FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've debated that if I recall maybe even with you on this thread but I'd take the current Giants O line over ours any day of the week.    Their O line IMO after this off season is above average.  It wasn't the case last year. 

 

Pretty sure it was me.

 

Nate Solder opted out, he's not playing.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Pretty sure it was me.

 

Nate Solder opted out, he's not playing.

 

 

I know.  But they drafted Thomas, Peart (who can play RT) and Lemieux.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I know.  But they drafted Thomas, Peart (who can play RT) and Lemieux.

 

Aren't 2 of those 3 guys not supposed to be starting in 2020?  Unless Hernandez or Zeitler got hurt or opted out and I missed it.  There probably is a competition between Peart and Fleming for the RT job.  But Peart profiles as like a carbon copy of Geron Christian.  Physically, they've got the size and length that makes scouts drool, but they needed better play strength coming out of college, and people question their mindset and if they have the attitude necessary for the NFL.  I doubt he gets the start over Fleming.

 

Thomas - Hernandez - some Center I'm forgetting who - Zeitler - Fleming ...right?  I'm counting 3 question marks other than Thomas and Zeitler.  I don't think that profiles as above average.  I doubt that o-line is going to be enough to keep Daniel Jones from doing normal Daniel Jones stuff, i.e. sacks+fumbling.

 

What am I missing here.

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

What am I missing here.

 

LT:  I think Thomas is going to be one of the better LTs in the league

LG:  Hernandez has been inconsistent but he's a mauler when he's on his game

C -- that's the question mark IMO but if Lemieux can play there, it might be OK. 

RG: Zeitler:  he's their Brandon Scherff, similar caliber player.  

RT:  Whether its Fleming or Peart I think it will be OK.   Granted not great.

 

I think it likely is above average as a unit.  Not great but above average and better than our O line. 

 

Don't see Peart as a Geron Christian clone.  Among other reasons, Peart has a massive wingspan.   Christian's wingspan is OK.   Sme tout Mogan Moses massive wingspan.  Peart is actually 2 inches better than Moses.  He has potential IMO. 

'

https://chargerswire.usatoday.com/2020/02/26/2020-nfl-combine-matt-peart-stands-out-as-offensive-tackles-measure-in/

Takeaways

• Matt Peart was arguably the biggest winner. The former UConn product boasted the longest arms and wingspan, which is extremely beneficial at the position. At 320 pounds, he looks the part with an NFL frame. Peart put together solid tape at the right tackle position, stamping himself as a top-100 pick. He should help his stock even more after showing off his athleticism this week.

 

https://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/2020/04/oregon-ducks-offensive-guard-shane-lemieux-selected-by-new-york-giants-in-fifth-round-of-nfl-draft.html

Lemieux began training at center during the pre-draft process.

 

“His play style, it is mauler, brawler,” NFL Network’s Daniel Jeremiah said. “He’s going to latch his hands, he’s going to drive you and he’s going to try and finish you. In pass protection he does not have great bend, he doesn’t bend his knees all that great and he’ll struggle. But when he’s freed up, if he doesn’t have a man over him, he is a nasty helper. If you’re next to him and you’re engaged and he’s got nothing to do, he’s going to find work — trust me. He has that nastiness to him, which I love, and the durability.

 

[wit33]

@Skinsinparadise

 

I swear your Giant love has me believing the    in-laws are on these boards keeping you in line. 
 

 

[Koolblue13]

7 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I hope not.  Lamar Jackson carried the ball 176 times in 15 games last year.  

 

I'd rather see us closer to KC, or even Philly back in 17 where Wentz carried the ball 60+ times (still more than i would like) in 13 games.  

 

7 hours ago, wit33 said:

I can see the pre snap action being similar to that of the Ravens and teams you mentioned. I think the QB carries will be close to what Wentz and Mahomes have done. Reid just likes it to be a threat not a fixture in an offense. 

