FootballZombie Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, MartinC said: Goff is possibly a good example. Though the jury is still out on exactly how good he is versus is he being carried by the scheme and McVays play calling. Stafford was injured his second year after a so so rookie year - but he was good in Y3. If by Carr you mean David he never really recovered from getting the crap beaten out of him with the Texans. David is out of the league. I'm talking about his bro Derek Carr, for Vegas. He was pretty inaccurate as a rookie (58.1) but now has seasons in the 70s. He is a great example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Califan007 said: Not sure why two WRs were running to basically the same spot in the end zone...is that normal? Possible Hail Mary/jump ball type set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 minute ago, FootballZombie said: David is out of the league. I'm talking about his bro Derek Carr, for Vegas. He was pretty inaccurate as a rookie (58.1) but now has seasons in the 70s. He is a great example. Gotcha. But Derek had a good rookie year. He threw for 21 TDs and only 12 picks. He was under 60% but not by much. I think any rookie QB would be happy with the numbers Dereck put up as a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: After looking at that cutup I think I agree with @stevemcqueen1 in that the play was doomed from the start although a confident QB with a big arm might have been able to make a play. I still don't understand why he didn't take a shot since it was 4th down. I don't know who has been saying this adnauseum, I think it si @KDawg, but I could be mistaken, that the "right" thing to do in that situation is for the QB to break the pocket, escape and extend the play, turning it into a scramble drill where anything can happen. It's situational awareness. If you throw that pass, it means nothing in that situation. So, you have to extend to give your guys more room, maybe get a defensive holding call, ANYTHING is better than just essentially dumping the ball off and letting the guy get tackled. It honestly really doesn't matter in context, because the game was essentially over anyway. And there is no real play you can draw up to beat that situation. The Ravens have to guard the goal line, rally to anything in front of them. They could litterally rush 2, drop 9 guys to stand on the goal line, if a receiver goes behind them, they follow, if they don't they just let you catch and rally to the ball. If you put 5 guys behind them, it's going to be 5 receivers against probably 7 defenders. You're NEVER going to design a play that gives you an advantage in that situation. So they best you can hope for is chaos, and have somebody get lost in the chaos, and then make a play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said: David is out of the league. I'm talking about his bro Derek Carr, for Vegas. He was pretty inaccurate as a rookie (58.1) but now has seasons in the 70s. He is a great example. And yet he isn't a top 10 QB. Haskins is never going to be a top 10 qb. face it. he has shown nothing right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 36 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: IMO they were pretty bad. We had to surrender running a true three level passing game yesterday because we knew we couldn't get it blocked. That gameplan was never going to get it done against a quality opponent like Baltimore. But I also recognize that our OL players are not good and that the we don't have many other realistic choices when the run game isn't giving us good leverage down and distance either. However, I do think there were some preparation issues on display yesterday. When you've got a bunch of snaps of linemen blocking grass on blitzes, even experienced ones like Morgan Moses, that suggests the offense wasn't ready for the pick ups. Baltimore being a super heavy blitzing team wasn't news heading into the week. The performance of the team gave me the impression that they are distracted. It just baffles me that you think the reason they played such a simple offensive scheme was because the OL and talent and not because Haskins. You're watching a different game than almost everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Califan007 said: Not sure why two WRs were running to basically the same spot in the end zone...is that normal? Not usually. Looks like they'd cross with one going to the post the other to the corner. Slow developing play for sure. Looks even worse in sooper dooper slo mo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Just now, wit33 said: Possible Hail Mary/jump ball type set up? I dunno...I just think trying to clear out a spot in the end zone would make more sense than having all the defenders congregate to the same spot lol...throwing a true hail mary pass it's unavoidable, but not here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 15 minutes ago, MartinC said: No question the play calling has been tailored to work around the limitations on O'Line - and QB and WR as well. 100%. I am in complete agreement here. Trying to fit limited personnel into a gameplan is difficult. Just now, Califan007 said: I dunno...I just think trying to clear out a spot in the end zone would make more sense than having all the defenders congregate to the same spot lol...throwing a true hail mary pass it's unavoidable, but not here. That close to the goal line in a score or lose possession down its tough to really clear out any spots. They had 8 defenders back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, Califan007 said: Not sure why two WRs were running to basically the same spot in the end zone...is that normal? I don't know on this play, but it happened a couple of times throughout the game, and I think at least once it was a receiver mix-up. There was one play Logan Thomas and Inman were essentially in the same area, Haskins looked like he was throwing to Inman, who was at the back of the end zone, and Thomas got a hand on the ball thinking it was for him. I have no idea who screwed up. But somebody, or somebodies did. The options: 1. Haskins, was trying to throw to Logan, and was high and outside. The play design was correct. 