2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

I think anyone believing that Chase Young is going to be as good as Nick Bosa is setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

And that’s not meant as a slight on Young. It’s meant as a compliment to Bosa. He’s so explosive at the snap and uses his hands so well.

 

Nick Bosa is generational. We’ll see if Young is. But I really don’t want that kind of pressure on him.

[RabidFan]

How does Young compare to either Bosa?  Curious to hear by those watching him all year. 

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, RabidFan said:

How does Young compare to either Bosa?  Curious to hear by those watching him all year. 

 

More explosive off the line.  Better hip flexibility.  More athletic.  

 

Not as good with his hands (technique) or at having a pass rush plan.  Not as good keeping his pads low out of his stance.  Both of these can be coached up.

[skinny21]

@Skinsinparadise Yeah, that’s what grabbed my attention re Hopkins - he looks fluid out there.  Because of that, I thought he might be more of a big receiver size, but no - he’s got a good frame to add weight (and he’s not really light to begin with).  Good point about the versatility too.  Good hands catcher as well, IIRC.
I think there will be better prospects than him in the 3rd, and probably the 4th too, but he fits the profile of a guy that can develop into a pretty good TE, IMO.  Considering it’s a weak class for the position (I think he’s probably one of the better ones), the number of other needs we’ll likely have at deeper positions (IOL and WR, for example), and the fact Turner said we’ll address TE in the draft... I doubt we’ll go after him.  He’s a good prospect to draft and develop though, IMO.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I think anyone believing that Chase Young is going to be as good as Nick Bosa is setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

And that’s not meant as a slight on Young. It’s meant as a compliment to Bosa. He’s so explosive at the snap and uses his hands so well.

 

Nick Bosa is generational. We’ll see if Young is. But I really don’t want that kind of pressure on him.

 

I agree from the angle of putting pressure on Chase. 

 

But I think the idea is certainly in play that he's going to be as good if not better.    Bosa is a great technician with his hands and has a great motor but not a special athlete.  Young is a good technician in his own right (not as good on that front as Bosa) but also a special athlete.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JoggingGod]

Young has some of the best handwork out of any edge coming out. Not sure why that aspect is being questioned.

[KDawg]

Who questioned it?

[HoggLife]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

More explosive off the line.  Better hip flexibility.  More athletic.  

 

Not as good with his hands (technique) or at having a pass rush plan.  Not as good keeping his pads low out of his stance.  Both of these can be coached up.

Not as good with his hands? And he's GREAT at keeping his pads low. In fact he turns the corner and dips really low and its unstoppable. Come on have you watched him play? I dont watch much film but I do watch a lot of college football and Chase Young is the best DE I've seen in my lifetime. And I'm a Michigan fan. Sean Taylor is the beat player the Redskins ever has had and Chase Young will really make a run at being the best we have ever had. Mark my words. 

[HTTRDynasty]

34 minutes ago, HoggLife said:

Not as good with his hands? And he's GREAT at keeping his pads low. In fact he turns the corner and dips really low and its unstoppable. Come on have you watched him play? I dont watch much film but I do watch a lot of college football and Chase Young is the best DE I've seen in my lifetime. And I'm a Michigan fan. Sean Taylor is the beat player the Redskins ever has had and Chase Young will really make a run at being the best we have ever had. Mark my words. 

 

1.  You realize this was a comparison to Bosa, right?  Young has great technique.  Bosa's was better.

2. Inconsistent pad level is the only legitimate knock on Young.  It's pretty well-known.

3. I am obviously a huge Young fan.  Have you seen my avatar, or...?

[Going Commando]

Young is markedly better than the Bosas were at Ohio State IMO.  Nick Bosa wasn't as instinctive as him.  CY's year was significantly better than Nick Bosa's best season and he missed two games with the eligibility troubles.  CY was on pace for an Aaron Donald type season for the ages before he got suspended.

[KDawg]

I love how some of you take anything that isn't absolute praise about a prospect as a negative. I am not sure what's funny about saying that the pressure on Young to be Nick Bosa year one is enormous and I'd rather he didn't have all of that put on him.

