2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[PlayAction]

5 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Now, the secondary impact of this would be if you cut Norman, Reed and trade Trent, you now have $78 million in cap space. If you have Charles and Cushenberry (or insert OT and OG) on rookie deals to pair with Wes Martin, Ross Pierschbacher, Geron Christian ... your $$ in the OL is quite low going forward outside of a hopefully re-signed Brandon Scherff. Moses is likely a 2021 cap casuality and beyond 2021 there's very little $$ in the OL, which can be a good thing. It would align your OL and investments at WR, and RB (all on rookie deals except for Richardson) to spend and invest in the Defense right now.

 

You can then take that $78 million in cap space, re-sign Scherff and spend big on TE, CB, FS and LB and still have quite a bit if dough left over.

 

Now even if you extend Trent and bring back Scherff, you still have a lot of offensive weapons and players on rookie deals. And if you are going to invest heavy in any group it is the OL, so I have no issue with that. But it's just something to consider.

 

The good thing is that the Skins have a new head office and coach so no one is going to look at any of the existing players and say we need to keep so-and-so because he's been here for awhile.  If the player productivity is average then there is no sense in paying them top tier wages.  I would not be surprised if a few Panther free agents arrive - if they are productive and at a reasonable price.  The price for a top TE is going to be high simply because there aren't many free agents and the ones in the draft are going to benefit.  IMO the action for the Skins is going to be hunting for WR talent likely in rounds 3-4.  

 

[Skinsinparadise]

That's about Shea Patterson below.  I made a similar comment watching him at the Senior Bowl, the dude can move around in the pocket but his accuracy is atrocious.  

 

 

 

[PlayAction]

2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

The draft industry is just starting to crank it up.  A month ago we had maybe 3 top tier OT then a huge drop off to OTs that could become starters in a year or so.  The TE class was supposed to be weak compared to last year.  No top tier talent at all.  How things change and will change again as the draft gets closer.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Haskins speaks.  He wanted McLaurin last time and got him.  So Hill in the 4th?  😀  Presenior bowl he looked like slam dunk would be there in the 4th, now who knows?  I haven't really studied Hill, I liked what I saw the previous off season when I was watching other Ohio State players.  He played slot.  Wonder if he could play Z? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Going Commando]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

That's about Shea Patterson below.  I made a similar comment watching him at the Senior Bowl, the dude can move around in the pocket but his accuracy is atrocious.   

 

Every time I watched Michigan the dude was trash.  Every single time.  Terrible thrower.  Horrific decision maker.  Hopeless inside and outside of the pocket.  This guy was like the fourth overall recruit in his class.  I don't know who he bought off to get that kind of ranking, but I am sure that it's the only reason the college football world has gone through the charade of pretending like he's a relevant quarterback the past two years.  He is garbage.  Not even remotely an NFL caliber prospect.

[Est.1974]

On 1/4/2020 at 7:49 PM, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Well, spent a few uneducated hours today looking through prospects.

 

Assuming we take Young at #2, damn we have a lot of talent passing by until the top of the 3rd. Working on the basis we are getting a 4th comp pick for Crowder, I really like the look of the following players as our picks in rounds 3-5 :

Jordan Brooks LB Texas Tech

Brycen Hopkins TE Purdue

KJ Hill WR Ohio State

Kyle Dugger S/OLB hybrid Lenior-Rhyne

couple of my boys starting to look good. Would love Hopkins/Hill in those mid-rounds.

[Panninho]

As you might remember I asked you for your take on KJ Hill a couple of weeks back @stevemcqueen1. On the one hand I love that he shows out at the senior bowl because I really like him as a draft prospect. However, with the recent success of Ohio State receivers and especially Terry McLaurin I feel like he might be going higher now than I was anticipating.

I am not sure how good he is outside the slot. If he was there in the 4th I'd take him but I am not sure if we should draft "just" a slot receiver prior to that considering Sims put up some nice tape.

