FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[ExoDus84]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Not having a full week to prepare because he came off the bench? The Steelers have a dude named Duck starting right now who is looking more pro-ready.

 

And the bads we saw were pretty bad.

 

If Hall wants to help him, he may not want to add stuff like that to an already tense situation.

 

Honestly, with a full week of prep, I'm sure Dwayne's 20% interception rate would drop significantly, probably to somewhere closer to 16-18%.

[Hazel-Ra]

Wow... I actually skipped the game last night and went to a play with my wife... had a wonderful evening.

 

My DVR records all Skins games however, and so now I may have to watch this game and see what this kid did to get a large portion of this board in line with BanEuphemisticFans bust prediction.

[skinsmania123]

27 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

People... stop with the excuses. Haskins has screwed himself just as much as the organization has screwed Haskins. It's a two way street. And both ways have gaping holes in the asphalt that we're all falling into to defend our own positions.

 

The situation is on the FO. And shouldn't be forgotten or forgiven.

 

But now it starts with Haskins, though. Show some interest if you want to improve.

Whose the leader of the team? The coach right?

 

  So your telling me that he neither HC Callahan, nor the OC, or even HC Gruden when he was there did not make it abundantly clear what he should or shouldn't be doing? 

 

 You do realize that what you are basically saying is that this rookie is being left to his own devices.  That makes no sense.  No HC coach is going to let any player, let alone a rookie, do whatever they want to do.  It would be conduct detrimental to the team.

 

Talk about conjecture. Man. I am not making excuses the point is we have no idea what is going on with Haskins and what his coach or coaches have told him to do or not do.  

 

And no, I am not writing him off as a bust,  but I do not think and I have said this in numerous posts that he should have been picked in the first round.  But I also believe he should be in every game now going forward to see if he can develop. 

 

 

[KDawg]

Just now, skinsmania123 said:

Whose the leader of the team? The coach right?

 

  So your telling me that he neither HC Callahan, nor the OC, or even HC Gruden when he was there did not make it abundantly clear what he should or shouldn't be doing? 

 

 You do realize that what you are basically saying is that this rookie is being left to his own devices.  That makes no sense.  No HC coach is going to let any player, let alone a rookie, do whatever they want to do.  It would be conduct detrimental to the team.

 

Talk about conjecture. Man. I am not making excuses the point is we have no idea what is going on with Haskins and what his coach or coaches have told him to do or not do.  

 

And no, I am not writing him off as a bust,  but I do not think and I have said this in numerous posts that he should have been picked in the first round.  But I also believe he should be in every game now going forward to see if he can develop. 

 

 

 

That's not conjecture. That's self motivation. Franchise QBs need it. That's something you learn at a young age.

[skinsmania123]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

That's not conjecture. That's self motivation. Franchise QBs need it. That's something you learn at a young age.

You have no idea what he is doing behind the scenes.  It is reported he watches a lot of film, and is very involved, and puts in a lot of time.  I don't see his teammates doing anything but supporting him.  Most guys snub the lazy guys or guys getting special treatment like RG3.

 

 Lets get the kid in a few games before we drive out the bust train.  I am NOT saying he won't be a bust, many rookie QB's are,  I am saying we don't  know.   And we certainly do not know what he has been told to do or not do.

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

You have no idea what he is doing behind the scenes.  It is reported he watches a lot of film, and is very involved, and puts in a lot of time.  I don't see his teammates doing anything but supporting him.  Most guys snub the lazy guys or guys getting special treatment like RG3.

 

 Lets get the kid in a few games before we drive out the bust train.  I am NOT saying he won't be a bust, many rookie QB's are,  I am saying we don't  know.   And we certainly do not know what he has been told to do or not do.

If you think I’m in the bust train, re-read my posts man. I’m not. Some of this stuff defending him is ridiculous though

[SoCalSkins]

32 minutes ago, hawgboy said:

Wow... I actually skipped the game last night and went to a play with my wife... had a wonderful evening.

