2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, skinzplay said:

Tua's agent noted today that he'll have an extensive session in April before the draft to throw for teams. Let's say he balls out in those passing drills. Obviously he's not being chased or sacked while doing it, but what effect do you think it'll have on his draft position or any potential trade-up scenarios for certain other teams if he impresses during that exhibition just as he did while on the field on Saturdays?

None IMO. Teams will have already done enough due diligence on his current health. As you said, passing drills aren't close to the same as in game ability. Teams already know what kind of talent he has, it's a question of how teams feel about his durability.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

5 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

ILB: Holcomb

OLB:  Simmons / Hamilton or Foster

DE: Sweat / Allen rotating Kerrigan

DT: Payne / Ioannidis rotating Settle

 

or 

 

ILB: Holcomb

OLB: Foster / Hamilton

DE: Sweat / Allen rotating Kerrigan

DT: Payne / Ioannidis rotating Settle

 

Either way it can be a very powerful unit... 

The caveat on this example is that the Simmons option would likely need to include multiple draft picks via a trade down.

 

I have said this ... but if the Redskins sign Ngakue to a FA deal this off-season, my money is on the Skins trading from 2 to 5 and taking Simmons at 5.

 

Still think there's a 95% chance they take Young and I'm cool with that.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

20 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

 

We are going to be debating Young vs the trade back option for almost 4 months

 

4 ever more like 

[Est.1974]

@volsmet appreciate the response yesterday. Didn’t realise Jordyn Brooks was ranked that highly, was thinking top of the third for us. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Reading this makes me miss London Fletcher.  You can see it especially live, the dude would reposition players and be really active in getting players organized presnap.  

 

I recall Strahan talking about Antonio Pierce and what he meant to the team when he arrived in NY and he highlighted the presnap help.

 

Making this point here because it makes me wonder about cerebral type MLBs in the draft or FA.  Holcomb supposedly is a study hound but he was just a rookie last year and he seems to be on the quiet side. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/01/15/jack-del-rio-has-watched-redskins-defense-he-thinks-it-can-get-better/?utm_campaign=wp_sports&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

“That will be one of the big challenges and areas that has to improve,” he said of the communication problems. “All you have to do is watch the tape. When you’re watching the tape there are countless examples of right before the snap where players are not in a good position, knees bent, focus on the offense. They’re kind of turned to each other looking at each other like — questioning, you can see them asking each other like ‘what’s going on?’”

 

This is why he sounded so disgusted by the confusion the Redskins suffered as they got set last year.

“We don’t even have time to look for those clues if we don’t know what we’re doing to begin with so that urgency in that presnap portion of the game that’s huge to me,” Del Rio said. “That will be very important so we have a chance to know how we are being attacked, not just how we’re going to line up.”

 

[HTTRDynasty]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Making this point here because it makes me wonder about cerebral type MLBs in the draft 

 

The solution for that?

 

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

The solution for that?

 

The irony, I am watching him right now.  😀

[volsmet]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The irony, I am watching him right now.  😀

Irony or coincidence, a philosophical debate ... or a grammatical debate. 

[kingdaddy]

Through the draft or free agency, I think it's critical to get a solid running mate at safety for Landon....if we can do that I think the communication goes to another level. Remember when we had Sean Taylor and Ryan Clark? Let's get back to two formidable safeties....

[Skinsinparadise]

53 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Irony or coincidence, a philosophical debate ... or a grammatical debate. 

 

Coincidence would be the more apt word. 🤔

 

I really like what I've seen of Queen.  I cheated and only watched 2 games but that's all I can find.   What strikes me about him is he is a ball of energy.  He's got a lot of dog in him.  I posted two plays that showcase that.   

 

They move him around, MLB (both sides), OLB.  He also rushes from the A gap and the edge.   He has sideline to sideline range.  He tackles well in open field.  He looks fluid in coverage.  He looks like an outright really good athlete, fluid, quick hips.  He plays fast.

 

I say this on occasion about some non first round type players that grab me -- its hard for me to explain but some just seem to have something special about them when I watch that gives me the vibe that they are going to be good NFL players even if they aren't per se the more obvious stud prospects.  And sometimes I am even right about those players. 😀 Been wrong, too. 

 

I like this guy. I'd draft him.  i think its the dog in him that grabs me even in just two games.    If he's still there in the early third i'd be more than happy to grab him. 

 

As for the Redskins, he's a bit undersized to play OLB or maybe even MLB in obvious run downs though he's not bad against the run.    I think he's the type who can be used in nickel situations as a multi tool weapon.  He looks like a natural against the pass relatively speaking for a MLB.  And for a MLB he looks more comfortable than usual rushing the passer.  So in nickel you can have him back peddle or send him at the passer.  I noticed LSU had him rush multiple times in a row and then had him fake the rush to keep the QB guessing.  In that fashion, sort of like how Clemson uses Simmons at times. 

 

[Going Commando]

Look at my boy Sam Cosmi fighting for that fumble.  He's an animal.  That Texas vs LSU game was one of my favorites of the season.  A truly remarkable amount of NFL talent on the field at one time for an early September OOC match up.  It felt like a big time bowl game.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This is why he sounded so disgusted by the confusion the Redskins suffered as they got set last year.

