2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

And it would all be worth it, at least for the current regime. 

 

 

Agreed. But one thing not many people are talking about when it comes to the Dolphins is that they could use all that draft currency they currently have and build on it even more by trading down from #5 and getting a haul to add to their 2021 war chest. If I’m that FO I would rather gamble on having enough ammo to get Trevor Lawrence or Fields in 2021 (if they don’t finish with a bottom two record themselves, which is definitely a strong possibility) rather than gambling on Tua’s health or on fixing Herbert’s inconsistency. Maybe that’s just me though. 

 

I don't know about people not talking about it.  I mentioned it among others here before.    I've said before that's what I would do if I were them.   But, teams tend to chase the bird in hand scenarios at QB typically versus punt the idea over to the next season.  So if the Dolphins owner loves Tua and sees an opportunity to pounce he just might do it. 

 

If Trevor is as good as he looks, then I doubt whomever lands the pick would be willing to make a trade with the Dolphins assuming the Dolphins don't land the first pick themselves.  I don't know if Fields is that good where you putting all your eggs in that basket like you might for Lawrence.  But who knows?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Agreed. But one thing not many people are talking about when it comes to the Dolphins is that they could use all that draft currency they currently have and build on it even more by trading down from #5 and getting a haul to add to their 2021 war chest. If I’m that FO I would rather gamble on having enough ammo to get Trevor Lawrence or Fields in 2021 (if they don’t finish with a bottom two record themselves, which is definitely a strong possibility) rather than gambling on Tua’s health or on fixing Herbert’s inconsistency. Maybe that’s just me though. 

This is interesting. But if you're Brian Flores and going into Year 2 of a tank-fest ... I guess if you were sold that this was a 5 year rebuild to be timed with Brady leaving the Pats then I guess ... but just seems odd that they'd tank again for Lawrence or Fields after seeing what happeend this year tanking for Tua.

[skinzplay]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

If I'm the Lions, I'm drafting Tua if he's there.

 

The problem, though, is that if I were them I'd try to move Stafford. Tampa Bay is the perfect spot for him to land... but Tampa will need to make a decision at QB well before the draft. There's the rub. 

 

There are a few others teams they could look towards for a deal as well, but Tampa seems like a perfect landing spot. 

 

So Detroit would need to move to #2 to guarantee Burrow or Tua before free agency unless their plan is to roll with both for a season. But I'm not sure that's the best value to them. I think moving Stafford, even if Tua's health is in question, gives them resources to improve their team that they hadn't had previously. I'd have to look up the cap stuff for it, though, to be sure on the resources. 

 

Use Blough as a stop gap guy if Tua can't play and surround him with weapons. 

 

Sounds like a winner to me. Hard to believe Stafford's been in the league that long. If the cap hit is manageable, I'd say it's a fine time for Detroit to shop Stafford and start thinking about the future.

[OVCChairman]

• something to think about from Vilma

[HTTRDynasty]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't know about people not talking about it.  I mentioned it among others here before.    I've said before that's what I would do if I were them.   But, teams tend to chase the bird in hand scenarios at QB typically versus punt the idea over to the next season.  So if the Dolphins owner loves Tua and sees an opportunity to pounce he just might do it. 

 

If Trevor is as good as he looks, then I doubt whomever lands the pick would be willing to make a trade with the Dolphins assuming the Dolphins don't land the first pick themselves.  I don't know if Fields is that good where you putting all your eggs in that basket like you might for Lawrence.  But who knows?

My bad, I must have missed that discussion. This seems to be the fastest moving thread of the offseason so I guess it’s not a surprise lol. But yeah, I agree that it’s unlikely. Job security is always going to be the first priority of the GM/HC, and we don’t know what the GM and Flores have been promised in terms of patience from the owner. 
 

4 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

This is interesting. But if you're Brian Flores and going into Year 2 of a tank-fest ... I guess if you were sold that this was a 5 year rebuild to be timed with Brady leaving the Pats then I guess ... but just seems odd that they'd tank again for Lawrence or Fields after seeing what happeend this year tanking for Tua.

Yep, that’s why they need to cut Ryan Fitzpatrick 😉

 

He’s the ultimate tank destroyer. Cut Fitzpatrick, let Rosen start the full season. Draft T-Law.  I know it’s a controversial move, but Lawrence will give you job security and make your franchise relevant for the next 15 years.  I wouldn’t hesitate to do it.
 

I think the Panthers are brave enough to actually do this, with all their recent talk of “short-term pain” for long-term success.  And I’ll be rooting for any team with the stones to actually pull it off. 