 

Bosa had an unbelievable rookie season. You cannot, reasonably, set the bar that high for Young. No matter how good he is. And he's excellent. 

 

But this fanbase gets their hopes up and if he doesn't wind up with 15+ sacks year one people will be screaming "BUST!" from the mountain tops. And he doesn't deserve that.

 

He's capable of it. But lets temper expectations, shall we?

[killerbee99]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think anyone believing that Chase Young is going to be as good as Nick Bosa is setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

And that’s not meant as a slight on Young. It’s meant as a compliment to Bosa. He’s so explosive at the snap and uses his hands so well.

 

Nick Bosa is generational. We’ll see if Young is. But I really don’t want that kind of pressure on him.

Why not have high expectations for Young.... Right off the jump you've been down on the kid... And he ain't even drafted yet.... It is feasible Young is better than Bosa, but whatever

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, killerbee99 said:

Why not have high expectations for Young.... Right off the jump you've been down on the kid... And he ain't even drafted yet.... It is feasible Young is better than Bosa, but whatever

Ive never been down on him, actually. I’m not even sure where you’d get that from.
 

Saying he’s going to be better than him from the jump is an enormous weight to put on him. You’ve met our fan base, right? 

[Burgundy Yoda]

Patrick Queen, LB out of LSU declared. I see 3rd/4th round projection on him, not seeing much film on him though. He had a pretty good title game imo and finished the season with 85 tackles, with 12.0 TFL. Do any of you draft gurus have an opinion on him? 

 

Jordyn Brooks, LB out of Texas Tech is also interesting. 20.0 tackles for loss... that's just insane production behind the LOS. I thought it was a typo or something. 

[Anselmheifer]

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

I love how some of you take anything that isn't absolute praise about a prospect as a negative. I am not sure what's funny about saying that the pressure on Young to be Nick Bosa year one is enormous and I'd rather he didn't have all of that put on him.

 

Bosa had an unbelievable rookie season. You cannot, reasonably, set the bar that high for Young. No matter how good he is. And he's excellent. 

 

But this fanbase gets their hopes up and if he doesn't wind up with 15+ sacks year one people will be screaming "BUST!" from the mountain tops. And he doesn't deserve that.

 

He's capable of it. But lets temper expectations, shall we?

 

I'm honestly not sure how great Bosa is. I do think he's really good, but I also feel like he gets more recognition because he's on a really good team and helps anchor a really good defense. He looks like the final piece on a team that is also largely better because they got their QB back healthy. Generational? I don't think Nick Bosa is generational. This might be a crappy hot take, but I think we might look back and realize that Bosa this year looked like a maxed out power/technique player that already had  very good hands that was probably already relatively close to his ceiling. What's he suddenly going to improve to take things up a notch? I don't think he's going to add more weight/strength. His hands and rush techniques are already well developed. He looks a lot like Joey Bosa, who has posted 10.5, 12.5, 5.5, and 11.5 sacks. I don't see a bunch of 17 sack seasons in either Bosa's future. And that's fine. I'd be more than happy to have either of them. Or even to replace Sweat with Nick Bosa. But Nick Bosa is not some unattainable pie in the sky dream. I haven't watched enough to know the answer to this question, but is he really even significantly better than Josh Allen?

 

Chase Young is clearly the better prospect. Not according to me. According to EVERYBODY. His stats are better. His athletic traits are better. His film is better. He's literally the top graded pass rusher ever evaluated by PFF. If you're not sure what to think, just watch his highlights. I've never seen anything like it. He wins in every way conceivable and is constantly winning immediately off the line and generating immediate pressures. So, yes, if he doesn't post some 15 sack seasons, that will be a disappointment. 

On the other hand, I don't expect him to be defensive player of the year as a rookie. Pass rushers typically take at least a year to develop. The elite guys coming out lately have generally poster 9-11 sacks in their rookie years. If we draft Chase Young and he posts 11 sacks and doesn't transform the defense this year or look better than NIck Bosa this year, I won't be worried. He's an ultra-elite prospect with a perennial all pro/DPOY type ceiling and barring something unforeseen, like a substance abuse problem or injury, I do expect him to be better than the Bosa's, Josh Allen, etc. 

