Welcome to the Redskins Bryce Love RB Stanford

[RandyHolt]

I think our run blocking has been terrible. Our OL has no identity. We are still stuck in mixed mode from Shanahan's visit. We run zone and we run power and our players reflect that... in the end we do neither well.  I remember Jay day 1 at the podium asked if he would keep Mike's zone to which he replied "sure why not", or something like that.  Well, you know why not, because you are not a zone guy.

 

It took Adrian "Jump Cut" Peterson brought in, to make our run game a little bit more respectable.

 

OCKOCs unknown future play calling aside, all signs point to us being run game dependent this year.  If true I would like to see a run game OL built. I say ditch the fly weight mobile guys (Trent!?) and get the 5 best graders out there, and simplify the playbook.  Our passing game is going to suck with or without pass pro, even with the future great Cam Sims. So build for the run game, hope Guice Marshall CT and Love fully heal up, and lets roll.

 

Show run heavy early and often, and then go PAP on their ass. Classic - making your passing game out of nothing.  Our only hope for a dominating offense is to pass from run looks and obvious run situations, and vice versa, like Jay did late in 2015.  Or, you know, actually have an effective run game.

[Vanguard]

7 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

Squander the o-lines work? With all due respect, I kind of laughed out loud on that one.  Per Football Outsiders (not perfect but at least have some solid metrics), last year the Redskins were 26th in run blocking. In 2017 they were 21st. In 2016 they were 6th but that was an anomaly as 2015 they were 21st. Much of that was injuries but not all. This oline has not been good at run blocking for some time now. Pass blocking? Yes, they are decent. But run blocking? They are mostly ****. At one point late in the season they either led the league or were close to the top of RBs getting hit before the line of scrimmage. 

 

Jay and the coaches know something the fans either don't know or ignore, to be really successful you need to develop players. That means living through some bumps and bruises to get them to a better place. By all accounts Perine has worked his ass off to get stronger and faster. He had a nice mini-camp. If, and this is a big if, he continues then why shouldn't he get more touches? AP cannot handle a full load anymore. Love will be on PUP if not end up on IR (he was an investment in the future). Thompson will be injured at some point and Guice is an unknown - although if healthy I do see him getting the bulk of the touches. If you can develop a guy already in house why not? If he still shows fumble issues you cut him. That will show itself in TC and preseason. But in the meantime why not talk him up a little, at least publicly. 

 

I like the idea of him being a fullback type guy - show some 2 back sets with him and Thompson on passing downs and open the possibilities. 

 

The main point here is that Jay and the coaches are working to develop guys. If they can get production out of Perine why not. And in the meantime talking him up a bit may help you if someone has a RB need but it doesn't hurt you in any case. 

 

You kind of answered yourself by bringing up the fact that the offensive line was mostly hurt the whole year.  And just because the offensive line isn’t producing doesn’t mean they aren’t trying.  Maybe a few of them aren’t good enough.  But my belief is that it’s the scheme.

 

I recently watched Andrew Luck explain the Colts offense and why it’s so good in the red zone.  The plays that were drawn up were 90% scheme and 10% talent.  I asked myself, why don’t we do this stuff?  Andrew explained how simple it all really was.  In fact he said “keep it simple.”

[NickyJ]

56 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

I recently watched Andrew Luck explain the Colts offense and why it’s so good in the red zone.  The plays that were drawn up were 90% scheme and 10% talent.  I asked myself, why don’t we do this stuff?

I'd say we did run it all according to scheme and not talent. That's how we ended up with a 5'10" deep burner trying to catch fades at the back of the endzone, and a slow power back doing stretch runs on 4th and inches. Sometimes the scheme just straight up sucks.

[Fresh8686]

2 hours ago, Vanguard said:

 

You kind of answered yourself by bringing up the fact that the offensive line was mostly hurt the whole year.  And just because the offensive line isn’t producing doesn’t mean they aren’t trying.  Maybe a few of them aren’t good enough.  But my belief is that it’s the scheme.

 

I recently watched Andrew Luck explain the Colts offense and why it’s so good in the red zone.  The plays that were drawn up were 90% scheme and 10% talent.  I asked myself, why don’t we do this stuff?  Andrew explained how simple it all really was.  In fact he said “keep it simple.”

