FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[SoCalSkins]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

This pick was messed up when it was made with a lame duck coach. After demonstrating he’s not fitting what is needed, there is a sunk cost element to breaking away from Allen/Gruden.

We haven’t drafted a franchise QB who legitimately panned out for us since 1937. Why is there so much shock and angst when another one doesn’t pan out? It’s what we do as an organization. It’s in our DNA from the early days of the franchise. Moving on from a mid round first is a drop in the bucket.

[DJHJR86]

11 TD - 6 INT - 59.94 Completion % - 5.72 AY/A - 36.4 QBR

12 TD - 10 INT - 59.76 Completion % - 5.9 AY/A - 43.6 QBR

 

Haskins is a slightly worse EJ Manuel.  And if you think this is some sort of thing that only happens in Washington and that the media and fans are out to get Haskins...this was written after Manuel's first 9 starts:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1884138-why-ej-manuel-cant-be-labeled-a-bust-after-9-nfl-starts

 

And guess what happened after his rookie season?

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-jimbo-fisher-said-ej-manuel-didnt-have-tools-to-be-nfl-starter/

 

He was benched after 4 starts, and the team went on to have a 9-7 season.  

[Going Commando]

21 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

I have no clue why you're arguing this when there's video evidence that everyone can see that proves two things... 

 

#1 He makes the decision to throw the out before the routes could even develop in the end zone

#2 It's a 3 man rush and he has time to extend the play if the initial routes weren't open

 

It's not like it's a high probability play but believe it or not good quarterbacks extend plays when they aren't initially open. There is nothing good about that play that Haskins did. Just chalk that one up to the "bad play" column. You argue like everything Haskins does is good and it's everyone elses fault that he can't step up in the pocket and extend a play to make a play. Ridiculous. 

 

The reason I asked you those questions is because, for one thing, you can't see where the three deep receivers are from the broadcast view, but mainly because I don't think you're recognizing the coverage or the timing of the play.  And I also think you have an unrealistic expectation of what those receivers can do against the eight different guys playing zones in and around the end zone.  That playcall wasn't low probability, it was zero probability.

[owa]

Overall, I thought Haskins played much better than he did against the Browns.  Still a couple of missed short passes that weren't even close and not sure how that even happens at that level but then again, I'm shocked when pro basketball players can't make a free throw.  Haskins hit on plenty of short passes though so that was good to see and the one long pass that he completed was a great throw and catch.   I thought the game plan helped him quite a bit so hopefully see more of that.  To me, it basically seemed like they were using the short stuff as essentially a run play and I'm fine with that.  The only thing that really bugged me was the 4th and goal and not throwing it in the end zone.  Doesn't matter if they're back there waiting for that.  It is essentially a hail mary type play where everyone and their mothers knows it is going to the end zone but you still throw it to the end zone and hope for a miracle.  Otherwise, I thought he had an okay day.

[SoCalSkins]

We officially have our Baghdad Bob for the Cult of Haskins. To think people were defending what amounts to a propaganda mouthpiece as a reasoned analyst and poster last night. The fanboy delusions are far stronger than you guys think. As we get closer to the end it will even become more ludicrous because they have to defend absurdity on top of more absurdity. The cost of all that credibility over a bust. Won’t be the first QB controversy to do it and won’t be the last. It is what it is.  

[Dark Acre]

4 hours ago, carex said:

 

tons of QBs get major YAC, hell that's the way some offenses are designed to function

Yeah, especially when some fans rave about a WR's YAC.  Then you blame his QB for stinking because his stats are inflated by gaudy YAC numbers?

 

I think the league should create a 33rd and 34th teams - at large ("ministers without portfolio" so to speak) to balance the schedules.  Then every 3 years it auctions off the right to operate the team -- full control over plays and personnel -- to fans (there'll be bid pools) who've proven in on-line postings that they know how to run winning football teams.  [They draft 33 and 34 respectively.  I've always hated giving modern expansion teams the first pick.  They have never lost a game.  Make them know what it was like to be the expansion Bucs or Saints.]

[Going Commando]

26 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

The QB can’t be developed if he is LITERALLY a symptom of the organizational problem. What are you missing about that? 
 

You get in here and grasp at straws every week. We all know the guy is not what Ron wants. You’re tapdancing around the fact that Dwayne wasn’t screwed the moment Dan stood on the table and overdrafted him. You keep saying the fans are impatient when the selection of Dwayne Haskins was inpatient and destined to fail the minute he was drafted. 

 

You think the development of Haskins was doomed to fail the moment we drafted him because the franchise was too dysfunctional to develop a quarterback.  If you accept that reality, do you think we've changed and developed the capability of developing a franchise QB now, and that what's needed is to bring in a new prospect?

[JSSkinz]

Do we have any examples of rookie QB's actually developing from the point where their play is below average as a rookie and then they develop into being a good to solid NFL starter?

