FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Warhead36]

Kyle Allen is butt. He is no threat whatsoever to Haskins. Alex Smith on the other hand...

[Hooper]

On 8/1/2020 at 9:06 PM, ConnSKINS26 said:

I know he's on MNF now and all but Riddick just always feels like he's still angling for our GM job lol

 

It is so obvious. Last year, it was pathetic.

[Riggo-toni]

4 hours ago, Hooper said:

 

It is so obvious. Last year, it was pathetic.

Yeah, and he would be a disaster. Vinny Part Deux. Luckily I think Rivera, unlike all other non-Gibbs hires, actually values competence over subservience, which is why hopefully Kyle Smith remains.

[Conn]

7 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

Yeah, and he would be a disaster. Vinny Part Deux. Luckily I think Rivera, unlike all other non-Gibbs hires, actually values competence over subservience, which is why hopefully Kyle Smith remains.

 

Funny you mention Vinny and then specificy non-Gibbs hires, but...Gibbs was perfectly willing to work with Vinny and swear to his competence, so. I don't think that "non-Gibbs" disclaimer is necessary. He was bad in this department too despite having the ultimate pull given who he was. 

[Riggo-toni]

All he did for Gibbs was organize notebooks... basically a glorified intern. Gibbs kept him around to keep Dannyboy happy.  This is unlike Shamahan, who pushed Lord Farquaad to hire Brucifer before he signed on, knowing that the Prince of Dimness would owe his employment to his lobster overlord.

[Conn]

29 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

All he did for Gibbs was organize notebooks... basically a glorified intern. Gibbs kept him around to keep Dannyboy happy.

 

If you truly believe that about Gibbs/Vinny then you must attribute all personnel moves from that time period to Gibbs, which means you must think he's very poor in that department? Interesting interpretation of those events for sure. Those rosters had some talent we all look back fondly on but were very top-heavy and poorly constructed. Very little depth, weak QB evaluation despite a few magical games, poor drafts after the premium picks.

[Malapropismic Depository]

On 8/2/2020 at 4:56 PM, Vanguard said:

I may be late on this but, #7 Dwayne Haskins had 7 td’s and 7 int’s in 7 starts last year.👀

 

Hey, we might end up playing 7 games this year.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Hey, we might end up playing 7 games this year.

You so funny. 

[FootballZombie]

 

I don’t think this will be an open competition at QB. Kyle Allen is a “push” but not a threat to Haskins. Smith is not even on the Radar as long as he is stuck on PUP.  

 

Its just enough to light a fire under a guy, but it’s not like your chasing him with a Flamethrower, which everyone knows is a proven tactic to make a Zombie run faster.

[wit33]

If Haskins doesn’t clearly and emphatically cement himself as the best QB that’d be somewhat disappointing. The experience in the scheme angle is real, but the dudes talent is elite. 

[Mr. Sinister]

6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

If Haskins doesn’t clearly and emphatically cement himself as the best QB that’s be somewhat disappointing. The experience in the scheme angle is real, but the dudes talent is elite. 

 

The thing we should all be worried about, is the "Owners boy" narrative, that even if he cleanly beats out everyone, that narrative will come screaming out of nowhere.

[wit33]

31 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

The thing we should all be worried about, is the "Owners boy" narrative, that even if he cleanly beats out everyone, that narrative will come screaming out of nowhere.

I’m not too worried about that with Rivera running things, but totally get what you’re saying. Rivera can careless about about all that, IMO. The best players will play. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, wit33 said:

If Haskins doesn’t clearly and emphatically cement himself as the best QB that’d be somewhat disappointing. The experience in the scheme angle is real, but the dudes talent is elite. 

 

Personally, my main reservation of dubbing Haskins talent as elite is pocket mobility, ability to make throws when he's moving in the pocket laterally and his accuracy outside the numbers.  

 

But as pure arm talent, he definitely has a gun.  Quick release.  Good accuracy in between the numbers.

 

Listening to Keim's podcast where he interviewed the guy working with Haskins this off season has gotten me jazzed some.   He said the biggest improvement you will see from Haskins this season is mobility and pocket movement.  

 

I wondered about that recently and made comments on this thread as for mobility considering he seems to be such good shape.  But its good to hear from someone who has worked with him for years saying its markedly improved. 

[Conn]

I agree that that is definitely what you want to hear, but also want to point out the inherent bias of the guy being paid by Haskins to work out all offseason then pimping the good job he's done with Haskins lol. 

[Riggo-toni]

14 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

If you truly believe that about Gibbs/Vinny then you must attribute all personnel moves from that time period to Gibbs, which means you must think he's very poor in that department? 

Yes, in fact I do.  This is the same man who pushed out Beathard to trade a king's ransom for an over the hill Gerald Riggs, traded 2 first rounders to draft Desmond Howard, traded future SB QB Stan Humphries to draft a punter who got cut in camp...

