2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[FrFan]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I keep hearing this is the deepest WB draft in millennia, so if there was a blockbuster trade offer, I’d do it IF there was a QB you thought could be a franchise guy behind Burrow and Tua.   
 

Im assuming Tua goes off the board at 5 to the Dolphins of there isn’t a trade up to get him, assuming health.  
 

It would be very interesting because then Cam becomes a FA, and Carolina has a lot more cap room. 
 

But to move up from 7 to 1 would take just an enormous amount of appo.  And I’m not sure if the Panthers have it.

I tend to agree, I believe we will have to wait for the combine, anything could happen, players rising, falling, possible injuries (God forbid).

Young and Sweat on a 4-3 would be like having Mann & Manley 2.0+.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[KDawg]

As prospects, Tua is a better prospect than Burrow.

 

As injury concern, Burrow is better than Tua.

 

As leaders of men, I have absolutely no idea. Though I do think Burrow is kind of corny. But some people respond to that.

 

Cigars, "Big Dick Joe" hat, Burreaux on the back of his jersey. Doesn't move the needle much for me... Maybe some of the guys like it? A college locker room would eat it up. Pros? Not so much. At least I don't think so...

 

And I'm not sure of Tua's personality or if he has much of one. Haven't seen much from him other than watching him play.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

As prospects, Tua is a better prospect than Burrow.

 

As injury concern, Burrow is better than Tua.

 

As leaders of men, I have absolutely no idea. Though I do think Burrow is kind of corny. But some people respond to that.

 

Cigars, "Big Dick Joe" hat, Burreaux on the back of his jersey. Doesn't move the needle much for me... Maybe some of the guys like it? A college locker room would eat it up. Pros? Not so much. At least I don't think so...

 

And I'm not sure of Tua's personality or if he has much of one. Haven't seen much from him other than watching him play.

 

Burrow according to Urban Meyer, ex-teammates, etc is a big time locker room leader with leadership skills through the roof, workaholic -- his coaches called him a football junkie.

 

Tua is a different personality.  To me he comes off more laidback than Burrow.  Super nice guy. Religious.  Big family from Hawaii. Leader but in a different way from Burrow.

 

I've been on the Tua train for awhile.  But I think Burrow is likely going to be a good one, too.   I'd pick Tua if they were both healthy.   If there is one angle some can use for Burrow over Tua is performance in big games.   But Tua's skills especially his accuracy on deep throws is sick. 

 

https://247sports.com/Article/Joe-Burrow-College-Football-Playoff-Urban-Meyer-LSU-Tigers-Ohio-State-Buckeyes-140935227/

While the FOX College Football crew was breaking down the game and what the Sooners need to do to halt Burrow and the LSU offense, the man who coached Burrow at Ohio State -- Urban Meyer -- weighed in on just how big Burrow’s football mind is.

“Joe Burrow -- I just talked to him the other day -- his football IQ on a 1-10 [scale] - it’s a 12,” Meyer said. “That’s how smart he is. So when you see the pressures -- they’re not being pressured. You can say it’s the offensive line, which they are the best offensive line in America -- they just won the award, but it’s also Joe Burrow getting in the right protection.

[Anselmheifer]

SIP, I’m with you on Tua. The other thing about Tua is that he’s been a special WB from the moment he stepped on the field and has been consistently great over time. His skills are going to translate. If he can stay healthy. 
 

Spent my free work moments this morning watching Chase Young porn. There are so many sacks and pressures you can’t squeeze them in at work. Also wanted to take the time to agree with your posts from the, ‘Welcome Chase Young’ board. Our DL had about the same number of sacks as that of the miners last year. The problem is, there was no consistent pressure. It was like we would be stonewalled, stonewalled, stonewalled, finally a guy would win a matchup and we would have a sack. In between those sacks, guys had 4 or 5 seconds to pat the ball, get to their 4th target, pump, wait for a receiver to break. It’s why we were so bad on 3rd down. I’d expect that 3rd down efficiency to change with Chase You g and Jack Del Rio. Big time. 
 

 

Our SAM of the future?

