2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

- Kinlaw is such an unbelievably wide body for carrying so little bad bulk.  His arms are as big as a fairly large man's legs.  He is a John Henderson clone.  "The Mountain That Runs."  I think him, Chase, and Simmons are some of the most interesting freak of nature players that have come out in years.  Top ten is definitely achievable for him.  Young, Epenesa, Gross-Matos, Brown, and Kinlaw makes this first round DL crop very respectable. 

 

 

The most overlooked end/edge, Curtis Weaver, will be a dominant player in the league, imo.

 

 

[volsmet]

 

Some love for Gandy-Golden, I suspect he will impress more as he gets acclimated to being challenged by better athletes each day.

 

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

I liked what I just saw from Harrison Bryant, we definitely need someone with reliable hands besides McLaurin. 2nd round always seems to be a hot zone for TE's, a lot of teams seem to think they always get value with them in that round. He's a guy I'm now hoping somehow makes it to our pick in the 3rd. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I liked what I just saw from Harrison Bryant, we definitely need someone with reliable hands besides McLaurin. 2nd round always seems to be a hot zone for TE's, a lot of teams seem to think they always get value with them in that round. He's a guy I'm now hoping somehow makes it to our pick in the 3rd. 

 

I've watched Harrison Bryant some per senior bowl and I like him. I am not sold on him as a blocker but he's a willing blocker so maybe he can grow into it.  Brycen Hopkins though seems like a clone of Harrison, another good pass catcher, willing blocker but not IMO a good blocker just yet.

 

Then you got Pinkney who is also of that same mold, maybe a better blocker by a peg than those 2 but I like the other two more as pass catchers. I'd put Pinkney maybe a half a peg below Harrison and Hopkins overall but I noticed some have Pinkney ahead.

 

Then you got Trautman, Kmet.  Trautman is raw but impressive. Some team is going to draft Hunter Bryant.   Some might like Moss but I might be hesitant considering his injury history.  I haven't watched Okuwegbunam yet or Parkinson.  My point is I think we will have one of these guys fall to the third especially where we are picking, pick #2.   

 

TIGHT END STATS
PLAYER	TEAM	GP	REC	REYD	REYR	RETD
Harrison Bryant	Florida Atlantic	13	65	1004	15.4	7
Brycen Hopkins	Purdue	11	61	830	13.6	7
Hunter Bryant	Washington	12	52	825	15.9	3
Kylen Granson	SMU	12	43	721	16.8	9
Charlie Kolar	Iowa State	13	51	697	13.7	7
Matt Bushman	BYU	12	47	688	14.6	4
Kyle Pitts	Florida	13	54	649	12.0	5
Giovanni Ricci	Western Michigan	13	51	642	12.6	8
Devin Asiasi	UCLA	12	44	641	14.6	4
Peyton Hendershot	Indiana	13	52	622	12.0	4
Brant Kuithe	Utah	14	34	602	17.7	6
Colby Parkinson	Stanford	12	48	589	12.3	1
Thaddeus Moss	LSU	12	47	570	12.1	4
Josh Pederson	Louisiana-Monroe	12	43	567	13.2	9
Trey McBride	Colorado State	12	45	560	12.4	4
Armani Levias	Marshall	13	46	553	12.0	3
Cole Kmet	Notre Dame	10	43	515	12.0	6

[JamesMadisonSkins]

One of these TEs will be there when we pick in Round 3. Probably Round 4 too. If we stick with what we have, I could see us go:

1. Chase

3. Bryant / Trautman

4. LB

4. WR

5. OT

7. RB

7. DB

 

i also think we create another pick. Whether that’s trading down in 3 and adding a 4 or in round 4 and getting a late 4 or 5. 

[Skinsinparadise]

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/2020-senior-bowl-day-one-south-practice-offense-recap

TIGHT ENDS

Best player: Harrison Bryant, Florida Atlantic

The reigning winner of the John Mackey Award (given to the best tight end in the nation), Harrison Bryant entered the Senior Bowl with plenty of hype. Measuring nearly 6-foot-5 and weighing 242 pounds, those measurements were seen as a big win for him. Many wondered just how much does he weigh, but despite that and play strength concerns, he managed to piece together a successful first practice.

Flash play 

Bryant was matched up against former Lenoir-Rhyne safety Kyle Dugger and ran a seam pattern that checked a lot of the boxes. He was forced to fight with his hands through contact on his way down the seam and managed to avoid a collision with the former Division II standout by showing off his ability to execute a swim move to make a routine catch from Herbert. 

