FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[KDawg]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Discerning fans would remember the 2018 CFB season when the three best players in the country were Murray, Tagavailoa, and Haskins, and a **** hair separated their level of play.  And then those discerning fans would wonder why it is that Murray and Tagavailoa are now doing their thing in the NFL and appear to be the future of their teams, while the brain trust in DC demoted Haskins to third string after four games.

 

The way this staff puked all over themselves in their handling of the QB situation would be comical if it had happened to some other team.  Instead its just contemptible.  This franchise deserves nothing but contempt.

Discerning fans would also realize that how Haskins was playing versus Tua and Murray was different. And that character matters.

[Thinking Skins]

We are 1-3 with Haskins and 1-3 without Haskins. What I've been saying the whole season is that this is a young team and you saw that yesterday with the Gibson fumble, the Wright muffed punt, the JMC fall down on the first int. These are youth mistaskes that shouldn't go against Allen or Smith, the same way that I don't like a lot of the mistakes from the 1-3 start going against Haskins. People are making mistakes and we are losing games because of it. Just because Haskins doesn't have the QBR that makes him look like an all pro doesn't mean he's the reason we aren't winning. People were even saying that he was the reason that our defense was bad. He was made the excuse for our losing and fans acted like replacing him would make the offense so much better. 

 

Sorry, we're not that good. Its honestly refreshing to see this because people can't blame these last 3 losses on Haskins (unless you want to say he's not inspiring his teammates by sitting on the bench sulking). 

 

Well lets see how badly Smith has to play before Ron finally admits that Haskins is the guy who should be playing. 

[Skinsinparadise]

49 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 Just because Haskins doesn't have the QBR that makes him look like an all pro doesn't mean he's the reason we aren't winning. People were even saying that he was the reason that our defense was bad. He was made the excuse for our losing and fans acted like replacing him would make the offense so much better. 

 

 

I think most people here don't think much of Haskins for 2 reasons and winning or not winning isn't one of them.

 

A.  We don't think he's very good.  I felt that way before the draft, too.  And I explained why in detail.  The dude IMO is just a guy.  I felt the same way about Daniel Jones.  Still do. 

 

B.  We don't think all of the hits on his intangibles are part of some odd made up masterminded conspiracy (considering they even come outside of the WFT).  And one of the classiest coaches in the NFL reputation wise has become an odd mean spirited dude overnight.   We believe the 50 million layers of smoke on the intangibles narrative.   Hyperbole on my end to make a point. 😀

 

Tua was billed with intangibles through the roof.  I recall posting about it on the draft threat.  Murray is a mega talent.  Haskins is not IMO a mega talent or an intangibles guy.   Dudes like them are flashing fast. Even Burrow and Herbert are flashing fast.  It's not some slow burn give them years to show it exercise.  IMO its not because the Dolphins are just loaded with talent and every team more or less is brimming with talent versus our team.  It's because they are better QBs.  Simple as that. 

 

If Haskins is all that.  We likely will have a chance to see it with another team.  I don't buy that one team just shoots down a QB for a life and they never recover.  If Haskins is like Tannehill, where he showcases what he's got it elsewhere, we likely will see it.  I'd bet against it.  But you never know.   The reason why I equate Haskins to Keenum (though their strengths and weaknesses are quite different) is that's where I see his career going.  His footwork and accuracy IMO will unlikely ever be consistent where he will become a good QB.  But like most medicore QBs, they have flashes.  Mediocrity is rarely just a straight line of so so.   It's usually an up game, down game, so so game.  Keenum is somewhat like that.  Haskins I think will be of a similar ilk.  

 

I've mentioned this on the thread before.  Watching the dude throw a zillion balls in pratice it wasn't hard to see why his accuracy in the NFL is mostly confined to a particular space on the field and he's erratic at best outside of his sweet spot.   His accuracy mostly looked poor.  One day it was mediocre.  A couple days he was atrocious.   And one day he was on fire.  I think that's the type of QB he will become. 