[Going Commando]

I love Tua, but I would struggle to choose between him and Burrow.  Burrow looked like Drew Brees this season.  The tall version, so I think his skill set translates to the NFL too.  His accuracy, touch, playmaking instincts, toughness, and ability to dial in and make good pre-snap recognitions and post-snap reads were just off the charts good this year.  Plus he's just as good an athlete as Tua.  Tua has more of a track record than Burrow, and he's younger.  But Burrow is healthy.  I think I would lean towards Burrow if I were Cincy.  These young guys are awesome.  It's been a really fruitful quarterback period for the NFL draft since 2016.  Wentz, Watson, Mahomes, and Jackson already MVP level QBs.  Mayfield, Murray, Haskins, Burrow, and Tua with the talent to get to that level.  I know the majority of the board are Haskins skeptics and haven't believed me when I've said Haskins is in that class as a prospect, but he is.  If we don't screw it up with him, he has the potential to be as good as any of them.  A true workhorse pro-style passing QB for a high end passing game.

 

This feels an awful lot like the Luck vs RGIII year.  We and the Colts really ****ed that up.  Hopefully the same thing doesn't happen to Burrow and Tua.

[KDawg]

30 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

  I know the majority of the board are Haskins skeptics and haven't believed me when I've said Haskins is in that class as a prospect, but he is.  If we don't screw it up with him, he has the potential to be as good as any of them.  A true workhorse pro-style passing QB for a high end passing game.

 

 

This is where we diverge RE: Haskins.

 

I don't think it's just on the Redskins shoulders if he doesn't pan out. His maturity is a significant concern. We can write it off as being a kid, etc, but how many franchise level QBs, who were kids, did/have done the same things he did? Some of that is the social media presence today, but just his body language was lacking... I could buy that it was growing pains and he's going to make some significant leaps this year, but if he doesn't, let's not pretend like this is entirely on this teams' lap. 

 

As a prospect, though, I agree. He has the physical traits. It's the non-physical I worry about with him. 

 

Similarly, if he pulls it out and develops, I don't think the team deserves as much of the credit as he does. He has to want this. 

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I love Tua, but I would struggle to choose between him and Burrow.  Burrow looked like Drew Brees this season.  The tall version, so I think his skill set translates to the NFL too.  His accuracy, touch, playmaking instincts, toughness, and ability to dial in and make good pre-snap recognitions and post-snap reads were just off the charts good this year.  Plus he's just as good an athlete as Tua.  Tua has more of a track record than Burrow, and he's younger.  But Burrow is healthy.  I think I would lean towards Burrow if I were Cincy.  These young guys are awesome.  It's been a really fruitful quarterback period for the NFL draft since 2016.  Wentz, Watson, Mahomes, and Jackson already MVP level QBs.  Mayfield, Murray, Haskins, Burrow, and Tua with the talent to get to that level.  I know the majority of the board are Haskins skeptics and haven't believed me when I've said Haskins is in that class as a prospect, but he is.  If we don't screw it up with him, he has the potential to be as good as any of them.  A true workhorse pro-style passing QB for a high end passing game.

 

This feels an awful lot like the Luck vs RGIII year.  We and the Colts really ****ed that up.  Hopefully the same thing doesn't happen to Burrow and Tua.

 

My main hesitation left about Haskins is the work ethic being questioned from pretty much everywhere including Keim who loved him and is an Ohio State guy.  And it's been expressed by some in a less polite way than i am doing here.  So I am hoping the dude has the fire-motivation to prepare week in and week out and I don't think its an accident that Rivera and Turner in an oblique way seem to push him on that front in their press conferences.   But otherwise, he's clearly super talented. 

 

His mobility was impressive and i didn't feel that way watching his Ohio State games -- I talked about that as far back as training camp when I watched his practices.   I was impressed with Haskins' performance in the last two games.  If he can play like that we got something.  And as I've mentioned multiple times on the Haskins thread, I've seen Haskins up close a bunch of times, in training camp and ran into him at the team hotel before a game, and I thought the dude was a super nice guy so i am rooting for him hard.  He and Guice might be the nicest players I've ever seen up close as for dealing with fans-kids.  Both super good dudes IMO. 