[mhd24]

Daniel Jeremiah with his first mock
 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001097592/article/daniel-jeremiah-2020-nfl-mock-draft-10-four-qbs-in-top-15

[Rogue Jedi]

What are people’s thoughts on a late round flyer with Khalil Tate?

[50yrSKINSfan]

16 hours ago, oraphus said:

i don't understand all the fluff here.. 

1. Lions love Stanford and dont need a QB, if they were to trade for #2 (which would be incredibly stupid) it would be to get Chase, but their Oline sucks so they can sit at 3 and get the best O tackle or trade back with Miami and still get one of the top oline prospects.

2. Miami can most likely sit at #5 and still get TUA. But if they get a bug up their butt they can move to pick 3 Via Lions...

     a. then they could possibly trade up to 2 with Skins to insure they get Tua and Skins will do the deal because they are assured of getting Chase - but i see very little value for Miami to do this since they know Skins love Chase and wont draft Tua, also 99% sure they wont trade pick to any other team since they would lose chase

You have to let people think you are interested in Tua if you want to get a haul of picks, but with his injury history his value is limited. What would be the most he is worth? There are a lot of free agent vet QBs available this year again lowering Tuas value. I still think we should consider Tua because were we really impressed with Haskins? If we drafted Tua we could have 2 potential QB starters. Either would be worth draft capital in the future. I would trade the #2 pick in a heartbeat if I could get the Safety from Clem and the CB from Ohio state. When I think of last season I just see us getting gashed in the run game. Is CY going to help us that much with that? Do you really see him coming in and abusing the Cowboy O line, lol. Really torn between getting 3 good players, that is if we can get a deal, or one really good pass rusher. Why is Clowney on his third team? Why was that kid from the Raiders traded to the Bears and did he really help them that much? Yes Smith did a good job after being traded to the Pack but what did he do to the 49s? Yes CY if he is the real deal could help us but do you see him bringing our D up from what it was to the top 10? I do not but 3 players plus Foster could bring us up a ton. Get the CB from OS, LB from Clem and a free agent that I would rather do without if pos and my guess you would improve your D just as much if not better than if you picked CY. One guy is too easy to plan around and add the injury potential for one guy verses 3. Cheers.

[OVCChairman]

18 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

You have to let people think you are interested in Tua if you want to get a haul of picks, but with his injury history his value is limited. What would be the most he is worth? There are a lot of free agent vet QBs available this year again lowering Tuas value. I still think we should consider Tua because were we really impressed with Haskins? If we drafted Tua we could have 2 potential QB starters. Either would be worth draft capital in the future. I would trade the #2 pick in a heartbeat if I could get the Safety from Clem and the CB from Ohio state. When I think of last season I just see us getting gashed in the run game. Is CY going to help us that much with that? Do you really see him coming in and abusing the Cowboy O line, lol. Really torn between getting 3 good players, that is if we can get a deal, or one really good pass rusher. Why is Clowney on his third team? Why was that kid from the Raiders traded to the Bears and did he really help them that much? Yes Smith did a good job after being traded to the Pack but what did he do to the 49s? Yes CY if he is the real deal could help us but do you see him bringing our D up from what it was to the top 10? I do not but 3 players plus Foster could bring us up a ton. Get the CB from OS, LB from Clem and a free agent that I would rather do without if pos and my guess you would improve your D just as much if not better than if you picked CY. One guy is too easy to plan around and add the injury potential for one guy verses 3. Cheers.

 

 

It would be a Draft Day movie type miracle to end up with both Simmons and Okudah.  It's possible they are both gone top 5... almost guaranteed both gone top 10.  IMHO if we take Young, Okudah goes 3 (Detroit) and Simmons goes anywhere from 4 - 9.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

If you want Simmons and Okudah it’s possible. But you’d need to trade 2 to Miami for 5+18+26. 
 

Okudah has a better chance of falling to 8/9. So you could take Simmons at 5 and trade back up for Okudah. Not sure I like that though. I’d rather have Young 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

If you want Simmons and Okudah it’s possible. But you’d need to trade 2 to Miami for 5+18+26. 
 

Okudah has a better chance of falling to 8/9. So you could take Simmons at 5 and trade back up for Okudah. Not sure I like that though. I’d rather have Young 

 

Who knows what they know but judging by mocks (including DJ's from yesterday) its Simmons who has the better shot of falling.  Okudah is really solidying himself in mocks at #3.  I see him at #3 a lot.  Simmons i rarely even see in the top 5.

 

Mocks right now don't mean much so obviously the buzz about these players will change.  But Okudah right now seems to be getting a lot of buzz at #3.  