 

[Rex Tomb]

51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Haskins speaks.  He wanted McLaurin last time and got him.  So Hill in the 4th?  😀 

 

I hope not, otherwise SoCalSkins's head may explode.  I wouldn't wish that on anyone 

[Skinsinparadise]

Pro Football Focus recently unveiled its wins above replacement metric, and ESPN used those measurements to rank all 32 draft classes based on value. With performances throughout the class, the Redskins were rated as the most productive class in the league.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/espn-names-redskins-group-rookies-leagues-most-productive-class-2019

55 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Every time I watched Michigan the dude was trash.  Every single time.  Terrible thrower.  Horrific decision maker.  Hopeless inside and outside of the pocket.  This guy was like the fourth overall recruit in his class.  I don't know who he bought off to get that kind of ranking, but I am sure that it's the only reason the college football world has gone through the charade of pretending like he's a relevant quarterback the past two years.  He is garbage.  Not even remotely an NFL caliber prospect.

 

Yeah agree, I can see that.  I said in my post Senior Bowl but meant the Citrus bowl, the dude looked horrible.   If it weren't for their two RBs, Michigan would have really been in much deeper trouble on offense.  

[LD0506]

4 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Any draft thoughts about Raekwon Davis? He hasn't been productive, but we could grab him late as a higher upside developmental guy. I think he's going to drop big time

 

Can he catch? He'd make a helluva TE.......

[Skinsinparadise]

I want to bring attention to a player, Kyle Dugger, that I don't think @volsmet 😀 has mentioned yet...

 

 

 

[ToaCommander]

Just out of curiosity, anyone has full access to ESPN Insider article Ranking the NFL rookie classes from 1-32: Which team produced most?  

and can post it here.

Be interested to read what they say about our 2019 draft class.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Breer

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/01/23/zac-taylor-duke-tobin-bengals-senior-bowl-2020-nfl-draft?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com

 

Cincinnati still needs to learn who Burrow is as a person, and there’s plenty of time to do that. But with three months left until draft day, the staff has a pretty good picture of who he is as a player.

“He’s a winner,” Taylor said, during a break in a hectic Senior Bowl schedule for his staff. “You can tell that he leads the guys around him, you can tell the effect he’s had on the whole state—the team, the state, even the state of Ohio to some extent. Those are intangibles that you can’t coach. He set all the accuracy records, all the great things he did in the SEC this year. This didn’t happen by accident.

“He’s always in great body position to throw the ball, and he can extend plays when necessary. There are certainly a lot of traits that translate well to the NFL.”

This illustrates why the Bengals—and so many others—like Burrow, and why he’s been installed as the early favorite to be the first player off the board in April. But nothing is 100% yet. Through the team’s own process, Cincinnati is going to make Burrow compete for being drafted first, and let a small number of (likely three) players do the same. The team hopes that through this process, there will be a moment when it actually does become 100% for them.

Part of that process, and an important part of it, isn’t far from completion. Another part of it is just revving up here in rural Alabama, even if Burrow himself didn’t make the trip.

 

Bengals director of player personnel Duke Tobin remembers when it all came together for him on TCU prospect Andy Dalton back in 2011. Cincinnati had arranged for on-campus workouts with all the top quarterback prospects and asked that the prospects take care of the logistic—everything from finding receivers eligible to run routes, booking time at a suitable facility and making sure everything could go off without a hitch. Really, the players had to do everything but bring the balls to the field—the Bengals would bring their own—which created an interesting test for each of them.

 

The initial plan. Two important things: First, I was told that at this point it’s unlikely the Bengals trade the first pick. Also, the Bengals are considering four players for that pick: Burrow, Alabama’s Tua Tagovailoa, Oregon’s Justin Herbert and Burrow’s former Ohio State teammate Chase Young. And as great a prospect as Young is, Tobin conceded this will start with the quarterbacks.

“We know what Joe is on tape, we know what Tua is on tape, we know what Justin is on tape,” Tobin said. “Our role right now is to try to find out what we don’t know —how his leadership works, how his football mind works, how quickly he adapts to different situations, what his overall personality is, what it’s like being around him on a regular Tuesday. How much passion do they have for the game? … We’re trying to get at those types of things, with every player we do, but particularly the quarterbacks.”

As such, to say all four will compete on a level playing field to go first overall isn’t quite right. Rather, the Bengals will look at the three quarterbacks—and, again, it’s fair to say Burrow’s the leader now—and if one’s deemed to be as easy a pick as Palmer was, then the Bengals will take him and not look back. If doubt creeps in, Young becomes a viable option.