 

My DVR records all Skins games however, and so now I may have to watch this game and see what this kid did to get a large portion of this board in line with BanEuphemisticFans bust prediction.

It was the first ever Redskins 4K broadcast. You can see his apathy on display in great detail in the first half sideline shots.  You can also note the lack of a tablet in his hand the entire time he’s on the sideline. No interest in what’s unfolding. No interest in the defenses the Vikings are scheming even though he is a play away from entering the game. 
 

Then his unfounded confidence gets irreparably shattered when he throws the pick after he enters the game: It’s a lesson on how not to prepare to enter a game in the NFL. Pretty much on the level of an SNL skit on what not to do...

[wit33]

This lazy/doesn’t study monicker is damning to everyone’s perception. Hard for someone to escape this sort of word association. All the while trying to establish self in the NFL.

Erik Flowers did it short time though  

[SoCalSkins]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

This lazy/doesn’t study monicker is damning to everyone’s perception. Hard for someone to escape this sort of word association. All the while trying to establish self in the NFL.

Erik Flowers did it short time though  

Maybe Haskins can do even less cardio. Add 60 to 80 pounds of weight and switch to guard. Has a much more likely chance of success than sticking with QB. Callahan is a miracle worker with o line....

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Xameil]

6 hours ago, ananoman said:

 

 

 

 

So far from our limited sample size, Haskins is not looking even close to what Manning looked like in his rookie season

As I said...if memory serves me...I never said I had a good memory...

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

If you think I’m in the bust train, re-read my posts man. I’m not. Some of this stuff defending him is ridiculous though

There's a difference between defending him and not creating false narratives based on a couple of glances of him on the sidelines.

 

All the coaches talk about how he wants to learn and he's trying to be a good teammate yet for some reason he's been made out as lazy, disinterested and delusional because there's an occasional shot of him on the sidelines not burying his head in a tablet every second he's not on the field. 

 

There seems to be an all-or-nothing mindset here where he's either going to be good immediately or he's going to be a bust and whenever someone makes up their own mind on where they stand there is absolutely nothing anyone, including Dwayne himself, can do to change that outlook. 

[KDawg]

That’s absolutely not what I’M doing. But I can’t speak for others. 
 

But if the argument is that body language doesn’t matter, why is it a popular topic of conversation? Why do we watch others humans body language all the time in life? Body language is important.

 

Im sure you’ve played on a team in some sport where there’s that one teammate who just has that look on his face all game. Or his posture is off. And it drives you insane. I know I have.

 

People we’re always up in arms for Gruden’s body language. 
 

Pointing out his body language sucks doesn’t mean I’m making a prediction that says because his body language sucks he’s going to. But in conjunction with his lack of improvements in any part of his game that we’ve seen thus far, it all ties together nicely.

 

This isn’t a false narrative. My eyes are seeing what they are seeing. Could there be other stuff behind the scenes? Absolutely. But I can’t see that. Neither can you. And there’s reports coming out both ways on Haskins.

 

My point is and has been “wait and see what happens” with him. He deserves the season at minimum. No reason to label him a bust or a potential franchise QB. Just let it play out.

[NoCalMike]

Has anyone watched extended amounts of Daniel Jones so far?  (I haven't which is why I am asking).  He hasn't exactly been lighting it up either.

 

Here is a question I have.

 

What makes Haskins that much different from RG3 as a rookie?  Was RG3's early success solely because the Shanahan's devised a great scheme that took advantage of what he did in college?  I am not necessarily talking about his running, but he was able to make a lot of quality passes/completions in his rookie season.  While he ultimately didn't pan out because he couldn't evolve his game once defenses were able to better defend the RPO,  if you go back to his rookie season he wasn't just a runner, he made plenty of passes too. A lot of it was quick 3 step drops, 1st read & out......remember how RG3 to Fred Davis was pretty much a safety outlet pass in the seam and almost always worked? 