[Koolblue13]

So Vilma and I agree and I just brought him up. Vilma is probably the last dominant MLB who changed teams that I can remember.

[OVCChairman]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

So Vilma and I agree and I just brought him up. Vilma is probably the last dominant MLB who changed teams that I can remember.

 

 

Ive had the same notion but have just avoided throwing it out there.... thats a pretty big claim...

[crabbypatty]

5 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Ive had the same notion but have just avoided throwing it out there.... thats a pretty big claim...

 

I don't see the same killer instinct from Simmons that Taylor had.

What's funny, is that for all the hits Taylor laid on people that blew them up, they were all shoulder hits. Remarkably few incidental helmet contact hits.

 

[KDawg]

I struggle in comparing him to Sean Taylor.

 

Just as I struggle any time someone says Chase Young is Lawrence Taylor.

 

I think throwing these kinds of expectations on these guys is borderline irresponsible.

 

I get it, we're not the media. We don't set the tone for these types of conversations. But more people see ES than we think and I'd rather not even set the seed of those things for these guys.

 

Let Chase be Chase and Isaiah be Isaiah. 

 

I know. I'm fun at parties, too.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

7 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I think the Panthers are brave enough to actually do this, with all their recent talk of “short-term pain” for long-term success.  And I’ll be rooting for any team with the stones to actually pull it off. 

Honestly, the best model for "tanking" in my opinion would be this.

 

If you are the Panthers, draft another mid-round QB (4th to 6th round) and let him compete with Grier. The winner of that competition probably sucks. But if the winner actually turns out to be legit and they start winning games, then you found a diamond in the rough. Otherwise you suck and will probably be fighting for a top pick next year.

 

I would let all the major FAs go ... but there's still too much talent on that team. CMC and DJ Moore alone on offense. Idk.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I struggle in comparing him to Sean Taylor.

 

Just as I struggle any time someone says Chase Young is Lawrence Taylor.

 

I think throwing these kinds of expectations on these guys is borderline irresponsible.

 

I get it, we're not the media. We don't set the tone for these types of conversations. But more people see ES than we think and I'd rather not even set the seed of those things for these guys.

 

Let Chase be Chase and Isaiah be Isaiah. 

 

I know. I'm fun at parties, too.

Yes, it's lazy, but it's also always going to happen. 

 

I also am not saying he's the next ST. I'm saying he could have a similar impact. He may not hit as big and strike fear the same way, but it's pretty much illegal to do now anyway, so that's probably better.

[skinny21]

@JamesMadisonSkins The only problem with Detroit dropping to 5 for Tua is the Giants could trade out of 4 with the Chargers or whoever (which would be smart for them if they’re honed in on OT).  It’s possible the Lions might be fine with that though knowing Okudah, Simmons, Brown, Lamb, Jeudy etc would still be on the board.

 

@stevemcqueen1 You mentioned that pass defense Simmons had vs LSU - yeah, that reaction after cracked me up, along with the fact he looked like an adult swatting down a kid’s shot in basketball.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

10 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

@JamesMadisonSkins The only problem with Detroit dropping to 5 for Tua is the Giants could trade out of 4 with the Chargers or whoever (which would be smart for them if they’re honed in on OT).  It’s possible the Lions might be fine with that though knowing Okudah, Simmons, Brown, Lamb, Jeudy etc would still be on the board.  

Sorry, I posted a bunch of scenarios so not sure which one you're referring to, so I could be wrong.

 

I wasn't suggesting Detroit trade to #5 for Tua. I was suggesting that as part of the due dilligence of working a deal with them and having them on the phone essentially say ... we'll trade you #2 for Tua if you give us #3 and a 2nd. But if you decide you aren't willing to do that to move to #2 and don't "need" Tua, we'd love to work with you on a 3-team deal with Miami.

 

Detroit gets #5 and #18

Skins get #3 and #37

Dolphins get #2

 

But that 3-team trade needs to be spearheaded by Detroit or Miami. So in a sense we'd be saying okay, we'll give you 2 so you can take Tua if the medicals check out. But say they don't ... or there's still unease to invest in moving up for him ... we'd like to work a 3-team deal to get Miami to #2 and get us #3. Help us make it happen as a backup to you moving up.