“We have to come to a conclusion on our team what we want to do,” Tobin said. “When you draft a quarterback that high, you have to believe that is the direction of your team. And over the next couple months, we’ll have to determine that. We’ll look at the quarterbacks and say ‘yes’ or ‘no,’ that’s the direction of our team. And if it’s ‘no’, then all of the sudden we go to something different. Then all of the sudden we transition to something different.”

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Lewis has injury concerns but is a good player IMO.  If I recall for a dude his size, he's not bad in coverage.  Wonder if he fits the profile of being able to play as an OLB in a 4-3.   I doubt we have a shot at him though, probably gone worse case early 2nd. 

 

 

 

[VaK9Trainer]

17 hours ago, mistertim said:

Wait, so now we're talking about Miami trying to trade up to #1 for Burrow? 

 

Cincy is taking Burrow. No way they're going to trade that pick. They need a QB and they're right at the prime spot to get the best QB possible which won't happen again unless they somehow managed to get the #1 overall pick again next year and can get Lawrence. That happening two years in a row is incredibly unlikely and the team that ends up #1 overall next year will take Lawrence almost no questions asked.

 

And why would Miami need to trade any higher than 3 to get Tua? The only way I could see them trying to get to #2 is if they hear the Lions are trying to trade up to 2 for Tua. Even then, I think it's insanely unlikely that the Skins would do it because that means we'd basically lose our shot at the best player in the draft by moving down to 5. We might still be able to get Simmons at 5 but there's still no guarantee.

 

I think this will play out like most drafts. The usual suspects will do the usual things, and most predictions will be relatively close. Cincy will take Burrow at 1, we'll take Chase at 2. There will be one or two trades but probably nothing earth shattering. There may be a couple surprise picks but again probably nothing earth shattering. Probably a couple guys will fall who people thought would go much higher. Basically just another draft. 

 

The key is making Miami believe that we have offers for the 2nd spot ( and we very well might) and make them believe that we are okay with trading down for more picks so that they panic and move up to guarantee that they get Tua.  I think that this is a lot more likely scenario than many on here think. Miami was in tank mode all year for Tua. They aren't going to lose the chance to get him!  

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Lewis has injury concerns but is a good player IMO.  If I recall for a dude his size, he's not bad in coverage.  Wonder if he fits the profile of being able to play as an OLB in a 4-3.   I doubt we have a shot at him though, probably gone worse case early 2nd. 

 

I can't say from film, but just on size...I seriously doubt it.  Unless it's a 4-3 Under Front, but then at that case, Chase Young would play that anyways.  He measured in at the Senior Bowl at 6'5 and 3/8ths, and 258 lbs.

 

He's not a Tremaine Edmunds or Brian Urlacher level of mover in space at those sizes.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I can't say from film, but just on size...I seriously doubt it.  Unless it's a 4-3 Under Front, but then at that case, Chase Young would play that anyways.  He measured in at the Senior Bowl at 6'5 and 3/8ths, and 258 lbs.

 

He's not a Tremaine Edmunds or Brian Urlacher level of mover in space at those sizes.

 

I agree but i also don't think he needs move like a MLB like Edmonds or Urlacher at strong side OLB.  But yeah he definitely needs to be able to cover some and stop the run in the mix of his duties.  So it's whether the dude is another Marcus Washington type.  He's about 10 pounds bigger and a couple of inches taller than Marcus.    I've watched Lewis in real time a bunch of times but haven't really studied him.   

 

As for 4-3 under front, it could be Chase at OLB but it doesn't have to be.  I'd presume Del Rio will mix it up.    Defenses being in coverage these days so much, I'd presume the OLB will be taken out of the game here and there so wonder how much coverage duties they end up getting, I'd guess not massively different for a 3-4 OLB. 

[volsmet]

10 hours ago, LD0506 said:

At this point it's all speculation, but in a fun way, so no one ought to get bent outta shape over outside the box suggestions or opinions.

 

So, just like buying a lottery ticket, play the "What if?" game

 

Would you make a deal that cost you Young but say, netted you Wirfs and Epenesa, some small change later picks? Mix n match names there, was schmeckt gut?

 

What would it take to deal out of the #2? Realistically, there won't be a "Three first rounders and our firstborn!" offers from Miami, but things that make you go "hmmmm?", yanno?