“We don’t even have time to look for those clues if we don’t know what we’re doing to begin with so that urgency in that presnap portion of the game that’s huge to me,” Del Rio said. “That will be very important so we have a chance to know how we are being attacked, not just how we’re going to line up.”

 

 

Uh, does this remind anyone else of exactly what our former OC was talking about with Haskins?  He was getting to the line with 5 seconds left, checked to make sure people were there, but then didn't have enough time to read the defense pre-snap.

 

So our defense was going through a similar mess of a situation?

 

Jack Del Rio's other quotes about everyone having talent and sometimes talent doesn't matter are interesting.  If the talent can't line up in time, what does it matter?

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Trapasso, does the media rounds at times and some label him a draft geek.  Some of this is really funky compared to most. 

 

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Uh, does this remind anyone else of exactly what our former OC was talking about with Haskins?  He was getting to the line with 5 seconds left, checked to make sure people were there, but then didn't have enough time to read the defense pre-snap.

 

So our defense was going through a similar mess of a situation?

 

Jack Del Rio's other quotes about everyone having talent and sometimes talent doesn't matter are interesting.  If the talent can't line up in time, what does it matter?

 

 

 

At the games on occasion, and watching on coaches tape, you can see this here and there.  Players shifting at the last second and often not set in their spot but have to react anyway because the play happens before they are ready.  You can see the confusion at times with players looking at each other.

 

I noticed the quick game really burns this defense.  I bet this has a lot to do with it.   If they are confused with normal time -- the quick game I'd gather really has them spiraling. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

12 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Dan Orlovsky on Mike and Mike this morning was talking about what the Titans need to do to fool Mahomes this weekend, and when I couple what he said with what I've observed from the really good secondaries this year, like Green Bay's and San Francisco's and New England's, I think we really need to rethink the way we label safeties and corners.  The great secondaries are full of generalist DBs who are kind of separated by whether they are capable of credibly lining up in man coverage on receivers on the outside, or if they're credible box defenders.  I don't think there is room for a DB in a great secondary who can't do at least one of those two roles.

 

Orlovsky's point was that there is no hope for fooling Patrick Mahomes in an offense like Kansas City's where you tip your coverage pre-snap with the alignments of your DBs and LBs.  No one puts a corner on a running back or tight end split out wide unless they're playing zone, etc.  But what if your secondary is full of DBs who can play safety or corner?  Of guys like Delpit and McKinney?  That's what the Packers have, and it makes them very tough to decipher in the spread and motion era and you saw Russell Wilson, one of the smartest and greatest QBs in the league, fall behind early against them.

 

 

 

Multiple teams have won Super Bowls with one of their better defensive players being those versatile DB's.

 

Packers with Woodson in 2010.

Giants with Rolle in 2011.

Eagles with Jenkins in 2017.

 

Earl Thomas is capable of doing that, but usually wasn't with Seattle when they won.  It helps that Seattle had a bunch of elite cogs that couldn't fit in other assignments but functioned perfectly together.

 

I would love for us to have a DB like Rolle or Jenkins, etc.  But there aren't many.  Tyrann Mathieu is one, but I doubt he wanted to come to DC with Bruce Allen's dysfunction running amuck.  Budda Baker can be that guy.

 

Maybe with Rivera here, and Bruce gone, the more versatile players will want to come, feeling like they'd be used well.  Or maybe they'll want to wait.

 

If we're lucky, some teams will franchise other positions, so we'll have loads of DB's to choose from in Free Agency.

 

[Panninho]

8 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Through the draft or free agency, I think it's critical to get a solid running mate at safety for Landon....if we can do that I think the communication goes to another level. Remember when we had Sean Taylor and Ryan Clark? Let's get back to two formidable safeties....

 

Anyone has an idea where Antoine Winfield Jr. is supposed to go? Could be a great pick at the top of the third if he lasts that long.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

 

I would love for us to have a DB like Rolle or Jenkins, etc.  But there aren't many.  Tyrann Mathieu is one, but I doubt he wanted to come to DC with Bruce Allen's dysfunction running amuck.  Budda Baker can be that guy.

 

Maybe with Rivera here, and Bruce gone, the more versatile players will want to come, feeling like they'd be used well.  Or maybe they'll want to wait.

 

 

 

Supposedly according to some insiders they really liked Mathieu but liked Collins more last off season.   Jones has played some safety.  K. Fuller for the Chiefs is playing some safety.

 

Supposedly, Del Rio prefers to play single high (cover 1).  So more man coverage and less zone is likely coming. 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-the-50-best-available-nfl-free-agents-in-2020

29. S JIMMIE WARD

Ward has worn many hats in the 49ers’ secondary, but 2019 has been his best season by a longshot, as he ranked eighth among safeties with an 84.2 overall grade during the regular season. After playing slot corner, outside corner and every safety variation, Ward’s career year has came after spending 71% of his snapsat free safety, where he’s broken up eight passes and missed just three tackles on the year. Ward has been flying around the field this season, and he’s become a playmaker on the back end of the one of the best defenses in the league.