[Going Commando]

Deebo was getting after it in a multitude of ways on Sunday.  Running the ball on reverses.  Running routes through the teeth of the defense.  Making things happen after the catch.  And most of all, getting good outside blocks done and throwing downfield blocks.  I loved that guy, and this rookie WR class was awesome.  The thing that really stood out about this 49ers team to me was their frightening physicality.  They are a bunch of animals.  Throughout the entire roster.  Nothing but dogs who absolutely bully their match ups.

 

Really drove home for me that I don't want anything to do with guys like Jaelen Raegor.  Don't care if they're great playmakers with the ball in their hands, they're culture killers who don't buy in to being a part of a badass team like the 49ers were this year.

 

Excited for the opportunity to upgrade the edges of our lines in this special draft class.  And excited to find some more mid to late round gems at the WR position.  We have a chance at a quick turnaround next season.  Just need to improve the offensive line and the secondary to make a big leap.

[Going Commando]

Lynch built that team to mimic the brand of football he played.  They're bullies.  That's the kind of team I want us to become.

[cober]

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Saying he’s going to be better than him from the jump is an enormous weight to put on him. You’ve met our fan base, right? 

I doubt he give 2 hoots whats said on extreme skins to be honest and the hype will be real same as any prospect selected in the first round. Look at Sweat a lot calling him a bust after first 4 or 5 games.

 

But lets be real if your selected top 5 as a pass rushers your expected to deliver day 1 Year 1 anything less is far from ideal. 

[KDawg]

7 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

I'm honestly not sure how great Bosa is. I do think he's really good, but I also feel like he gets more recognition because he's on a really good team and helps anchor a really good defense.

 

I agree here. Bosa may have seen his top value this past season. But he may not have. And regardless, this was one of the most dominant seasons for a rookie edge player to have. He's been absolutely phenomenal. He is on a really good team, for sure, but he's a part of why.

 

Quote

Generational? I don't think Nick Bosa is generational. This might be a crappy hot take, but I think we might look back and realize that Bosa this year looked like a maxed out power/technique player that already had  very good hands that was probably already relatively close to his ceiling. What's he suddenly going to improve to take things up a notch? I don't think he's going to add more weight/strength. His hands and rush techniques are already well developed. He looks a lot like Joey Bosa, who has posted 10.5, 12.5, 5.5, and 11.5 sacks. I don't see a bunch of 17 sack seasons in either Bosa's future. And that's fine. I'd be more than happy to have either of them. Or even to replace Sweat with Nick Bosa. But Nick Bosa is not some unattainable pie in the sky dream. I haven't watched enough to know the answer to this question, but is he really even significantly better than Josh Allen?

 

It all depends on how you define "significantly better". I don't think he's the same caliber of athlete as Josh Allen. So you're not going to see him out athlete as many guys. But I think he has better hands and instincts. And I think he's more powerful. But I don't necessarily measure "generational" from a purely statistical significance point of view. If Bosa can impact an opposing team like he has this season and puts up mirror image seasons, I think he goes down as one of the all-time greats at the position.

 

Quote

Chase Young is clearly the better prospect. Not according to me. According to EVERYBODY. His stats are better. His athletic traits are better. His film is better. He's literally the top graded pass rusher ever evaluated by PFF. If you're not sure what to think, just watch his highlights. I've never seen anything like it. He wins in every way conceivable and is constantly winning immediately off the line and generating immediate pressures. So, yes, if he doesn't post some 15 sack seasons, that will be a disappointment.