Simmons, Thomas, #1 in 2021 & compromising photos of each ES moderator.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I've been reading that the Senior Bowl corner group is disappointing.  So much so that they've got safety Terrell Burgess as only a boundary corner?

 

Anyone got other info about Burgess, maybe that was a 1 time thing?  Cause he's a early Day 3 prospect in the Nickel/FS mold.

[bowhunter]

29 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Simmons, Thomas, #1 in 2021 & compromising photos of each ES moderator.

Have you actually SEEN our Mods? I think just about any pic would be considered compromising

(edit before the "Hey There" I mean " compromising" in a attractive and virile way)

[volsmet]

9 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

As we work through the draft process, and unless Tua has a disastrous setback in his rehab, I think it'll become clear that #2 is the only safe spot to land Tua, and that it's going to take a fortune to move up that high for anyone except Detroit.  #3 is going to be Tua's floor.

If Detroit wants Tua, offering their second rounder to us probably gets it done.  Miami is going to have to pay through the nose to beat out that offer because of Chase Young.  An RGIII type haul--which they can pay this year--but they might not be willing to do so.

 

We are incredibly well positioned.  This was a really good year to get #2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

If you have Charles and Cushenberry (or insert OT and OG) on rookie deals to pair with Wes Martin, Ross Pierschbacher, Geron Christian ... your $$ in the OL is quite low

 

I doubt DH could keep his health insurance policy though. 

[volsmet]

6 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I'm not sure why Jeudy gets all of the mediocre comps, Calvin Ridley etc. I see him more as a Marvin Harrison, instant separation type prospect. Or a longer/taller Antonio Brown. He just separates so well that I can't imagine his talent not translating. And he has deep speed. They only thing he really lacks is size/bulk. I'd kill to have him across from McLaurin, but don't want him enough to pass on Chase Young. Jeudy can be a perennial all pro in the right system. 

Creates cushion like Rice, moves like Barry Sanders, Swag like Deion. I haven’t seen much of Lamb, but it’s hard to believe there is a better prospect at any position than Jeudy is at his. 

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah agree that the Senior Bowl isn't the be all and end all. I didn't make it that way when I pushed McLaurin.  But it was gravy.  Not to relive my take on McLaurin but I liked watching him.  His separation skills, blocking skills among other things.  And I thought he stats were sneaky good.  I can still recall them without even having to look them up.  11 TDs.  If I recall 20 YPA.  700 yds.   I recall arguing with a couple of people here about it because of how it didn't register on the dominator scale but I didn't care.  As i said then context matters.

 

Like you said recently, you got to watch these players for yourself versus take other draft geek opinions and just ride with them.  I try to do that with as many players as I can.  I don't fall in love with any prospect based on their stats or buzz -- I have to watch them first.  And not that i get my takes right every time.  I don't.   

 

I don't think you can judge a prospect purely on analytics for example like a quantitive stock picker.    I know you watch the prospects you hype so I like reading those takes and I take them seriously for that reason.

 

For me it helps to watch a lot of players in one position because its easier for me to compare that way.  Last year I probably watched 20 receivers give or take fairly closely.  I am trying to do it now at TE.  For me as for the receiver position, my favorite attribute is separation skills.   I used to play a lot of soccer and my favorite move is when I'd lean my body one way and get the defender to assume that's where I was headed but then quickly adjust to the opposite direction.  That's the skill that grabs me with some receivers especially if they can do it in a close space like the corner of the end zone, etc.    So I am into WRs who are good at selling their routes and have quick change of direction skills/speed/shiftiness.  McLaurin looked that way to me.  

 

 

I watched 2 of Jefferson's games.  His QB was erratic in those games IMO for the most part.  You line him up with Tua or Burrow and his stats would have been better.   His stats also weren't terrible, close to 700 yards is not too bad. You can see his separation skills first and foremost in a way that I describe which I like.  He plays fast for his size.  He is a willing blocker.  

 

I have to watch more though.  Last year I tried to watch 4-5 games per player.  This year I've mostly just watched 2 to help me go through more players. 

 

 

The Sr bowl makes scouts go back & watch tape. Plenty of guys at the Sr bowl have performed on high quality h20/substances that they couldn’t perform on in college or in the nfl. Testing is probably more thorough now, but maybe not... the Sr bowl used to be a roid rage convention.