 

For all I know Mahomes could have done great things as a rookie and Goff just needed the right coach/scheme because there's no way he developed from what he was as a rook to what he is now in the 4 month offseason when McVay became coach.

 

Developing QB's sounds great but can any team in the NFL actually do it?

[carex]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

You think the development of Haskins was doomed to fail the moment we drafted him because the franchise was too dysfunctional to develop a quarterback.  If you accept that reality, do you think we've changed and developed the capability of developing a franchise QB now, and that what's needed is to bring in a new prospect?

 

overdrafted?  Him or Daniel Jones were the choices for second QBs taken

[Fat Stupid Loser]

1 minute ago, carex said:

 

overdrafted?  Him or Daniel Jones were the choices for second QBs taken

So you take them in the 3rd or 4th round, where they belonged.  Every year the paid talking heads hype the "best in the class" QBs into legitimate 1st round guys. And Dan and others fall for it.  Wouldn't be surprised if the talking heads are paid by agents to do it. 

[GOATFrerotte]

25 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The reason I asked you those questions is because, for one thing, you can't see where the three deep receivers are from the broadcast view, but mainly because I don't think you're recognizing the coverage or the timing of the play.  And I also think you have an unrealistic expectation of what those receivers can do against the eight different guys playing zones in and around the end zone.  That playcall wasn't low probability, it was zero probability.

 

We'll never know if there was a chance on the play because he didn't give it a chance. He threw a 4 yard out before feeling any pressure. Like the entire game, he was playing scared and not willing to make any attempt downfield. We'll just put this in the Haskins Fanboy Takes pile. Because it's beyond laughable that you can watch that play and come to the conclusion the playcall was the problem, lol. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Not if you've spent a minute thinking about the situation and the playcall.  I asked these questions earlier, I'd like to see if anyone has an honest answer for them:

 

 

People thinking that was a good playcall is shocking to me.  Some of you guys need to watch other teams play more.

 

Nothing here changes the fact that Dwayne looked off his receivers headed to the end zone before they even got there and of course was instructed that the throw had to be into the end zone.  

 

As @httr2020dynastypointed out he played scared all day and this was anther example of that.  

[GOATFrerotte]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I don't know how to decipher this. Is he saying it's a tough situation for him to decide if Haskins should keep playing or tough situation for Haskins?

 

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Nothing here changes the fact that Dwayne looked off his receivers headed to the end zone before they even got there and of course was instructed that the throw had to be into the end zone.  

 

How do you know where those receivers were when the ball came out?  Do you understand that the patterns are designed to break and create the throwing window when the QB completes the drop and that's the intended timing for the throw?

[Darrell Green Fan]

3 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

I don't know how to decipher this. Is he saying it's a tough situation for him to decide if Haskins should keep playing or tough situation for Haskins?

 

 

I read it as the former. I honestly don't see him starting too many more weeks.  He owes it to the other players.  

[Darrell Green Fan]

Just now, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

How do you know where those receivers were when the ball came out?  Do you understand that the patterns are designed to break and create the throwing window when the QB completes the drop and that's the intended timing for the throw?

 

I know where the ball is not supposed to go on third and goal and that is to the 5 yard line on a check down. There is no way to defend that throw yet here we are.  

[DJHJR86]

17 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Do we have any examples of rookie QB's actually developing from the point where their play is below average as a rookie and then they develop into being a good to solid NFL starter?

 

We have people like Josh Allen, who looked putrid as a passer in his first 2 seasons who has really turned a corner thus far in year three.  However, he had the benefit of being a dual threat quarterback, so there was room for patience with him.  I literally have no idea why the Jets haven't given up on Darnold yet.  But for every Josh Allen there are Matt Leinart, EJ Manuel, Brady Quinn, Tim Tebow, Brandon Weeden, etc.  

[Going Commando]

8 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

We'll never know if there was a chance on the play because he didn't give it a chance. He threw a 4 yard out before feeling any pressure. Like the entire game, he was playing scared and not willing to make any attempt downfield. We'll just put this in the Haskins Fanboy Takes pile. Because it's beyond laughable that you can watch that play and come to the conclusion the playcall was the problem, lol. 

 

Man is it frustrating attempting to have Xs and Os discussions in here.  A friendly word of advice, mimicking the childish posting style of SoCalSkins isn't a way to win arguments or produce quality posts.

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

You think the development of Haskins was doomed to fail the moment we drafted him because the franchise was too dysfunctional to develop a quarterback.  If you accept that reality, do you think we've changed and developed the capability of developing a franchise QB now, and that what's needed is to bring in a new prospect?

 

This post wasn't addressed to me but you've ignored this part of the plot each time i've or others made the point to you, unless I missed a post?

 

A.  We are saying the process of how he was drafted was the key part of the dysfunction.  

 

Your point is that this organization doesn't develop QBs well because of the dysfunction. And I don't disagree.  But, what we are saying is the process of taking Haskins itself was dysfunctional.   When the HC and apparently top college personnel guy along with their scouts weren't on board -- that was the issue and that issue has lingering effects.  