 

Like you, I do think Burrow is going to be good.  Tua, too.  I'd take Burrow over Tua purely because of durability concerns.   As we know, Tua would get banged up even before the latest injury.   I liked Lock as my 2nd favorite QB in the last draft (volsmet liked him even more) and he showed some nice flashes in a short sample.  And I admit Daniel Jones looked better than I expected.  Reporters who cover Jones say he's a Peyton workaholic type, up at 4:30am, always preparing, always working.   He had his moments.   I didn't think he was going to be a bust but I compared him to Keenum, average type player at best.  I don't per se believe Jones is on the verge of greatness.  But he looks to me like a slam dunk, good QB.  

[Going Commando]

@Skinsinparadise Damien Lewis is low-key one of my favorite interior OL prospects in the class.  Not to be confused with Colonel Dick Winters, but almost as cool.  He was excellent down the stretch and he plays true violent football.  His game against Ole Miss was an eye-opener.  It was like every single time they ran behind him ended up being a huge play.

 

Looks squatty and maybe a bit undersized for the next level.  He's not king-sized like the Georgia guys.  But I wouldn't say he's small, like Nick Harris.    Probably in that 6'2 range and he does seem to carry pretty good bulk.  Arms look short though.  He's got good quickness off the snap and he's got naturally low leverage once he gets into your numbers.  He's so tenacious that it is really hard to peel off the block.  Maximal effort kind of player.

 

Pass pro looks at least solid.  He's got pretty good functional strength to absorb the initial blow and anchor, even against a really hot blitz.  Balance isn't always great, but it's not a weakness.  I think he gets overextended trying to cope with length and that's when he tends to end up on the ground.

 

The upside with him clearly isn't as high as it is with the larger guards of the class, but he's a good player today.  I like him as like a 6th or 7th round candidate who could significantly outplay his draft range.  He's a true overachiever.

[Anselmheifer]

Who do we really want the Giants not to take? I honestly don’t want them to get Simmons, Jeudy or Andrew Thomas. I’d love it if they moved back or grabbed another OL or Lamb. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Who do we really want the Giants not to take? I honestly don’t want them to get Simmons, Jeudy or Andrew Thomas. I’d love it if they moved back or grabbed another OL or Lamb. 

 

I want them to forget to turn in their card, and then when they get their stuff together, the guy with the card trips, falls over a cord (he's okay, don't want him hurt!) and the card flies into the air, is lifted by a fan and somehow manages to wind up in an incinerator and they want up making their first selection at pick 35.

[Koolblue13]

Miami looking to move up is interesting. I wouldn't really want to drop back to 5, but at 5 and 18 we could probably grab Simmons or Okudah and one of the better Tackles. Lions would grab Young at 3 which gets him out of the East. Giants, who knows, but I'm thinking tackle or WR. Something to help Jones.

[mhd24]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I want them to forget to turn in their card, and then when they get their stuff together, the guy with the card trips, falls over a cord (he's okay, don't want him hurt!) and the card flies into the air, is lifted by a fan and somehow manages to wind up in an incinerator and they want up making their first selection at pick 35.

 

I think Gettleman takes the player who he feels helps Jones the best.  Its either WR or OL.  Simmons would scare me and I hope he doesn't go there.  Honestly, I could see Detroit taking Simmons assuming they don't swap with Miami.  

[Going Commando]

17 minutes ago, KDawg said:

His maturity is a significant concern.

 

I don't really have concerns about his maturity or intangible make up.  He's a really nice kid and he's super smart and hungry.  I think it's pretty clear he wants to be a great player.  And I do think that it's up to the organization to properly develop and support him.  His personality and background aren't meaningfully different from any of the other top prospects who've been coming out of the college game lately, and whether or not they've made a successful transition to the NFL has largely come down to health and the quality of their organization.  Some teams are just way better at handling young QBs, understand better the commitment and process that it takes to develop them, and better at drafting/coaching support for them so they can have some early success.  I can't remember the last time this team was good with quarterbacks.  The way we handle Haskins is a test of whether or not we've grown as an organization.  I suspect we haven't, but I'm hopeful that we have.  I'm hoping that Rivera is a calming influence on the franchise.