 

It's the type of conversation that would be best served as a "so you called us to move up but oh while you're on the phone ... should this be an option we'd be interested" ... rather than picking up the phone and cold-calling Detroit and essentially saying "Hey we are definitely taking Chase Young no matter what so can you trade #3 to Miami on a slight discount so Miami can then use another pick to trade to us to move from #3 to #2 so we can still get Chase Young but also get a pick ... it's a win-win for all right?!" ...

 

Harder sell, if you know what i mean.

[ClaytoAli]

40 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

• something to think about from Vilma

sure sounds like a sell job to the Skins to take Simmons and let Chase fall to the Lions or Gnots.

 

Not buying.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Having an extra 2nd, or even a 3rd and 4th, really opens this draft up for us. Assuming we go CB, FS and TE in free agency + Re-sign Scherff and Trent ... I just did a mock using Detroit's 2nd rounder on Fanspeak and got:

1. Chase Young - duh

2. Mekhi Becton, OT Louisville (future RT to replace high-cost Moses in 2021)

3. Adam Trautman, TE Dayton

4. Stanford Samuels, CB FSU

4. K.J. Hill, WR OSU

5. Tuf Borland, LB OSU

[redskinss]

26 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Detroit gets #5 and #18

Skins get #3 and #37

Dolphins get #2

Rumors leading up to the draft are all complete bull**** and I fear what would happen if Miami took chase young in this scenario. 

We'd be giving up the consensus, most talented player in the draft for a second round pick, in essence trading chase young for montez sweat.

If nobody wanted to move up to the 3rd pick to then get tua we'd end up looking like complete assholes.

Detroit would get their man and an extra first round pick.

Miami would get a generational pass rusher for a first and second round pick and we'd be left holding the bag.

I'd need some absolute guarantees to move back for only a second round pick and I'm not sure Miami could offer any.

[Anselmheifer]

6 minutes ago, ClaytoAli said:

sure sounds like a sell job to the Skins to take Simmons and let Chase fall to the Lions or Gnots.

 

Not buying.

I wish we could add Chase Young AND Isaiah Simmons. That would be transformational. We’d be a FS and a CB away from having that classic Tampa Bay defense. Chase Young, Montez Sweat, Matt Ioannidis, Jonathan Allen and DaRon Payne should be as good as Warren Sapp and Simeon Rice and whoever. Simmons would be our Derrick Brooks. Dunbar is our Ronde Barber. Landon Collins is our John Lynch. 
 

The last mock draft posted here had Simmons dropping to 10. If he’s dropping that far, I’m making calls to see what it takes. Trent is expendable in that scenario. This is probably heresy on this forum, and is definitely not something we would do, but I would even consider making McLaurin available. There are always WR’s changing hands. Amari Cooper may be available this year. We have cap room.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

16 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Miami would get a generational pass rusher for a first and second round pick and we'd be left holding the bag.

 

So to quell this a bit. Let's not forget that the NFL owners are a tight-nit group that are always looking out for the good of the brand.

 

For Miami, Detroit, or anyone else to do this, would require them to lie to another franchise outright and impact the trajectories of both in a big way.

 

Now, I'm not sitting here saying the NFL hasn't absolutely screwed the REdskins in the past.

 

But there's about a 0% chance a team offers to swap picks without a guarantee in place that the team they're trading with is taking a certain player. And if that team lies, it wil be exposed and be a massive scandal. Nobody wants that.

13 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

he last mock draft posted here had Simmons dropping to 10. If he’s dropping that far, I’m making calls to see what it takes. Trent is expendable in that scenario. This is probably heresy on this forum, and is definitely not something we would do, but I would even consider making McLaurin available. There are always WR’s changing hands. Amari Cooper may be available this year. We have cap room.

I'm not trading Terry. But, he's probably worth a mid-1st in a trade all by himself.

 

Also, you're probably going to have to find a perfect storm to even make that happen. A team that wants a guaranteed immediate impact WR on a cheap contract in win-now mode that is picking in the mid-1st. Maybe Oakland at 12? But I don't think Simmons falls past 6 or 7 anway.

[HTTRDynasty]

What do you guys reasonably expect that we can get in a trade for Kerrigan?  If we could get a 3rd, I would love to be able to go LB/TE in that round.  The fact that Mohamed Sanu was traded for a 2nd last year gives me hope.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

What do you guys reasonably expect that we can get in a trade for Kerrigan?  If we could get a 3rd, I would love to be able to go LB/TE in that round.  The fact that Mohamed Sanu was traded for a 2nd last year gives me hope.

Hmm. Not sure. I was thinking MAYBE he's a piece in a trade with Detroit. Give us #3 and your 2nd and 3rd for Kerrigan and #2.  Fills their pass-rush need to make an immediate impact + gets the Tua.