This is what I meant. I don't see Haskins as a running QB at all. Probably less than those two. I just meant the misdirection, short yard stuff and presnap movement.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

44 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

LT:  I think Thomas is going to be one of the better LTs in the league

LG:  Hernandez has been inconsistent but he's a mauler when he's on his game

C -- that's the question mark IMO but if Lemieux can play there, it might be OK. 

RG: Zeitler:  he's their Brandon Scherff, similar caliber player.  

RT:  Whether its Fleming or Peart I think it will be OK.   Granted not great.

 

I think it likely is above average as a unit.  Not great but above average and better than our O line. 

 

Don't see Peart as a Geron Christian clone.  Among other reasons, Peart has a massive wingspan.   Christian's wingspan is OK.   Sme tout Mogan Moses massive wingspan.  Peart is actually 2 inches better than Moses.  He has potential IMO. 

 

 

 

Their Center spot, I guess we'll find out in a week or two.  Place I read from had Lemieux at Guard and somebody named Pulley as the presumed starter, but that was before players reported.  Christian has 35" arm length, that's far better than just OK, that's a great length.  Peart is crazy long, but at a certain point, being really long is still really long.  For reference, Saahdiq Charles has 33", Trent Williams had I think 34" and that was considered ideal.  Moses arm length is just 3/8th longer than Christian.  They're both really long.

 

Copying pasting Christian and Peart's NFL.com draft bio's, but removing the names.  It's not obvious which one is which.

 

Three-year starter with experience taking snaps at both tackle spots, ****** possesses good overall athleticism and foot quickness with the arm length NFL evaluators covet. He needs to improve his upper body strength in order make better use of his length in pass protection and to help with redirect blocks. If ****** can improve his anchor and functional power, he could become an average starter, but if not, he will be a swing tackle trying to hold off competition for his job.

 

Swing tackle prospect with outstanding length and athleticism, but lacking play strength and hand usage to survive against NFL competition at this time. It is important to note that ****** has the potential to get stronger and that issues of concern are mostly correctable. He has the physical traits that put him in position to get better and better as a pro, but after four years as a collegiate starter, teams may wonder whether he has the necessary demeanor and grit at the point of attack to stick around as a pro.

 

If 60% of the o-line has question marks, they'll have growing pains as a unit.  If there are weakspots along the O-line, it doesn't matter how good the LT or RG are.  We've seen that with Trent Williams since 2010, and seen that specific LT+RG example with Scherff joining him from 2015-2018.

[Mr. Sinister]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

This is awesome. Been so used to guys (who I will not name) reportedly shunning advice from their peers, oldheads and football lifers. Cant do anything with a talented guy that won't listen.  But even if Haskins is not the talent we believe him to be, the fact that he's willing to work his ass off is a big positive for me.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

@Skinsinparadise

 

I swear your Giant love has me believing the    in-laws are on these boards keeping you in line. 
 

 

 

LOL, I just am pretty confident I know that team.  I think some Redskins fans especially on twitter seem to treat them as the real worst team in the NFC East.  But I think that's wishful thinking-homerism.  They've beaten us if I recall 8 of the last 12 times or something like that.  They routed us in both a game last season and the season before.  

 

They are building a young nucleus just like we are.  But I think few Redskin fans see them as a threat or even dislike them the way we do the Eagles and Dallas.  It just strikes me odd.  My in laws have made me more aware because they've rubbed it in my face plenty.  🤨  Giant fans see the Redskins from what I notice the same way many Redskin fans see the Giants -- which is heck at least we are distinctly better than that team.   It's one of the oddest NFC East things I've observed (at least from my perspective) from following the division forever.   Both fan bases IMO grossly underestimate the other team. 

[KDawg]

See, talent is a strange beast.

 

While I do think Haskins has the most physical talent (size, arm strength etc.), I’m not sure he’s a better overall QB than Lock. I think Haskins arm is superior. 
 

But Lock has some really decent composure. 
 