 

I strongly disagree with those here who see him as a franchise QB.  I also strongly disagree with those who see him as an outright bust but I do agree with them about moving on from him.  I see him going down as a Keenum, Ramsey, Campbell type.  A bottom of the league/low end starter or high end backup.   But that's obviuosly just a guess on my end.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall Haskins ever being in the same echelon as Murray or Tua as a pro prospect.  

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And one of the classiest coaches in the NFL reputation wise has become an odd mean spirited dude overnight.  

Two separate coaching staffs have said publically that he was benched for losing. Gruden said he needs to win now and that he wouldn't have a job if he didn't make the playoffs. Rivera went with the winning the weak division stuff. I don't care how classy a coach is, that's putting wins and losses on a QB. 

 

I don't care if Haskins has 'it'. I don't even know what 'it' is, or if 'it' exists. Heck I don't think for a second that Nick Foles has 'it' but he does have a Super Bowl MVP in his trophie room and a statue in Philadelphia. I bet that's a lot nicer than having 'it'. 

 

There are a lot of reasons why QBs fail in the NFL and I'm not going to proclaim Haskins a bust or a future success. But we are gaining nothing with Smith starting. Whatever you feel about Haskins as a QB, why not let him play it out and see for ourselevs. Look at dude in Dallas (Garrett Gilbert). He was nothing, a career college backup who threw 4 ints in his only big game. Then he was the star of a defunt league. And he comes in and almost beats the undefeated Steelers. 

 

Its ok because no matter what I say or what else is said in this thread, we're going to see Haskins again because thats the way this season is going. Either Alex will just continue to look bad and not win, or Ron will cave to the media pressure and continued questions about why they're playing Smith or Ron himself will ask if Haskins can do better. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Discerning fans would also realize that how Haskins was playing versus Tua and Murray was different. And that character matters.

 

I am in Florida, I read a lot about the Dolphins.  Tua was supposedly burning it up in practice.  And like I said, he's known for being a maniac as to his work habits.

 

Haskins from what some said wasn't that hot in practice and wasn't working like a maniac.  So the situations couldn't be more apples to oranges. 

 

 

 

[DJHJR86]

I am 99.9% certain that Dwayne Haskins is a bust, but it is criminal to start Alex Smith at this point.  If you want to send a message to Dwayne, start Steven Montez and keep him as the backup.  Alex Smith should never start another game for this team.  

[Thinking Skins]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall Haskins ever being in the same echelon as Murray or Tua as a pro prospect.  

They were. They were all three chasing the Heisman and all would talk with each other throughout the season. 

 

https://www.giants.com/news/murray-vs-haskins-greg-cosell-breaks-down-qb-s

[quote]

According to draft experts, two names have emerged at the top -- Ohio State's Dwayne Haskins and Oklahoma's Kyler Murray. Opinions certainly vary among the many analysts who break down prospects for a living. NFL.com's Bucky Brooks gives the edge to Haskins, while his colleague Daniel Jeremiah likes Murray, the 2018 Heisman Trophy Winner. CBS Sports' Chris Trapasso has Murray ranked higher in his list of the Top 100 prospects, while The Draft Network has Haskins a full 15 spots higher in its Top 100 ranking.

Helping sort through the madness is longtime NFL analyst Greg Cosell, who has worked with NFL Films for almost 40 years and is the nephew of iconic broadcaster Howard Cosell. Greg Cosell joined the set of Big "Blue Kickoff Live" on Wednesday at the combine to break down each of the top two quarterback prospects.

"They have to be part of different offensive approaches," Cosell said. "So, you're not comparing apples to apples. Murray, to me, becomes a spread quarterback where there's a lot of play-action, where he's in the shotgun, where there's run-pass options. You're giving him the opportunity to run a spread game. Haskins, to me, is a prototypical drop-back pocket passer. He obviously played in the shotgun in college, but he's a pocket player."

[/quote]

 

Haskins being a legit college QB is not some thing we made up because we got him here. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

They were. They were all three chasing the Heisman and all would talk with each other throughout the season. 

