear from everybody he's talked to Haskins just hasn't been doing all the things you need to do to be successful as a starting QB in the NFL.  Even in his last podcast, he reiterated it over and over, saying he's heard from numerous players they were fine with the benching, and Haskins was just not doing all the things he needed to do.  He even said he heard from other players they would welcome Haskins back as a starter IF he started doing the things he needed to do. 

 

That doesn't mean he wasn't trying.  It means he wasn't doing everything he needed to, which includes on field work, off field work, studying, watching film, learning from mistakes, etc.  He just wasn't progressing.

 

I've also said this before: Rivera knew nothing more on August first about Haskins as he did on January 1st.  He never had him in practice, he never got to see him study, nothing.  So, the guess is Rivera basically handed Haskins the starting job when Camp started, and they put absolutely everything into developing Haskins over the course of the next 11 weeks.  I also speculated if Haskins wasn't progressing, and they wanted to make a change after camp, it probably wasn't fair to Kyle Allen at that point because he hadn't been given the same reps, so they had to watch the thing play out a bit.

 

The line of demarcation to me was somewhere in the Arizona game.  Because that's when you could see Ron not have faith in Haskins by not calling TOs to try and extend the game.  It happened again in Cleveland.

 

There was some catalyst which took place after the Cleveland game.  In the 20 hours between Ron's post-game presser and his Monday presser, something happened.  It could just be he watched the film, and just had it.  It could have been the bragging about the fantasy stats, or it could have been something else.  But SOMETHING happened in those 20 hours which pissed Ron off, and then it was just a matter of time before Haskins was going to be benched.

 

Your question about why he was talking up Haskins and then turned on a dime is a very good one.  He has said he was trying to build up Haskins both internally and externally.  The fact is, he was in a pickle.  Because he couldn't really come out and say "Haskins has a short leash, he has to perform every week or else" because you really don't want to have your starting QB looking over his shoulder, that's typically not a good situation.  So, he stayed positive, and backed Haskins until he didn't, at least publicly.

 

Now, here's the thing, Rivera hasn't lost the team.  That's clear.  The team is playing hard, and there doesn't seem to be any ill-will towards him based on this, or any other decision.  I've said this also, while his message externally might sound flip-floppy, his message internally seems to be very consistent.  Which, in the end, is all that really matters.

 

Final point: The offense has looked pretty dramatically different the last 3 weeks with Kyle Allen/Alex Smith at QB than it did with Haskins at QB.  Clearly Scott Turner didn't have faith in Haskins to open the playbook, or put too much on him.  He hasn't had that same issue with either of the other two guys.  That's about as much evidence you need that Haskins is farther behind than we might have believed. 

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Yeah I just heard this discussed on the radio.  

 

Ron, Scott Turner, and Doug made some not so veiled comments about what they need to see from Haskins early this year and it centered on work ethic.  This is obviously him doubling down on it again.

 

It isn't hard to tell that they want to see a sea change from Haskins as to his preperation.  and if they see that he might get another chance and if not adios. 

Yeah, and honestly, if they haven't seen it yet after being busted down to third string, it's probably too late.  So whatever is going to happen probably already has, we just don't know it yet.  

 

It's a pity, we talked in the off-season about Snyder possibly lucking into being right for the first time in 20 years.  Gotta say that conversation hasn't aged well...

[Going Commando]

48 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Other fans would of course also remember that Haskins was not considered nearly as good a prospect as either of the other two, and that has proven out both in his pedigree (falling to 16 with no one jumping in front of the one franchise everyone KNEW was taking him no matter what) and his performance so far. That can all be true AND he had no chance here, due to being Snyder’s guy and no one else’s, and acting the fool instead of working the way he’s expected to. Your blindness on this is silly at this point. And still considering Haskins on the same level of prospect as the other two (a freakish #1 overall pick who bumped out another top-10 pick at QB, and a guy who was still drafted significantly higher than Haskins despite a career-threatening hip injury) solely because of YOUR evaluation is getting ridiculous as well. He clearly has never, no matter the context, had it like those guys do and it’s not just the terrible situation. 

 

What's silly to me is people who I know never watched a minute of his college career trying to tell me my evaluation of him as a prospect, made long before we drafted him, is wrong because he didn't pan out for this piece of **** team.  When a franchise and this coaching staff in particular can display such breathtaking incompetence with the way they handle their QBs over and over again and people will still carry water for them and blame the player for the failure.  When you say he never had it like Tua or Kyler no matter the context, then I know you didn't watch them in 2018.  If you had, you would know that's not true.  What Tua and Murray are doing now is what we could have had with Haskins if this franchise didn't completely suck.  It's hard to accept.  This awful coaching staff and front office threw that away (and an early fifth round pick) for Kyle Allen so our unqualified offensive coordinator could get his safety blanket.

[FrFan]

No

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

What's silly to me is people who I know never watched a minute of his college career trying to tell me my evaluation of him as a prospect, made long before we drafted him, is wrong because he didn't pan out for this piece of **** team.  When a franchise and this coaching staff in particular can display such breathtaking incompetence with the way they handle their QBs over and over again and people will still carry water for them and blame the player for the failure.  When you say he never had it like Tua or Kyler no matter the context, then I know you didn't watch them in 2018.  If you had, you would know that's not true.  What Tua and Murray are doing now is what we could have had with Haskins if this franchise didn't completely suck.  It's hard to accept.  This awful coaching staff and front office threw that away (and an early fifth round pick) for Kyle Allen so our unqualified offensive coordinator could get his safety blanket.

 

Except I did. And you are bitter you have missed on Haskins so far. It's that easy, steve.

[evmiii]

Sometimes it’s more about working smarter and not harder.  Maybe DH needs to learn how to work more effectively and more productively.  Sometimes you need to learn how to study before your studying is effective.  If this is the case, watching Alex can be greatly beneficial.  If it simply a case of unwillingness to put in the effort he is doomed to fail.  Without being in the building we can’t know which and trying to cryptically decipher Ron speak will leave you chasing your tail.  Time will tell.