2. Logan. He wasn't where he was supposed to be, and he knocked the ball down. Haskins didn't expect him there, and the throw was not to him. 3. Inman. He ran the wrong route and drew additional defenders into the area where Logan was operating, which forced a high throw? (I'm reaching here, to be honest). 4. Haskins actually bum-fuzzled the play call in the huddle, and the receivers did what he told them to do, but he told them to do the wrong thing. Somebody zigged when they were supposed to zag. I THINK if Logan just lets the ball go, unless there was a defender I didn't see on the TV feed (which is possible), the ball lands directly in Inman's gut. But, if Haskins was throwing to Logan, Logan was open if he located the ball better. I'm not sure who screwed that one up. Probably multiple people. TO your point on that play, I have no idea if that was also a screw up or if it was intended to create a natural pick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 20 minutes ago, Califan007 said: Video of SIP's screenshot One guys running an out to the pylon, and the two other guys are running ins.There is nothing wrong with the play design. If you buy time, you hopefully get in different windows and can hit one of the two guys crossing on the ins. Haskins makes up his mind before anything can unfold with that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, wit33 said: Love the game tape Haskins can now look at from both extremes of the last two weeks with the hope he can find bliss right in the middle with his approach. I worry a governor is in the process of being placed on him with sign posts leading him to mediocrity. I think he can duplicate yesterday’s performance while yawning throughout the process— this is why I dislike worrying about turnovers at this stage, let the dude fly or plummet and keep it moving. He wants to be great and is willing to plummet unlike most QBs. He has unique wiring it appears from afar. I agree. I admit my #1 concern about Haskins is can he make the throws that seperate the men from the boys. Yes he has plenty of arm strength but can he thread the needle and make the tough throws outside of his wheel house which IMO are mostly the short stuff in between the numbers: shallow crossers, digs, slants, mesh concepts. I'd like to see a game plan where he lets it fly more. Rivera flat out admitted he's testing Haskins on some fronts to see how he responds -- so on the same token, I'd open things up more and see what happens. Rivera, Turner, Zampese -- aren't idiots, if Haskins throws an INT and its on the receiver they will factor context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetThePointsSoar Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Not that it matters at ALL, but what's getting lost in this 4th down bad decision is that he essentially made the same decision on 3rd down too. Take 2 damn shots to the end zone. He has zero situational awareness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballZombie Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, MartinC said: Gotcha. But Derek had a good rookie year. He threw for 21 TDs and only 12 picks. He was under 60% but not by much. I think any rookie QB would be happy with the numbers Dereck put up as a rookie. I agree, good year. But if we are looking for examples of inaccurate QBs getting more accurate, a QB's who rookie campaign featured lower completion % than Haskins rookie season is one of the best places to draw inspiration. 58.1 to 58.6 11 minutes ago, skinfan2k said: And yet he isn't a top 10 QB. Haskins is never going to be a top 10 qb. face it. he has shown nothing right now. Debatable, but depends on the metric and how you want to measure a QB. He is currently top 10 in yds, completion % passer rating, QBR, TDs w/ no INTs. He's playing great ball right now. If Haskins gets to those places we are in very good shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, KDawg said: 100%. I am in complete agreement here. Trying to fit limited personnel into a gameplan is difficult. That close to the goal line in a score or lose possession down its tough to really clear out any spots. They had 8 defenders back. I just thought maybe if the one WR does this instead... ...maybe it leads to some space here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 22 minutes ago, wit33 said: I worry a governor is in the process of being placed on him with sign posts leading him to mediocrity. I think he can duplicate yesterday’s performance while yawning throughout the process— this is why I dislike worrying about turnovers at this stage, let the dude fly or plummet and keep it moving. He wants to be great and is willing to plummet unlike most QBs. He has unique wiring it appears from afar. ... ***For example, Favre was very much on the edge of being a bust before he became a Hall of Fame QB, but he was willing to take the risk. Many other examples as well. Would not allow himself to be neutered. None of this jives with his decision on 4th down yesterday to throw the checkdown without pressure. I don’t care how poorly it was drawn up, that decision from Haskins makes no sense. Especially given he was told to go to the end zone and give someone a chance. He didn’t. How is that “unique wiring” or “refusing to be neutered” (I know you said this about Favre but your implication is obviously that Haskins also has this DGAF attitude and gunslinger nature)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, MartinC said: Gotcha. But Derek had a good rookie year. He threw for 21 TDs and only 12 picks. He was under 60% but not by