I'm aware he was chasing the Heisman.  He just never appeared to be a lock for pro success like the other two.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

They were. They were all three chasing the Heisman and all would talk with each other throughout the season. 

 

https://www.giants.com/news/murray-vs-haskins-greg-cosell-breaks-down-qb-s

[quote]

According to draft experts, two names have emerged at the top -- Ohio State's Dwayne Haskins and Oklahoma's Kyler Murray. Opinions certainly vary among the many analysts who break down prospects for a living. NFL.com's Bucky Brooks gives the edge to Haskins, while his colleague Daniel Jeremiah likes Murray, the 2018 Heisman Trophy Winner. CBS Sports' Chris Trapasso has Murray ranked higher in his list of the Top 100 prospects, while The Draft Network has Haskins a full 15 spots higher in its Top 100 ranking.

Helping sort through the madness is longtime NFL analyst Greg Cosell, who has worked with NFL Films for almost 40 years and is the nephew of iconic broadcaster Howard Cosell. Greg Cosell joined the set of Big "Blue Kickoff Live" on Wednesday at the combine to break down each of the top two quarterback prospects.

"They have to be part of different offensive approaches," Cosell said. "So, you're not comparing apples to apples. Murray, to me, becomes a spread quarterback where there's a lot of play-action, where he's in the shotgun, where there's run-pass options. You're giving him the opportunity to run a spread game. Haskins, to me, is a prototypical drop-back pocket passer. He obviously played in the shotgun in college, but he's a pocket player."

[/quote]

 

Haskins being a legit college QB is not some thing we made up because we got him here. 

Tim Tebow was an elite college QB, too.

[Thinking Skins]

Just now, KDawg said:

Tim Tebow was an elite college QB, too.

And some people thought he would be good in the pros. Hindsight is 20/20. the future is not. It doesn't mean that Tebow wasn't drafted in the first round because he was 25th overall. 

[Leonard Washington]

4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

I am 99.9% certain that Dwayne Haskins is a bust, but it is criminal to start Alex Smith at this point.  If you want to send a message to Dwayne, start Steven Montez and keep him as the backup.  Alex Smith should never start another game for this team.  

What is the message to Dwayne?

 

———

After Smith loses the next game or two, Dwayne should start the rest of the season. 

[DJHJR86]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

He just never appeared to be a lock for pro success like the other two.

 

He really wasn't.  Everyone said he was going to be a project coming out in the draft and a few people pointed out that his stats were inflated based off of the talent he had at wide receiver.  

2 minutes ago, Leonard Washington said:

What is the message to Dwayne?

 

That you are not going to get the starting job back because the starter was injured and the other backup is terrible.  

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Two separate coaching staffs have said publically that he was benched for losing. Gruden said he needs to win now and that he wouldn't have a job if he didn't make the playoffs. Rivera went with the winning the weak division stuff. I don't care how classy a coach is, that's putting wins and losses on a QB. 

 

They've said more than just that.  Rivera has said he's raw.  By the way that was the same thing Jay said about RG3 (which some beat reporters translated at the time to Jay meaning he's not very good).   Turner has said Haskins is repeating the same mistakes.  We've heard leak after leak from both coaching staffs and the FO that Haskins work ethic and maturity isn't up to snuff.

 

If you think they like the dude's intangibles and love his talent but just think they can't win with the dude yet -- that's all.  You never know but if so then I'd relax since that would mean they believe in him as the long term answer.  But I suspect you will be dissapointed when you likely learn there is something to the leaks.  Coaches rarely level a player publicly.  It usually comes out in leaks.  Someone brought up the Rosen story about his work ethic.  That story didn't come directly from the coach. It was leaked. 

 

6 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

There are a lot of reasons why QBs fail in the NFL and I'm not going to proclaim Haskins a bust or a future success. But we are gaining nothing with Smith starting. Whatever you feel about Haskins as a QB, why not let him play it out and see for ourselevs. Look at dude in Dallas (Garrett Gilbert). He was nothing, a career college backup who threw 4 ints in his only big game. Then he was the star of a defunt league. And he comes in and almost beats the undefeated Steelers. 

