2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Chump Bailey]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

He is a prototypical 3-technique and completely miscast as a full-time 4-3 DE.

 

And moving him out there really negates any need to draft Chase Young and creates more of a logjam at DE should we draft him. 
 

You get your talent on the field. You don’t have them sit on the bench. 
 

Allen at 3-tech, Payne at 1-tech with Ioannidis frequently spelling either/or is a recipe for success. 
 

Move Allen outside and we just crushed our DT depth and added an abundance of depth at DE.

 

Once in awhile? Sure. Fine. But he needs to be the primary 3-technique 

 

Yeah. I'll concede here and agree with you. Makes sense. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

Yeah. I'll concede here and agree with you. Makes sense. 

I don’t think the idea of him lining up out there in certain situations is bad by any means. I fall back to the old “get your talent on the field” and there’s all sorts of scenarios that could happen... say... an odd front look with a stand up edge to one side. Or different ways to line up to TE sets. 
 

I think moving guys around and using their versatility is smart as hell. And we have guys that can do that. Ioannidis could probably do that, too. 
 

Also makes for some interesting fronts.

 

But in general, I strongly feel he should be a 3-technique.

[Chump Bailey]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I don’t think the idea of him lining up out there in certain situations is bad by any means. I fall back to the old “get your talent on the field” and there’s all sorts of scenarios that could happen... say... an odd front look with a stand up edge to one side. Or different ways to line up to TE sets. 
 

I think moving guys around and using their versatility is smart as hell. And we have guys that can do that. Ioannidis could probably do that, too. 
 

Also makes for some interesting fronts.

 

But in general, I strongly feel he should be a 3-technique.

 

I knew he had the speed but thought he lacked the size to play inside effectively for any duration. I botched it though and am wrong. Allen inside with Chase and Sweat is awesome!

 

What do you think of Brantley KDawg? I think he would do well in the 3-Tech also.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

I knew he had the speed but thought he lacked the size to play inside effectively for any duration. I botched it though and am wrong. Allen inside with Chase and Sweat is awesome!

 

What do you think of Brantley KDawg? I think he would do well in the 3-Tech also.

He’s not on the roster at the moment but I believe he’s restricted. I’m not sure I’ve seen enough of him to really judge his ability. 
 

Keep in mind a 3-tech isn’t facing a lot of doubles. He’s lined up outside the guard between the guard and tackle. He could get doubled in a power look to that side, if there is a TE present, but the 3-tech is the pass rush defensive tackle in general (as with all things, you want guys who can do multiple things in the modern game, so the typecast isn’t as set in stone as years ago).

 

The 1-tech is the guy getting abused on a play to play basis.

[skinny21]

Any thoughts on Miles Dorn?  He looks pretty versatile from what I’ve seen - has solid size/length, played single high, in the box, man up on receivers...

I see concerns about speed, but he flies up to play screens and such - speed looked good to me.  Very instinctive player.  DraftNetwork talks about how he trusts his instincts because of a lack of speed and those instincts lead to teams getting him on PA.  I have to wonder if part of that is the new defense he played his senior year and the need to help in the run game.  
Thought he looked ok in man and as I mentioned, really liked him coming up in run support.  Good hands playing deep too.  

[Koolblue13]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

He’s not on the roster at the moment but I believe he’s restricted. I’m not sure I’ve seen enough of him to really judge his ability. 
 

Keep in mind a 3-tech isn’t facing a lot of doubles. He’s lined up outside the guard between the guard and tackle. He could get doubled in a power look to that side, if there is a TE present, but the 3-tech is the pass rush defensive tackle in general (as with all things, you want guys who can do multiple things in the modern game, so the typecast isn’t as set in stone as years ago).

 

The 1-tech is the guy getting abused on a play to play basis.

Payne and Iaon should strive there. They seem like they love the dirty works. Allen will probably see a nice increase in sacks from the 3. Allen kind of gives me a Daniels feel. Leader, work horse, as great of a standout as the talent around him. In a vacuum, not the greatest, but in a talented situation, an absolute monster.

[Going Commando]

Young, Sweat, Anderson, Kerrigan

Payne, Allen, Io, Settle

 

Is as hellacious an 8 man DL rotation as any team in the league could field.  It has it all.  Depth & versatility.  It's the fruit of spending four first rounders and three second rounders on the position group since 2011.  Plus unearthing two late round gems in Io and Settle.