[Going Commando]

16 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Who do we really want the Giants not to take? I honestly don’t want them to get Simmons, Jeudy or Andrew Thomas. I’d love it if they moved back or grabbed another OL or Lamb.  

 

I don't want them to get Okudah or Young mainly.  I wouldn't love having to face Simmons, but better him than Okudah or Young IMO.  I can live with it being a WR or Thomas.

 

If they get Okudah, that secondary is going to be awful to have to go up against in like two years.  If they get Young, that DL will be awful to face too.  It looks like Young's floor is #3 though, so I'm less worried about that than I am Okudah.

 

Thomas at 4 is a reach IMO.  He's a good player and he would definitely help them, but he wouldn't strike fear in me as a future match up like other players in the class.

[skinny21]

4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I don't want them to get Okudah or Young mainly.  I wouldn't love having to face Simmons, but better him than Okudah or Young IMO.  I can live with it being a WR or Thomas.

 

If they get Okudah, that secondary is going to be awful to have to go up against in like two years.  If they get Young, that DL will be awful to face too.  It looks like Young's floor is #3 though, so I'm less worried about that than I am Okudah.

 

Thomas at 4 is a reach IMO.  He's a good player and he would definitely help them, but he wouldn't strike fear in me as a future match up like other players in the class.

I could certainly see the Giants going offense, but given their corner’s  struggles and cutting their only competent corner, I could see also Okudah being the pick.  Which would likely suck.  

This part is for @KDawg as well...

 

As to Haskins development, I see it both ways.  The team needs to support Haskins - provide him the keys, motivate him as best they can, tailor the offense to him, provide him with weapons and protection, and give him a defense/run game to ease the burden.  
Haskins, on the other hand, has to own his role.  He’s got to work his butt off, communicate well, become a leader, etc.  

[Anselmheifer]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I don't want them to get Okudah or Young mainly.  I wouldn't love having to face Simmons, but better him than Okudah or Young IMO.  I can live with it being a WR or Thomas.

 

If they get Okudah, that secondary is going to be awful to have to go up against in like two years.  If they get Young, that DL will be awful to face too.  It looks like Young's floor is #3 though, so I'm less worried about that than I am Okudah.

 

Thomas at 4 is a reach IMO.  He's a good player and he would definitely help them, but he wouldn't strike fear in me as a future match up like other players in the class.

I was watching Young this morning and imagining him going up against Morgan Moses. Not a pretty thought. The number of false starts that would induce, added to the number of sacks, would be depressing. 
 

Has Simmons even officially declared yet?

 

Also, I can’t wait until we have combine numbers and a little better idea of where people are projected. The combine will be here in no time! February 23 through March 2. Honestly, if I were Chase Young, I would weigh in and measure, do the medical part and take part in no drills. Nothing to gain. 
 

Know you’re in favor of trading down for a huge haul. I want to stay at 2 and grab Chase. Beyond that though, I’d be in favor of creating as many picks as possible. It could really swing things for us to hit on a couple more Terry McLaurin’s 

[ThePackisback]

4 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I could certainly see the Giants going offense, but given their corner’s  struggles and cutting their only competent corner, I could see also Okudah being the pick.  Which would likely suck.  

This part is for @KDawg as well...

 

As to Haskins development, I see it both ways.  The team needs to support Haskins - provide him the keys, motivate him as best they can, tailor the offense to him, provide him with weapons and protection, and give him a defense/run game to ease the burden.  
Haskins, on the other hand, has to own his role.  He’s got to work his butt off, communicate well, become a leader, etc.  

I hope next year the skins are back.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

Our SAM of the future?