All in all I think Lock is a better quarterback but Haskins has more ceiling. When I say better QB, or total package, I mean everything. Physical talent, mobility, strength, experience, decisions, demeanor, maturity, leadership, etc. It’s more of a “what has the guy done with his throws and time in college AND his first year in the NFL.

 

Overall Package:

 

1. Murray

2. Lock

3. Jones

4. Haskins

 

Ceiling:

 

1. Murray

2. Haskins

3. Lock

4. Jones 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

 

Copying pasting Christian and Peart's NFL.com draft bio's, but removing the names.  It's not obvious which one is which.

 

 

I don't see how draft rap write ups are relevant once we got a dude in the league for some time.  I am sure for example Josh Doctson's draft write up stacks up more than fine against Denzel Mims.  But who would a team roll the dice on now?

 

Christian has a sample size now and arguably its not hot thus far.  If I recall someone questioned (it might have been you, if so it's cool, I didn't mind) me when I said i heard an insider say that some in the building questioned Christian's intensity as a player and wondered about his future.  Weeks after that, Keim finally threw that nugget in an article and I posted it here.

 

There are multiple beat guys who have said they hear people in that building aren't sold on Christian.  Will see.  I am banking on Charles if anyone to hopefully man the LT spot.  Hopefully Charles can stay out of trouble. 

 

Edit:  ironically Keim talked about Christian this morning.  He said they were "big time disappointed" in his play last season.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I am high on both Lock and Haskins' potential.  From my naked eye, both dudes have a bazooka of an arm.  I think Lock's is slightly stronger.  I know its impossible to gauge.  One site did and gave Lock a slight nod in that department.

In doing the research I stumbled on this article which I think was interesting.

 

https://www.nj.com/giants/2019/04/nfl-draft-2019-ohio-states-dwayne-haskins-or-missouris-drew-lock-one-analysts-take-on-qb-debate.html

Both Haskins and Lock have elite arm talent and solid leadership qualities, but in recent weeks reports have surfaced that teams have soured on the Buckeyes’ signal caller’s work ethic during the pre-draft process.

 

---

 

 

Likewise, ESPN NFL Draft analyst Todd McShay believes that Lock’s experience could boost him up draft boards in the final days of preparation around the league.

 

“If you’re going to make an argument for Drew Lock over Dwayne Haskins, hypothetically, the argument is similar size, similar arm, better athlete, 46 starts compared to 14," McShay said Tuesday on a conference call with NFL reporters. "[Lock has] confidence and kills it on the board when you sit down and talk football with him.

 

"Haskins is very smart, the best pure pocket-passer in this class, but if you’re a scout pushing your GM to go with Lock, you’re banging on the table for the experience that he has and some of the other things.”

 

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2019/futures-drew-lock

Arm talent is Lock's defining trait. The catch-all term "arm talent" is often a substitute for saying a player can throw the ball far and fast, but it is more than that with Lock. He does throw the ball far and with great velocity, but it is quick and malleable throwing motion that makes his arm so impressive. Lock can maintain velocity and control from any platform, and he can adjust his arm slot when necessary.

[Going Commando]

13 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Aren't 2 of those 3 guys not supposed to be starting in 2020?  Unless Hernandez or Zeitler got hurt or opted out and I missed it.  There probably is a competition between Peart and Fleming for the RT job.  But Peart profiles as like a carbon copy of Geron Christian.  Physically, they've got the size and length that makes scouts drool, but they needed better play strength coming out of college, and people question their mindset and if they have the attitude necessary for the NFL.  I doubt he gets the start over Fleming.

 

Peart's decent.  Perhaps better than any of our young OLs.  Lemieux is good and definitely better than ours.  Thomas is brilliant and better than anyone we're likely to get short of lucking into Penei Sewell.  Hernandez is also a pretty fascinating young prospect and Zeitler is a really good player.  They have added a ton of talent to their OL the past three offseasons, and it's probably going to start paying off soon.  SIP is being clear-eyed about this, the Giants are getting good and it's not clear to me that we're keeping up with them.  The only places where I feel like we have better young talent than them are DL and QB--where we've spent all of our first round picks since 2017.  Maybe WR because of Terry, but they've got more depth of talent there.