One cool thing, is we actually are taking a page from the Colts and running more pick plays in the red zone this off-season.

[goskins10]

4 hours ago, Vanguard said:

 

You kind of answered yourself by bringing up the fact that the offensive line was mostly hurt the whole year.  And just because the offensive line isn’t producing doesn’t mean they aren’t trying.  Maybe a few of them aren’t good enough.  But my belief is that it’s the scheme.

 

I recently watched Andrew Luck explain the Colts offense and why it’s so good in the red zone.  The plays that were drawn up were 90% scheme and 10% talent.  I asked myself, why don’t we do this stuff?  Andrew explained how simple it all really was.  In fact he said “keep it simple.”

 

So exactly what was answered? So OK, they worked hard. The result is the same the line was ****. It really does not matter if the lack of performance is due to injuries or not. The fact is the line was not good in run blocking. How exactly is that Perrine's fault? You said they squandered their good work. But they did not do good work. The cause is moot. The result is they did not do a good job run blocking. Even AP had trouble finding yards as the season went on. Is he a bad back? 

 

Not really seeing where you are going with comments from a QB on another team. I do not mean this to be a smart ass, just factual. Unless you have the Redskins playbook you have no idea if it's any different. So his comments really have no bearing here whatsoever.   

 

Just to be clear, I do not think Perrine is a good back. But I do not see an issue with Jay talking him up at this time of year. 

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, NickyJ said:

I'd say we did run it all according to scheme and not talent. That's how we ended up with a 5'10" deep burner trying to catch fades at the back of the endzone, and a slow power back doing stretch runs on 4th and inches. Sometimes the scheme just straight up sucks.

 

Thats not scheme, that’s game planning and play calling.

 

Pretty much everyone in the NFL runs the same ‘stuff’ - same concepts. Terminology and window dressing with motion and formation might be different but that’s about it. The difference is the talent executing the plays, the matchups. And the game planning and play calling to identify, create and exploit the matchups favorable to you.  

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

 

Thats not scheme, that’s game planning and play calling.

 

Pretty much everyone in the NFL runs the same ‘stuff’ - same concepts. Terminology and window dressing with motion and formation might be different but that’s about it. The difference is the talent executing the plays, the matchups. And the game planning and play calling to identify, create and exploit the matchups favorable to you.  

 

 

Something Gruden’s offense has always done well is get guys open based on scheme and matchups between the 20’s. 

 

For some reason, that hasn’t translated consistently in the red zone. Probably a combination of things, but the red zone offense wasn’t great (though it was better) in 2015 and 2016 when they had Garçon, DJax and crowder. 

 

Theres definitely a talent component to this, but I’ve always found the scheme/play calling especially at 1st and goal from the 7 and out to be iffy. Like they don’t know exactly what they want to do so they try a bunch of everything to see what sticks without really having a good sequence of plays to attack the defense. 

 

Personally, I’d love to see more spread formations down in the red zone to give guys a little more space and spread the defense, which is harder in compressed spaces.  I’d like to see what they could do spread woth CT in the backfield, 4 wide (Reed and David could be “WR” in that set) and even see if they could run out of that a bit. I’ve necer quite understood why they line up in power and try and jam the ball down people’s throats because they’re just not built to do that. 

 

Regardless, For some reason, I think this year might be different. 

[SkinsGuy]

6 hours ago, Vanguard said:

I recently watched Andrew Luck explain the Colts offense and why it’s so good in the red zone.  The plays that were drawn up were 90% scheme and 10% talent.  I asked myself, why don’t we do this stuff?  Andrew explained how simple it all really was.  In fact he said “keep it simple.”

 

Another reason they are so good in the red zone is because they have Andrew Luck.

 

[Vanguard]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

So exactly what was answered? So OK, they worked hard. The result is the same the line was ****. It really does not matter if the lack of performance is due to injuries or not. The fact is the line was not good in run blocking. How exactly is that Perrine's fault? You said they squandered their good work. But they did not do good work. The cause is moot. The result is they did not do a good job run blocking. Even AP had trouble finding yards as the season went on. Is he a bad back? 