 

Anderson might spend more snaps at LBer though.  And Kerrigan might not be on the team for much longer.  We'd be in the market for edge depth next year, but our starters would be awesome.  Figure they could be playing 80% of our defensive snaps by that point, so you'd only be looking for a light rotation player.

[Going Commando]

7 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Payne and Iaon should strive there. They seem like they love the dirty works. Allen will probably see a nice increase in sacks from the 3. Allen kind of gives me a Daniels feel. Leader, work horse, as great of a standout as the talent around him. In a vacuum, not the greatest, but in a talented situation, an absolute monster. 

 

I agree with you.  Allen is a finisher.  That was his role for Alabama, where he starred, but he needs the table set for him.  You and KDawg are probably right that one on one with a guard is the ideal match up for him.  Can't double him because you have to double Payne or Io with the center/guard block and the tight ends and tackles and backs will be preoccupied with Chase/Sweat.  Good situation for him to get sacks.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I agree with you.  Allen is a finisher.  That was his role for Alabama, where he starred, but he needs the table set for him.  You and KDawg are probably right that one on one with a guard is the ideal match up for him.  Can't double him because you have to double Payne or Io with the center/guard block and the tight ends and tackles and backs will be preoccupied with Chase/Sweat.  Good situation for him to get sacks.

I think it was volsmet that said he could be a 10 sack guy from the DT position, which at first I thought kind of ridiculous, but now the more I think about what other teams will have to do against this front, it makes a lot more sense and plausible.

[volsmet]

37 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Any thoughts on Miles Dorn?  He looks pretty versatile from what I’ve seen - has solid size/length, played single high, in the box, man up on receivers...

I see concerns about speed, but he flies up to play screens and such - speed looked good to me.  Very instinctive player.  DraftNetwork talks about how he trusts his instincts because of a lack of speed and those instincts lead to teams getting him on PA.  I have to wonder if part of that is the new defense he played his senior year and the need to help in the run game.  
Thought he looked ok in man and as I mentioned, really liked him coming up in run support.  Good hands playing deep too.  

His pops played in the league, I always like that — but I haven’t seen much of him myself, I just remember him looking like a 12 year old when he was being recruited; the mighty Vols offered, so he’s probably a player. 🤔

7 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think it was volsmet that said he could be a 10 sack guy from the DT position, which at first I thought kind of ridiculous, but now the more I think about what other teams will have to do against this front, it makes a lot more sense and plausible.

I just didn’t mention that it would take multiple years to get to 10 🤨

[OVCChairman]

1 hour ago, crabbypatty said:

 

Why do people keep wanting to stick Allen at DE? He was miscast there as a 3-4 de, would be even worse in a 4-3.

He needs to be at the 3 over a guard where he can use his strength/short area quicks and ability to dominate. He's not beating Tackles around the corner. But he can zip right past a guard's outside shoulder.

 

 

I guess i keep thinking about his athleticism and thinking he's got more value coming from a side, while Payne / Ioannidis are wreaking havoc up the middle... and i'm constantly looking at our interior D-line with regards to passing situations.  I admittedly have not studied Allens game to act like i can argue whether he makes a better DE vs DT, so i'll defer to you all a good bit when that kind of a comparison is made.  Even if Allen is on the interior, the point remains, whether we add Simmons OR Young, it's a formidable front 7 that can be the focal point of our team.... if used correctly. 

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I guess i keep thinking about his athleticism and thinking he's got more value coming from a side, while Payne / Ioannidis are wreaking havoc up the middle... and i'm constantly looking at our interior D-line with regards to passing situations.  I admittedly have not studied Allens game to act like i can argue whether he makes a better DE vs DT, so i'll defer to you all a good bit when that kind of a comparison is made.  Even if Allen is on the interior, the point remains, whether we add Simmons OR Young, it's a formidable front 7 that can be the focal point of our team.... if used correctly. 

It's not the worst idea on occasion. When 3 people have to block 2 of Allen, Payne or Iaon, that certainly leaves the outside pretty open, so Allen moving over the tackleis enough to garner attention from a TE or Back, along with the tackle, which should open some nice run blitzing lanes.