 

The other thing is they've got a coherent identity shaping up.  They're going to have a dominant run game soon, and they've built strong up the middle on D and filled up the secondary with nice prospects.  They're successfully building a smashmouth team and if they use this draft to get a couple of good receivers, that would be concerning.  It's going to be a good WR draft too, so it's a threat.  We could end up with Penei Sewell and they could end up with JaMar Chase and still stay ahead of us.

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig writes some killer good articles.  He did one today about some of the younger Redskins players and what some others around the league think of them.

 

I did Christian first below and then Haskins next.   Their point about Haskins is part of the reason why at the moment I think he will rise to the occasion because it seems like the light had switched on hard with him.   I cut off the Christian one a little because there was an expletive as part of their first point about him, 

 

 

Another on Haskins

 

 

[mistertim]

Wasn't that one of the knocks on Christian coming out of college...that he didn't really have much of a mean or competitive streak and was very athletic and pretty technically proficient but didn't really have that killer mentality?

[Malapropismic Depository]

20 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 ironically Keim talked about Christian this morning.  He said they were "big time disappointed" in his play last season.  

 

Moses was a huge disappointment at first too, so I'm willing to give this dude some more time.

Maybe, like Moses, he just needs a position change.

He kind of seems more built to be a Guard anyway, IMO

53 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Wasn't that one of the knocks on Christian coming out of college...that he didn't really have much of a mean or competitive streak and was very athletic and pretty technically proficient but didn't really have that killer mentality?

 

I get that same impression every single time I see him, in any context.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Christian has shown ability, I hope he rises to the challenge. 

[bakedtater1]

On 8/11/2020 at 7:25 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

LOL, I just am pretty confident I know that team.  I think some Redskins fans especially on twitter seem to treat them as the real worst team in the NFC East.  But I think that's wishful thinking-homerism.  They've beaten us if I recall 8 of the last 12 times or something like that.  They routed us in both a game last season and the season before.  

 

They are building a young nucleus just like we are.  But I think few Redskin fans see them as a threat or even dislike them the way we do the Eagles and Dallas.  It just strikes me odd.  My in laws have made me more aware because they've rubbed it in my face plenty.  🤨  Giant fans see the Redskins from what I notice the same way many Redskin fans see the Giants -- which is heck at least we are distinctly better than that team.   It's one of the oddest NFC East things I've observed (at least from my perspective) from following the division forever.   Both fan bases IMO grossly underestimate the other team. 

The giants are my least hated team in that division..for me its philly philly philly Dallas than the giants...despite being a thorn in our side that defense of the giants was fun to watch in the 80's

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

The giants are my least hated team in that division..for me its philly philly philly Dallas than the giants...despite being a thorn in our side that defense of the giants was fun to watch in the 80's

 

Not me, I hate the Giants right after Dallas.  Hate all three other teams in the NFC East.

 

Giants IMO are the one in the NFC East that has disrespected us the most:

 

A.  I recall one season when the Giants had an off year some years back, their beat guy said the most embarrassing thing to the Giants talking to their players is that they lost a game against the Redskins.  Saying something to the effect that its a team they own and have no business losing to them.   It was actually in an ESPN article back then. 

 

B. Multiple players from that team who came over here said the Giants disrespect the Redskins and always expect to beat them.

 

C.  I recall A. Rolle's comments when they lost to the Redskins one year, saying they'd beat them 99 times out of 100 and it was a fluke

 

D.  Their loudest fan right now on ESPN, Max Kellerman, thinks the Redskins are a joke and he's said as a Giants fan he's glad they are in their division. 

 

E.  I recall one of the Giant beat guys jumping on the Redskins pregame on 980 and they asked him about the Redskins chances and he just started laughing obnoxiously.