Where is that kind of design for Haskins?  Now I agree the major difference here is that Robert was the planned starter from the day he was drafted so there was likely more resources put into him being successful, but at the same time there is enough of a coaching staff, and with Haskins as the backup and always being 1 snap away from being in the game, you would think there would be some kind of bigger effort to have a modified playbook or specific set of plays that cater to what they think he can currently do.

 

I don't want to put this all on the coaches, the eye test shows that Haskins is obviously not read to go out and win games for the team, but I also think there has to be a better strategy to be had that would better prepare him for when he does get into the game.

 

[PartyPosse]

I've yet to hear one report that he has no interest in learning and wanting to get better nor have I heard one report of him dogging coaching. The only times i've ever heard of any of this is here on ES or a couple of junkies on twitter looking to stir up controversy based off what they see. 

 

I wasn't pin-pointing you per se, just the overall narrative that seems to be developing here in conjunction with how his game has been. Chances are he never will get better if he's only coming in out of the blue once every few weeks. He's not getting reps with 1, he's not getting any sort of ability to get up to speed with the NFL and, as someone who has played organized sports (I was a back-up goaltender in Montreal), it's hard to just find a rhythm when your just coming in out of the blue. Hockey is an easier sport to acclimate to as a goalie because the play isn't always reliant on you so it's easier to ease yourself into the game flow. As a QB, when you come in and suddenly everything is centralized around you and your ability to process EVERYTHING happening within 40 seconds, it's easy to find yourself in quicksand. Daniel Jones, when he came in, found a rhythm early and carried it for a game before completely falling off a cliff (honestly, his numbers since the TB game have been atrocious and we as a community would be piling onto him if he was here and putting up the kind of numbers he's been putting up the last few games). He was also able to come in and thrive in that situation because he WAS more NFL-ready than DH is. This is why I'm ok with him not playing at all this year and letting him sit on the bench and watch. I'd rather he not come in halfway during games because we'll never know what kind of QB he can be if he's not able to spend time with the offense and learn with them. This isn't a sprint, but a marathon. We've unfortunately come to expect instant gratification from every player that comes in and if they don't give what we feel we're entitled to then they're immediately thrown into the pit of failure. Some players are drafted because of talent and others are drafted because of how ready they are to make the transition to the NFL. I don't think a player should be judged because it takes them a little more time to get up to snuff. We as a team are in the perfect position to ease him in because we're not going anywhere anytime soon. Why push a guy off a cliff instead of letting him get used to the height? 

8 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

What makes Haskins that much different from RG3 as a rookie?  Was RG3's early success solely because the Shanahan's devised a great scheme that took advantage of what he did in college?  I am not necessarily talking about his running, but he was able to make a lot of quality passes/completions in his rookie season.  While he ultimately didn't pan out because he couldn't evolve his game once defenses were able to better defend the RPO,  if you go back to his rookie season he wasn't just a runner, he made plenty of passes too. A lot of it was quick 3 step drops, 1st read & out......remember how RG3 to Fred Davis was pretty much a safety outlet pass in the seam and almost always worked? 

The Pistol offense was a relative novelty in the NFL at the time so defenses didn't know how to prepare for it. Once they figured it out RG3 was doomed.

[tmandoug1]

Board is exploding over 22 passes.....I jumped on the train last night after he didnt change the play when #55 for the Vikings basically told him "I'm blitzing dude". His pick......not a good throw at all but it was over a defender in a hole to TMac. He did however throw a sidearm ball to AP...yes almost picked but he was successful. Needs work....just need to get Callahan to play him. Season is over, put him out there and make his ass learn.

[NoCalMike]

29 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

 

The Pistol offense was a relative novelty in the NFL at the time so defenses didn't know how to prepare for it. Once they figured it out RG3 was doomed.