[HTTRDynasty]

I think the only time it makes sense to play Allen at 4-3 DE is in high-leverage short yardage situations (i.e. obvious run downs). Would love to see this line-up on 3rd/4th and short:

 

Allen-Ioannidis-Payne-Young

 

with Sweat at one OLB spot and Anderson at the other. Hopefully with Foster at MLB. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Has anyone thought about how beastly our defense could be if we signed Byron Jones and Tre Boston/Jimmie Ward in Free Agency and drafted Chase Young?

 

The talent on defense if you can get a healthy Foster at MLB would be insane.

 

Jones - Boston - Collins - Dunbar

 

SDH - Foster - Holcomb

 

Sweat - Allen - Payne - Young

 

Kerrigan, Anderson, Ionidis, Settle as backups to the Front 7

 

Draft some a speed guy in the secondary and a speed guy for the LB Core to pair with those 2 FA and Young ... my god.

[757SeanTaylor21]

Payne to me actually seems like a better rusher than allen when he gets the chance. Granted I love his attitude concerning double teams and wanting to be selfless but I could see running a 43 under look and havin sweat as the outside backer at the line then allen payne io and young on the line. Really would like us to find our justin smith /aldon smith duo. Man now thinking about it that dude was legit crazy.

[Anselmheifer]

52 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Young, Sweat, Anderson, Kerrigan

Payne, Allen, Io, Settle

 

Is as hellacious an 8 man DL rotation as any team in the league could field.  It has it all.  Depth & versatility.  It's the fruit of spending four first rounders and three second rounders on the position group since 2011.  Plus unearthing two late round gems in Io and Settle.

 

Anderson might spend more snaps at LBer though.  And Kerrigan might not be on the team for much longer.  We'd be in the market for edge depth next year, but our starters would be awesome.  Figure they could be playing 80% of our defensive snaps by that point, so you'd only be looking for a light rotation player.

 

I agree with this on passing downs. Allen or Ioannidis next to Chase Young is going to be vicious. Those DT's are going to get single blocking and the QB is going to be stepping right up into them if he's not rolling out in the other direction. 

I'm not sure how I project Sweat next year. I think he's probably a 10-11 sack guy, but collecting a lot of cleanup or second effort sacks and not necessarily generating a million pressures. I also think he looks like he gained too much weight relative to his Mississippi State days. I do still like his potential against the run. 

 

Mostly, I think the strategy against our DL is going to be to try to pound the ball. If I were an opposing offensive coordinator, I would run, run, run and try to grind down the pass rushers. And I'd throw a lot of screens to slow down the pass rush. Quick passing game, obviously. I think even if we just modestly upgrade the secondary instead of signing a bunch or pro-bowlers, we will look better in coverage because that ball is going to come out. Richard Sherman was a different player this year compared to last. I am much less confident in our ability to consistently stop Elliott, Barkley, etc. I still think we need a rabid dog type MIKE than can stack and shed and fill holes and set the tone. 

Mcqueen, what are your thoughts about what we should expect from Sweat in years 2 and 3?

 

 

Also, I couldn't help but watch that clip and notice Delpit's poor angle and lack of elite speed. 

[skinny21]

51 minutes ago, volsmet said:

His pops played in the league, I always like that — but I haven’t seen much of him myself, I just remember him looking like a 12 year old when he was being recruited; the mighty Vols offered, so he’s probably a player. 🤔

 

Yeah, cool story about him and his dad - 

Torin Dorn was playing for a UNC team that had underperformed for some time, enter a young Mack Brown, who helped get the program back to relevance.  Fast forward 30 years... UNC hasn’t won a bowl in 7 years, and in comes Mack Brown. UNC beats NC State, goes on to win the Military Bowl and is relevant again.  
 

Anyway, he has some things I’d like to see cleaned up a bit, for example he’ll fly in on receiver screens and sometimes miss a diving shoestring tackle rather than slowing up last second.  I had a similar ’issue’ with Savage last year (who I was higher on than most last year).  But man, other times he shows really good form slipping by tackles and breaking down for TFLs - doesn’t get shook by jukes, etc easily.  