 

 

Alex is a professional/set a good example to the team type.  If Haskins turns the corner and displays what they want to see of him as a professional, then I agree with you.  If not I agree with Galdi's point below.  And Galdi was a huge Haskins guy until he read the stories about him.

 

I think there are two main reasons why the debate on this thread can get explosive at times.

 

A.  Some think Haskins (granted a minority) is a ball of talent.  Some here don't.  So our patience levels are dramatically different. 

 

B.  Some think Haskins' benching is a sign of bad culture remaining.  While some here think Haskins' benching is a sign of moving away from bad culture and by extension means good culture.

 

So we are coming it it from widly different points of view.  If I though Haskins had Murray kind of talent and all the stories about Haskins intangibles were made up and Rivera has an odd grudge against Haskins and if I felt Dan has every right to pick whatever QB he chooses in the draft regardless of what his scouts think and there is nothing dysfunctional about that -- then I'd be outraged about this, too.  But I (among others) am 100% on the opposite side of the spectrum on those points. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

14 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

And some people thought he would be good in the pros. Hindsight is 20/20. the future is not. It doesn't mean that Tebow wasn't drafted in the first round because he was 25th overall. 

And those people were wrong.

[Thinking Skins]

All I can say is we will see. I don't believe the stuff on his work ethic and until I'm given more evidence to the contrary I'm not on that boat. He has shown me too much evidence to the contrary and the statements that the coaching staff, Turner particularly about his knowledge of the offense and the time he put into it. 

 

Galdi is saying "he was clearly" but its not clearly. He was put behind Allen because of how valuable "more experience in the system is", says Ron and Smith who is a veteran who has playoff experience and has won in this league, not cut. I think I've said in this thread that it would be different if he was put behind Montez and Ron said that he's not behind Montez, that Haskins will be number 2 next week. So we will see when he eventually gets his time. 

 

Even right now everybody is basically calling Ron a liar (mr nobleman) because last week (JUST LAST WEEK) Ron said that Haskins's time with this team is not done, but now people are saying that it is. 

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

And those people were wrong.

But what does that have to do with Haskins? Some said Haskins would be a good pro, some said that he wouldn't. The future is not written unless you've got some timestream in your pocket or a Delorian that you're hiding in your garage. 

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

All I can say is we will see. I don't believe the stuff on his work ethic and until I'm given more evidence to the contrary I'm not on that boat. He has shown me too much evidence to the contrary and the statements that the coaching staff, Turner particularly about his knowledge of the offense and the time he put into it. 

 

Galdi is saying "he was clearly" but its not clearly. He was put behind Allen because of how valuable "more experience in the system is", says Ron and Smith who is a veteran who has playoff experience and has won in this league, not cut. I think I've said in this thread that it would be different if he was put behind Montez and Ron said that he's not behind Montez, that Haskins will be number 2 next week. So we will see when he eventually gets his time. 

 

Even right now everybody is basically calling Ron a liar (mr nobleman) because last week (JUST LAST WEEK) Ron said that Haskins's time with this team is not done, but now people are saying that it is. 

But what does that have to do with Haskins? Some said Haskins would be a good pro, some said that he wouldn't. The future is not written unless you've got some timestream in your pocket or a Delorian that you're hiding in your garage. 

It has everything to do with Haskins. People can believe you’re going to be a good pro but that doesn’t mean squat.

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

They were. They were all three chasing the Heisman and all would talk with each other throughout the season. 

 

https://www.giants.com/news/murray-vs-haskins-greg-cosell-breaks-down-qb-s

[quote]

According to draft experts, two names have emerged at the top -- Ohio State's Dwayne Haskins and Oklahoma's Kyler Murray....

 

Haskins being a legit college QB is not some thing we made up because we got him here. 