 

Not really seeing where you are going with comments from a QB on another team. I do not mean this to be a smart ass, just factual. Unless you have the Redskins playbook you have no idea if it's any different. So his comments really have no bearing here whatsoever.   

 

Just to be clear, I do not think Perrine is a good back. But I do not see an issue with Jay talking him up at this time of year. 

 

Ok fine Jay can talk him up.  But I don’t need to see the playbook.  The evidence is on the field.  I’m bringing up Andrew Luck to compare the scoring ineptness of the Skins.  The colts didn’t do anything that we can’t do.  They have a better scheme and game plan.  They handled us last year as a matter of fact.  And I never said the lines work was good, I said “hard work.”

 

We both agree that it wasn’t good.

[Conn]

I find it weird that someone could think having Andrew Luck on their roster is somehow an insignificant part of the Colt's Redzone success, compared to us. A stud QB can make or break playcalling. 

 

note: I'm not arguing our playcalling, especially in the redzone, couldn't be improved. I've killed Gruden on this in the past. I just think you're kidding yourself, downplaying the role Luck plays in their success. 

[JaxJoe]

47 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

For some reason, that hasn’t translated consistently in the red zone. Probably a combination of things, but the red zone offense wasn’t great (though it was better) in 2015 and 2016 when they had Garçon, DJax and crowder. 

In my humble opinion, we haven’t had a QB able to throw a fade in the corners of the end zone in years. If we lack a QB to make throws in the corners, that takes away about 30% of your real-estate. Obviously, we need receivers who have some height and vertical and great hands. Hopefully Doctson and Sims and Harmon can contribute. Richardson and McLauren are more like crossing route runners down in the Red Zone. I honestly don’t know if Keenum can throw the fade but I know Haskins can.  Should be fun to watch.  I recall our Red Zone efficiency being really good in 2015 but dropped steeply in 2016 and continued to suck through 2018. But you’re right, yards between the 20’s is meaningless if you can’t punch it in. 

[NickyJ]

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

Thats not scheme, that’s game planning and play calling.

 

Pretty much everyone in the NFL runs the same ‘stuff’ - same concepts. Terminology and window dressing with motion and formation might be different but that’s about it. The difference is the talent executing the plays, the matchups. And the game planning and play calling to identify, create and exploit the matchups favorable to you.  

 

 

Game planning and play calling are all literally parts of a scheme. You gotta figure out which play calls work best with which players on the field, and how to use those players to their best abilities.  Where you put them, when you call the plays to put them there, and what you want them to do are all part of the scheme. If Gruden's decision to call an RB stretch with Robert Kelley on 4th and inches was picked at complete random and not because it was part of how his scheme deals with converting a 4th and inches, he's a worse coach than I thought lol

[Snagletooth]

16 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

I think our run blocking has been terrible. Our OL has no identity. We are still stuck in mixed mode from Shanahan's visit. We run zone and we run power and our players reflect that... in the end we do neither well.  I remember Jay day 1 at the podium asked if he would keep Mike's zone to which he replied "sure why not", or something like that.  Well, you know why not, because you are not a zone guy.

 

It took Adrian "Jump Cut" Peterson brought in, to make our run game a little bit more respectable.

 

OCKOCs unknown future play calling aside, all signs point to us being run game dependent this year.  If true I would like to see a run game OL built. I say ditch the fly weight mobile guys (Trent!?) and get the 5 best graders out there, and simplify the playbook.  Our passing game is going to suck with or without pass pro, even with the future great Cam Sims. So build for the run game, hope Guice Marshall CT and Love fully heal up, and lets roll.

 

Show run heavy early and often, and then go PAP on their ass. Classic - making your passing game out of nothing.  Our only hope for a dominating offense is to pass from run looks and obvious run situations, and vice versa, like Jay did late in 2015.  Or, you know, actually have an effective run game.

 

We scrapped the zone scheme against the Titans last year and ran pretty consistent. AP 26 carries for 119 yards.  At the time I wondered if it was a philosophical shift?  It appears to be more of a function of the patchwork OL signed off the street.

 

I'm going to be pissed if Gruden trots out Haskins and AP to run RPO.