 

 Yes, Chase Young is a better prospect. But being a better prospect does not make you a better NFL football player. It very well could. And Young seems to have all of the boxes ticked. But it's really difficult for me to look at a guy in the draft and think they are going to come out guns blazing and completely change a team overnight. I have watched countless "film" of Young. I am big time impressed. The guy is an absolute player. Pad level, body work, IQ, hands, feet, burst... He has all of it. But I think you're making a huge mistake in thinking he comes in and gets 15+ sacks off the bat (not you, but "you" in a general sense). Mind you, in my above posts I was referencing the short leash Skins fans are going to give him, so I think he's capable of 15 sack seasons... But I think Skins fans are going to expect it right away. And that is a mistake and setting themselves up for disappointment. He needs to be impactful. That's it. He doesn't need gaudy numbers. He doesn't need to be the next Lawrence Taylor. He needs to come in, blow some plays up and help our defensive line and linebackers get to the quarterback. 

 

I really think measuring his success in numbers is unfair to him. And hey, he has the tools to pull it off. But again, this fanbase turns on guys at the drop of a dime. I'd hate to see people coming out of the wood work if he posts a <10 sack season. And I hope i'm wrong about the fan base.

 

Quote

On the other hand, I don't expect him to be defensive player of the year as a rookie. Pass rushers typically take at least a year to develop. The elite guys coming out lately have generally poster 9-11 sacks in their rookie years. If we draft Chase Young and he posts 11 sacks and doesn't transform the defense this year or look better than NIck Young this year, I won't be worried. He's an ultra-elite prospect with a perennial all pro/DPOY type ceiling and barring something unforeseen, like a substance abuse problem or injury, I do expect him to be better than the Bosa's, Josh Allen, etc.

 

You're more level headed than many. And I hope a good portion of the fanbase looks at him this way. He is going to be special.

3 minutes ago, cober said:

I doubt he give 2 hoots whats said on extreme skins to be honest and the hype will be real same as any prospect selected in the first round. Look at Sweat a lot calling him a bust after first 4 or 5 games.

 

But lets be real if your selected top 5 as a pass rushers your expected to deliver day 1 Year 1 anything less is far from ideal. 

 

Why do you think I reference ES when I say the fan base? 

[cober]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

Why do you think I reference ES when I say the fan base? 

Your on extremeskins talking about fanbase so yea that the reason. Hype is hype posts on forums wont do anything to change that. The media will spin it how they feel and people will follow. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Patrick Queen, LB out of LSU declared. I see 3rd/4th round projection on him, not seeing much film on him though. He had a pretty good title game imo and finished the season with 85 tackles, with 12.0 TFL. Do any of you draft gurus have an opinion on him? 

 

Jordyn Brooks, LB out of Texas Tech is also interesting. 20.0 tackles for loss... that's just insane production behind the LOS. I thought it was a typo or something. 

 

I talked about Queen a couple of pages or so back.  Cliff notes:  I really like him.  I doubt he lasts to the 4th.  I think we'd be lucky to get him in the early 3rd.  Plays fasts, sideline to sideline speed. Good in coverage.  They blitz him some -- both up the middle and via the outside. He's a decent tackler albeit he's not a thumper.  He's a bit undersized so here I think he'd be a weak side OLB or nickel MLB versus base defense MLB.   I think he's going to be a good player.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, cober said:

Your on extremeskins talking about fanbase so yea that the reason. Hype is hype posts on forums wont do anything to change that. The media will spin it how they feel and people will follow. 

 

I can tell you that the media is aware of this site. But I can also tell you that I've encountered some extremely poorly informed Skins' fans in the wild. 

 

If I was referencing ES, I'd be more at ease considering that I believe that this site is much more reasonable than the version of the fanbase I meet in the real world. I don't agree with everyone's takes here, but it's clear that people here use their brains more than a lot of others who are quick to react and don't think through the whole picture.

[cober]

17 minutes ago, KDawg said:

much more reasonable than the version of the fanbase I meet in the real world. 

Well just how i feel as well. But is nothing can do to change the direction of the stampede unless you have a position in the media to change the tone of what is being said.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Thaddeus Moss is one of the most interesting names in the 2020 draft class. Just three short months ago he was splitting time with Senior Bowl bound tight end Stephen Sullivan and fullback Tory Carter. Just a year ago those 47 catches for 570 yards would have been good for 2nd on the team. His four touchdowns would have also ranked 2nd.