 

4. CB BYRON JONES

A move to cornerback rejuvenated Jones’ career in 2018, as he showed that he could play single coverage on the outside at a high level. He finished with the 14th-best coverage grade among corners in 2018 (80.4) before dropping to 21st in 2019 (74.8), but those are extremely valuable numbers as he hits the open market. Many will point to Jones not picking off a pass over the last two years, but his 74.1 coverage grade in single coverage is 11th-best during that time, and he has also shown the ability to match up against tight ends when called upon. Jones brings youth and coverage ability to the open market, making him the top defensive free agent heading into the offseason.

[KDawg]

My desire to have Simmons in burgundy and gold aside, we will likely have a real question about Tua or Young at 2. That debate will heat up in the coming months. I don’t think it’s as clear cut as many others do, but ultimately I think we wind up taking Young at 2. But I expect there to be a lot of chatter.

 

[crabbypatty]

22 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

I absolutely want guys who have some 'dog' in em.. and you reference leaders.  We have a 'dog' on defense that is already the leader.  Allen.  That guy refuses to lose, and he literally got the Bruce Smith style facemask because it's a tribute to those nasty d-lineman in history.  Landon Collins has that.  

 

When i see Simmons... i see a guy who can change the ability for the QB to do his job.  Young can possibly do that as well.  I LOVE Okudah, and if we draft him, i'm not going to be complaining, but if i'm looking at Simmons vs Okudah, i'm taking Simmons.  QBs will have to ALWAYS account where Simmons is.  Matchup advantages are the name of the game, and Simmons can negate A LOT of those.  He's big enough to cover a TE in man to man, and he's fast enough to stick with a WR. 

 

 

 

To be an LB and lead the team in TFL AND Pass Def... are you serious?   Converting to a 4-3, what is the BEST front 7 we could be looking at, and this is an honest question.

 

ILB: Holcomb

OLB:  Simmons / Hamilton or Foster

DE: Sweat / Allen rotating Kerrigan

DT: Payne / Ioannidis rotating Settle

 

or 

 

ILB: Holcomb

OLB: Foster / Hamilton

DE: Sweat / Allen rotating Kerrigan

DT: Payne / Ioannidis rotating Settle

 

 

Either way it can be a very powerful unit... 

 

Why do people keep wanting to stick Allen at DE? He was miscast there as a 3-4 de, would be even worse in a 4-3.

He needs to be at the 3 over a guard where he can use his strength/short area quicks and ability to dominate. He's not beating Tackles around the corner. But he can zip right past a guard's outside shoulder.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, crabbypatty said:

 

Why do people keep wanting to stick Allen at DE? He was miscast there as a 3-4 de, would be even worse in a 4-3.

He needs to be at the 3 over a guard where he can use his strength/short area quicks and ability to dominate. He's not beating Tackles around the corner. But he can zip right past a guard's outside shoulder.

I think end makes sense for him, when the OLBs are the DEs standing up. If that makes sense. More of a run down, 3 down linemen situation. 

[arftech]

44 minutes ago, KDawg said:

My desire to have Simmons in burgundy and gold aside, we will likely have a real question about Tua or Young at 2. That debate will heat up in the coming months. I don’t think it’s as clear cut as many others do, but ultimately I think we wind up taking Young at 2. But I expect there to be a lot of chatter.

 

 

If he knocks it out the park  when he's able to throw for the talent evaluators and has a great showing where do you think Tua will fall in the draft?  Top 3?  He could really shake up this draft.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, arftech said:

 

If he knocks it out the park  when he's able to throw for the talent evaluators and has a great showing where do you think Tua will fall in the draft?  Top 3?  He could really shake up this draft.

If he looks good when he works out being the caveat... I don’t see him falling out of the top 3. Detroit is sitting pretty at 3. They may be in the best position they could be in for this draft.

[Chump Bailey]

25 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

 

Why do people keep wanting to stick Allen at DE? He was miscast there as a 3-4 de, would be even worse in a 4-3.

He needs to be at the 3 over a guard where he can use his strength/short area quicks and ability to dominate. He's not beating Tackles around the corner. But he can zip right past a guard's outside shoulder.

 

I think moving him inside would be much worse. I think he will do well in Del Rio's 4-3 as a DE. I think Caleb Brantley would shine in the role you describe and not Allen.

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

I think moving him inside would be much worse. I think he will do well in Del Rio's 4-3 as a DE. I think Caleb Brantley would shine in the role you describe and not Allen.

He is a prototypical 3-technique and completely miscast as a full-time 4-3 DE.

 

And moving him out there really negates any need to draft Chase Young and creates more of a logjam at DE should we draft him. 
 

You get your talent on the field. You don’t have them sit on the bench. 
 

Allen at 3-tech, Payne at 1-tech with Ioannidis frequently spelling either/or is a recipe for success. 
 

Move Allen outside and we just crushed our DT depth and added an abundance of depth at DE.

 

Once in awhile? Sure. Fine. But he needs to be the primary 3-technique