 

Many mock drafters liked Haskins, I never challenged that.  You want me to post the draft geeks take on Brady Quinn and the series of other busts they've touted?  They tend to like really all the big name QBs coming out of college.  I watch players and make my own decisions about them versus reading what they think.  But I am interested for personal amusement.

 

But lets pretend the Mel Kiper, Cosell's, etc are gospel.  Haskins had his detractors in that mix.  And heck even the guy you cited to make your point, actualy liked Rosen over Haskins.There was a narrative about Haskins that there was a difference between what teams thought of him versus most draft geeks.  The first dude I quote below is Nagy who knows college ball and is connected.  He helps run the Senior bowl.  He loved McLaurin for example.  He's typically pollyana about college players. 

 

 

https://withthefirstpick.com/2019/04/11/dwayne-haskins-2019-nfl-draft-first-round-stock-down/

He’s dropping because the media narrative pumped him too high in the first place,” Nagy said. “Media pumped him too high. The league doesn’t value him nearly as high. A couple media members pushed him. That’s all I can tell you. Feel bad for the player.”

Yikes. That doesn’t sound good.

Nagy’s opinion needs to be listened to. Carefully. He’s as tuned-in as any NFL draft analyst in the country right now largely because of the work he did at the Senior Bowl speaking with scouts and front-office executives. Plus, as a former scout in the league, he has a lot of connections that are legitimate, unlike some in the industry who disguise educated guesses with the word ‘source.’

This isn’t to say Nagy knows what team’s draft boards look like or that he knows exactly where Haskins ranks in any war room. But he certainly has a good grasp of what his former colleagues think of him; those former colleagues are the ones filing the scouting reports.

There’s still a very good chance Haskins will be a first-round pick. In fact, there’s no reason to believe he won’t be a top-20 pick. His tape is strong, his production is other-worldly, and his upside as a young potential franchise quarterback should keep him in the first round.

But he’s trending in the wrong direction at the worst possible time, and that usually results in draft-day disappointment.

 

 

https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/2020-02-28-colin-cowherd-redskins-to-give-up-on-dwayne-haskins-draft-tua-tagovailoa/

“Mel Kiper said something yesterday that was obvious... He said if Washington can pick Tua number two, then of course you take him. He’s better than Dwayne Haskins, nobody has any questions about that, and Mel Kiper is right. Tua IS better than Dwayne Haskins at everything except size. He’s more accurate, he’s more mature, he’s got more productivity, he’s got more starts, he’s a better leader, and he’s more mobile.

 

https://247sports.com/college/ohio-state/Article/Ohio-State-Buckeyes-football-Bleacher-Report-Dwayne-Haskins-overrated-draft-prospect-129184831/

 Matt Miller of Bleacher Report recently published an article in which he talked to 10 NFL personnel, including scouts, coaches, general managers and executives, and asked them for five overrated prospects by the media or overrated by their peers in football in the upcoming NFL Draft. Two unnamed scouts came back to Miller with Haskins as their overrated draft prospect.

Here is what these NFL scouts told Miller about the former Ohio State quarterback

 

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/Dwayne-Haskins-NFL-Draft-2019-stock-Ohio-State-Buckeyes-slips-reaction-130994189/#130994189_2

There's even talk of Haskins falling in the draft due to Arizona Cardinals quarterback Josh Rosen's possible availability if the franchise takes Kyler Murray with its first pick. Available quarterbacks on draft night could create a domino effect for Haskins, pushing him further into the first round.

“I would rather have Rosen than Haskins. He’s a cleaner thrower of the football,” NFL Films senior producer Greg Cosell told The New York Daily News. “They’re both good throwers, and in some ways they’re similar players in how they have to be used in an offense, because they’re both pocket QBs. But if I’m the Giants and I could give up a two and get Rosen, I would absolutely do it. Because then in my view you’d be set at QB and you could use picks six and 17 on something else.”