Gibbs is one of the greatest coaches of all time, but personnel was his only weak spot. Fortunately we had the best GM in football with Beathard, and an owner with the deepest pockets in a pre-cap era.

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Personally, my main reservation of dubbing Haskins talent as elite is pocket mobility, ability to make throws when he's moving in the pocket laterally and his accuracy outside the numbers.  
 

 

I agree with you on those areas being critical variables. Haskins provides the possibility of all things you listed to become reality. There’s layers to being elite (as you accurately pointed out) and I probably shouldn’t throw the word elite as willfully as I do with Haskins, but I’m excited about the potential. 
 

I don’t think he has just a good or great arm, it’s Marino, Mahomes, Favre, or dare I say Jeff George special. If he puts up a good season his arm will begin to receive much more attention rivaling that of Mahomes. “Poor mans Mahomes@ is what I’m hoping for. I actually think he’s much more polished than Mahomes though. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But as pure arm talent, he definitely has a gun.  Quick release.  Good accuracy in between the numbers.

 

Would you say one of the best in the league? Arm talent?

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Listening to Keim's podcast where he interviewed the guy working with Haskins this off season has gotten me jazzed some.   He said the biggest improvement you will see from Haskins this season is mobility and pocket movement.  
 

 

I was one that didn’t mind the extra weight, especially with him showing he could still move and create. With that said, who’s not all in on the dude trying to be his best self and getting into great shape. 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I wondered about that recently and made comments on this thread as for mobility considering he seems to be such good shape.  But its good to hear from someone who has worked with him for years saying its markedly improved. 

I’m more excited to see if it’s increased his flexibility and help with accuracy on the run. 

[Conn]

21 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

Yes, in fact I do.  This is the same man who pushed out Beathard to trade a king's ransom for an over the hill Gerald Riggs, traded 2 first rounders to draft Desmond Howard, traded future SB QB Stan Humphries to draft a punter who got cut in camp...

Gibbs is one of the greatest coaches of all time, but personnel was his only weak spot. Fortunately we had the best GM in football with Beathard, and an owner with the deepest pockets in a pre-cap era.

 

That's totally fair, I was just hoping to see the consistency, and it's there. 

 

I disagree on the power balance and responsibilities they had but we can't be sure either way I guess. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Riggo-toni said:

Yes, in fact I do.  This is the same man who pushed out Beathard to trade a king's ransom for an over the hill Gerald Riggs, traded 2 first rounders to draft Desmond Howard, traded future SB QB Stan Humphries to draft a punter who got cut in camp...

Gibbs is one of the greatest coaches of all time, but personnel was his only weak spot. Fortunately we had the best GM in football with Beathard, and an owner with the deepest pockets in a pre-cap era.

 

Yup.

 

Gibbs and Beathard notoriously did not see eye to eye.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

I don’t think he has just a good or great arm, it’s Marino, Mahomes, Favre, or dare I say Jeff George special. If

Would you say one of the best in the league? Arm talent?

 

 

I've read mixed things about his arm.   Most of it centered on him having a strong arm but not super strong.  But, it's a strong arm indeed.  I don't think it's elite arm strength though.  I thought Lock had better arm strength from the last draft. 

 

To use a baseball analogy.  Haskins strikes me as a dude with a 93 mile an hour fastball.  but he's not a Nolan Ryan or G. Cole 96 MPH elite level. 

 

The thing that gets me jazzed about Haskins though leading into this year is this:

 

There is a lot of evidence that Haskins has matured both as to his work ethic and also into getting into remarkable shape.   I think we are about to get the best of Haskins and a peg better than both Ohio State and last season here.

 

So it wouldn't shock me if he's faster and his arm strength is even better.  But no I don't think he had one of the strongest arms in the league where it was elite level.  But I do think it was really good.  And potentially the bigger, bader, faster Haskins might turn into having an elite arm. 

 

I agree with your general point that Haskins could have a high ceiling. 

 

3 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I was one that didn’t mind the extra weight, especially with him showing he could still move and create. With that said, who’s not all in on the dude trying to be his best self and getting into great shape. 

I’m more excited to see if it’s increased his flexibility and help with accuracy on the run. 

 

For me, I think he might actually have above average mobility if he's in top shape.  His QB coach this off season alluded to such and if so to me that's big.

[wit33]

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've read mixed things about his arm.   Most of it centered on him having a strong arm but not super strong.  But, it's a strong arm indeed.  I don't think it's elite arm strength though.  I thought Lock had better arm strength from the last draft. 
 

 

Admittedly, I’m speaking without a full spectrum of knowledge to really compare, but do feel his arm is up there with guys like Stafford, Newton, and Mahomes. Definitely can be pushed off this point, but if success comes his way more love nationally about his arm talent will surface, IMO. 
 

 

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

To use a baseball analogy.  Haskins strikes me as a dude with a 93 mile an hour fastball.  but he's not a Nolan Ryan or G. Cole 96 MPH elite level. 
 