much. I think any rookie QB would be happy with the numbers Dereck put up as a rookie. I think Goff is probably the best near term example of a QB who was labeled a complete bust after his rookie season, and showed at least enough to get an extension. The extenuating circumstance is Goff was coached his rookie year by Fisher and an offensive staff that was putrid. And upgrading to McVay is a rising tide that floats all boats. I'm not sure how good Goff really is, but he is another example of a QB who struggled his rookie year, but was good enough to get to a SB and get an extension. Please note: I'm not comparing Haskins to Goff. Simply suggesting that Goff is an example of a QB who turned it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 @Califan007 wouldn’t have hurt, that’s for sure. A deeper defender would have went with it most likely, but that does give Haskins the chance to throw one up to the corner. I’m not sure he connects on it given his accuracy, but that’s a good adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, FootballZombie said: I agree, good year. But if we are looking for examples of inaccurate QBs getting more accurate, a QB's who rookie campaign featured lower completion % than Haskins rookie season is one of the best places to draw inspiration. 58.1 to 58.6 Debatable, but depends on the metric and how you want to measure a QB. He is currently top 10 in yds, completion % passer rating, QBR, TDs w/ no INTs. He's playing great ball right now. If Haskins gets to those places we are in very good shape. Who do you consider the top 10 QBs in the league? Metrics/Statistics/Eyeball... whatever your cup of tea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 22 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: I don't know who has been saying this adnauseum, I think it si @KDawg, but I could be mistaken, that the "right" thing to do in that situation is for the QB to break the pocket, escape and extend the play, turning it into a scramble drill where anything can happen. I haven't seen Haskins do to much of that if at all but after looking at that cut up with 8 dropped into coverage he seems to have plenty of time so no reason to bail that early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Just now, JSSkinz said: I haven't seen Haskins do to much of that if at all but after looking at that cut up with 8 dropped into coverage he seems to have plenty of time so no reason to bail that early. I didn't mean bail early. I meant extend the play. If that means stand still and wait, that's fine. If it means sprinting left that's fine. Just keep the play alive until you see something positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Just now, JSSkinz said: I haven't seen Haskins do to much of that if at all but after looking at that cut up with 8 dropped into coverage he seems to have plenty of time so no reason to bail that early. The refrain here has been that the play design calls for him to get the ball out that quickly. And they're absolutely correct that the play design does in fact call for that quick of a release. But what that's not accounting for is football IQ and situational awareness. In that situation, 4th and goal, you need to get the ball to the end zone or to a receiver that can get it in the end zone. Maybe he thought Wright had a chance, but from those camera shots I'm not sure what he was looking at if he thought Wright was going to get that in the end zone. If that play happened on 3rd and 4 instead of 4th and goal 14 yards out on a 5 yard pass, I'd be excited that he got the ball out that quickly. 1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said: I didn't mean bail early. I meant extend the play. If that means stand still and wait, that's fine. If it means sprinting left that's fine. Just keep the play alive until you see something positive. Climb the ladder, extend the play by moving laterally when one of the three rushers starts closing in, break the pocket. Let the receivers move around. It's hard to cover guys for that long. That's not to say that the play converts, obviously. But it's situationally more appropriate to take a shot than it is to throw the ball to the 9. I'd bet there was a better shot of Haskins running it in than the ball to the 9 yard line gave. And that's saying something... but it is ultimately just conjecture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballZombie Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 minute ago, KDawg said: Who do you consider the top 10 QBs in the league? Metrics/Statistics/Eyeball... whatever your cup of tea... Mixture of everything, what they are asked to do, what kind of offense they run, what have they accomplished (playoffs) stuff like that. Wilson, Mahomes, Brees, Rodgers score high on metrics like that with players like Jackson, Goff, Big Ben, Carr, Allen and Prescott not getting to the tippy top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Can we please stop comparing Jared Goff to Haskins? He is the inverse of Haskins. He had a terrible rookie season, and then turned a corner with a new coaching staff. Haskins had a terrible rookie season and closed it out with 6 decent quarters of football, and has regressed under a new coaching staff. Also, on Sheehan's podcast today, Cooley said that on one of the sacks where there was no one who blocked the pass rusher, Cooley could hear Haskins call the line protection right before that play. Meaning that he called the wrong protection and that some of these sacks he is taking are not the fault of the offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 37 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: So they best you can hope for is chaos, and have somebody get lost in the chaos, and then make a play. Ot just, you know, kick the FG 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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