[Ghedrick]

30 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

If you want Simmons and Okudah it’s possible. But you’d need to trade 2 to Miami for 5+18+26. 
 

Okudah has a better chance of falling to 8/9. So you could take Simmons at 5 and trade back up for Okudah. Not sure I like that though. I’d rather have Young 

I see it the other way around Okudah is going in the top five he is a premiere talent at premium position .Simmons is ss/lb which is not a valued position especially in draft like this one that has star power at premium positions.Also the draft is loaded with top notch talent at OT and I could easliy see 3 going in the top ten.This league is starving for quality OT's.

[50yrSKINSfan]

1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

It would be a Draft Day movie type miracle to end up with both Simmons and Okudah.  It's possible they are both gone top 5... almost guaranteed both gone top 10.  IMHO if we take Young, Okudah goes 3 (Detroit) and Simmons goes anywhere from 4 - 9.  

I know it is almost impossible to get Simmons and Okudah in one draft unless something rare happens but for a pick as valuable as the #2 pick has to be worth more than one player esp with the 2 real good QBs available. How about if we loose CY at 2 and get Simmons or Okudah and pos the second best RT in the draft with our #2 pick that we trade down with. I still have nightmares about our high draft choices flopping or getting hurt. I mean we need a safety and a shut down corner and we just drafted a pass rusher last year and we still have Karragan. Do you guys think it is foolish to draft a pass rusher when we have 2 of them and with the hardest player to get in the draft besides QB is a corner and the best one is available ? We have needed a safety since Ken Houston and the best one is available. Look at the Cowboy O line. Do you think CY is going to maul them? How about the RT the Giants are projected to draft. He is what 75lbs and 3" bigger than Chase. Will he give Chase all he can handle? Is the Eagle O line a pushover? There is another pass rusher, can't think of his name, pos from Kentucky? What about him later on?

[Going Commando]

10 hours ago, volsmet said:

The most overlooked end/edge, Curtis Weaver, will be a dominant player in the league, imo.

 

I've only watched his bowl game against Washington, and I came away from that with a negative impression of him.  That game ranged from bad to invisible for me.  He didn't even make UW's tackles and tight ends break a sweat, and on the few run plays he got push into the backfield, he couldn't get off to make a play on the ball when it came through his gap.  Trey Adams and Hunter Bryant didn't even play that game.  It was #70 and #79 who handled him, and those were back ups.  They moved him around but he wasn't effective in any role--spot dropping, blitzing inside, rushing on the edge, play-side containment.  I read that he came to college as an undersized DT and that's what he still looks like to me.  Very wide & squatty build, zero joint flexibility, zero capacity to flip his hips, zero athleticism to make tackles off his frame.  Much more comfortable squaring up with lineman and using his hands to extend like he's a DI lineman anchoring a gap.

 

I'm trying to keep an open mind with him because well-sourced draftniks like McShay swear he's a first rounder.  And TDN compared him to Derek Barnett.  But I think that Barnett comparison is very generous and I wasn't a fan of Barnett at all.  It feels a lot like Weaver racked up a bunch of sacks against trash competition using a combo of brute strength, heavy hands, and funky leverage, and then when he stepped on the field against decent players and coaching he wasn't an issue at all.  He's got the power to make it as a run defender in the NFL, but as an edge player and linebacker, he looked like a future JAG to me.  I like him much, much better 30 pounds heavier and closer to the ball with his hand in the dirt.  I think he needs to gain that weight and move back inside to become a full time interior lineman again in order to reset his ceiling for the NFL game.  That's the only way I'd be willing to use him on passing downs.

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

I know it is almost impossible to get Simmons and Okudah in one draft unless something rare happens but for a pick as valuable as the #2 pick has to be worth more than one player esp with the 2 real good QBs available. How about if we loose CY at 2 and get Simmons or Okudah and pos the second best RT in the draft with our #2 pick that we trade down with. I still have nightmares about our high draft choices flopping or getting hurt. I mean we need a safety and a shut down corner and we just drafted a pass rusher last year and we still have Karragan. Do you guys think it is foolish to draft a pass rusher when we have 2 of them and with the hardest player to get in the draft besides QB is a corner and the best one is available ? We have needed a safety since Ken Houston and the best one is available. Look at the Cowboy O line. Do you think CY is going to maul them? How about the RT the Giants are projected to draft. He is what 75lbs and 3" bigger than Chase. Will he give Chase all he can handle? Is the Eagle O line a pushover? There is another pass rusher, can't think of his name, pos from Kentucky? What about him later on?