 

Any draft gurus want to share on MIzzou TE Albert OKWUEGBUNAM however you say his name? I remember listening to Stick to Football around this time last year and they were surprised he went back because he was likely a 1st/2nd round TE last year just behind Hockenson and Fant. They were saying he was a R1 2020 guy ... But he seemed to go back to Mizzou and fall off the cliff. He's now slated as a 3rd-5th round guy. What happened?

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

PICK

2

Chase Young - Edge

 

 

School: Ohio State | Year: Junior

The Redskins already have some talented pieces on the defensive line, but Young is a once-in-a-decade talent.

 

 

 

PICK

4

Mekhi Becton - OT

 

 

School: Louisville | Year: Junior

Dave Gettleman loves big, physical football players, and they don't get any bigger than Becton (listed at 6-foot-7, 369 pounds). He is a mauler in the run game and he's shockingly nimble in pass protection.

 

Whoa!  I know the Becton hype has been building but I think DJ is the first draft analyst to be this bold.

 

Also has Queen at pick #19!

 

PICK

19

Patrick Queen - LB

 

 

School: LSU | Year: Junior

The Raiders need to get faster and more dynamic on defense. Queen plays sideline to sideline and he's outstanding in coverage.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Listening to Stick to Football post Champ. Game Mock.

 

They expect Detroit to trade back with Miami. They think Miami can get away with going from 5 to 3 by only giving up their two 2nd rounders and keeping #18 and #26. It's not a trades mock, but I am including that trade since they seem to think it's likely and the players taken at the 2 spots aren't impacted by who NYG would take at 4.

1. Cincinnati - Joe Burrow, QB LSU

2. Washington - Chase Young, DE OSU

3. Miami - Tua, QB Alabama

4. Giants - Jedrick Wills, OT Alabama

5. Detroit - Isaiah Simmons, LB Clemson

6. LA Chargers - Andrew Thomas, OT Georgia

7. Carolina - Justin Herbert, QB Oregon

8. Arizona - Jerry Jeudy, WR Alabama

9. Jacksonville - Jeff Okudah, CB OSU

10. Cleveland - Tristan Wirfs, OT Iowa

 

At this point they started talking about trades. NYJ likely trading down in this scenario at #11 with who is on the Board for them (they give them Epenesa).

 

[Koolblue13]

33 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I wish we could add Chase Young AND Isaiah Simmons. That would be transformational.

Detroit wants Herbert, so they trade from 3 to 5 with the Dolphins. Fins want Tua, so they trade up to 2. Chargers now trade up to 4rth to get Herbert ahead of Detroit. Carolina, Chargers, Lions now fighting for Herbert. We're now at 4rth and getting Young. Chargers who lost a lot trying to move up, let us use some of our monster haul for moving back twice to get back up to 5th and get Simmons. 

 

Hell I am so confused now.  Channeling my inner JMS

[Anselmheifer]

12 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Super weird draft. Patrick Queen at 19 interested me. I could see him in the late 1st. 
 

they had Jeudy dropping to 15. That’s downright crazy. If Jeudy drops to 15 and we don’t make some moves to get him, I’m drinking all the alcohol. Give up next year’s 1st round pick plus whatever. Jeudy is going to be an all pro. There is no way we are picking high enough in the first next year to get a guy like that. And Jeudy across from McLaurin would just be ridiculous. 
 

It’s a moot point however. Jeudy isn’t going to drop to 15. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Detroit wants Herbert, so they trade from 3 to 5 with the Dolphins. Fins want Tua, so they trade up to 2. Chargers now trade up to 4rth to get Herbert ahead of Detroit. Carolina, Chargers, Lions now fighting for Herbert. We're now at 4rth and getting Young. Chargers who lost a lot trying to move up, let us use some of our monster haul for moving back twice to get back up to 5th and get Simmons. 

 

Hell I am so confused now.  Channeling my inner JMS

Okay, I'll bite.

 

Miami trades #5 and #18 to Detroit for #3. Then trades #3 and #26 to us for #2 and Tua. Chargers trade up to #4 from #6 with NYG for a 3rd. Washington then trades #3 to Detroit for #5 and #35.

 

We then trade #26 and #35 and a 2021 1st to LAC for #4. Draft Chase and Simmons 4/5

 

Okay none of that happens, because in reality none of those teams would trade into those slots until the pick is on the clock lol. Chargers aren't trading to #4 until pick #4 is up, etc.