[RandyHolt]

6 hours ago, Snagletooth said:

 

We scrapped the zone scheme against the Titans last year and ran pretty consistent. AP 26 carries for 119 yards.  At the time I wondered if it was a philosophical shift?  It appears to be more of a function of the patchwork OL signed off the street.

 

I'm going to be pissed if Gruden trots out Haskins and AP to run RPO.

I didn't know about the Titans game. I kind of wish someone would press Jay on it.  He said why scrap zone when he got here, but has been here long enough to do what he wants. Game tape aside, what is his preferred approach - I would bet its power.  The latest OL seem more power than zone led by Scherff of course, but our old anchor Trent is a zone guy. Maybe Trent is at the root of our OL lack of run game identity.  We couldn't and wouldn't even try sneaks for close to a decade. No power.

 

Some RBs make a career out of finding holes when none are there, while others were spoiled in college by running through wide open holes - like Perine. It seems all fans are down on Perine but he is a scheme guy and he runs from pistol which we don't sure.  So no pistol + no holes = his fault. It's not all his fault IMO but point being, if the scheme isn't getting it done, you need a top tier back that can jump cut and other stunts only the greats can do.  We have some on simmer in Guice and Love but I am not sure they are cut from the make something out of nothing mold to the level we will need with our mismash manic schizo OL.

 

Bah with the consistent injuries, maybe it doesn't matter what scheme our various OL are best at.  Jay is holding on for dear life and just needs bodies.

 

[MartinC]

8 hours ago, NickyJ said:

Game planning and play calling are all literally parts of a scheme. 

 

Could be semantics but ‘scheme’ is the offensive system. WCO, spread, Coryell, wishbone, run and shoot etc.

 

game planning and play calling are what you do within that scheme game by game, series by series and play by play.

 

And then you have situational football - short yardage, goal line, 3rd and 3-4, 2 minute etc etc which is whole conversation in itself.

[MartinC]

12 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

so they try a bunch of everything to see what sticks without really having a good sequence of plays to attack the defense. 

 

That's game planning and play calling largely (though last season we were so banged up and limited it was hard for any play caller to put together a game plan and call plays when your starting QB had only had about 3 practice sessions with the playbook and your O'line was decimated anyway).

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Bonez3]

Reminds me of LT

[evmiii]

Hope he gets 100% healthy, he's probably the best RB on our roster.

[Burgold]

I have heard some say that our oline run blocks fine, but our tight ends and receivers blow their assignments so often that it kills the run game. Last year, through the first half our run game was pretty good, but even then, it relied on AP making some ridiculous jump cuts and making guys miss. I think Scherrf was having an off year and the other guard was a weakness from game one, but I wonder how much of our running game woes really comes down to Davis and Reed.

[redskinss]

 not sure if its wind or just the assumption that he wont get caught but he definitely seems to pull up a lot at the end of his long runs.

Too many of his highlights show him getting caught when it looked like there was no chance of it happening. 

 

[Vanguard]

21 hours ago, evmiii said:

Hope he gets 100% healthy, he's probably the best RB on our roster.

 

🥶🥶

[NickyJ]

On 6/29/2019 at 9:58 PM, evmiii said:

Hope he gets 100% healthy, he's probably the best RB on our roster.

I agree, this 4th round pick is better than last year's second round pick and that guy who ran for 1,000 yards last season. Too bad we don't have someone like Adrian Peterson on our roster.

[desertbeagle85]

5 hours ago, NickyJ said:

I agree, this 4th round pick is better than last year's second round pick and that guy who ran for 1,000 yards last season. Too bad we don't have someone like Adrian Peterson on our roster.

 

1st off Guice will be the best back on the team not that Peterson guy. 2nd Love went in the 4th Rd because of his injury. So who knows what love could turn into if healthy. 

[goskins10]

On 6/29/2019 at 9:58 PM, evmiii said:

Hope he gets 100% healthy, he's probably the best RB on our roster.

 

So is there are any data to support this random hot take? Don't get me wrong, this is the right place for such takes. But am curious as to how you came to this conclusion. 

 

I like Love's potential also but to say he is "probably" our best back is a pretty strong statement.