 

It could be something like this. 
 

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The thing that gets me jazzed about Haskins though leading into this year is this:

 

There is a lot of evidence that Haskins has matured both as to his work ethic and also into getting into remarkable shape.   I think we are about to get the best of Haskins and a peg better than both Ohio State and last season here.

 

The off season stuff has been great to see. Learning how to be a pro and establishing a system that works for him. 
 

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree with your general point that Haskins could have a high ceiling. 

 

 

For me, I think he might actually have above average mobility if he's in top shape.  His QB coach this off season alluded to such and if so to me that's big.

Do they in workouts time the QBs fastball or is these extracted from in game? 

[Anselmheifer]

39 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Do they in workouts time the QBs fastball or is these extracted from in game? 

It doesn’t matter. These numbers mean nothing. Cousins threw 59mph at the combine. Was his arm better than Lock’s and almost as good as Mahomes’? A bunch of guys threw faster than Lock. But he definitely had the best arm in that draft class. I don’t think they’ve figured out how to measure arm strength in a meaningful way, statistically speaking. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

It doesn’t matter. These numbers mean nothing. Cousins threw 59mph at the combine. Was his arm better than Lock’s and almost as good as Mahomes’? A bunch of guys threw faster than Lock. But he definitely had the best arm in that draft class. I don’t think they’ve figured out how to measure arm strength in a meaningful way, statistically speaking. 

 

Agree with this.  Tough to measure.

 

As a lay person, my best go of it is watching camp.  I've seen a lot of Kirk, Colt, and Haskins in camp.  And you can watch them throw again and again and again in that setting.

 

My impressions of that.  Haskins has the best arm strength, a peg higher than Kirk.  Kirk is at least 2 pegs higher than Colt.  you can see it with Colt that he doesn't have an NFL arm.  None of these three though struck me with elite Jeff George-Elway kind of arm strength.  Going back to me baseball analogy.  Colt maybe has an 80 MPH fastball.  Kirk 90.  Dwayne 93.  Sudfeld oddly enough had a decent arm or so it looked to me, maybe 88?  😀  Though Jay kept riding him in the camp I saw a lot of him.  It didn't shock me that he bolted to the Eagles after that camp.  

 

Kirk through from what I saw threw a better deep ball in camp.  The odd thing that Haskins is for a dude with a big arm his deep ball was somewhat flat and often was under thrown.  Kirk's problem was the opposite at times, almost too much arc and would overthrow them.  Colt would struggle to put much mustard on his throws, he'd have to throw his whole body into the throw.

 

Where you'd see Haskins arm strength was via the intermediate throws, he could put some serious mustard on them right or left.  To the point of this guy below, that's how it came off to me as to Haskins in camp.  You'd see the arm strength on some throws and some throws not so much.

 

Part of what gets me jazzed of him working like a maniac is Haskins to me had some rawness in camp from what i observed.  So if the dude refines his skills (and it sounds like he's doing just that), I think we will see his full potential.   They showed one throw recently on twitter of Haskins cranking out a deep ball and it looked better than any throw of his I witnessed in camp. 

 

https://medium.com/@thetim_dix/video-analysis-dwayne-haskins-arm-strength-release-time-and-decision-making-measured-14eb82d6ff6e

It might just be a function of knowing his own limitations, but Haskins never really looks like he’s throwing the ball as hard as he can. Of all the plays I tracked, the fastest launch velocity he used was about 56 miles per hour. If that is his maximum launch velocity, it would put him behind Kyler Murray (57 MPH), on par with Mitchell Trubisky (56 MPH), and ahead of Deshaun Watson (54 MPH). These numbers have been calculated from game footage using video analysis and physics. And as I said in my Kyler Murray breakdown, I don’t trust throw velocity numbers from the NFL Combine. Radar guns often give inconsistent readings on footballs. Again, Cody Kessler’s arm is nowhere near as strong as Pat Mahomes’, but the numbers from the radar gun at the combine say otherwise.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

56 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Kirk through from what I saw threw a better deep ball in camp.  The odd thing that Haskins is for a dude with a big arm his deep ball was somewhat flat and often was under thrown.  Kirk's problem was the opposite at times, almost too much arc and would overthrow them.  Colt would struggle to put much mustard on his throws, he'd have to throw his whole body into the throw.

 

Too much arc and overthrowing is not an example of arm strength unless the ball is going 70 yards in the air.  More arc = less juice required to make it go far.

 

Flatter deep throws are an example of relying too much on arm strength.  It's situational and for most QB's, not ideal.  Haskins has enough arm to turn some sideline throws into closing windows with a flat/tight spiral.  Kirk can't do that.  He had to try and drop it into a bucket.  I think that's why the team went after Josh Doctson, he excelled at high pointing when he can track high arcs and adjust.

[Burgundy Yoda]

This picture blows my mind, Dwayne deserves recognition for his transformation. One of the most impressive ones I've seen an NFL player make.