 

 

Chase Young's ability is as good as we've seen come out of college.  A lot of people, who know a heck of a lot more about this type of thing than I do, say he's arguably the best EDGE prospect that has come along since LT.  He appears to have the good, and if that guy is available, and that much talent is available, regardless of the position, it's very VERY hard to pass it up.  I am GENERALLY of the camp, that a pick in the top 5 needs to be a gamechanger, and position does not matter.  I don't care who you took last year, if the guy on the board has the ability to change the dynamic of your team, you take him and figure it out.  

 

That all said, I find myself curious about the impact if we were to make these moves and still end up with someone like Simmons, who i personally think is a game changing type of player.  He may not be a dominant pass rusher or shut down corner type, but I think in the NFL where matchups are key, and being able to avoid mismatches changes the dynamic of your defense, a guy like Simmons could be a major X-factor.  It's all just speculation and fun conversation... I would still be REALLY happy with Young because he can possibly bring something to the table that NOBODY on this roster can.... 

 

I don't need Young to maul them, he has an explosive first move and can win a pass rush, size is a factor,  but not anywhere near the most important factor.  Technique and skill can beat size on a regular basis.  

[nonniey]

9 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I liked what I just saw from Harrison Bryant, we definitely need someone with reliable hands besides McLaurin. 2nd round always seems to be a hot zone for TE's, a lot of teams seem to think they always get value with them in that round. He's a guy I'm now hoping somehow makes it to our pick in the 3rd. 

Out of reach barring trades.

[skinny21]

24 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Out of reach barring trades.

I think you may be right.  When I first came across him (last week? lol), I thought he was an early middle round guy given the depth at other positions and the word on this being a weak TE class.  Seeing others start to tout his abilities, and his Senior Bowl week reports... he might have climbed into solid 2nd round status.  He and Tautman give me a Sternberger/Warring vibe (at least in how they climbed pre-draft, but a little in how they play as well).  
 

@stevemcqueen1 Weaver (thanks @volsmet) is I think better off the edge than you give him credit for.  Watch his highlights (though I hate to rely on them) and you’ll see him dip his hips and lower his shoulder on outside rushes.  He can flatten the end of his rush surprisingly well.  Looked ok knocking down hands to keep himself cleaner.  Showed a nice spin move, stacked on an outside rush, that showed an ability to change his plan midstream as well as the sense that he understands how to take advantage of a blocker’s leverage.  Most of those were against far inferior talent, but he showed the abilities.  In the Florida State game, the whole defense starts really slow - I think Weaver has a couple pressures/hits though - but then you a sea change, with Weaver benefiting/helping.  
 

Of course, I watched him without any knowledge of how he’s viewed (early in the draft/comparison to Barnett), so that may have changed my perspective a bit.  I see him as a 2nd rounder probably, but not the automatic starter type.  Here I feel like a comparison to Barnett might be apt.  IIRC, Barnett was viewed favorably, but not as a top guy (maybe a little like Ryan Anderson?), but surprised a bit once he got in the league.  I could see Weaver working out in a similar fashion.  JMO.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[OVCChairman]

Does anyone know where you can watch any live stream of the senior bowl practices... or are they even available?  

[skinny21]

^ would have liked to see Ruggs sell that post better, but dang, Jeudy is a special route runner.  
 

Jeudy, in terms of our position in the draft, doesn’t make sense for us.  However, re. the comparisons to Ridley/Cooper - I’d take that opposite McLaurin in a heartbeat (and I really like Harmon).  Just not at the expense of Young, or even Okudah/Simmons.  I’d even argue that depending on FA, I may well take one of the LTs before Jeudy - even moreso given the depth of this class.  

[Burgundy Yoda]

15 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

He reminds me of Chad Johnson

[Fresh8686]

 

Dude needs to get bigger, but he might be worth a look in the later rounds.

 

 

 

[skinny21]

https://ebonybird.com/2020/01/21/2020-senior-bowl-notes-ravens/

 

A few Senior Bowl practice tidbits.  
Among others, Pittman and Jefferson looked really good, UT receivers looked good, and Pittsburgh corner, Dane Jackson with very sticky coverage all practice.  

[skinny21]

I’m thinking Chinn and Dugger are two safeties that might go as early as late first through the second.  If either is there in the 3rd, I probably jump on them.  I don’t think either one is limited to a FS role either.

I was high on Savage and before that, Byard, early in the draft process, and I’m getting a similar feeling with these two - though these two might be getting draft love earlier than Savage/Byard.