 

I understand that aspect of it, the pistol offense. However, I am referring to actual passes he made.  It's not like RG3 couldn't pass the ball at all.   The Shanahans seemed to have a lot of plays designed to benefit a QB making the transition from college.   

[Renegade7]

37 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I don't want to put this all on the coaches, the eye test shows that Haskins is obviously not read to go out and win games for the team, but I also think there has to be a better strategy to be had that would better prepare him for when he does get into the game.

 

 

This is a big reason why I'm defending him because its jus not right that it took this long for him to get first team reps or this insistence to keep the whole playbook open.

 

Haslet used the same system the Steelers did, but different players said was the Steelers used it to put players in best position to be successful they could. Haz on the other hand would call the play and blame the players for not executing it properly. 

 

Gibbs won super bowls by changing how he interpreted and used the air coryell offense, the Patriots playbook and identity focuses on goals such as taking away what you do best and attacking what you do worst. We've had a lot of coaches lately try to prove they are right instead of doing the right thing lately, and it leads to us getting merciously outcoached for years now.

[PartyPosse]

23 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I understand that aspect of it, the pistol offense. However, I am referring to actual passes he made.  It's not like RG3 couldn't pass the ball at all.   The Shanahans seemed to have a lot of plays designed to benefit a QB making the transition from college.   

Because he ran 80% of the time so DL had to stay back and LB had to stay shallower. Gave RG3 more time to move around and at a certain point corners just can’t keep up with receivers.

[RandyHolt]

Its so bizarre to think he can go from 50 TD passes to 50 INTs... almost such that I don't believe it.

 

Even against cupcake defenses in college with all scrubs with no future on defense, his arm was still utilizing a functioning motion such that he could complete passes.

 

If they are re-inventing his throwing motion we should expect things ugahlee for the foreseeable future.

 

Its too bad Callahan doesn't want to play him.  Its also too bad that Haskins looks about as interested in learning as Callahan is in playing him. Hold a surface once in a while?

 

It sucks he didn't let Haskins chuck one deep to McLaurin despite losing the entire time. Don't say he didn't have the time. Callahan can make time. Its called Max Protect. Rolling out. 3 Step loft fades.  Callahan is simply not the coach for Haskins. 

 

[Hooper]

The idea of telling another prospective head coach who their QB is going to be as a condition of the job... I mean, nothing ever changes.

 

We simply have to play Haskins the rest of the way to see if he starts to grasp things and gets more comfortable. 

 

I don't care that he is looked lost and disinterested. So did Brett Favre. Some guys can't engage unless they are the man. Others are super focused on the sidelines. Can't put all QBs in the same box. 

 

 

[Redskin4ever]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I understand that aspect of it, the pistol offense. However, I am referring to actual passes he made.  It's not like RG3 couldn't pass the ball at all.   The Shanahans seemed to have a lot of plays designed to benefit a QB making the transition from college.   

 

The Shanahans found ways to accentuate his strengths. They ran plays that fit what he could do well, and avoided those he couldn't. And yes, running was a big part of that. If you look at the rookie QBs that do well early, most do so because they are able to use their legs. They use that to mask their weaknesses as pocket passers. The best ones figure out the passing as they go along and realize it's a way to protect their body.  Marcus Mariotta is an example of a guy who has never figured out how to get past that initial state and develop. 

 

But I think the point you are getting at is that they tailored the game plan to get the most from him. And yes, that's what good coaches do, regardless of who they have. Whether it's Haskins, Keenum, or McCoy, the coaches need to maximize their skill sets. 

[Sonny9TD]

7 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

   I don’t think the story on Haskins is written by any stretch.  