 

Kyle Dugger is another one that really intrigues me.  Talk about an freakin’ athlete - 6’2, 220, 4.4 40, 40” vert and damn near an 11’ broad jump.  Getting a lot of attention apparently, which is super impressive given he went to Lenoir-Rhyne (where?!).  Kudos to the Seahawks scout that ‘discovered’ him.  WF has him as the #3 safety.  Crazy town.  
 

 

Edit:  @JamesMadisonSkins - I’ve thought that same thing... though I’m guessing it will be Bradberry.  I would also look hard at Simmons and the Vikings safety. 

I also share @KDawgs feeling about our linebackers, so my enthusiasm will be tempered a bit.  
 

I’m a bit leery about going all in on FA though.  We have our oline to worry about, and re-signing some of our best players over the next 1-3 years (just in the next 2 - Dunbar, Payne, Allen, Anderson, Foster, Roullier, Guice, Settle, Sims, SDH, etc, and then you get into McLaurin, Sweat, Haskins, Io, etc in year 3).  

 

Re. Sherman looking rejuvenated with the Niners (and their front), while I agree of course, you also have to look at the poor PFF score for the guy across from him.  Point being, Moreau and Moreland may well not look like studs just because we add Chase Young/have a dominant front.  

[HTTRDynasty]

10 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Has anyone thought about how beastly our defense could be if we signed Byron Jones and Tre Boston/Jimmie Ward in Free Agency and drafted Chase Young?

[Anselmheifer]

14 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Has anyone thought about how beastly our defense could be if we signed Byron Jones and Tre Boston/Jimmie Ward in Free Agency and drafted Chase Young?

 

 

I'd sign Jones and Boston AND Bradberry. We need to be 3 deep at boundary corner. Especially since you can count on Dunbar to miss 4-5 games. I wish Apke would suddenly turn out. He's so fast and it would be such a steal to find a center field type guy in the middle rounds on a cheap contract. Little confidence in that happening though. 

[crabbypatty]

59 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I guess i keep thinking about his athleticism and thinking he's got more value coming from a side, while Payne / Ioannidis are wreaking havoc up the middle... and i'm constantly looking at our interior D-line with regards to passing situations.  I admittedly have not studied Allens game to act like i can argue whether he makes a better DE vs DT, so i'll defer to you all a good bit when that kind of a comparison is made.  Even if Allen is on the interior, the point remains, whether we add Simmons OR Young, it's a formidable front 7 that can be the focal point of our team.... if used correctly. 

As a 4-3 DT at the 3 tech over a guard, Allen will EAT. He's not fast like Donald, but he's polished and can win much more than he does currently. I love Allen, and he got stoned too much for my liking last year, I actually think Payne is the better athlete and natural pass rusher.. But Payne is also bigger and he will be asked to do the dirty work.

 

One thing is for sure, with the move to 4-3 there will be some interesting DL alignments with guys like Allen, Payne, Ion and Sweat/Young.

 

[KDawg]

 

Here's the current Skins' roster with players currently under contract. The Blue names are futures contracts.

 

Obviously there are some UFAs, RFAs that could return. But this is our roster. 

[crabbypatty]

23 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I'd sign Jones and Boston AND Bradberry. We need to be 3 deep at boundary corner. Especially since you can count on Dunbar to miss 4-5 games. I wish Apke would suddenly turn out. He's so fast and it would be such a steal to find a center field type guy in the middle rounds on a cheap contract. Little confidence in that happening though. 

One each of Ward/Boston and Jones/Bradberry.. and maybe bring Kendall home on a cheapish deal if feasible. That would be OUTSTANDING. You'd have a core lineup that looked like this:

 

Young, Ion, Settle, Allen, Payne, Sweat, Kerrigan (maybe)

Anderson, Holcomb/Foster JHC/Bostic/Draft pick

Dunbar/Moreau, Bradberry/Jones, Fuller/Moreland

Collins, Boston/Ward, Apke/Everett

 

That would be an absolute **** ton of talent on the field.. JDR would have his work cut out getting them all on the same page, but if they were?? Look out, offenses.

[volsmet]

On 10/7/2019 at 12:18 PM, volsmet said:

Kyle Dugger will be a favorite come March:

 

 

*January 

[Est.1974]

11 minutes ago, volsmet said:

*January 

He was on my list 

[Skinsinparadise]