 

 

“I would rank Rosen a little ahead of Haskins,” former NFL QB Brady Quinn of Fox Sports said. “I would have put Haskins at No. 4 in last year’s class: Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Rosen, Josh Allen/Haskins/Murray, Lamar Jackson.”

 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2830603-if-nfl-teams-like-dwayne-haskins-why-is-he-tumbling-down-draft-boards

After speaking to a half-dozen front-office executives and coaches, some answers are becoming clear.

"Can he move enough when [the] pocket changes?" one NFC coach asked in a text. "Great kid! Will learn. Agility concerns and limited exposure [with] down-the-field throws."

This is one of the smartest coaches (and people) I've ever known. If he is expressing these concerns, then my guess is this is an emerging—or already established—leaguewide belief about Haskins.

"I like him a lot," the coach added. "He'll learn but will take time. Best place would be a [year] or two behind a veteran starter. A good comparison would be Jacoby Brissett. I loved Brissett. I'm a little concerned about Haskins."

Another comparison floated my way was Byron Leftwich, the former Jaguars quarterback who is now the offensive coordinator with the Buccaneers.

Nothing wrong with becoming the next Leftwich, or Brissett, but patience isn't an abundant resource in the NFL anymore. Teams aren't going to want to take several years to groom Haskins if they take him in the top 10. They're going to want more immediate production. This might explain the alleged slide.

Other NFL sources worry it may take years for Haskins to develop the mechanics and footwork needed to perform the core task of the quarterback game: connecting accurately on deep passes.

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Many mock drafters liked Haskins, I never challenged that.  You want me to post the draft geeks take on Brady Quinn and the series of other busts they've touted?  They tend to like really all the big name QBs coming out of college.  I watch players and make my own decisions about them versus reading what they think.  But I am interested for personal amusement.

 

But lets pretend the Mel Kiper, Cosell's, etc are gospel.  Haskins had his detractors in that mix.  And heck even the guy you cited to make your point, actualy liked Rosen over Haskins.

 

There was a narrative about Haskins that there was a difference between what teams thought of him versus nost draft geeks. 

This is not (in my opinion) a question of how many supporters and detractors that Haskins had. Its a statement of him being worthy of a first round pick. People say that nobody had him as a first round grade and it was just Snyder's meddling. Cosell is just a big name who said it. There were people who were saying he was the best QB in the draft. Now we can look back at 2012 and probably find those same remarks about Russell Wilson. It doens't mean that teams had him on their first round list, but it also doesn't mean that teams don't think he has the talent. 

 

And if you look at the list you gave (you gave several but one stands out to me)

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

“I would rank Rosen a little ahead of Haskins,” former NFL QB Brady Quinn of Fox Sports said. “I would have put Haskins at No. 4 in last year’s class: Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Rosen, Josh Allen/Haskins/Murray, Lamar Jackson.”

 

This list has the top three consisting of two busts and another meh guy. Then the 4th tier are Josh Allen, Murray and Jackson. Haskins is in THAT group. Yeah, thats more to my liking. 

[KDawg]

I’m not sure what you’re arguing. Do you honestly think Haskins is in the same stratosphere as those guys mechanically? Reads wise?

 

I’m not sure anyone did.

 

Most pointed to Haskins as a project guy who had a very high ceiling. 
 

Not as a guy ready to roll.

[ggarriso]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall Haskins ever being in the same echelon as Murray or Tua as a pro prospect.  

only in the mind of head scout Daniel Snyder, everyone else knew he had massive bust potential and mental issues

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Thinking Skins said:

This is not (in my opinion) a question of how many supporters and detractors that Haskins had. Its a statement of him being worthy of a first round pick. People say that nobody had him as a first round grade and it was just Snyder's meddling. Cosell is just a big name who said it. There were people who were saying he was the best QB in the draft. Now we can look back at 2012 and probably find those same remarks about Russell Wilson. It doens't mean that teams had him on their first round list, but it also doesn't mean that teams don't think he has the talent. 