 

Yea we can write the story and put it on the shelves. Haskins will never be a QB you can rely on to get it done. Never. Once again another failure in the draft room. Haskins isn't even a decent backup. The only thing he could do for you is throw it in the end zone from his own 40 yard line on 4th down with 3 seconds left on a hail mary attempt. Other than that Haskins is a bust.  It's clear to see. Making excuses for him is utter fantasy.  He just doesn't have it. He will ad lib every play hoping he can find someone wide open like he had it at Ohio State. Those days are over and they aint coming back. Thanks Danny. Trifling meddler

[tacosman]

I've thought a lot more about this over the last day, and made a list of all the teams and who I would trade haskins for at qb right now.  That considers everything- current talent, future, age, cap hit, ceiling/floor, how many years left, etc.....

 

and I didn't think this would be the case, but to be honest there weren't a heck of a lot of teams top qbs I would trade haskins for when considering everything.

 

Giants- No, DJ looks terrible to me now and has a lower floor.  Haskins was much better last year than Jones at Duke, even taking teammate talent out of equation.

Philly- tossup.  Not completely sold on Wentz like some are and he has huge cap number going forward. 

Dallas- No, don't like Dak and he is about to get paid

Atlanta- No.  Ryan aging, doesn't have but a few prime years left, and top 5 cap number

New Orleans- No.  their starter is 40

Carolina- No. Allen is like a 6th round pick and that's fools gold now so no.  And Cam(if we pick him) can't stay on the field.

Tampa- No. Jameis Winston nuff said.  On or off the field

Chicago- No.  Trubisky honestly looks almost as bad as Haskins now...and he is in year 3

Minnesota- No, been there done that.  Haskins has higher ceiling and doesn't cost almost 30 mill a year now

Green Bay- toss up.  Yeah Rodgers a lot better now.  He's also 35.  Again, I am saying Rodgers is significantly better now that's why I said toss up.  If he were 32 I would give him edge

Detroit- No.  Stafford has top 5 cap number and has been mediocre for a career.  Volume stats.

San Fran- No.  Is anyone really buying JimmyG, especially at that cap number?

Seattle- Yes.  Wilson is better, a lot better now, and still 30 so some good years left

LA Rams- No.  This is debatable I guess, but I don't believe in Goff at all.

Arizona- tossup.  Lots of questions for Murray just as there are for Haskins

New England- No.  Better than Haskins right now?  Sure...he's also 42

NY jets- tossup.  Lots of questions with Darnold...see the NE game?

Buffalo- No.  Josh Allen not a capable passer and can't be,  Haskins *might* be able to be one

Miami- No.  Rosen was Haskins last year and it's year 2.  If haskins doesn't improve over the next 16 games then would be tossup

Baltimore- Yes.  I have questions about Lamar's passing but would still trade

Pittsburgh- No.  Ben ancient and fading and hurt

Cleveland- Yes, but still some questions there even

Cincinatti- No.  Dalton is mediocre at best, we've seen the best of him, and big cap hit

LA chargers- No.  Rivers ancient(and fading)

Kansas City- yes

Denver- No.  Flacco aging and playing poorly, getting worse

Oakland- No.  Carr pricey, overrated and not getting better

Indianapolis- No since Luck retired

Tennessee- No to both Tannehill and Mariota

Houston- yes

Jacksonville- No.  Minshew fools gold and was a 6th round pick.  to the extent he has flashed a little the limitations are there and he will not keep it going

 

So out of all the other teams, I believe we have a better dude going forward(again considering everything) than  the great majority of teams.  There are 4-5 that I would take in place of DH with a few toss ups

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PartyPosse]

7 minutes ago, Sonny9TD said:

 

Yea we can write the story and put it on the shelves. Haskins will never be a QB you can rely on to get it done. Never. Once again another failure in the draft room. Haskins isn't even a decent backup. The only thing he could do for you is throw it in the end zone from his own 40 yard line on 4th down with 3 seconds left on a hail mary attempt. Other than that Haskins is a bust.  It's clear to see. Making excuses for him is utter fantasy.  He just doesn't have it. He will ad lib every play hoping he can find someone wide open like he had it at Ohio State. Those days are over and they aint coming back. Thanks Danny. Trifling meddler

Step off the ledge, Nostradamus.