 

This kid is a freak.  As explosive and athletic as it gets.  And he's mean too, a violent and intimidating player.  He's a down lineman though, IMO.  He's athletic enough to switch to LBer but the coaching staff that ever puts him in coverage is doing a bad job.  I don't even like him as a wide nine three point stance rusher.  I want him right on top of a tackle or guard and whipping them with his speed/power combo.

 

That Oregon defense is going to be championship caliber either next year or the year after.  Their games against USC will be fascinating.

7 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Has Simmons even officially declared yet? 

 

Today is the deadline right?  I expect him to declare because he's already graduated and won two championships.  But I could see some of these Clemson guys going back for 2020 with an unfinished business mentality.

[skinzplay]

8 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I don't really have concerns about his maturity or intangible make up.  He's a really nice kid and he's super smart and hungry.  I think it's pretty clear he wants to be a great player.  And I do think that it's up to the organization to properly develop and support him.  His personality and background aren't meaningfully different from any of the other top prospects who've been coming out of the college game lately, and whether or not they've made a successful transition to the NFL has largely come down to health and the quality of their organization.  Some teams are just way better at handling young QBs, understand better the commitment and process that it takes to develop them, and better at drafting/coaching support for them so they can have some early success.  I can't remember the last time this team was good with quarterbacks.  The way we handle Haskins is a test of whether or not we've grown as an organization.  I suspect we haven't, but I'm hopeful that we have.  I'm hoping that Rivera is a calming influence on the franchise.

 

I think the tutelage of Zampese will be an incredible resource for the young man. That, coupled, with Turner's support and tutelage should hopefully get him (and keep him) on the right track. Turner really helped to develop Bridgewater.

[Fresh8686]

Jeez, Simmons testing out with 4.31 40 time and 40 inch vertical. His combine hype is gonna build like crazy after testing if these hold up.
 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

57 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Who do we really want the Giants not to take? I honestly don’t want them to get Simmons, Jeudy or Andrew Thomas. I’d love it if they moved back or grabbed another OL or Lamb. 

 

For me its Thomas by a mile.  I think their D line is sneaky good.  they are just missing one pass rusher IMO.  Their corners were bad.  You give them a shutdown corner and it might take them a long way.  I am reading they might target pass rush in FA. 

4 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

Jeez, Simmons testing out with 4.31 40 time and 40 inch vertical. His combine hype is gonna build like crazy after testing if these hold up.

 

 

The only thing is people are expecting it out of Simmons.  But no doubt he will be the talk of the combine.

 

I am very interested in Lamb and Jeudy's performances in the combine -- you got some mystery about both of them on that front where I think the combine could help one elevate themselves over the other. 

[Going Commando]

10 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Know you’re in favor of trading down for a huge haul. I want to stay at 2 and grab Chase. Beyond that though, I’d be in favor of creating as many picks as possible. It could really swing things for us to hit on a couple more Terry McLaurin’s  

 

Trading down from 2 is probably the only way to add a significant amount of picks in the 20-60 range of the class.  it's not essential for building a winner, I won't cry about staying put and drafting Chase.  But I do think it's the best path for us.  And I suspect that it's realistic.  I think the Dolphins will work out a trade with Detroit to move up to #3 for Tua.  And I think we could leverage our pick as the way to get in front of that slot, use it to create a bidding war, and get a big time haul for a small trade down.  And if we were to get to slot #5, then I think we could use that to create a second, smaller bidding war for Justin Herbert as I think the Chargers and Panthers will be in the market for him.  It's a uniquely favorable draft order to us given the QB supply and demand this year.  We can get more than face value for our picks, whereas years with weaker or more numerous QB prospects devalue the high picks.

 

The reason I'm so focused on adding picks in that teens/20s through the end of the second round range is because I think it's the best range to find value on OL and DB prospects.  But there should be a lot of value in trading back in late day two and early day three too.  Lots of good interior OL and WR and RB prospects who should be available in that range.  I like some of the linebacker talent of the class around then too.  We need help in every position group, so it creates a lot of room to find late round contributors.

[Fresh8686]

We might be picking one of these guys in the later rounds, given past drafts. And yup Kyle Dugger is on here although as a possible safety.
 

 

[Skinsinparadise]