 

F.  I recall the week leading to the Redskins-Giants game ending the 2016 season -- Giants had nothing to play for and the Redskins had everything to play for since a win clinched a playoff spot.  The Giant players were fired up because they'd love to eliminate the Redskins.  Story after story that week in the NY papers about it at the time.  I put it on the game thread leading to that game.  The Giants hardly rested anyone in that game.   

 

G.  McAdoo talking about the NFC East teams saying "the Redskins are the Redskins" -- implying they are nothing to worry about. 

 

And like I said from what I observed as much as many Redskins fans especially on twitter seem to dismiss the Giants as a team on the rise.  Giant fans equally dismiss us.  They don't buy the rap that we are a young emerging team.  They think we stink and they will continue to own us in head to head matches.

 

 

 

[Riggo#44]

7 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Christian has shown ability, I hope he rises to the challenge. 

 

Stephen Davis back in the day was soft his first couple of years in the league. In 1998, Turner put him at fullback when Terry Allen got hurt--as a result, he learned to play tougher and run harder and become the truck running back he became. Hopefully Rivera, Matsko (who has an excellent reputation) can find a way to motivate him.

[mistertim]

8 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Christian has shown ability, I hope he rises to the challenge. 

 

Yeah he definitely has ability. And I don't think it's 100% necessary for a Tackle to be hyper aggressive and play mean in order to be successful (though I think it can be helpful in some situations).

 

Joe Thomas is a future HOFer and if you listen to him talk and watch him play he's not one of those guys. He was very businesslike and exacting in his technique; not a hothead and not a guy who's going to start screaming at people or talking trash. Just really ****ing good at his job. 

 

Though "not mean" is not necessarily the same as "not competitive". I don't care if Christian isn't a mean guy on the field, but if he doesn't have much competitiveness then I don't have much hope for him because guys without that competitive streak usually aren't going to put in the sort of insane work that goes into being the best in the NFL. 

[bakedtater1]

I remember alot of that @Skinsinparadise...maybe I just forgot how bad I hate them lol

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Hogs 1991]

On 8/13/2020 at 9:36 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not me, I hate the Giants right after Dallas.  Hate all three other teams in the NFC East.

 

Giants IMO are the one in the NFC East that has disrespected us the most:

 

A.  I recall one season when the Giants had an off year some years back, their beat guy said the most embarrassing thing to the Giants talking to their players is that they lost a game against the Redskins.  Saying something to the effect that its a team they own and have no business losing to them.   It was actually in an ESPN article back then. 

 

B. Multiple players from that team who came over here said the Giants disrespect the Redskins and always expect to beat them.

 

C.  I recall A. Rolle's comments when they lost to the Redskins one year, saying they'd beat them 99 times out of 100 and it was a fluke

 

D.  Their loudest fan right now on ESPN, Max Kellerman, thinks the Redskins are a joke and he's said as a Giants fan he's glad they are in their division. 

 

E.  I recall one of the Giant beat guys jumping on the Redskins pregame on 980 and they asked him about the Redskins chances and he just started laughing obnoxiously.

 

F.  I recall the week leading to the Redskins-Giants game ending the 2016 season -- Giants had nothing to play for and the Redskins had everything to play for since a win clinched a playoff spot.  The Giant players were fired up because they'd love to eliminate the Redskins.  Story after story that week in the NY papers about it at the time.  I put it on the game thread leading to that game.  The Giants hardly rested anyone in that game.   

 

G.  McAdoo talking about the NFC East teams saying "the Redskins are the Redskins" -- implying they are nothing to worry about. 

 

And like I said from what I observed as much as many Redskins fans especially on twitter seem to dismiss the Giants as a team on the rise.  Giant fans equally dismiss us.  They don't buy the rap that we are a young emerging team.  They think we stink and they will continue to own us in head to head matches.

 

 

 

Your forgot that $60 million cap penalty that was spearheaded by their douchebag owner John Mara.