 

You ignore that in your discussion and race to the next plot of the movie as if chapter 1 isn't relevant.  We are saying chapter 1 sets up the plot line. It's very relevant. 

 

If this was Kyle Smith's pet project.  He fell in love with Haskins.  And in turn failed to build around him then your take is on point.  But according to multiple people who cover this team that's not how it unfolded.

 

You are correct IMO that Haskins hasn't gotten a fair shake.  But this is an arranged marriage according to some.  The arranged marriage IMO and some others here is a key plot line. 

 

You seem to be ignoring the arranged marriage plotline.  And judging it as if it wasn't an arranged marriage. 

[GOATFrerotte]

Just now, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Man is it frustrating attempting to have Xs and Os discussions in here.  A friendly word of advice, mimicking the childish posting style of SoCalSkins isn't a way to win arguments or produce quality posts.

 

What Xs and Os are you talking about. You act like you understand football yet you are defending a guy throwing a 4 yard out on 4th and goal from the 13. I don't know what to tell you, but you are wrong about your Xs and Os belief. Long distance routes are not necessarily designed to be thrown on the dropback, many require buying time to develop, something Haskins did not do. How can a coach call a play in the back of the end zone or a play that crosses multiple windows when the quarterback just throws his check down almost immediately. Please spare me the Xs and Os knowledge when you are defending one of the more ridiculous plays people have seen, ha. 

[ExoDus84]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Current PFF after yesterday.  Antonio Gibson is at 76.8.

 

Haskins the lowest ranked PFF grade of all our starters, and ranked 34 out of 35 eligible QB's?

 

Sounds about right. Par for the course so far in his career.

2 hours ago, Llevron said:

He wasnt even under any pressure on that play. Damn that was disappointing. I mean I would have given us a better chance on that play. I know people say that alot. But I would have atleast basketball lobbed that **** to the back of the endzone.  

 

Haskins been practicing that play all week.

 

[ExoDus84]

21 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 I literally have no idea why the Jets haven't given up on Darnold yet.

 

Darnold might still have some potential. The Jets are a dumpster fire though, and he got Adam Gase'd this season, and that dude could kill Tom Brady's career.

[KDawg]

15 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I know where the ball is not supposed to go on third and goal and that is to the 5 yard line on a check down. There is no way to defend that throw yet here we are.  

 

Worse, 4th down.

 

On the condensed game on GamePass you can see McLaurin is running a deep out type route right at the goal line. The inside trip looks like he's going MoF/Back of the end zone. Thomas on the backside looks like he's running up the hash. Wright runs a China route. 

 

Haskins was well protected. McLaurin just started the break in his route. Dwayne turned and fired to Wright, who looked to be all alone at the top of his drop with several Ravens in the vicinity.

 

The argument that the play design asks for that to be thrown at the top of the drop is valid. That's how that play is designed. However, when the OC says, "This has to go to the end zone" then, well, the throwing at the top of your drop stuff goes by the way side and you're looking for the routes in the end zone to throw. A scramble drill works fantastic there. 

 

I will check that play again when the coaches film is released.

[SoCalSkins]

23 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Man is it frustrating attempting to have Xs and Os discussions in here.  A friendly word of advice, mimicking the childish posting style of SoCalSkins isn't a way to win arguments or produce quality posts.

You post like a kool-aid drinking cult clown and you dare call anyone else childish? You only care about not being exposed for your nonsensical loyalty to a horrid player who can’t play at the NFL level. If you think your post have quality for example in making excuses for a 4th and goal from the 12 going to the 9 yard line you are beyond deluded. So keep my name out of your clown posts unless you are addressing me directly and I will do the same for you and the rest of the cult. Thanks 

 

 

[Est.1974]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

But I think the offensive gameplan yesterday fit not only Haskins, but the OL. The OL is okay as long as the QB isn’t taking a ton of 5 and 7 step drops. Obviously, that’s not great in the long term. The OL needs SIGNIFICANT improvement. But with a limited QB and a limited OL, I’m sticking with that. At some point, though, you need to get the defenders to back off and you do that by continuing to stretch the field horizontally but also adding some more vertical challenges.

Agreed.

 

Limited QB behind a limited OL. Playing safe is a just that, a safe approach. Problem is, all that proves over time is that we have a limited QB and a limited OL that needs mothering.

 

At some stage, Haskins has to elevate that level of performance by being pushed. Conservative game planning will get us nowhere over a period of time. Another 300 yard drink and dunk defeat against the Rams 31-17 is a wasted week. 
 

If Haskins is starting this week, I’m throwing him neck deep in the crap to see if he can get out of it. He either will or he won’t. And that won’t be governed by getting the win or not. He simply needs to demonstrate/create a belief that he could win games for us moving forward.