 

And if you look at the list you gave (you gave several but one stands out to me)

This list has the top three consisting of two busts and another meh guy. Then the 4th tier are Josh Allen, Murray and Jackson. Haskins is in THAT group. Yeah, thats more to my liking. 

 

Mock drafters don't set the boards for the NFL.  When you ask scouts about the Kiper types they laugh.  

 

@volsmet who has relatives who are in the personnel business throughout the NFL did a really good and detailed assessment before the draft about why Haskins doesn't have it, in his view.  it was way better than anything I read from any draft geek at the time.  He pushed me to watch Haskins and for me to make up my own mind about him which i did.

 

Yet, if we are going to elevate draft geeks OK but some of them actually didn't like Haskins.  He wasn't universally loved by all.  But regardless, who cares?  Your point seems to be Haskins wasn't just some weird dark horse choice for Dan considering he had some hype with media draft geek types.  Well, yeah, i agree with it from that angle.   if the angle is Dan goes with hyped prospects and there is some media angle behind it -- i am with you.  Dan's draft crushes tend to be big names.  So what?  If all we need to do is read some mock drafts and they had that much value why even bother with a scouting staff at all?  I am with you that Dan can read mock draft and notice which players got hype. 

 

You've criticized Dan before.  But if your stance is Dan was fine on this one and we need to have Dan's back if we share the love on the same prospect -- then you have to embrace him to keep doing it otherwise IMO it comes off hypocritical.  You either endorse Dan's involvement with personnel or you don't IMO.  It's not an I endorse it when I agree with him.  if you open up that Pandora's Box then you are flat out endorsing the idea that heck yeah Dan can pick players in this draft.  

 

Yeah i got no doubt Dan can play the average fan as to drafting and pick a big name player that the draft geeks like.  If the conversation with Dan and Kyle Smith for example is look:  "Kyle I know you think you are a smart dude but I watched Path to the Draft last night and that dude Bucky Brooks loves Haskins.   And heck Shawn Springs called me and said he's a star.  So you got to trust me on this Kyle.  This time Kyle you are wrong.  I am right."  Sure, why not i can see Dan doing that.   But its not healthy IMO. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/daniel-snyder-washington-redskins-owner-still-struggles-to-find-formula-for-success/2014/01/04/5d86bfa4-74a4-11e3-bc6b-712d770c3715_story.html

 

A former member of the Redskins’ personnel department said Snyder’s involvement with the football operation typically outmatches his football expertise.“He can’t ever get it right because he wants to be involved in it all,” he said. “He wants to have input in everything.”

Several employees said that while Snyder likes to ask questions, he does not always seem receptive to advice. Many relationships with other NFL teams are strained, they say, and he has insulated himself from pushback and dissenting opinions.

 

Snyder played a much more active role in the draft process, even traveling at times with his personnel officials to scout college players. In 2007, he had his heart set on drafting quarterback Brady Quinn out of Notre Dame. “It took a week or so to convince him that we shouldn’t do that,” one former staffer said. “Then he wanted Teddy Ginn,” an Ohio State wide receiver. Quinn has played for five teams in seven seasons, while Ginn has started just five games in the past four years.

 

I

 

 

 

[profusion]

If Ron is trying to build a new culture, he wouldn't re-elevate the kid with the questionable work ethic over the respected vet who fought back from an injury that could have killed him.

 

If Haskins does a 180 on attitude and hard work, then I can see Ron giving him another chance later this season.

[CobraCommander]

Only way I see Dwayne getting back on the field is if Smith gets hurt, which is a distinct possibility.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

All I can say is we will see. I don't believe the stuff on his work ethic and until I'm given more evidence to the contrary I'm not on that boat. He has shown me too much evidence to the contrary and the statements that the coaching staff, Turner particularly about his knowledge of the offense and the time he put into it.  

You’ve watched him play and find the work ethic stuff hard to believe?

 

What about his play, mechanics, etc. leads you to believe the work ethic stuff is a stretch?

 

What is this “too much evidence to the contrary” you speak of?

 

Feels like we watched, read, and heard about a totally different guy.