 

But fast-forward just a year later and the young man who attended five different high schools in four years ended up hardly being a blip on LSU’s historic offense. Even with his family name, the 6-foot-3, 249-pound athlete wasn’t even on draft radars until the postseason swing.

If you search the record books for his work in previous years, you’ll find just six career catches in five career games while at NC State, where he originally committed to as a three-star prospect. After his freshman year he transferred to LSU, where NC State Offensive Coordinator Matt Canada had skipped to.

We know, according to an ESPN article about his transfer, that he underwent an offseason shoulder surgery, but that it didn’t matter because of the NCAA transfer rules. He was sitting out his sophomore season either way. In June of 2018 Moss ran a route and felt a pop. He’d broken the fifth metatarsal in his left foot, according to The Advocate.

 

Time for the boring stuff. The fifth metatarsal is the outermost bone on the heal side at the base of that smallest toe (unless you have weird feet.) There are three common types of fractures in the fifth metatarsal, according to Verywell Health.

     

The Jones fracture – The Jones fracture is one we’ve all probably at least heard of in sports. It’s a somewhat common injury in the sport, and one that can create complications if not allowed proper healing. Most, like Moss’s, come in non-contact situations where hard planting occurs. This fracture occurs not at the base of the bone toward the heel but just beyond that, according to Foot Health Facts. There are three “zones” in which the three fractures occur. The Jones fracture occurs in zone two, and normally occurs on the top of the bone. Athletes usually opt for surgery in this injury because of the somewhat stable 12-week recovery timeframe.

     

The Avulsion Fracture – This fracture occurs in zone one closest to the heel. It’s often referred to as a “pseudo-Jones fracture.” Healing time usually occurs within six to eight weeks and requires a boot.

     

The Stress Fracture – This type of fracture occurs along the long part of the fifth metatarsal bone, and is the most difficult to heal, mostly because they often go misdiagnosed or ignored as tendonitis due to the dull pain. However, Verywell states that regardless of circumstance, this is the most difficult break for the body to heal and is the most likely to require surgery.

There isn’t any information about what type of fracture Moss had, but it is important to know that he had one, that required multiple surgeries to work through. He now has a plate in that left foot, and his foot bothers him at times on turf, according to The Advocate.

 

This is awfully important to note for a few reasons when looking at Moss as a prospect. The first, and most important note is that this was all very new to him in the beginning of the season. He already hadn’t played football in almost three years, and he’d be playing with a new piece of steel (or titanium) in his foot. It’d be prudent of us to give a bit of leeway on his tape from early in the season as he indubitably got used to both his new body and playing the game he hadn’t in competition since November 11, 2016, according to Sports Reference.

 

The second note to make is that there are still some comfort issues with the foot from time to time. And in a sport, and more particularly a position, that requires hard horizontal plants, that discomfort could cause problems. Or with time the discomfort subsides and he really comes into his own athletically and feels safe really sinking and driving off the foot.

 

https://www.bluechipscouting.com/articles/2020/1/20/tight-end-class-mossed-with-late-thaddeus-declaration

[Anselmheifer]

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I talked about Queen a couple of pages or so back.  Cliff notes:  I really like him.  I doubt he lasts to the 4th.  I think we'd be lucky to get him in the early 3rd.  Plays fasts, sideline to sideline speed. Good in coverage.  They blitz him some -- both up the middle and via the outside. He's a decent tackler albeit he's not a thumper.  He's a bit undersized so here I think he'd be a weak side OLB or nickel MLB versus base defense MLB.   I think he's going to be a good player.

 

He's pretty undersized. Definitely would have to be a WILL. I don't have well formed opinions about him yet. Tried watching him live a little against Clemson, and he didn't stand out, but that's fine. I think he probably winds up needing some time to develop. I need to make time to watch more of his full game cut ups. And I want to see how he measures in terms of arm length. He looks like length could be a bit of an issue.